Polyphony Digital May (Finally) Be Outsourcing 3D Modeling Work

[ScottPuss20]

I can see the argument that GT3 was the last fun Gran Turismo game,you can see from the Hud,GT3 is colorful and fun,GT4 is sterile and serious.I think some people got turned off by that,i don't agree i think GT4 is the highest the GT franchise achieved,GT5 is better than GT6 for me because GT6 felt like a "sorry we screwed up GT5",but the franchise went trough some dark times in the PS3 era.

This seems funny because to me, GT3 feels horribly dated compared to GT4.

 

[sirjim73]

Stop posting off topic please...!

If it was me choosing outsourcing of cars, I would outsource the upgrade of the PS3 premium cars as much as practical and utilise this extra time within PD to work on new models internally. PD can then try to "ensure" maximum quality on new models (easier to do internally) while overseeing the "upgrade" of returning cars from PS3 to ensure their standards are met.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

With lots of developers using outsourcing, and many teams that do it wanting to show off their skills, it shouldn't be that hard to cherry pick a few that clear the bar. We know they're out there. PD cannot have cornered the market in car/track modelers able to meet PD standards.

I'd imagine that the biggest challenge would be on boarding a development team onto PD's proprietary tools. Creating 3D models and importing them into a game is sort of a standardized process but actual development with the code is a different challenge altogether.

Another issue is that it can be challenging to find outsourced studios that do everything you want. I only work in eLearning where we make cheap little education games and finding a development studio that can develop sound educational material, good script writing, original art, quality production techniques, and contemporary interactive game design is a massive challenge. Even when I used to work at a major publisher their outsourced developers would fail a quarter of the time, with the internal publisher development studio having to fly in and hijack the assets to finish the game.

 

[Tornado]

After GT4? Do you mean after GT5P/GT5? Did you know something more than others back then?

GT4 is a fantastic game. Everything in that game I'd to the nth. They even allowed players to bring over Cr. from the prologue or GT3(?).

It probably seems rote after GT5's and especially GT6's problems on release, but GT4 got it's fair share of criticism after it was delayed for a year and a half, blowing through multiple release dates and windows under the stated reason to iron out the bugs in the online mode that was supposed to be one of the cornerstone parts of the game, before PD/Sony threw up their hands and released it without it anyway. Then the "online version" that was announced at the same time it was announced to be pulled from GT4 ended up being a Japan-only, invitation-only beta test for something that never came out.

 

[Auditore]

This seems funny because to me, GT3 feels horribly dated compared to GT4.

Oh yeah it is dated that orange font doesn't help,but at the time GT4 released,you could look at GT3 and see how colorful it was,the colors of cars popped,track signs were comically big then you look at GT4 and everything is serious and grey,again,i don't agree with this sentiment but i can see why someone would like GT3 more than GT4 because of it.

 

[TomBrady]

Maybe now they can outsource the p1 into the game

Yea man. Honestly, it's insane that the P1 still isn't in GT Sport. I could see if the McLaren brand wasn't in GT Sport, but it is so what's their excuse? Are they really gonna pretend like it's more important to add stupid Kei cars than one of the most famous and liked cars in recent years? Same with the 918 though I'm really not a fan of that car, it still makes no sense for it not to be in GT Sport. At least we have the LaFerrari though

Also, I'm dying for the McLaren Senna. It's the car I want the most in GT Sport. Would also love some Caterham fireblade, formula ford 1600, chrysler me 412, and Lotus 79. My top 5

 

[Sergio18]

PD is small? That's news to me.

I tried to say that they need more people to shorten their dev times,they take longer to create their games than the competition,i don't have a problem with it but it could hurt their dev time and affect the sales.

Polyphony has approximately 170 workers, that is very little compared not only with the competition, but also with the industry in general, an AAA is almost always done by teams of 300 workers and even 400.

Polyphony is definitely a small team, I think there is no discussion

 

[ImaRobot]

Polyphony has approximately 170 workers, that is very little compared not only with the competition, but also with the industry in general, an AAA is almost always done by teams of 300 workers and even 400.

Polyphony is definitely a small team, I think there is no discussion

https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-reflects-20-years-gran-turismo/

Yamauchi-san covers some of familiar ground. He explains that Polyphony Digital now comprises around 200 employees, and that every member is irreplaceable. “Each one of those 200 members does a job that only that individual can do,

That was even before the Venice, CA branch opened up. They're really not too far from the mark. In comparison, those big AAA games also get games out way faster as well, so for the time frame they work with it seems reasonably sized even compared to other AAA devs.

They are not small.

 

[Sergio18]

https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-reflects-20-years-gran-turismo/



That was even before the Venice, CA branch opened up. They're really not too far from the mark. In comparison, those big AAA games also get games out way faster as well, so for the time frame they work with it seems reasonably sized even compared to other AAA devs.

They are not small.

>>around <<In his page it leaves that they are 170, reason why we can infer that there are between 170 and 200 employees in Polyphony, to me they seem to me very few, mainly for the ambitions of PD

 

[ImaRobot]

>>around <<In his page it leaves that they are 170, reason why we can infer that there are between 170 and 200 employees in Polyphony, to me they seem to me very few, mainly for the ambitions of PD

It’s 200 at that time, it’s not around 170. It’s directly stated to be around 200, meaning it is likely more or less. Not “around” 170. Not only that, the Venice Branch opened up after that article was even listed so it’s over 200 at this point. If you want to ignore the facts you, to you, it can mean whatever you want then.

 

[Lee x sensai]

I just looking up the credit staff for the game to see who the main the people responsible for the car modeling for the game. Look like I found a lot interesting stuff.

And another one for staff done car modeling artist/car model technical artist.

Bonus who help the game development by testing driving it. You will might know some of them since because you see of the driver have race a bunch time in real life.

What I learn in credit so far they have bunch staff and but they don't have enough staff to focus on car modeling but they do have a lot staff for UI design and car physic simulation also car model artists to make sure the car look good. If you guy want to read the credits for the staff who contributed to the gamea and the interesting stuff at the end for special thank section. Here the link if you have time to read it. http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/gran-turismo-sport/credits

 

[BrunusCL82]

I just looking up the credit staff for the game to see who the main the people responsible for the car modeling for the game. Look like I found a lot interesting stuff.View attachment 758165
And another one for staff done car modeling artist/car model technical artist.View attachment 758166
Bonus who help the game development by testing driving it. You will might know some of them since because you see of the driver have race a bunch time in real life. View attachment 758167
What I learn in credit so far they have bunch staff and but they don't have enough staff to focus on car modeling but they do have a lot staff for UI design and car physic simulation also car model artists to make sure the car look good. If you guy want to read the credits for the staff who contributed to the gamea and the interesting stuff at the end for special thank section. Here the link if you have time to read it. http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/gran-turismo-sport/credits

How many people for design e creation of circuits?

 

[Auditore]

Polyphony has approximately 170 workers, that is very little compared not only with the competition, but also with the industry in general, an AAA is almost always done by teams of 300 workers and even 400.

Polyphony is definitely a small team, I think there is no discussion

They are a very big Indie Team and a very small AAA studio

 

[Lee x sensai]

How many people for design e creation of circuits?

It don't list there in credits but I know there People who help out the landscape design for the track. It think the closet it get for the people who helping out on the track.

 

[Sergio18]

It’s 200 at that time, it’s not around 170. It’s directly stated to be around 200, meaning it is likely more or less. Not “around” 170. Not only that, the Venice Branch opened up after that article was even listed so it’s over 200 at this point. If you want to ignore the facts you, to you, it can mean whatever you want then.

Well, it is also a fact that I told you because it is directly taken from the page of Polyphony ... But hey, it is still something modest for what they pretend. Greetings and try to be less aggressive

 

[ImaRobot]

Well, it is also a fact that I told you because it is directly taken from the page of Polyphony ... But hey, it is still something modest for what they pretend. Greetings and try to be less aggressive

Yeah and this is directly from the mans mouth himself How are you trying to argue that?

That’s large and far from modest. Modest would be something like the Devs from Asseto Corsa. This is a large Dev, plain and simple, hitting over 200 staff at this point. Specifically when we compare it to those in the racing Genre rather than the whole of gaming in general.

 

[Sojiira]

The article is awhile back, PD's webpage also displayed over 200 employees at one point. Now its at 170. Arguing about that is just dumb.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I just looking up the credit staff for the game to see who the main the people responsible for the car modeling for the game. Look like I found a lot interesting stuff.View attachment 758165
And another one for staff done car modeling artist/car model technical artist.View attachment 758166
Bonus who help the game development by testing driving it. You will might know some of them since because you see of the driver have race a bunch time in real life. View attachment 758167
What I learn in credit so far they have bunch staff and but they don't have enough staff to focus on car modeling but they do have a lot staff for UI design and car physic simulation also car model artists to make sure the car look good. If you guy want to read the credits for the staff who contributed to the gamea and the interesting stuff at the end for special thank section. Here the link if you have time to read it. http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/gran-turismo-sport/credits

Saw Takashi Ohi there on test driver, the legendary Best Motoring host/test driver and professional racing driver ( he likes Porsche and races Porsche too at Nurb 24H if I recall correctly ).I think he's been test driver with PD since GT4 if my memory served correctly. I really like his in depth knowledge on cars and road tests back in the 90's Best Motoring, love his review on F40 and RUF CTR Yellowbird and he drove them hard on the touge. Click the link for RUF CTR Best Motoring on my signature featuring Takashi Ohi himself driving the Ruf, including high speed braking, wet skidpad, and touge.

I still think PD needs more test drivers and their input should be more influential in the physics department, but I guess from what GT Sport has in terms of depth, the simulation aspect maybe very closely tied to the design choices ( the casual balance to cater bigger user base ) Imagining GTS with LFS physics maybe great for someone like me, but may not be great for sales number.

 

[Lee x sensai]

Saw Takashi Ohi there on test driver, the legendary Best Motoring host/test driver and professional racing driver ( he likes Porsche and races Porsche too at Nurb 24H if I recall correctly ).I think he's been test driver with PD since GT4 if my memory served correctly. I really like his in depth knowledge on cars and road tests back in the 90's Best Motoring, love his review on F40 and RUF CTR Yellowbird and he drove them hard on the touge. Click the link for RUF CTR Best Motoring on my signature featuring Takashi Ohi himself driving the Ruf, including high speed braking, wet skidpad, and touge.

I still think PD needs more test drivers and their input should be more influential in the physics department, but I guess from what GT Sport has in terms of depth, the simulation aspect maybe very closely tied to the design choices ( the casual balance to cater bigger user base ) Imagining GTS with LFS physics maybe great for someone like me, but may not be great for sales number.

i agree, they could make more in depth physic but it would turn some people off. For Takashi Ohi driving look like fun in the video.

 

[Auditore]

Saw Takashi Ohi there on test driver, the legendary Best Motoring host/test driver and professional racing driver ( he likes Porsche and races Porsche too at Nurb 24H if I recall correctly ).I think he's been test driver with PD since GT4 if my memory served correctly. I really like his in depth knowledge on cars and road tests back in the 90's Best Motoring, love his review on F40 and RUF CTR Yellowbird and he drove them hard on the touge. Click the link for RUF CTR Best Motoring on my signature featuring Takashi Ohi himself driving the Ruf, including high speed braking, wet skidpad, and touge.

I still think PD needs more test drivers and their input should be more influential in the physics department, but I guess from what GT Sport has in terms of depth, the simulation aspect maybe very closely tied to the design choices ( the casual balance to cater bigger user base ) Imagining GTS with LFS physics maybe great for someone like me, but may not be great for sales number.

PD walks a very thin line with every GT game they release,people want more realistic physics but the casuals that make up most of the fanbase don't want to crash at every corner so we get GT Sport,lots of casuals could say GT Sport is a hard game because it's a sim and at the other side hardcore sim racers laugh at the simulation in GT Sport,it's like trying to make a Dark Souls game easy for novice players and hardcore for good players it's madness.

i agree, they could make more in depth physic but it would turn some people off.

I think they are on the right track to find the perfect balance with the new tire model.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

PD walks a very thin line with every GT game they release,people want more realistic physics but the casuals that make up most of the fanbase don't want to crash at every corner so we get GT Sport,lots of casuals could say GT Sport is a hard game because it's a sim and at the other side hardcore sim racers laugh at the simulation in GT Sport,it's like trying to make a Dark Souls game easy for novice players and hardcore for good players it's madness.



I think they are on the right track to find the perfect balance with the new tire model.

I think the hard decision for PD lies on complexity of tuning and how much are being simulated, than actual driving/racing itself. More in-depth simulation done properly actually makes driving more intuitive, immersive and natural to someone who knows how to drive in reality.

For example, PD could do GT this way : PD can have a car simulated with high fidelity, every aspect is calculated with high accuracy ala PC sims, but the game can preset the values like tire pressure to be optimal, and you don't need to worry about changing it, ever - it's locked/blanked. For hardcore sim player, this can be seen as bad, as it gives the vibe of "arcade" flavor, but for casual this can be a blessing, as most of the player base in GT most likely have no idea how to properly set optimal tire pressure for every given track/car condition. Of course, PD can give option to unlock tire pressure adjustment, this is what I want to see in future GT.

The path PD took with simplified tuning right now I think needs improvement, it's too basic, but then again, more advanced tuning usually leads to alienating the casuals ( by casuals here, I refer to players which usually don't have much knowledge about cars/motorsport/tuning )

 

[Lee x sensai]

I think the hard decision for PD lies on complexity of tuning and how much are being simulated, than actual driving/racing itself. More in-depth simulation done properly actually makes driving more intuitive, immersive and natural to someone who knows how to drive in reality.

For example, PD could do GT this way : PD can have a car simulated with high fidelity, every aspect is calculated with high accuracy ala PC sims, but the game can preset the values like tire pressure to be optimal, and you don't need to worry about changing it, ever - it's locked/blanked. For hardcore sim player, this can be seen as bad, as it gives the vibe of "arcade" flavor, but for casual this can be a blessing, as most of the player base in GT most likely have no idea how to properly set optimal tire pressure for every given track/car condition. Of course, PD can give option to unlock tire pressure adjustment, this is what I want to see in future GT.

The path PD took with simplified tuning right now I think needs improvement, it's too basic, but then again, more advanced tuning usually leads to alienating the casuals ( by casuals here, I refer to players which usually don't have much knowledge about cars/motorsport/tuning )

I think the reason why tuning in sport mode is locked from away the player who like to tune. But It end up make some people un happy. I feel they could have done is created option both place for engineer player and driver to coexist by working together could lead to people share information how the car drive for certain track. It would balance out a lot thing. Lol

 

[Lee x sensai]

Deleted

 

[Auditore]

I think the hard decision for PD lies on complexity of tuning and how much are being simulated, than actual driving/racing itself. More in-depth simulation done properly actually makes driving more intuitive, immersive and natural to someone who knows how to drive in reality.

The path PD took with simplified tuning right now I think needs improvement, it's too basic, but then again, more advanced tuning usually leads to alienating the casuals ( by casuals here, I refer to players which usually don't have much knowledge about cars/motorsport/tuning )

It's funny because GT started as a franchise that took off because of casuals,everyone and their mother knew GT back at the PS1(it's the best selling PS1 game),most of people in the car industry nowadays started their love for cars on GT 1 or 2 and i always wondered if GT 1 would be sucessiful if it was a hardcore sim,kids back then thought that having to brake before entering a corner was the pinaccle of sim racing,i was one of them .

I actually think PD solved the problem of casual/sim years ago back on the PS1,Arcade Mode/Simulation Mode was perfect for both parts of the fanbase,i don't know why they abandoned it.

 

[Rustyhole]

I actually think PD solved the problem of casual/sim years ago back on the PS1,Arcade Mode/Simulation Mode was perfect for both parts of the fanbase,i don't know why they abandoned it.

Despite the names Sim/Arcade, I always mentally separated them as Career/Not Career and never understood why the physics were different until much later. I used to get annoyed in GT2 switching between the two after a long time spent with a particular track and feeling I had to relearn places.

I also thought a lot about how games like GT and Burnout were both thought of as having great handling but neither play anything like the other. Imagine GT with the handling of Burnout. It would suck, as would the opposite. But they're perfect for their respective games.

Not sure why GT abandoned the dual handling model, but it must be easier to fine-tune only one. Particularly with the size of today's games.

 

[Auditore]

Despite the names Sim/Arcade, I always mentally separated them as Career/Not Career and never understood why the physics were different until much later. I used to get annoyed in GT2 switching between the two after a long time spent with a particular track and feeling I had to relearn places.

I also thought a lot about how games like GT and Burnout were both thought of as having great handling but neither play anything like the other. Imagine GT with the handling of Burnout. It would suck, as would the opposite. But they're perfect for their respective games.

Not sure why GT abandoned the dual handling model, but it must be easier to fine-tune only one. Particularly with the size of today's games.

I don't think you need to do major changes to the arcade mode,just do what Forza always does,put all the assists on and when someone thinks the assists are holding them back on arcade mode they can start playing on sim mode(they can still put some assists on in sim mode if they want to)

 

[Tornado]

Polyphony has approximately 170 workers, that is very little compared not only with the competition,

Inserting the actual number that Kaz himself talked about here, Playground Games is about the same size. Turn 10's internal studio is somewhat smaller. Slightly Mad Studios is significantly smaller. Kunos is significantly smaller. Sector3 is significantly smaller. Ghost Games is significantly smaller.

but also with the industry in general, an AAA is almost always done by teams of 300 workers and even 400.

Sony Santa Monica is not that much bigger. Sucker Punch is smaller. Naughty Dog is right around the same size. Platinum Games is right around the same size. Sledgehammer Games is a little bit bigger. id Software is a little bit bigger. Machine Games is smaller.

Not every AAA game is developed by a massive outgrowth of several development studios conglomerating for a third party publisher to make sure a game can make release dates established before development even begins.

Polyphony is definitely a small team, I think there is no discussion

A 200-ish man development studio working on a single thing (which is not typically the case with the larger development studios you're talking about) for several years for a single platform with humongous piles of money and a leader on the parent company's board of directors isn't even in the time zone of being small even if other development studios are larger.

 

[Sergio18]

Inserting the actual number that Kaz himself talked about here, Playground Games is about the same size. Turn 10's internal studio is somewhat smaller. Slightly Mad Studios is significantly smaller. Kunos is significantly smaller. Sector3 is significantly smaller. Ghost Games is significantly smaller.


Sony Santa Monica is not that much bigger. Sucker Punch is smaller. Naughty Dog is right around the same size. Platinum Games is right around the same size. Sledgehammer Games is a little bit bigger. id Software is a little bit bigger. Machine Games is smaller.

Not every AAA game is developed by a massive outgrowth of several development studios conglomerating for a third party publisher to make sure a game can make release dates established before development even begins.


A 200-ish man development studio working on a single thing (which is not typically the case with the larger development studios you're talking about) for several years for a single platform with humongous piles of money and a leader on the parent company's board of directors isn't even in the time zone of being small even if other development studios are larger.

Well argued, Even though I had read the opposite, Turn10 had more than 300 workers, and in this case, the Forza do it both Turn10 and Playground, 2 teams plus external assistants

 

[GT6mebe]

I just looking up the credit staff for the game to see who the main the people responsible for the car modeling for the game. Look like I found a lot interesting stuff.View attachment 758165
And another one for staff done car modeling artist/car model technical artist.View attachment 758166
Bonus who help the game development by testing driving it. You will might know some of them since because you see of the driver have race a bunch time in real life. View attachment 758167
What I learn in credit so far they have bunch staff and but they don't have enough staff to focus on car modeling but they do have a lot staff for UI design and car physic simulation also car model artists to make sure the car look good. If you guy want to read the credits for the staff who contributed to the gamea and the interesting stuff at the end for special thank section. Here the link if you have time to read it. http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/gran-turismo-sport/credits

Counted a total of 64 car modellers. Assuming they can each individually work on a car (very doubtful) the max output PD can achieve is 128 cars a year.

This would all be in house so its not as slow as some think.

Imagining GTS with LFS physics maybe great for someone like me, but may not be great for sales number.

Not necessarily. The difficulty from GTS to some harder sims is not that big.
GT seems to also be introducing more options/assists so its not a total dream to expect better physics in the future.

Sony Santa Monica is not that much bigger. Sucker Punch is smaller. Naughty Dog is right around the same size.

SSM and ND outsource a lot, especially within SCE so while the number of people working there is similar the number of people working on their games is a lot more.

Platinum Games is right around the same size.

Platinum isn't even AAA.

A 200-ish man development studio working on a single thing (which is not typically the case with the larger development studios you're talking about) for several years for a single platform with humongous piles of money and a leader on the parent company's board of directors isn't even in the time zone of being small even if other development studios are larger.

PD is undoubtedly on the smaller side of AAA development however it still means they are one of the biggest in the racing genre. The racing genre has only a few big studios.

 

[queleuleu]

For a game which used to sell 10 million copies, the studio looks small. Poly keeps expanding: more studios, now outsourcing. So many projects in progress: Pikes Peak, probably Isle of Man, lots of legendary GT tracks expected for GT7... I'm happy to see things change at Poly.
(They just have to make the game fun again! More cars and tracks won't change the dull feeling for a casual player.)



April 2018?! More pics if you see it on IG.

teramoto_toyoReady for open our new studio!!