Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

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I wasn't core at all, I just saw the potential in PC franchise and PC3 is probably not for me either.

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I came back recently after PC3 to PC2 and it's so good on consoles. Hard to imagine it's from same developers. I would love improved PC2.
 
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What about returning back PC2 pad controls as an option for PC3? Maybe PC3 is not that bad but I can't play it with current "controls". Or is physics so different? I can feel many new helpers in 3 but if you disable it it could work fine.

How is PC3 on a wheel? Is OK, great, or bad? Before I bough it I checked videos and physics looked OK to me. I still think it's not bad but I can't test it properly.
 
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Wow, that's great! So what is better? I saw much worse performance, worse graphics, worse AI and less options for cruising. Currently I can't play it but with better controls I could dive into it.
 
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I agree that PC2 looks and performs better (Xbox One X), however, I'll try to describe my preference for PC3: In PC2, I get little feedback of what I'm doing wrong with a car, and the Race Engineer feature is somewhat limited on the corrections I can/should make. I am not into deep tuning, so I'm not going to move X component 0.XX to see If I gain 0.XX seconds advantage on a lap. And then I have to wait until the tyres are warm... but then for some reason the tyres do not warm evenly, so how do I correct? The game doesn't bother to tell you, and I should not have to study tyre theory to do that!

PC3 does away with that (although it retains tuning options) so I can get aboard any car, (whether is a street car, a supercar or a race car) and drive confidently on any track. And the game does try to teach you how to drive proper, so it's not a free pass: drive like a maniac and you will not get anywhere. Learn the tracks, the braking points, the racing lines, how to approach FWD, RWD, AWD, etc... and it's rewarding and fun.
I admit that PC3's optimization is ways to go, and yet, to me is more engaging that more polished or technical options, and it will be the standard with which I judge the next Forza, whenever it comes out (FM7 has long been uninstalled from my drive.)
 
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That's fine. I didn't have time for PC2 so I only bought it to support SMS. So I played it for very short time and I thought PC3 could better PC2. I am not long term PC players.

I have plenty of normal games with many helpers on a pad but few good simulations like AC1, ACC or PC2. Maybe that's the reason I don't see any improvements in PC3. I like pit stops, tires, fuel and other cool stuff. It's not in many games. It helps me to build racing atmosphere. PC2 was always awesome for it.

Do you play on a wheel? Because if you are confident, I can't imagine you play with the strange PC3 pad controls. But I think physics in PC3 is fine and you can't play it like a mad man. So I am still open to start to play it but PC2 really suprised me with great pad controls. I always read how bad it is but it's the same as AC just without FFB.
 

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@Johnnn -- You are in a minority if you think PCARS2's stick steering is good. I have argued many times that it is adequate and not as bad as some people make it out to be (as you have found!), but it lacks qualities for broader appeal. Personally, maintaining racing pace in some cars is literally a pain -- though others are so friendly by comparison it's like playing a completely different game...

As for what is better in PCARS3, in my opinion -- the analog stick steering is more comfortable, I can actually personalize my car and enjoy more cars in colors I prefer, there are upgrades to play with (beyond just tuning for maximum PIR for career/online racing), the new fantasy circuits are fun, and the career mode is...nominally more engaging.

PCARS2 is better for simulated details, an edge in physics over PCARS3, motorsports simulation, and options/adjustments on everything.
 
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Thanks for the input. That's true, cars are different. Some are very easy to drive and slide around corners, it's unbelievable easy. Because every game has so many assists and it's not necessary. I hate PC3 controls but I guess I am in even smaller minority. The controls are so bad for me I can't play the game. And I don't have any problem with assisted Forza controls. It's strange.

Tuning is good thing, but I don't use in any game too much. For instance, I love Horizon 4 but I use mostly stock cars. Forzavista and stock cars, that's what I love in Horizon the most 😁
 
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I agree that PC2 looks and performs better (Xbox One X), however, I'll try to describe my preference for PC3: In PC2, I get little feedback of what I'm doing wrong with a car, and the Race Engineer feature is somewhat limited on the corrections I can/should make. I am not into deep tuning, so I'm not going to move X component 0.XX to see If I gain 0.XX seconds advantage on a lap. And then I have to wait until the tyres are warm... but then for some reason the tyres do not warm evenly, so how do I correct? The game doesn't bother to tell you, and I should not have to study tyre theory to do that!

PC3 does away with that (although it retains tuning options) so I can get aboard any car, (whether is a street car, a supercar or a race car) and drive confidently on any track. And the game does try to teach you how to drive proper, so it's not a free pass: drive like a maniac and you will not get anywhere. Learn the tracks, the braking points, the racing lines, how to approach FWD, RWD, AWD, etc... and it's rewarding and fun.
I admit that PC3's optimization is ways to go, and yet, to me is more engaging that more polished or technical options, and it will be the standard with which I judge the next Forza, whenever it comes out (FM7 has long been uninstalled from my drive.)
This is a really good post because it is true that just because the game leans a little more toward arcade than PC2, you most certainly can't throw the car around anywhere you want and be rewarded.
 

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I hate PC3 controls but I guess I am in even smaller minority. The controls are so bad for me I can't play the game. And I don't have any problem with assisted Forza controls. It's strange.
I'm not 100% satisfied with it, but given the level of physics realism the steering is tasked with translating to an analog stick (as highlighted in @slthree's post above), I'd say PCARS3's implementation is better than most games across the genre, really. SMS deserves commending for it.

Of course, the problem is SMS's decision to hide any parameters to adjust the steering or choose options like you could in PCARS2. Right?

Regardless if it's all new code, surely there are variables that could be adjusted and features that could be disabled, like damping strength, an option for linear 1:1 axis control (some people like it), or the behavior that resembles the "Opposite Lock Help" available (optionally) in PCARS2. It's not too late for a patch, if we can expect anything like how PCARS2 evolved after launch.


My decision to purchase any DLC is kind of hanging on whether they patch in some options we used to have in PCARS2, from graphics effects, to the camera, to controls. That's my primary (realistic) expectation. :indiff:
 

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While we're onto pad implantation, has anyone tried the motion/tilt control option? (PS4)

I'm a wheel user but I had a go on the controller the other evening and set up the steering for motion control - and I was really quite impressed. It just needed a slight tweak to the (limited) settings. Turning the pad in a similar manner to a wheel seemed quite natural and gives you a greater range of motion than the sticks do. It works in PC2 as well
 
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I'm not 100% satisfied with it, but given the level of physics realism the steering is tasked with translating to an analog stick (as highlighted in @slthree's post above), I'd say PCARS3's implementation is better than most games across the genre, really. SMS deserves commending for it.

Of course, the problem is SMS's decision to hide any parameters to adjust the steering or choose options like you could in PCARS2. Right?

Regardless if it's all new code, surely there are variables that could be adjusted and features that could be disabled, like damping strength, an option for linear 1:1 axis control (some people like it), or the behavior that resembles the "Opposite Lock Help" available (optionally) in PCARS2. It's not too late for a patch, if we can expect anything like how PCARS2 evolved after launch.


My decision to purchase any DLC is kind of hanging on whether they patch in some options we used to have in PCARS2, from graphics effects, to the camera, to controls. That's my primary (realistic) expectation. :indiff:
That's what still bothers me. My controls on Xbox are among the worst game controls. I will test it again with next patch but I played it for about 20 hours and it was sooo bad. Strange thing is PC2 controls are awesome. So precise, so fast, so... awesome! You can really feel the car on your thumb, it's so good. Only AC can fight with it. Normal games like Forza are so boring then. Options from PC2 would be great for me but it's weird how anybody can like PC3 controls. It's not like PC2 or Forza.

I don't think there is much new. They added normal high stabilization like GTS has, friction assist for steering, counter helper and it's enough for very arcadey feeling. Physics could be great. There is a change to add options but Ian tweeted controls are good. I don't know.

I have a faith in next patches but it's always better to send money ahead ;)
 

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@Johnnn -- In PCARS2 I have Controller Damping ("stabilization") at 85, Speed Sensitivity ("friction assist") at 75, and Opposite Lock Help ("counter helper") enabled. All are necessary for how I expect the steering to work, and they're not enough.

I don't consider it "arcadey" for a game to make an effort to translate stick input, because steering a real car is not that challenging.

I use Controller Damping because I do not steer erratically and it is not hard to avoid doing so. I use Speed Sensitivity because I know better than to crank the wheel to full lock to navigate a corner at 100mph, and it is trivial to avoid that mistake with a wheel. Opposite Lock Help is nice because it is similar to self-aligning torque; having no countersteer help at all is unnecessarily difficult versus using a wheel. It's not that hard to catch countersteer without overcorrecting -- loosen your grip and SAT can take the lead:

That's just my perspective of what analog stick steering represents, though. I perceive it as giving commands to a virtual driver, not a direct input like triggers for the throttle and brake. However, I know others prefer to regard the stick as another direct input, which is why I wish we had the old options back, or something like them.
 
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@Johnnn -- In PCARS2 I have Controller Damping ("stabilization") at 85, Speed Sensitivity ("friction assist") at 75, and Opposite Lock Help ("counter helper") enabled. All are necessary for how I expect the steering to work, and they're not enough.

I don't consider it "arcadey" for a game to make an effort to translate stick input, because steering a real car is not that challenging.

I use Controller Damping because I do not steer erratically and it is not hard to avoid doing so. I use Speed Sensitivity because I know better than to crank the wheel to full lock to navigate a corner at 100mph, and it is trivial to avoid that mistake with a wheel. Opposite Lock Help is nice because it is similar to self-aligning torque; having no countersteer help at all is unnecessarily difficult versus using a wheel. It's not that hard to catch countersteer without overcorrecting -- loosen your grip and SAT can take the lead:

That's just my perspective of what analog stick steering represents, though. I perceive it as giving commands to a virtual driver, not a direct input like triggers for the throttle and brake. However, I know others prefer to regard the stick as another direct input, which is why I wish we had the old options back, or something like them.
We use different terms. Controller settings are rather filters. Helpers are different and do more stuff.

Friction assist was meant for normal steering angle helper for maximum grip on front wheels (I don't know the right name). You can't steer more than the grip. PC3 has it and probably PC2 too. You can't disable it in PC3 - not good.

Counter helper is usual counter... helper, so you can counter like crazy and it works. PC3 has it and I am not sure if PC2. You can't disable it in PC3 - not good.

Stabilization was normal stabilization management. The car is very stable even if you do nasty things to it. PC3 has, which could be arcadey feeling. PC2 maybe as an assist. You can't disable it in PC3 - not good.

Important thing is you don't need any of it to drive normally on a pad like you wrote. I just wanted the choice. For instance Forza Motorsport has only friction assist.

And my biggest problem with PC3 is the pad controls are broken. I can live with highly assisted controls like GTS for instance, but I can't use controls with big input lag. Does anybody here feel the lag for small corrections? If you don't use big correction, it's there all the time. I tested it again today.
 
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I didn't feel input lag at all, haven't felt it in a game for years.

Just making sure, you're using Game Mode on your TV and turned off all the post-processing features on it too? That's where input lag comes from in general.

Also, connecting controller via a wire helps, though wireless controllers are fairly lag-free these days.
 
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I didn't feel input lag at all, haven't felt it in a game for years.

Just making sure, you're using Game Mode on your TV and turned off all the post-processing features on it too? That's where input lag comes from in general.

Also, connecting controller via a wire helps, though wireless controllers are fairly lag-free these days.
That's the thing I am still open I could be wrong here. I use gaming monitors for everything, I hate input lag, so it should be OK. But I tested it and it's still there. Sometimes I try some crazy games like NFS 2016 and SLRE and I tried it recently and it has very similar bad controls. So it's not something completely off but normal racing games are too different.

When I steer, I use slight corrections like for AC or PC2 and it has input lag, so I steer a bit and in some time in the future it has different angle than before. It's not unplayable for cruising but it's annoying for good times. And I am very happy with PC2 controls with everything off so the problem is not in the engine.
 
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Wolfe

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I am sensitive to input latency and have a gaming monitor for my consoles, and I can't I notice latency behind the damping and steering logic. Tilting the stick only a bit may result in some unexpected steering motions, but the steering isn't necessarily designed for the fastidious playstyle that AC or PCARS2 require.
 
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I am sensitive to input latency and have a gaming monitor for my consoles, and I can't I notice latency behind the damping and steering logic. Tilting the stick only a bit may result in some unexpected steering motions, but the steering isn't necessarily designed for the fastidious playstyle that AC or PCARS2 require.
Exactly, it's different design which doesn't work for AC, PC2 style. Other games work with same style. I can't play NFS style because you can't use it in many games. If you don't steer correctly in Motorsport, you will lose your car very soon.

Strange thing is I have a friend with about one thousand hours in Motorsport 7 and he likes the PC3 controls. I am not sure how it is possible. Probably thousand hours is not enough 😁 That's a real mystery to me because you can't steer badly in Motorsport. You can in GTS, for instance, it's OK there, so people can switch easily. But he uses a chase cam and that's maybe so bad you don't know how you steer, don't know.
 
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IfAndOr

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Which view do you drive in @Johnnn? Maybe it's the field of view (FOV) that's giving you the impression of lag. Changing that can make a considerable difference to how you drive.

A narrow FOV gives a sense of faster steering a wider view give the impression of a slower response. I don't think the underlying inputs alters it's just what you see on screen changes.

Depending on what I'm doing I generally use either bonnet or interior views. Interior FOV you can change in the settings, but bonnet uses a narrower FOV than I'm used to in PC2 so I find it more twitchy. I often change it manually on the fly to my liking but unfortunately it doesn't stick and I have to tweak it each time.
I've noticed PC3 has the speed dependent FOV on permanently which can take a little adjusting to. When I change the FOV manually it seems to switch the speed dependency off.

*Also if you use helmet cam you have to take the look to apex into consideration. Until you're used to it that can screw with your steering inputs.*
 
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Which view do you drive in @Johnnn? Maybe it's the field of view (FOV) that's giving you the impression of lag. Changing that can make a considerable difference to how you drive.

A narrow FOV gives a sense of faster steering a wider view give the impression of a slower response. I don't think the underlying inputs alters it's just what you see on screen changes.

Depending on what I'm doing I generally use either bonnet or interior views. Interior FOV you can change in the settings, but bonnet uses a narrower FOV than I'm used to in PC2 so I find it more twitchy. I often change it manually on the fly to my liking but unfortunately it doesn't stick and I have to tweak it each time.
I've noticed PC3 has the speed dependent FOV on permanently which can take a little adjusting to. When I change the FOV manually it seems to switch the speed dependency off.

*Also if you use helmet cam you have to take the look to apex into consideration. Until you're used to it that can screw with your steering inputs.*
Mostly hood for racing and cockpit for cruising. The cam could be the difference for my friend.

I could describe it more but I did something and can fine tune details. It's about slight corrections. The game steer twice - some kind of input lag but not true input lag. Looks like broken design nobody sees 😁 I will test the FOV.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?69018-Controller-input-lag
 

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Mostly hood for racing and cockpit for cruising.
I'm much the same. The 2 views have different FOVs and "feel" different to each other. To make them similar you could try lowering the internal views via the graphic settings menu.

Or you could attach a keyboard and use all these options to increase the FOV of the hood view - or indeed move around any view to your liking.
project cars how to adjust view ps4.jpeg

Pressing ctrl k a couple of times resets things.
 
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Wolfe

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OK, I finally get it. I was thinking why bad players I know like it. So I tried to steer like a complete beginner, using full-locks (no steer or full steer) and then finally it started to makes sense. The game steers for you and speed is OK because full-lock is fast enough. This kind of steering is normal in games like Need for speed so it wasn't my fault I didn't use it. It rather feels like keyboard helper for steering.

So you were right the game is OK for complete beginners and I was right the game is unplayable for very precise players.

At least we finally found it...
C'mon, man. 😂 Well, you had already figured out the answer yourself last week.

Using broad strokes of the analog stick is not a "beginner" thing. Like you said, it is a normal playstyle in other racing games like Need for Speed -- and Forza, Gran Turismo, Dirt, Wreckfest, WRC, Enthusia...the list goes on and on and on. Damping and steering angle limits are the norm, not the exception.
 
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I'm much the same. The 2 views have different FOVs and "feel" different to each other. To make them similar you could try lowering the internal views via the graphic settings menu.

Or you could attach a keyboard and use all these options to increase the FOV of the hood view - or indeed move around any view to your liking.
View attachment 980361
Pressing ctrl k a couple of times resets things.
OK, I will test it ;)

C'mon, man. 😂 Well, you had already figured out the answer yourself last week.

Using broad strokes of the analog stick is not a "beginner" thing. Like you said, it is a normal playstyle in other racing games like Need for Speed -- and Forza, Gran Turismo, Dirt, Wreckfest, WRC, Enthusia...the list goes on and on and on. Damping and steering angle limits are the norm, not the exception.
No 😁 It's undergoing research. I am still not sure If I was right because I am not pad pro like many others here and there. It made sense after I tried to steer like crazy, it worked.

But If you think most of the people use helpers and then they can't see it? Because you can't use it in Forza with everything off because you would lose your rear end a lot. It's a bit strange there but I guess Forza guards your max front grip and then it could be possible to lose your end. But I am not able to reproduce it in PC2 for instance... but I can't see max grip. Maybe Forza uses some helper magic so it's not real. It will be my next research 😁
 
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Oh, I got what you meant. It's definitely possible in Motorsport to use 3 full-locks instead of one smooth move. It's so different from "normal" style I completely forgot about it. OK, then it's possible.