Red Dead Redemption 2

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MatskiMonk
... if I was doing one of those martyr style cutting off my nose to spite my face protests, maybe... but as it stands, not playing the game achieves nothing. My point is made (as effectively as it can be) by not paying for it.
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I don't agree, sorry I quoted the last part instead of all of the bits as I'm lazy :lol:

By playing the game, you'll be pinging their servers, downloading their patches and contributing to their internal numbers for players. By talking about playing this game you are clearly excited about you generate positivity around it online... and I presume when you have finished it or are playing it you'll continue to contribute to the online positive buzz around the game.
By playing it you'll be actively helping promote Rockstar's game and product, part of which is the online you don't like.
By simply ignoring the online component but focusing on the single player content, you're protest is heard in the only meaningful way it can be. By not engaging with the online they know that they have failed to convert you and the rest of the players who don't engage.

If you decided to forfeit this whole game you wouldn't contribute to their numbers at all and, if others followed suit they would know that they have a problem they need to address. But by contributing to their numbers you negate this and simply help make the idea of second hand sales less appealing to publishers*.


*that is of course assuming you source your copy from a one time buyer (who plays it once and then never ever buys another copy) and not just a re-seller who effective works as any other video game outlet.
 
I hope there is no prototype weapons. No submachine guns, no automatic rifles and other weapons that dont fit the time period. Please Rockstar dont dumb it down just because casuals want a machine gun.

Only machine guns that should be in is the Gatling Gun and the Maxim Machine gun perhaps the Colt Browning 1895 machine gun since it was made in 1895 but that gun is also used for mounted purposes.

Only weapons in the game should be

-Revolvers
-Pistols
-Bolt Action Rifles
-Shotguns
-Single Shot rifles like the Berdan rifle and the Dreyse Needle Rifle
-Muskets(makes sense because of surplus weapons)
- Repeating rifles like the Winchester
 
baldgye
I don't agree, sorry I quoted the last part instead of all of the bits as I'm lazy :lol:

By playing the game, you'll be pinging their servers, downloading their patches and contributing to their internal numbers for players. By talking about playing this game you are clearly excited about you generate positivity around it online... and I presume when you have finished it or are playing it you'll continue to contribute to the online positive buzz around the game.
By playing it you'll be actively helping promote Rockstar's game and product, part of which is the online you don't like.
By simply ignoring the online component but focusing on the single player content, you're protest is heard in the only meaningful way it can be. By not engaging with the online they know that they have failed to convert you and the rest of the players who don't engage.

If you decided to forfeit this whole game you wouldn't contribute to their numbers at all and, if others followed suit they would know that they have a problem they need to address. But by contributing to their numbers you negate this and simply help make the idea of second hand sales less appealing to publishers*.


*that is of course assuming you source your copy from a one time buyer (who plays it once and then never ever buys another copy) and not just a re-seller who effective works as any other video game outlet.
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The number of people that will play online will be what it will be, the number of people that ping their servers just by firing up the game will be what it will be, by playing the game but not RDRO, my stats will contribute to that ratio being in favour of offline play.... but all that is over thinking things ... their goal will be to monetise my participation in the game - that's it, at a fundamental level, and there is no more direct way of me subverting than than to not add to the tally of new sales. Paying R* for the privilege of hoping they notice my stats is less effective. What other people choose to do is up to them. I made my point a while ago on Rockstars facebook page and unfollowed them for my own piece of mind, but it's a worthless effort.

My intention, will be, if possible to pick one up pre-owned on the high street. This may not be possible for a number of reasons, but it would be my primary goal.

_ApexPredator
Are you reading these comments? From one page of one forum...
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Haven't been following your discussion with Imari closely, but just to be clear on my position:

I don't like pre-order culture, and don't/would not pre-order a game.
I don't like games sacrificing off line content for on line content, and I especially don't like it when it's clearly geared towards driving micro-transactions.

Not sure if that fits into your discussion or not.
 
MatskiMonk
Haven't been following your discussion with Imari closely, but just to be clear on my position:

I don't like pre-order culture, and don't/would not pre-order a game.
I don't like games sacrificing off line content for on line content, and I especially don't like it when it's clearly geared towards driving micro-transactions.

Not sure if that fits into your discussion or not.
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Perfectly understandable position on pre-order culture; I'm not a fan of it either, especially as games increasingly come out needing day one patches etc.
Not sure what aspects of the singleplayer campaign you imagine get sacrificed for online content, but micro-transactions (across the board) have been a response to the pre-owned market boom, especially when support for a release can span several years.

It would be nice to get both, especially with a game like RDR2! Fingers crossed
 
MatskiMonk
My perfect scenario would be around 200 hours from a story based game, I know that's a big number but that would include stuff like hunting for all the collectibles and side missions along the way, which can easily flesh out the play time - especially on the grand scale maps modern games are capable of. I like to get immersed in a game, and I'm happy if that gets dragged out over a year to be honest. R* have been so good at building worlds, characters and stories even the more grindy style stuff is fairly enjoyable.

I also tend to get deep into specific franchises, rather than play lots of different games within a genre. As I'm sure I've said before, I'd be happy paying more for games if they delivered a longer or deeper experience - but conversely, I don't like the idea of spending a lot of money buying a lot of games. The game that came with my PS4 was Star Wars Battlefront 2, I'm a Star Wars fan, so that was okay, but I could not be less interested in online shooters, and the story mode, though worthwhile, was over in 3-4 evenings of play, the Arcade mode is alright but feels 'small', so.. it's a good game but it wouldn't have been great value for me personally.

RDR2 could well be truly epic. If it ends up feeling like it was just a tutorial for the cashgrab that will be RDRO, I'll be disappointed... and I always had that slight feeling that's what GTAV was. I will be happy if I am wrong.
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So you never played uncharted, last of us or God of war, because they are too short?
 
_ApexPredator
Not sure what aspects of the singleplayer campaign you imagine get sacrificed for online content, but micro-transactions (across the board) have been a response to the pre-owned market boom, especially when support for a release can span several years.
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5 years and counting, and no single player/offline update... how many has there been for GTA Online? GTA IV got two episodes, III and VC got spin off games, Red Dead Redemption got a spin off game... GTA V got... GTA Online. I think it's fairly clear their priorities have moved away from leveraging existing assets and development work by offering additional single player/offline content, to only doing it for people that play online.... The announcement of RDR Online at this stage leads me to imagine things won't be any different for this franchise.

I'm not against developers monetising long term support for a game in principle, but different developers do it different ways, some appear to be better than others.

PocketZeven
So you never played uncharted, last of us or God of war, because they are too short?
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I never played them simply because I never played them, not because they were too short.
 
MatskiMonk
5 years and counting, and no single player/offline update... how many has there been for GTA Online? GTA IV got two episodes, III and VC got spin off games, Red Dead Redemption got a spin off game... GTA V got... GTA Online. I think it's fairly clear their priorities have moved away from leveraging existing assets and development work by offering additional single player/offline content, to only doing it for people that play online....

I'm not against developers monetising long term support for a game in principle, but different developers do it different ways, some appear to be better than others.



I never played them simply because I never played them, not because they were too short.
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Makes me curious what games you like?
 
PocketZeven
Makes me curious what games you like?
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Difficult to say. Some games get me - some don't. These days I don't have the time or money to waste on experimenting as much as I used to, maybe that's the reason I'm so keen for franchises I already like to stick to their more traditional formulas.
 
MatskiMonk
Difficult to say. Some games get me - some don't. These days I don't have the time or money to waste on experimenting as much as I used to, maybe that's the reason I'm so keen for franchises I already like to stick to their more traditional formulas.
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Obviously GTA and RDR, but what other kind of games? I am curious, because my personal best experiences in singleplayer gaming have been with games that are less then 30 hours or even less then 20.
 
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PocketZeven
OEditbviously GTA and RDR, but what other kind of games? I am curious, because my personal best experiences in singleplayer gaming have been with games that are less then 30 hours or even less then 20.
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I'd be disappointed if a game I play offline would be that short. I love RPG's and games even slightly resembling one, and if it only spanned a week of playing then that wouldn't be worth my money to be honest. Although Destiny isn't really a single player game as it meshes the single player story with the multiplayer if you feel like it, I played the vast majority of the game away from the online segment. I accumulated something like 800 hours in Destiny 1, and 230 hours so far in Destiny 2 and I hardly ever played the PVP part of the game.
 
ImaRobot
I'd be disappointed if a game I play offline would be that short. I love RPG's and games even slightly resembling one, and if it only spanned a week of playing then that wouldn't be worth my money to be honest. Although Destiny isn't really a single player game as it meshes the single player story with the multiplayer if you feel like it, I played the vast majority of the game away from the online segment. I accumulated something like 800 hours in Destiny 1, and 230 hours so far in Destiny 2 and I hardly ever played the PVP part of the game.
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The Last of Us is one of the best games I ever played. I highly recommend playing it. The game probably is only 15 hours though.
 
PocketZeven
The Last of Us is one of the best games I ever played. I highly recommend playing it. The game probably is only 15 hours though.
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Yeah, but that's a heavy story-driven game with no multiplayer/online aspects, right? I'd say that's really not on the topic we're discussing.

Those games, I don't really mind them being that short because they're basically like a movie in my opinion.

While I'm talking about Destiny, they approached things similarly to what @MatskiMonk has a bit of distaste for, albeit not too much of an issue because what they did was free. Most of the special events for the game came from the PVP/multiplayer side of things. So it felt like I was forgotten because it was a mode I wasn't too fond of.
 
ImaRobot
Yeah, but that's a heavy story-driven game with no multiplayer/online aspects, right? I'd say that's really not on the topic we're discussing.

Those games, I don't really mind them being that short because they're basically like a movie in my opinion.

While I'm talking about Destiny, they approached things similarly to what @MatskiMonk has a bit of distaste for, albeit not too much of an issue because what they did was free. Most of the special events for the game came from the PVP/multiplayer side of things. So it felt like I was forgotten because it was a mode I wasn't too fond of.
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That is a reason why I dont play those kind of games. Every experience in the past I had with online gaming was ruined by cheaters or just abusive people (not to me personally). The original Last of Us did have a online multiplayer which never really took off. Personally I am fully confident that Red dead redemption will be a single player first and then a multi player. I am happy to give rockstar my money if the story and gameplay is good even if it ends up being 20 hours.
 
PocketZeven
That is a reason why I dont play those kind of games. Every experience in the past I had with online gaming was ruined by cheaters or just abusive people (not to me personally). The original Last of Us did have a online multiplayer which never really took off. Personally I am fully confident that Red dead redemption will be a single player first and then a multi player. I am happy to give rockstar my money if the story and gameplay is good even if it ends up being 20 hours.
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While I'm a bit more lenient with money in comparison, and would still buy the game because I know I'll have a good amount of hours put into it, it's still a bit disheartening to see one aspect of the game getting favored instead of both.

On an off-note, it would be really cool if they do another zombie theme(or something similarly eerie) for RDR2.
 
I'm not fussed with the online aspect of most games, I don't tend to game for long periods these days and a good offline experience is far more important to me. But regardless of any online modes and support, if the offline game is good enough, I will buy it.

I've seen GTA V used as an argument against R*, IMO GTA V's offline game was great, perhaps not the best story in GTA history, but it was a cracking game. An offline expansion might have been nice, but it certainly wasn't essential to making the offline game good or complete. IMO GTA V was a great offline game regardless of the lack of any expansions and the online mode.

I expect RDR2 to be the same, all of the hands on reports so far are very positive and hopefully it will deliver in the offline experience regardless of the online mode.

I don't buy many games, if I don't buy RDR2 it will probably be because it doesn't come out on the PC rather than it having an online mode. Money isn't the issue for me, it's time.

I will consider buying it for the PS4, however that so rarely gets switched on these days if I do buy RDR2 for the PS4 it will probalby won't get played nearly as often as if I could play it on my laptop.
 
Pete05
The last time I checked, the thread title says "Red Dead Redemption 2?"

Somehow it got hijacked & turned into a mass debate about online/offline content.
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Yes, and we're talking about potential aspects of multiplayer/singleplayer of the game, and explaining situations in which we prefer and used examples.

Sorry for offending you so much that you have to give unnecessary sass and being "Whiney little bitches" as you put it.
 
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_ApexPredator
Seems like there's only one of us making assumptions; you know my CV better than I do do you?
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I don't, I've said that I'm guessing. I know you saw that, you quoted it. There's nothing wrong with making assumptions when you don't have concrete information as long as they're made clear.

If you tell me that your opinion is based on the fact that you work for Rockstar and you have first hand information on why they do what they do, then I'm happy to accept that. After all, it's one thing to be reasoning based on common sense and observed behaviour, it's another to have information from the horse's mouth. But if you don't say it, I'll assume it isn't true because the chances of running into some random on the internet and them happening to work for Rockstar is tiny. You know, statistics.

So, do you work for Rockstar then? Maybe for one of Rockstar's subsidiaries that operate in the UK? Have they actually said that they're going to have a staggered PC release for reasons of piracy?

Are you reading these comments? From one page of one forum...
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Has nothing to do with a PC release and everything to do with game design. The player refuses to purchase the game new, full stop. However, they will pirate it given the chance, but would prefer simply to buy a second hand copy.

That's not a player that Rockstar were ever going to make money from. It's a protest, and they're going out of their way to make sure that Rockstar doesn't get their money no matter what.

In fact, arguably they have a better chance if MM pirates the game, decides that actually the single player content available is more than worth the cost despite his hatred for their online structure and that he would like to pay them money for that experience after all. The MM purchases a second hand copy, then he's not going to go buy a new one as well if he comes to the same conclusion.

Isn't it interesting how piracy isn't actually that clear cut? That's a situation where Rockstar would actually stand to make more money from a disgruntled customer if they can wow them after they pirated the game rather than just buying used. In that sense, piracy would seem to be preferable for Rockstar over the used game market. The used game market which continues to strongly exist on consoles, thanks to the backlash over Microsoft's plans at the start of this console generation, but is largely defunct on PC because PC games are sold through online stores like Steam or GOG.

If you work for Rockstar, what's their position on used games versus digital distribution?
 
Imari
all that jazz
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Piracy? I personally think it would have more to do with hackers than pirating. I've not been on GTAO on the PC in maybe a year now, but hackers completely fubared the economy on PC, dropping into rooms and in some cases giving the entire room millions of dollars. And that then disrupts the sale of Shark Cards every time some stupidly high costing dlc hits. And that doesnt even touch the game ruining hacking trolls that crash rooms, or blow everyone up constantly or somehow forcing another player to be stuck on you, preventing you from doing pretty much anything, and so on and so forth, that R* is highly inept at preventing.
I can see them wanting to optimize sales towards the console at first, where security is a lot less involved for them.
 
R1600Turbo
Rockstar has been releasing a bunch of additional info today. I would post the links but they won't work, so you'll have to go to their page to see them.

https://www.facebook.com/rockstargames/?__xts__[0]=68.ARCybJwSY-aHLKfyhA484ip_w9-VycfDqru-KTWRTdgkJRam2awSGXPngN1_UxkEF6bJATLpSUfGvc_AKkvpFSFVy4blVekG5F1TDAR9sUjGS814uK5HLRmZwkqo5n8fRLr3TE8ghlebW5MQgJSoiQmAhqb94Ph0KVqgnHkHju_LuFi2kiy-jElVrd1Y6811CFEMa-CCayY4L7b7SnNCHk89HwRX5motSlgLJjW3KyI
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I have a feeling no matter how good the story is I'm going to have a hard time focusing on it. :lol:
 
SestoScudo
In several previews you can read about how in Red Dead Redemption 2 weapons can degrade over time and even jam while shooting. To make sure this doesn't happen you can clean your weapon regularly to keep your gun in top form. recently announced Red Dead Online, but we've reached out to Rockstar hoping for some answers.

Source: https://www.usgamer.net/articles/red-dead-redemption-2-6-surprising-facts-and-5-unanswered-questions
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Hopefully the guns don't **** out as fast as they did in Far Cry 2 (but I've seen fan theories bandied about that in FC2's case, it can be said that the guns were knockoffs)
 

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