RACE ITCC 4 - Congratulations to champions! Unofficial final points - Post #3411Finished 

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If the stewarding were unjust, you would be long gone... Your connection is a bit of a PITA, but, since we enjoy racing, and you continue to display a positive attitude (đź’ˇ) we continue to accept you as our friend.


Please stop tossing around "the stewarding is unjust" without giving an example or any proof of how or when or where. If you think that, prove it. We'll gladly point out the flaws.


I've been doing stewarding for 4 seasons, and last season was our cleanest yet. My stewarding is getting better. If you have a problem with it, you should certainly understand that the results of Battle at the Beach could also have been different with different viewpoints on stewarding, but since you ran it, you chose to go with the "it's the last lap, it's a NASCAR track and it's..." Approach. I take the "OLRs say this, FIA says that, ASN Canada FIA rulebook says this, and I will not allow this" approach.


If you don't like it, ToCA runs at the same timeslot, but they will not be as friendly about your connection stability.
 
ITCC_Andrew
If the stewarding were unjust, you would be long gone... Your connection is a bit of a PITA, but, since we enjoy racing, and you continue to display a positive attitude (đź’ˇ) we continue to accept you as our friend.


Please stop tossing around "the stewarding is unjust" without giving an example or any proof of how or when or where. If you think that, prove it. We'll gladly point out the flaws.


I've been doing stewarding for 4 seasons, and last season was our cleanest yet. My stewarding is getting better. If you have a problem with it, you should certainly understand that the results of Battle at the Beach could also have been different with different viewpoints on stewarding, but since you ran it, you chose to go with the "it's the last lap, it's a NASCAR track and it's..." Approach. I take the "OLRs say this, FIA says that, ASN Canada FIA rulebook says this, and I will not allow this" approach.


If you don't like it, ToCA runs at the same timeslot, but they will not be as friendly about your connection stability.
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Don't flatter yourself :rolleyes:

I've actually had a word with the guys at TOCA, and upon even mentioning my joining, as part time, they have given me a warm welcome.

And at BATB I actually took others advice, there were 4 or 5 of us chipping in and we finally concluded it was legal.
 
So because they have bad connection you can't tolerate them unless they have a positive attitude :confused:.
 
No, but it would go a lot smoother if I didn't have a guy pushing people into walls, trying to run the show from the sidelines, and causing connection issues.


I bend over backwards so that nas can race, and this is how he pays me back. I could stop bending over backwards and just kick you out for shoving Siggers around as much as you did.

Or, we can penalize you to show everyone that we're serious about driving conduct, and to teach you better, and move on.


Your choice, nas.
 
ITCC_Andrew
No, but it would go a lot smoother if I didn't have a guy pushing people into walls, trying to run the show from the sidelines, and causing connection issues.


I bend over backwards so that nas can race, and this is how he pays me back. I could stop bending over backwards and just kick you out for shoving Siggers around as much as you did.

Or, we can penalize you to show everyone that we're serious about driving conduct, and to teach you better, and move on.


Your choice, nas.
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This is just funny now...
Your internet is awful. At this point worse than mine.
Nobody can see you, it's so bad that Caine has to host. Who said I'm running from the sidelines?! All these involve me so using that analogy, I'm on the field.

I can't simply appeal an issue without you starting a war. If it's war you want it's war you get.

We can go on and both get GTP Vacations, or call it truce, and leave the appeal to others opinions.

Your choice, Mel.
 
God I love being right. I knew there would be a poo storm after this one

I think it would be good to see some people who aren't regular competitors steward this series and tighten down. I can help in any way you need me to. I'd really compete more if I thought the stewarding would be unbiased. Bringing in @LancerEvo7 is a solid idea. I'll make more of an effort to make races now.
 
In Bathurst it is very unlikely that everyone will come out uncrashed (take it from an Australian that watches the Bathurst 1000 every year) and tbh, the chances are slimmer here (your series isn't the most cleanest in the world :indiff:).

It is just a typical day at Bathurst, lets move on.
 
TheYaShoe
wat? he has like just a bit less of a connection than mine and i have 9 up and 27 down i believe.
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You haven't raced with him recently, I don't think?

He got new internet, and it's not good. He can't see half the drivers in the room, sadly, and his rooms produce one bar, while I can get 3 off of Caine, and I'm closer to Mel...
 
RESHIRAM5
In Bathurst it is very unlikely that everyone will come out uncrashed (take it from an Australian that watches the Bathurst 1000 every year) and tbh, the chances are slimmer here (your series isn't the most cleanest in the world :indiff:).

It is just a typical day at Bathurst, lets move on.
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There's still the question of do I deserve points deduction?

Yes or No
(Voting time)
 
I say, No.
 
TheYaShoe
wat? he has like just a bit less of a connection than mine and i have 9 up and 27 down i believe.
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I have 65 mbps download. Nas is just lying to cover his own tail.


I'm enstating @gtpcaine, @LancerEvo7, and @cnd01 to join the stewards, and - if anyone dare post publicly - I may enact the rules about not posting about conduct in the thread until a finalized decision has been made... Because I've said my piece, assigned the penalties, and done my research... I'm done with this for now. Points will be done shortly, because I'm going with things how I say until the absolutely final decision is made.
 
nascarfan1400
There's still the question of do I deserve points deduction?

Yes or No
(Voting time)
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Having watched the video it was an overreaction on your part. However, you hardly took him out, and no-one lost any positions, so I probably wouldn't have given a penalty.
 
Then what is that crash at USCC about, I fought you said it was lag.
 
ITCC_Andrew
I have 65 mbps download. Nas is just lying to cover his own tail.


I'm enstating @gtpcaine, @LancerEvo7, and @cnd01 to join the stewards, and - if anyone dare post publicly - I may enact the rules about not posting about conduct in the thread until a finalized decision has been made... Because I've said my piece, assigned the penalties, and done my research... I'm done with this for now. Points will be done shortly, because I'm going with things how I say until the absolutely final decision is made.
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I say let the democracy vote. After all, it gives more insight.

Yes: 0 , No: 2
 
nascarfan1400
I say let the democracy vote. After all, it gives more insight.

Yes: 0 , No: 2
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I think that unbiased stewarding is the way to go. No one who was involved in the melee should vote because of the obvious bias of being involved in the situation. That goes for everyone. If I get involved in something, even though I'm a steward, I shouldn't be allowed to have an influence in the penalty as it's unfair for the people enforcing the rules to have immunity. That will take some of the burden off of Andrew, and it will help the series become more consistent and enjoyable in the long run
 
cnd01
I think that unbiased stewarding is the way to go. No one who was involved in the melee should vote because of the obvious bias of being involved in the situation. That goes for everyone. If I get involved in something, even though I'm a steward, I shouldn't be allowed to have an influence in the penalty as it's unfair for the people enforcing the rules to have immunity. That will take some of the burden off of Andrew, and it will help the series become more consistent and enjoyable in the long run
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Gkm and Reshi both weren't racing, so their opinion is as valid as yours.
 
gokartman78
Having watched the video it was an overreaction on your part. However, you hardly took him out, and no-one lost any positions, so I probably wouldn't have given a penalty.
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Siggers lost the position.
 
Update: I need to know where BW finished in Race 1 to finalize points.

gokartman78
He shouldn't have had the position, he didn't let nas back through after a divebomb with pushed nas out of the way.
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He actually let off of the throttle to allow nas to get ahead. Nas pushed him into the wall instead of retaking the position.


Video:



If Nas had re-taken the position without contact, Siggers might've gotten the penalty (But probably not because Siggers lifted off of the throttle to let nas back in line). Instead, Siggers gets a warning and Nas gets the penalty.
 
gtpcaine
This is my opinion on the incident:
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Is this the incident that everyone is calling a "divebomb"?

Under GTPOLR there is no such thing as a divebomb but a legal pass is defined:

You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner's turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver's position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.
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To me it looks close enough that for the sake of a clean race and respect for your fellow driver, room should be given to the inside driver as laid out here:

If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.
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This and various other paragraphs like it would also apply:

No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect.
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EDIT:

This is the point in the replay from the view given that it appears the car on the left begins to turn in or a split second before. Is there enough overlap?

Windsor-20140216-01863.jpg
 
Points updates as they come:


Caine: 93 points
BW: 81 points (well done!)
buck: 64 points
MrM: 64 points
Siggers: 62 points
Ciro: 62 points
ettick: 56 points
nas: 66 points (pre-penalty,) 32 points (post-penalty)

@Gedi69 doesn't know what he's talking about, and has only used 1 drop round according to my master sheets. :) What a sleepy goofball.

@GTracer98 and @Turbo_snail are still leading Team's championship, although FPR, T&TR and RRRT are still in extremely close contention.

@gtpcaine: 311 points
@ITCC_Andrew: 277 points
@Turbo_snail: 261 points
@Siggers: 258 points
@GTracer98: 254 points
@buck1: 239 points
@Gedi69: 184 points (-1 round)
@nascarfan1400: 150 points (post penalty), 184 points (before penalty) (-1 round)
@Dano20: 142 points (-2 rounds)
@RoadHawk: 96 points (-2 rounds)
@cnd01: 58 points (-3 rounds)
@Ettick: 56 points (-3 rounds)
@rallymorten: 54 points (-3 rounds)
@AonsoFan46: 46 points (-3 rounds)

As you can tell, the best thing to do is to race clean and avoid penalties, as buck, BW, Ciro, Caine and I are doing. That's the best way to score good points. It's a shame that I had a PS3 freeze in Race 2, because those points are so crucial for the hunt with Caine.




And, I may just have a trick up my sleeve for points near the end of the season. ;) You're all still in the points running, except those with less than 100 points after all 4 rounds.
 
ITCC_Andrew
Points updates as they come:


Caine: 93 points
BW: 81 points (well done!)
buck: 64 points
MrM: 64 points
Siggers: 62 points
Ciro: 62 points
ettick: 56 points
nas: 66 points (pre-penalty,) 32 points (post-penalty)

@Gedi69 doesn't know what he's talking about, and has only used 1 drop round according to my master sheets. :) What a sleepy goofball.

@GTracer98 and @Turbo_snail are still leading Team's championship, although FPR, T&TR and RRRT are still in extremely close contention.

@gtpcaine: 311 points
@ITCC_Andrew: 277 points
@Turbo_snail: 261 points
@Siggers: 258 points
@GTracer98: 254 points
@buck1: 239 points
@Gedi69: 184 points (-1 round)
@nascarfan1400: 150 points (post penalty), 184 points (before penalty) (-1 round)
@Dano20: 142 points (-2 rounds)
@RoadHawk: 96 points (-2 rounds)
@cnd01: 58 points (-3 rounds)
@Ettick: 56 points (-3 rounds)
@rallymorten: 54 points (-3 rounds)
@AonsoFan46: 46 points (-3 rounds)

As you can tell, the best thing to do is to race clean and avoid penalties, as buck, BW, Ciro, Caine and I are doing. That's the best way to score good points. It's a shame that I had a PS3 freeze in Race 2, because those points are so crucial for the hunt with Caine.




And, I may just have a trick up my sleeve for points near the end of the season. ;) You're all still in the points running, except those with less than 100 points after all 4 rounds.
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Wake up. You have been given proof, and have been told by many people that that's not apenalty. And it's not. đź‘Ž
 
Johnnypenso
This is the point in the replay from the view given that it appears the car on the left begins to turn in or a split second before. Is there enough overlap?

View attachment 116137
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Personally, I'd say yes, but "divebombing" implies that you didn't have overlap before the braking zone. However, nascarfan's reaction was unacceptable by any standard.
 
ITCC_Andrew
Personally, I'd say yes, but "divebombing" implies that you didn't have overlap before the braking zone. However, nascarfan's reaction was unacceptable by any standard.
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He never showed a sign of slowing, he drove right of. No. I'm not allowing it. That negates the penalty he would of had by me settling it there.
 
ITCC_Andrew
Update: I need to know where BW finished in Race 1 to finalize points.



He actually let off of the throttle to allow nas to get ahead. Nas pushed him into the wall instead of retaking the position.


If Nas had re-taken the position without contact, Siggers might've gotten the penalty (But probably not because Siggers lifted off of the throttle to let nas back in line). Instead, Siggers gets a warning and Nas gets the penalty.
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No he didn't. He let of the throttle, yes, but nas was still ahead at that point. He went full throttle when him and nas were level, and because Nas had a severely affected exit speed he passed him. There was 1 change of position, and that was sig going past Nas before he pushed him into the wall. If he was letting him through, he should have let nas get fully ahead, not level.

If I hit you going into the last corner, pushing you wide, would you really say it was acceptable for me to pass you on the next straight, given that I have just pushed you wide and compromised your corner?
 
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