RACE ITCC 4 - Congratulations to champions! Unofficial final points - Post #3411Finished 

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Required? I think I said optional....


I'll get the Ford sorted out for you. :)


2:17s is still faster than I can do in Honda, though, so....
 
Update: @gtpcaine and @Dano20, there is a rules provision which affects both of you.

There is now an official "footnote" on the car's specs which explains that all Ford drivers must use the same aero package (on a weekly basis, for clarification, as it may be altered from week to week) as deemed fit.

Since you already share setup details, I trust you can also include whether or not you plan on using the flat floor or not, for the slight handling advantage, or for the increased top speed.



I also recommend that everyone lowers the rear downforce a touch, if necessary/comfortable, in order to obtain a slightly higher top speed at Mt. Panorama. This has shown to make a huge difference in speeds coming down the mountain again, towards the Chase.


So, to summarize: Ford drivers can now officially use or remove the flat floors, if desired. All drivers must officially have the rear aero on their car, and all standard model cars must use any of the "generic" type wings. Downforce - as you already know - can and should be adjusted on these rear wings, to enable for a higher top speed or for more cornering stability, depending on driver preference, setup, and track.


:)


cnd01
Specs may need a look if the cars are than uneven
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They're not uneven. I thought I had clarified that the Fords can run with flat floors at cornering-oriented tracks, and without at faster tracks, but I obviously hadn't clarified that. In testing, I played with the Ford's aero devices, and I agreed with myself that it was faster in corners, but slower on straights, with the flat-floors.

@LancerEvo7, looks has nothing to do with it. If someone wants to have that rear downforce, I don't want them to be at a huge disadvantage for having it. This series is about equalizing cars until drivers are the only difference.
 
ITCC_Andrew
Update: @gtpcaine and @dano89, there is a rules provision which affects both of you.

There is now an official "footnote" on the car's specs which explains that all Ford drivers must use the same aero package (on a weekly basis, for clarification, as it may be altered from week to week) as deemed fit.

Since you already share setup details, I trust you can also include whether or not you plan on using the flat floor or not, for the slight handling advantage, or for the increased top speed.



I also recommend that everyone lowers the rear downforce a touch, if necessary/comfortable, in order to obtain a slightly higher top speed at Mt. Panorama. This has shown to make a huge difference in speeds coming down the mountain again, towards the Chase.


So, to summarize: Ford drivers can now officially use or remove the flat floors, if desired. All drivers must officially have the rear aero on their car, and all standard model cars must use any of the "generic" type wings. Downforce - as you already know - can and should be adjusted on these rear wings, to enable for a higher top speed or for more cornering stability, depending on driver preference, setup, and track.


:)
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Can we scrap all the aero for next season. Using cars roughly 10 years old with aftermarket aero makes it the ITCC-Ricer extravaganza. The aesthetics of all these cars are ruined with the ricer wings and dive planes.
 
cnd01
Can we scrap all the aero for next season. Using cars roughly 10 years old with aftermarket aero makes it the ITCC-Ricer extravaganza. The aesthetics of all these cars are ruined with the ricer wings and dive planes.
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Ummm, no. ITCC V cars and car lists have not been finalized yet, but - upon finalization - more details about aero packages will also be released.


Yes, yes I did just mention a fifth season. ;)


As for the argument of yes/no to aero, I think it fits the BMW, Audi, Volvo, Ford, Alfa and Honda quite well. The SEAT looks ridiculous with it, but the rear wing is on it for the competition's sakes, not for the appearance.

We're using 2006 cars because it's a 2006 WTCC "tribute" series.

Edit: race cars aren't supposed to be pretty. DPs aren't pretty (most people say so, although I disagree), but they're still awesome.
 
ITCC_Andrew
Ummm, no. ITCC V cars and car lists have not been finalized yet, but - upon finalization - more details about aero packages will also be released.


Yes, yes I did just mention a fifth season. ;)


As for the argument of yes/no to aero, I think it fits the BMW, Audi, Volvo, Ford, Alfa and Honda quite well. The SEAT looks ridiculous with it, but the rear wing is on it for the competition's sakes, not for the appearance.

We're using 2006 cars because it's a 2006 WTCC "tribute" series.
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ITCC
 
Flared wheel arches? Never!
License plates? Never!
Wings? Yes, they're race cars.
 
Well... They have license plates. Personally, they look out of place without the wing.
 
I might actually consider a Pirelli World Challenge B-Spec series. If I ran that, there would be no downforce available on any cars.


This, though, is the World Touring Car Championship with British Touring Car Championship close-racing and VLN/Canadian Touring Car Championship tracks.


That's what it's always been - a "hybrid" or "what-if" series of the best of touring car racing.


VLN, BTCC, WTCC, and CTCC all use aero devices. :)
 
ITCC_Andrew
Flared wheel arches? Never!
License plates? Never!
Wings? Yes, they're race cars.
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So this isn't a race car?
2006FOS_1970Porsche917L.jpg


or this?
2012-Nissan-DeltaWing-Le-Mans-Race-Car-Rear-Angle.jpg


Or even this

12128207566_71508b6d89_m.jpg


This is the mindset I see

big-wing-BC-RACECAR.jpg
 
cnd01
So this isn't a race car?
2006FOS_1970Porsche917L.jpg


or this?
2012-Nissan-DeltaWing-Le-Mans-Race-Car-Rear-Angle.jpg


Or even this

12128207566_71508b6d89_m.jpg


This is the mindset I see

big-wing-BC-RACECAR.jpg
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The 1st and 3rd ones have a lip, or spoiler, technically a wing. The deltawing... Well it's the delta wing... Doesn't really count, but the "fin" is a rear aero mod, so that counts.
 
Ummm, the Aston Martin doesn't have aerodynamic devices because it isn't allowed by Grand-Am rules.

The middle race car picture isn't showing up...

And the top one (Porsche? I don't know or care about old or new LM cars) is running a rear wing, and is also streamlined for racing at Le Mans... With those famously long straightaways.
 
Can someone link me the points tables can't seem to find them :)
 
nascarfan1400
The 1st and 3rd ones have a lip, or spoiler, technically a wing. The deltawing... Well it's the delta wing... Doesn't really count, but the "fin" is a rear aero mod, so that counts.
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Since you know a lot about NASCAR, which one of these has a wing and which one is a spoiler? Big difference between the two.

4-nascar.jpg



cot.jpg


ITCC_Andrew
Ummm, the Aston Martin doesn't have aerodynamic devices because it isn't allowed by Grand-Am rules.

The middle race car picture isn't showing up...

And the top one (Porsche? I don't know or care about old or new LM cars) is running a rear wing, and is also streamlined for racing at Le Mans... With those famously long straightaways.
Click to expand...
So Grand am rules make that AM not a race car? Funny that middle pic doesn't show up for you... :p

I'll bet the Porsche 917 could turn better than any 2005 street car with a ricer wing
 
Spoilers and wings both alter. The top picture (COY) gave us more speed and balanced handling.

The bottom (Crap of Tomorrow) had still high speed in straight lines, and better grip. Granted the racing was as boring as watching paint dry sometimes...
 
Personally I think the Focus looks the nuts with the aero. And the term 'ricer' means all looks no go. With 295bhp you can hardly call that no go. I personally am glad we have aero on these cars. Especially the FF's. It means your setup is crutial for decent lap times. An area where I feel I am quite good at.

@ITCC_Andrew -- Thanks for clarifying. Will do some running tomorrow without the flat floor and let you know my findings.
 
nascarfan1400
Spoilers and wings both alter. The top picture (COY) gave us more speed and balanced handling.

The bottom (Crap of Tomorrow) had still high speed in straight lines, and better grip. Granted the racing was as boring as watching paint dry sometimes...
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But both are race cars. One has a wing; the other one doesn't.

Wings are unnecessary for a 2006 beater Honda, a 4 door BMW sedan, a hatchback Focus, etc.

These cars were not designed to have huge wings. Throws off the natural balance of the car. It makes tire wear worse for the FF cars by making it harder to get rid of the understeer.
 
GT6 spoilers are ugly as hell imo. If they were around 33% to 50% smaller they'd look acceptable. But they just look tacky.

This is how a spoiler should be on a touring car.

John_Cleland_1998_BTCC.jpg


@cnd01 wings like this would be brilliant on GT6.
 
Furinkazen
GT6 spoilers are ugly as hell imo. If they were around 33% to 50% smaller they'd look acceptable. But they just look tacky.

This is how a spoiler should be on a touring car.

John_Cleland_1998_BTCC.jpg


@cnd01 wings like this would be brilliant on GT6.
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In that case, I agree. That's a proper wing for a touring car. The ricer wings on gt6 aren't fitting for the cars
 
cnd01
It makes tire wear worse for the FF cars by making it harder to get rid of the understeer.
Click to expand...

Seriously....tyre wear in 14 laps races on RH's? You're doing something wrong if the tyres are affecting lap times.

btcc04.jpg

320px-Gordon_Shedden_2006_BTCC_Oulton_Park.jpg

Two touring cars with 'ricer' wings.
 
gtpcaine
Seriously....tyre wear in 14 laps races on RH's? You're doing something wrong if the tyres are affecting lap times.

btcc04.jpg

320px-Gordon_Shedden_2006_BTCC_Oulton_Park.jpg

Two touring cars with 'ricer' wings.
Click to expand...


The cars don't look as silly as a GT6 road model without bodykits and are also still less subtle. It's an issue with GT6 as a whole.
 
Guys, come on. Stop ranting about GT6's shortcomings. If there were smaller wings, yes, we would use them.


@Dano20, the link for points will always be the second line in OP for this season. 👍
 
ITCC_Andrew
@LancerEvo7, looks has nothing to do with it. If someone wants to have that rear downforce, I don't want them to be at a huge disadvantage for having it. This series is about equalizing cars until drivers are the only difference.
Click to expand...
Then everyone not in a Ford is at a disadvantage because they don't have the option of running a flat floor.
 
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