- 72
- Hong Kong
- chauming803
RIDOX Replica Garage-In Memory of TurnLeft-GT40,300ZX,F430,TVR,AEM S2000,Cizeta,TransAm Doug Nash
- Thread starter Ridox2JZGTE
- 5,032 comments
- 875,064 views
- 3,383
- Milky Way, Earth
- danbojte
@ChauMing803 For the moment, only individual gears. Until the patch will be ready.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Replica has been updated with 40/60 as base spec, alternative LSD, alignment and special review by Lewis_Hamilton_, thanks for the time and feedback 👍
Here it is ( also added on replica post ) :
Special Review by @Lewis_Hamilton_ driving both GT6 version replica and Assetto Corsa and 1080/60 fps video of the lap at Spa on both GT6 replica and Assetto Corsa Yellow Bird :
Ok, so I've ran some laps of the 38/62 weight distribution set up in GT6, and then hopped on to AC (both games running at the same time). Tried some laps at default LSD (40%), and at 80%. There's also the option for 60% which I haven't tried.
Initial impressions are that GT6 is both too slippery and grippy at the same time, if that makes any sense whatsoever, and I'm wondering how much of this comes down to GT6's track grip settings, broken camber physics and pandering to the casual players. Between the two games, I matched the same time of day, ambient temps and weather conditions (50% GT6 / mid-heavy cloud cover AC), and in AC I set the track to optimum conditions - which is the equivalent of a whole field of cars that have rubbered in the track for many laps. The reason why I've picked this rather than a none rubbered in track that's slick and slippery is because the YB in AC would be even slower. Interestingly, the look of the lighting/atmosphere in both is very similar.
As for the car:
In GT6 with 38/62 WD, the back end steps out both more frequently, easily and by much greater angles, but at the same time, it is still holding higher cornering speeds and is easy to recover, not once did I spin or go flying off the track. In AC, both with 40% and 80% LSD, the car feels more stable/planted but has lower cornering speed ability. 80% feels too safe to me however. The biggest difference is that in AC, you only need about half of the momentum of the weight shifting around at the rear in order to put the car in a situation where it is impossible to save and you end up facing the wrong way, no matter how quickly you react, what you do with the pedals or steering wheel. If you try and shift the weight around quickly, it's going to spin every time, where in GT6 it turns into an angled drift which you can save.
Another thing I noticed is that there is more wheel spin in AC - coming out of any corner in 2nd gear - despite GT6 being on the 2nd least grippy set of tyres. To match AC in this regard and cornering speeds, I think you would have to go down to CH tyres. In my opinion the problem is when you do that on GT6, it starts to feel like you're driving in the wet, you just don't have that feeling of connection with the road. Trying to match what I was doing in GT6 either resulted in going wide or the rear coming around despite initially being at much lower slip angles than GT6, but I have always complained about this issue for lord knows how many years, GT6 is just too forgiving and allows you to be far too aggressive, that's just how the physics are. Over all, lap times in GT6 were 4-5 seconds quicker around Spa. I'd test around Tsukuba but I don't think the Tsukuba that's been modded by whoever in AC is of high enough quality, at least Spa is fully modeled and laser scanned by Kunos.
I'm going to give the 40/60 WD set up a go now, I reckon that will help match the two games closer together, so that there's less weight on the rear causing more wheel spin in 2nd, and so that the rear isn't swinging around so wildly and easily. Braking without ABS on both is pretty similar, you can feel the bite and lock up much better in AC (a result of the game physics and not the cars), but importantly the actual braking distances and point of lock up is closely matched.
So after the first test, I think CH tyres in GT6 will get the games to perform similar laps times and cornering speeds, but I don't think they'd be anything you could do to match the feeling you have in AC of driving a real car simply because it is much more advanced and has a lot more grunt to pull it off (hardware wise).
Please don't think I am criticizing your replica, by GT6 standards it feels great and you've done a great job, it's GT's physics that are letting it down rather than the car itself. If I drive in GT6 the same way I have to in AC then both feel more similar, it's when you come to pushing lap times that GT exposes it's flaws. I'll give you some more feedback on the other 40/60 WD and will probably try "stock" 43/57 as well.
Good news! It's a new Dacia Sandero!
Ok so I've tried out the 40/60 distribution and also bumped up the rear BB to 6. Did about 15 laps on GT6 and then jumped into AC, increased the tyre pressure but dropped it down to "Green" track settings (about medium grip out of all the options, takes a while for the track to come in). Within 5 laps I was just 5 hundredths off my lap time in GT6.
The 40/60 WD helps to match the AC versions corner entry understeer, tyre slip in 2nd gear and cornering speeds. There were differences here and there, and I also find it harder to get the line right in AC (need to fiddle with controller settings), but over all, the lap times are nearly identical. In GT6 I also had a couple of rear end snapping and off track moments like I did in AC when trying to drive both the same way. GT6's version still has a looser rear end, and it's still easier to regain control, but the behaviour of the car is much closer. Now if only GT had a tyre model, I bet you could get them to react very similar indeed, with the main differences being how the cars feel to drive due to the different physics engines.
I've saved a replay on each game. Driving style and lines will probably look quite different, but the particular lap replays I saved had a mere 0.03 difference.
I tested with the 4.000 final drive, the gearing was pretty much spot on so I didn't fiddle with it. I stuck with CM tyres, increasing the tyre pressure and ambient temp by 2 celsius in AC helped to make the car faster in AC. I tried to drive both the same, I fell behind in GT6 after Eau Rouge because the rear was sliding, but managed to catch up the gap at Bruxelles with a more aggressive exit that only GT6 would allow, from there on, both laps are almost identical, even the gear changes. I tried to keep the upshift time equal in GT6, as the YB in GT6 can upshift instantly, whereas in AC the game simulates this better. Basically I let go of the throttle for the same amount of time that I would in my real life car when "giving it the beans".
Though I agree that adding more camber would have helped adjust the lap time, I think it would have made the car too slippery, GT6 already feels like it's on ice when you've just come from AC, there is so much difference in the feeling even if both cars are doing the same thing. Anyway here's the video, split screen 1080p/60.
Watch the video and leave comments too
Last edited:
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
Replica has been updated with 40/60 as base spec, alternative LSD, alignment and special review by Lewis_Hamilton_, thanks for the time and feedback 👍
Here it is ( also added on replica post ) :
Special Review by @Lewis_Hamilton_ driving both GT6 version replica and Assetto Corsa and 1080/60 fps video of the lap at Spa on both GT6 replica and Assetto Corsa Yellow Bird :
Ok, so I've ran some laps of the 38/62 weight distribution set up in GT6, and then hopped on to AC (both games running at the same time). Tried some laps at default LSD (40%), and at 80%. There's also the option for 60% which I haven't tried.
Initial impressions are that GT6 is both too slippery and grippy at the same time, if that makes any sense whatsoever, and I'm wondering how much of this comes down to GT6's track grip settings, broken camber physics and pandering to the casual players. Between the two games, I matched the same time of day, ambient temps and weather conditions (50% GT6 / mid-heavy cloud cover AC), and in AC I set the track to optimum conditions - which is the equivalent of a whole field of cars that have rubbered in the track for many laps. The reason why I've picked this rather than a none rubbered in track that's slick and slippery is because the YB in AC would be even slower. Interestingly, the look of the lighting/atmosphere in both is very similar.
As for the car:
In GT6 with 38/62 WD, the back end steps out both more frequently, easily and by much greater angles, but at the same time, it is still holding higher cornering speeds and is easy to recover, not once did I spin or go flying off the track. In AC, both with 40% and 80% LSD, the car feels more stable/planted but has lower cornering speed ability. 80% feels too safe to me however. The biggest difference is that in AC, you only need about half of the momentum of the weight shifting around at the rear in order to put the car in a situation where it is impossible to save and you end up facing the wrong way, no matter how quickly you react, what you do with the pedals or steering wheel. If you try and shift the weight around quickly, it's going to spin every time, where in GT6 it turns into an angled drift which you can save.
Another thing I noticed is that there is more wheel spin in AC - coming out of any corner in 2nd gear - despite GT6 being on the 2nd least grippy set of tyres. To match AC in this regard and cornering speeds, I think you would have to go down to CH tyres. In my opinion the problem is when you do that on GT6, it starts to feel like you're driving in the wet, you just don't have that feeling of connection with the road. Trying to match what I was doing in GT6 either resulted in going wide or the rear coming around despite initially being at much lower slip angles than GT6, but I have always complained about this issue for lord knows how many years, GT6 is just too forgiving and allows you to be far too aggressive, that's just how the physics are. Over all, lap times in GT6 were 4-5 seconds quicker around Spa. I'd test around Tsukuba but I don't think the Tsukuba that's been modded by whoever in AC is of high enough quality, at least Spa is fully modeled and laser scanned by Kunos.
I'm going to give the 40/60 WD set up a go now, I reckon that will help match the two games closer together, so that there's less weight on the rear causing more wheel spin in 2nd, and so that the rear isn't swinging around so wildly and easily. Braking without ABS on both is pretty similar, you can feel the bite and lock up much better in AC (a result of the game physics and not the cars), but importantly the actual braking distances and point of lock up is closely matched.
So after the first test, I think CH tyres in GT6 will get the games to perform similar laps times and cornering speeds, but I don't think they'd be anything you could do to match the feeling you have in AC of driving a real car simply because it is much more advanced and has a lot more grunt to pull it off (hardware wise).
Please don't think I am criticizing your replica, by GT6 standards it feels great and you've done a great job, it's GT's physics that are letting it down rather than the car itself. If I drive in GT6 the same way I have to in AC then both feel more similar, it's when you come to pushing lap times that GT exposes it's flaws. I'll give you some more feedback on the other 40/60 WD and will probably try "stock" 43/57 as well.
Good news! It's a new Dacia Sandero!
Ok so I've tried out the 40/60 distribution and also bumped up the rear BB to 6. Did about 15 laps on GT6 and then jumped into AC, increased the tyre pressure but dropped it down to "Green" track settings (about medium grip out of all the options, takes a while for the track to come in). Within 5 laps I was just 5 hundredths off my lap time in GT6.
The 40/60 WD helps to match the AC versions corner entry understeer, tyre slip in 2nd gear and cornering speeds. There were differences here and there, and I also find it harder to get the line right in AC (need to fiddle with controller settings), but over all, the lap times are nearly identical. In GT6 I also had a couple of rear end snapping and off track moments like I did in AC when trying to drive both the same way. GT6's version still has a looser rear end, and it's still easier to regain control, but the behaviour of the car is much closer. Now if only GT had a tyre model, I bet you could get them to react very similar indeed, with the main differences being how the cars feel to drive due to the different physics engines.
I've saved a replay on each game. Driving style and lines will probably look quite different, but the particular lap replays I saved had a mere 0.03 difference.
I tested with the 4.000 final drive, the gearing was pretty much spot on so I didn't fiddle with it. I stuck with CM tyres, increasing the tyre pressure and ambient temp by 2 celsius in AC helped to make the car faster in AC. I tried to drive both the same, I fell behind in GT6 after Eau Rouge because the rear was sliding, but managed to catch up the gap at Bruxelles with a more aggressive exit that only GT6 would allow, from there on, both laps are almost identical, even the gear changes. I tried to keep the upshift time equal in GT6, as the YB in GT6 can upshift instantly, whereas in AC the game simulates this better. Basically I let go of the throttle for the same amount of time that I would in my real life car when "giving it the beans".
Though I agree that adding more camber would have helped adjust the lap time, I think it would have made the car too slippery, GT6 already feels like it's on ice when you've just come from AC, there is so much difference in the feeling even if both cars are doing the same thing. Anyway here's the video, split screen 1080p/60.
Watch the video and leave comments too
Wow, that was a great review by a great driver
. Can't wait until they fix the bug so I can try out my Yellow Bird Replica 👍 and see how it holds out, I'm not expecting a grippy car ( would be disappointed 
), but something that will make me feel as close to the real thing 
. I'm working on a 754 HP / 1064kg version on CS, I'm getting close to being able to take those curves as you see them do IRL videos, yes I know that it's overkill 
, but once in a while I like doing things differently. I'm doing a review of your Saleen and Andy Pilgrim Corvette, I'm trying something different 
, but I doubt I'll repeat this again. Sometimes you have an idea and you didn't think off how much time it would take, but once started you just have to make it through to the end, so be patient and I'll have it up here in some nearby future. 
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Wow, that was a great review by a great driver
Still waiting for the bug fix too
, Are you making 754HP/1064kg YB ? That much power is best driven on the highway, Wangan style 
Taking low speed curves would be scary 
Interesting review, can't wait to hear from you 👍 I also need to drive the C1 Vette
and do a quick review and I will be posting some cars in a few days.
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
That's the one I was thinking about 👍,
re you making 754HP/1064kg YB ? That much power is best driven on the highway, Wangan style
where's that one
? I thought you only did one.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
- 5,161
- Massachusetts
Replica has been updated with 40/60 as base spec, alternative LSD, alignment and special review by Lewis_Hamilton_, thanks for the time and feedback 👍
Here it is ( also added on replica post ) :
Special Review by @Lewis_Hamilton_ driving both GT6 version replica and Assetto Corsa and 1080/60 fps video of the lap at Spa on both GT6 replica and Assetto Corsa Yellow Bird :
Ok, so I've ran some laps of the 38/62 weight distribution set up in GT6, and then hopped on to AC (both games running at the same time). Tried some laps at default LSD (40%), and at 80%. There's also the option for 60% which I haven't tried.
Initial impressions are that GT6 is both too slippery and grippy at the same time, if that makes any sense whatsoever, and I'm wondering how much of this comes down to GT6's track grip settings, broken camber physics and pandering to the casual players. Between the two games, I matched the same time of day, ambient temps and weather conditions (50% GT6 / mid-heavy cloud cover AC), and in AC I set the track to optimum conditions - which is the equivalent of a whole field of cars that have rubbered in the track for many laps. The reason why I've picked this rather than a none rubbered in track that's slick and slippery is because the YB in AC would be even slower. Interestingly, the look of the lighting/atmosphere in both is very similar.
As for the car:
In GT6 with 38/62 WD, the back end steps out both more frequently, easily and by much greater angles, but at the same time, it is still holding higher cornering speeds and is easy to recover, not once did I spin or go flying off the track. In AC, both with 40% and 80% LSD, the car feels more stable/planted but has lower cornering speed ability. 80% feels too safe to me however. The biggest difference is that in AC, you only need about half of the momentum of the weight shifting around at the rear in order to put the car in a situation where it is impossible to save and you end up facing the wrong way, no matter how quickly you react, what you do with the pedals or steering wheel. If you try and shift the weight around quickly, it's going to spin every time, where in GT6 it turns into an angled drift which you can save.
Another thing I noticed is that there is more wheel spin in AC - coming out of any corner in 2nd gear - despite GT6 being on the 2nd least grippy set of tyres. To match AC in this regard and cornering speeds, I think you would have to go down to CH tyres. In my opinion the problem is when you do that on GT6, it starts to feel like you're driving in the wet, you just don't have that feeling of connection with the road. Trying to match what I was doing in GT6 either resulted in going wide or the rear coming around despite initially being at much lower slip angles than GT6, but I have always complained about this issue for lord knows how many years, GT6 is just too forgiving and allows you to be far too aggressive, that's just how the physics are. Over all, lap times in GT6 were 4-5 seconds quicker around Spa. I'd test around Tsukuba but I don't think the Tsukuba that's been modded by whoever in AC is of high enough quality, at least Spa is fully modeled and laser scanned by Kunos.
I'm going to give the 40/60 WD set up a go now, I reckon that will help match the two games closer together, so that there's less weight on the rear causing more wheel spin in 2nd, and so that the rear isn't swinging around so wildly and easily. Braking without ABS on both is pretty similar, you can feel the bite and lock up much better in AC (a result of the game physics and not the cars), but importantly the actual braking distances and point of lock up is closely matched.
So after the first test, I think CH tyres in GT6 will get the games to perform similar laps times and cornering speeds, but I don't think they'd be anything you could do to match the feeling you have in AC of driving a real car simply because it is much more advanced and has a lot more grunt to pull it off (hardware wise).
Please don't think I am criticizing your replica, by GT6 standards it feels great and you've done a great job, it's GT's physics that are letting it down rather than the car itself. If I drive in GT6 the same way I have to in AC then both feel more similar, it's when you come to pushing lap times that GT exposes it's flaws. I'll give you some more feedback on the other 40/60 WD and will probably try "stock" 43/57 as well.
Good news! It's a new Dacia Sandero!
Ok so I've tried out the 40/60 distribution and also bumped up the rear BB to 6. Did about 15 laps on GT6 and then jumped into AC, increased the tyre pressure but dropped it down to "Green" track settings (about medium grip out of all the options, takes a while for the track to come in). Within 5 laps I was just 5 hundredths off my lap time in GT6.
The 40/60 WD helps to match the AC versions corner entry understeer, tyre slip in 2nd gear and cornering speeds. There were differences here and there, and I also find it harder to get the line right in AC (need to fiddle with controller settings), but over all, the lap times are nearly identical. In GT6 I also had a couple of rear end snapping and off track moments like I did in AC when trying to drive both the same way. GT6's version still has a looser rear end, and it's still easier to regain control, but the behaviour of the car is much closer. Now if only GT had a tyre model, I bet you could get them to react very similar indeed, with the main differences being how the cars feel to drive due to the different physics engines.
I've saved a replay on each game. Driving style and lines will probably look quite different, but the particular lap replays I saved had a mere 0.03 difference.
I tested with the 4.000 final drive, the gearing was pretty much spot on so I didn't fiddle with it. I stuck with CM tyres, increasing the tyre pressure and ambient temp by 2 celsius in AC helped to make the car faster in AC. I tried to drive both the same, I fell behind in GT6 after Eau Rouge because the rear was sliding, but managed to catch up the gap at Bruxelles with a more aggressive exit that only GT6 would allow, from there on, both laps are almost identical, even the gear changes. I tried to keep the upshift time equal in GT6, as the YB in GT6 can upshift instantly, whereas in AC the game simulates this better. Basically I let go of the throttle for the same amount of time that I would in my real life car when "giving it the beans".
Though I agree that adding more camber would have helped adjust the lap time, I think it would have made the car too slippery, GT6 already feels like it's on ice when you've just come from AC, there is so much difference in the feeling even if both cars are doing the same thing. Anyway here's the video, split screen 1080p/60.
Watch the video and leave comments too
Absolutely fantastic review by a very well respected member of GTP!! 👍 Bravo to you, Ridox, for building such a competitive Yellowbird Replica. I know this exceptional review probably won't earn you many more regular garage visitors because who wants realism when they could just slap RS tires on their Yellowbird along with 900HP right?
Okay...Enough sarcasm. Fantastic job driving by @Lewis_Hamilton_!I'm really tempted to just build a new PC strictly for racing sims. Assetto Corsa has most of my interest right now because of the number of quality mods I see being built for it. Yes, I'm sure there is a bunch of garbage being built, but no one is forcing you to download those tracks/cars if you don't like them. The Dream Pack alone is enough to make me want to play AC for about 72 straight hours!!
I remember watching a YouTube video where someone compared lap times in AC versus GT6 using the Ferrari 458 on Silverstone and I think that person was also 4-5 seconds faster, per lap, in Gran Turismo. That's interesting to me, as Lewis_Hamilton mentioned a 4-5s difference at first too.
Even though I don't have Assetto Corsa, nor do I play any other sim/driving game, I completely understand what he means about Gran Turismo being too slippery and too grippy at the same time. It's a very strange sensation, but it is completely true. Of course, you have to be driving on CS/CM/CH to really experience that sensation while driving.
I really hope that Lewis's review reaches a wide audience on GTP. For one, it will provide ample evidence that CM tires are appropriate in an extremely wide array of circumstances (as are CH and CS tires). When I read people saying that they choose a tire based on how much HP a car has -
UGH! That's not how it works!! Anyway... This was a most interesting read. Again, it's really nice to see top tier GTP members/drivers running your replica cars Ridox! It's not just bums like me... Awesome job with the comparison, review and videos Lewis_Hamilton!
EDIT: I meat to add that my brother plays Forza 5 on the Xbox One. We've both been playing our respective games about as long, though I have much more free time to play than he does. Since our games have a few similar tracks, he'll often tell me a lap time he set on Laguna Seca in his Z06, for instance, and then I'll ask him for all the pertinent specs and go out there and try to beat his lap time. I always have to drive on CM tires to have comparable times to him. Now, it could be that I am a better driver at my game than he is at his. I think it has a lot more to do with our Sport Tires being too damn grippy. I'd like to throw in that I usually still beat him on my CM tires!
I think CH tires should be downgraded, along with CM and CS. I think CS should have a grip level equal to what our CM tires currently are. And our CM tires should be just a tick stickier than what CH tires are currently.
I believe that SH tires should be about as sticky as CS are at the moment and then move SM to what SH is now and SS to what SM currently provides for grip. Something along those lines. Racing Soft tires should be removed from the game altogether!
I'm just kidding, but I feel our line of Racing tires are probably a little too grippy as well. The RS tires most certainly are grippier than even the softest tires in Formula One. That's just too damn soft, in my opinion.
Last edited:
- 5,161
- Massachusetts
BMW E92 M3 GTS
Tuned to replicate BMW E92 M3 GTS based on M3 Chrome Line
Comfort Soft to Sports Medium
CAR : BMW M3 Coupe Chrome Line
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium
Specs
Horsepower: 444 HP / 450 PS at 7900 RPM
Torque : 328.8 ft-lb at 5000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 91.0%
Weight: 1530 kg
Ballast : 84 kg
Ballast Position : -5
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50 - real life 50.8/49.2 reflected in ballast position.
Performance Points: 506
GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED ) - OPTIONAL - the real car has chassis reinforcement and track spec roll cage
Aero Kits Type A
Rear Wing : Generic Wing Type C
Wheels : +1 Inch Up - BBS RE-MG in Black Matte / GT6 Matte 008
Car Paint : Monaco Orange
Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports Exhaust
Intake Tuning
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weigh Reduction Stage 1
Suspension - KW Club Sport M3 GTS Coilover
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 90 82
Spring Rate: 9.07 14.27
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 4 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 0.2 0.2 ( use alternate zero camber all around for max grip )
Toe Angle: 0.06 0.12
Alternative Damper Setup for various track based/adapted from KW Club Sport Recommended Setup and real life setup :
Winding/Twisty + Bumpy Road ( Nordschleife, Touge etc )
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 4 4
Track - High Speed Stability ( Nurb GP/F, Willow Springs )
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 5 6
Track - Loose + Technical Track ( Tsukuba ) -KW Recommended Setup
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 6 5
Street - Cruise
Dampers (Compression): 2 2
Dampers (Extension): 2 1
LSD - 1.5way
Initial Torque : 20
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 15
DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Adapted 7 Speed Drivelogic
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed to 250kmh / 155mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 4.780
2nd 3.056
3rd 2.153
4th 1.678
5th 1.390
6th 1.000 ( the real 6th gear is omitted, 7th gear is used instead to maintain real life top speed )
Set Final Gear : 3.154
If wanted to lower top speed in favour of acceleration, simply replace 6th 1.000 with the real 6th ratio : 1.203
AERO
Rear : 20 ( MAX )
Brake Balance:
8/8 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/6, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.
Recommended setting for DS3 user :
Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 8/8 brake balance as starting point.
Notes :
BMW M3 GTS, with 444HP/450PS, 1530kg. The replica is built upon request, I researched BMW M forums, press releases, car reviews and consulting owners of M3 via forum.
Suspension damper settings are adapted from real life setup and KW recommended setup, use these to your preferences. Try them all, and see which one works best for given track and tire used. Personally I used winding/twisty setup. Improve Body Rigidity is optional, I suggest to install it only when you feel the car is too loose as it makes is a bit more responsive but tighter.
The replica uses comfort soft tires in order to replicate lap time accurately. The M3 GTS managed to lap Nurb GP/F in easily consistent 2:21s just like real life lap time record.
I decided to combine 6th and 7th into one, the replica uses real life 7th for 6th. Please read the notes on gear ratio section for explanation. Shift up from 5th to 6th on redline.
When tested at Nordschleife, the car managed sub 8 minutes with ease on comfort soft tire, so it should be able to replicate real life lap record easily.
Use the brakes to rotate on entry and throttle to steer the car one exit
ENJOY
I don't know how the heck I missed this fantastic BMW from your Page 1 Tuning Directory. I'm a huge fan of M3's (and now M4s
) and BMW in general, so I was thrilled that I had a new toy to play with last night and this morning. There was only one M3 Chrome Line in my Garage, so I abducted him for the rebuild. I'll buy a new Chrome Line M3 in the future...I have some mixed feelings on this car. It's fast! No question about that. There is plenty of low-end torque, which is a huge plus for me. There is nothing worse than being in 3rd gear with your foot to the floor and the car is going nowhere. Sure, you probably should have downshifted coming out of that slight bend, but it was bumpy and you didn't want to upset the car anymore than it already was...Ugh. Scenarios like that drive me nuts.
I drove the car quite a bit last night without the Chassis Reinforcement installed. I wasn't intentionally trying to drive without it - I just forgot to install it. This morning I installed it right away, before doing any laps without it installed, and for some reason now I don't think I like the car quite as much as I did last night. Honestly, this might have absolutely nothing to do with installing the rollcage. I really wish I drove it a few laps before installing it though... Obviously, I could just buy another '07 M3 and build the tune identically except for the rollcage. At some point I think I will do that. I want another Chrome Line M3 anyway, so I might as well do the comparison.
I don't drive with Racing Brakes nearly as much as I used to. I'd say that during the first 7-8 months of playing GT6 I would drive with Racing Brakes installed 80% or more of the time. Through my love of driving Ridox Replicas and just manning the F up, in general, I no longer rely on Racing Brakes in the majority of my vehicles. So, I thought I would be in for a real treat when I saw that my new E92 M3 GTS was rockin' the racing brakes. Well, little miss GTS isn't exactly svelt. At 1530kg she's not exactly a Whole Lotta Rosie either, but she's more Rosie than she is Calista Flockhart. What I'm saying is, thank god for the racing brakes because even with them installed I don't think this car's brakes are very good. I had them at 7/8 but moved them down to 6/7 because I was getting locked up too frequently under hard braking. I just have to remember to get off the throttle and ease into the brake pedal a tad sooner than I would normally brake. It's not the end of the world, but I do take points off for these flaws.
The handling of this M3 isn't bad, but it's not knock out spectacular like I was expecting. I really found myself cranking the wheel more than usual on my laps around the Nurburgring Nordschleife. So, you can get it done in this car...it just feels like I had to work a little harder than usual to get it done.
For laughs, I took my '07 M3 GTS out for three races in the National A 500PP Clubman Cup. The maximum allowed PP is 600, so I thought I might experience some decent competition. Eh, not really. The ace of the group last night was a fella driving an '03 BMW GTR. The last race took place on Mount Panorama and when I crossed the finish line, Mr. BMW GTR was over half a minute behind me. I did have some fun during the first lap, or lap and a half, depending on the race, because I made a rule that I was not allowed to touch another car no matter what. So, there was a lot of patience in my driving. I didn't want to scratch or dent my beautiful new BMW GTS!
In conclusion, if you're a fan of BMW or M3's you don't want to miss this car. I only drove it on CS tires thus far, but the grip is quite outstanding. There are a couple of flaws in this car, but what car doesn't have them? Even if you're just looking for a 500 to 520 PP car this really would be a solid choice. The price isn't too bad and the engine in this car is top notch! I expect to have a LOT of fun in this car... 👍
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Absolutely fantastic review by a very well respected member of GTP!! 👍 Bravo to you, Ridox, for building such a competitive Yellowbird Replica. I know this exceptional review probably won't earn you many more regular garage visitors because who wants realism when they could just slap RS tires on their Yellowbird along with 900HP right?
I'm really tempted to just build a new PC strictly for racing sims. Assetto Corsa has most of my interest right now because of the number of quality mods I see being built for it. Yes, I'm sure there is a bunch of garbage being built, but no one is forcing you to download those tracks/cars if you don't like them. The Dream Pack alone is enough to make me want to play AC for about 72 straight hours!!
I remember watching a YouTube video where someone compared lap times in AC versus GT6 using the Ferrari 458 on Silverstone and I think that person was also 4-5 seconds faster, per lap, in Gran Turismo. That's interesting to me, as Lewis_Hamilton mentioned a 4-5s difference at first too.
Even though I don't have Assetto Corsa, nor do I play any other sim/driving game, I completely understand what he means about Gran Turismo being too slippery and too grippy at the same time. It's a very strange sensation, but it is completely true. Of course, you have to be driving on CS/CM/CH to really experience that sensation while driving.
I really hope that Lewis's review reaches a wide audience on GTP. For one, it will provide ample evidence that CM tires are appropriate in an extremely wide array of circumstances (as are CH and CS tires). When I read people saying that they choose a tire based on how much HP a car has -
Awesome job with the comparison, review and videos Lewis_Hamilton!
EDIT: I meat to add that my brother plays Forza 5 on the Xbox One. We've both been playing our respective games about as long, though I have much more free time to play than he does. Since our games have a few similar tracks, he'll often tell me a lap time he set on Laguna Seca in his Z06, for instance, and then I'll ask him for all the pertinent specs and go out there and try to beat his lap time. I always have to drive on CM tires to have comparable times to him. Now, it could be that I am a better driver at my game than he is at his. I think it has a lot more to do with our Sport Tires being too damn grippy. I'd like to throw in that I usually still beat him on my CM tires!
I think CH tires should be downgraded, along with CM and CS. I think CS should have a grip level equal to what our CM tires currently are. And our CM tires should be just a tick stickier than what CH tires are currently.
I believe that SH tires should be about as sticky as CS are at the moment and then move SM to what SH is now and SS to what SM currently provides for grip. Something along those lines. Racing Soft tires should be removed from the game altogether!
Thank you
I was also surprised with the feedback and test result on the YB. I never expected the YB would able to lap very close to AC at Spa. Can't thank Lewis enough for driving and providing more insight about both game's YB.For tires, I always felt that comfort and sports tire has too much lateral grip in GT6, while straight line grip is good enough. The tire model needs serious work as the behavior when on the limit and beyond is still primitive compared to PC games like Rfactor, LFS and AC.
If I can just do simple tweak on the tire grip level, I would reduce all tires lateral grip by 10% ( on tires wider than 215 ) and increase straight line ( traction ) by 20%-35% ( less on wider tread tire - above 275 @ 10% ) Adjust tire temperature changes to more realistic level so it would react better to being pushed hard. Most importantly also allow us to fit different tire width ( within sensible range - 30 range is good, so 215 can go up to 235 and down to 185 )
The racing tire in GT6 also felt too stiff IMO, while sports soft needs more tweaking in the way it loses traction ( needs to be edgier )
I have Live for Speed on my laptop for more than a few years now, still play it occasionally
Getting AC is a good move if you have PC strong enough to run it, you won't be disappointed.I don't know how the heck I missed this fantastic BMW from your Page 1 Tuning Directory. I'm a huge fan of M3's (and now M4s
I have some mixed feelings on this car. It's fast! No question about that. There is plenty of low-end torque, which is a huge plus for me. There is nothing worse than being in 3rd gear with your foot to the floor and the car is going nowhere. Sure, you probably should have downshifted coming out of that slight bend, but it was bumpy and you didn't want to upset the car anymore than it already was...Ugh. Scenarios like that drive me nuts.
I drove the car quite a bit last night without the Chassis Reinforcement installed. I wasn't intentionally trying to drive without it - I just forgot to install it. This morning I installed it right away, before doing any laps without it installed, and for some reason now I don't think I like the car quite as much as I did last night. Honestly, this might have absolutely nothing to do with installing the rollcage. I really wish I drove it a few laps before installing it though... Obviously, I could just buy another '07 M3 and build the tune identically except for the rollcage. At some point I think I will do that. I want another Chrome Line M3 anyway, so I might as well do the comparison.
I don't drive with Racing Brakes nearly as much as I used to. I'd say that during the first 7-8 months of playing GT6 I would drive with Racing Brakes installed 80% or more of the time. Through my love of driving Ridox Replicas and just manning the F up, in general, I no longer rely on Racing Brakes in the majority of my vehicles. So, I thought I would be in for a real treat when I saw that my new E92 M3 GTS was rockin' the racing brakes. Well, little miss GTS isn't exactly svelt. At 1530kg she's not exactly a Whole Lotta Rosie either, but she's more Rosie than she is Calista Flockhart. What I'm saying is, thank god for the racing brakes because even with them installed I don't think this car's brakes are very good. I had them at 7/8 but moved them down to 6/7 because I was getting locked up too frequently under hard braking. I just have to remember to get off the throttle and ease into the brake pedal a tad sooner than I would normally brake. It's not the end of the world, but I do take points off for these flaws.
The handling of this M3 isn't bad, but it's not knock out spectacular like I was expecting. I really found myself cranking the wheel more than usual on my laps around the Nurburgring Nordschleife. So, you can get it done in this car...it just feels like I had to work a little harder than usual to get it done.
For laughs, I took my '07 M3 GTS out for three races in the National A 500PP Clubman Cup. The maximum allowed PP is 600, so I thought I might experience some decent competition. Eh, not really. The ace of the group last night was a fella driving an '03 BMW GTR. The last race took place on Mount Panorama and when I crossed the finish line, Mr. BMW GTR was over half a minute behind me. I did have some fun during the first lap, or lap and a half, depending on the race, because I made a rule that I was not allowed to touch another car no matter what. So, there was a lot of patience in my driving. I didn't want to scratch or dent my beautiful new BMW GTS!
In conclusion, if you're a fan of BMW or M3's you don't want to miss this car. I only drove it on CS tires thus far, but the grip is quite outstanding. There are a couple of flaws in this car, but what car doesn't have them? Even if you're just looking for a 500 to 520 PP car this really would be a solid choice. The price isn't too bad and the engine in this car is top notch! I expect to have a LOT of fun in this car... 👍
Glad you enjoyed the car, I also need to drive this again and update the alignment
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
It's funny that I've been doing the same thing for a while now, I've added -NO PASSING OFF ROADI made a rule that I was not allowed to touch another car no matter what. So, there was a lot of patience in my driving. I didn't want to scratch or dent my beautiful new BMW GTS!
- that with using no aids and lower grade tires has made a few of the races more competitive.
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
When I started out in GT5 I was such a lousy driver that anyway I could use to win would be good. A few AI drivers were used as brakes (it would also take them out of the race
), I would use shortcuts, walls to hold me in, anything the game permitted. Then GT6 came and I signed in at 
, started doing the TT ( couldn't use all my tricks) and just started to learn how to be better from all kinds off driving experiences and meeting wonderful people . Also got into tuning and that too has been a huge learning curve. I'd say that with 99.9 % of the people here it has been a great ride 👍. 
That's good you've evolved.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
BMW E92 M3 GTS
Tuned to replicate BMW E92 M3 GTS based on M3 Chrome Line
Comfort Soft to Sports Medium
CAR : BMW M3 Coupe Chrome Line
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium
Specs
Horsepower: 444 HP / 450 PS at 7900 RPM
Torque : 328.8 ft-lb at 5000 RPM
Power Limiter at : 91.0%
Weight: 1530 kg
Ballast : 84 kg
Ballast Position : -5
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50 - real life 50.8/49.2 reflected in ballast position.
Performance Points: 506
GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED ) - OPTIONAL - the real car has chassis reinforcement and track spec roll cage
Aero Kits Type A
Rear Wing : Generic Wing Type C
Wheels : +1 Inch Up - BBS RE-MG in Black Matte / GT6 Matte 008
Car Paint : Monaco Orange
Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports Exhaust
Intake Tuning
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weigh Reduction Stage 1
Suspension - KW Club Sport M3 GTS Coilover
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 90 82
Spring Rate: 9.07 14.27
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 4 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.6 ( Front : 0.8 - 2.5, Rear : 1.6 - 2.1 )
Toe Angle: 0.06 0.12 ( Front : 0.03 - 0.20, Rear : 0.10 - 0.20 )
Alternative Damper Setup for various track based/adapted from KW Club Sport Recommended Setup and real life setup :
Winding/Twisty + Bumpy Road ( Nordschleife, Touge etc )
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 4 4
Track - High Speed Stability ( Nurb GP/F, Willow Springs )
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 5 6
Track - Loose + Technical Track ( Tsukuba ) -KW Recommended Setup
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 6 5
Street - Cruise
Dampers (Compression): 2 2
Dampers (Extension): 2 1
LSD - 1.5way
Initial Torque : 20
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 15
DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Adapted 7 Speed Drivelogic
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed to 250kmh / 155mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 4.780
2nd 3.056
3rd 2.153
4th 1.678
5th 1.390
6th 1.000 ( the real 6th gear is omitted, 7th gear is used instead to maintain real life top speed )
Set Final Gear : 3.154
If wanted to lower top speed in favour of acceleration, simply replace 6th 1.000 with the real 6th ratio : 1.203
AERO
Rear : 20 ( MAX )
Brake Balance:
8/8 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/6, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.
Recommended setting for DS3 user :
Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 8/8 brake balance as starting point.
Notes :
BMW M3 GTS, with 444HP/450PS, 1530kg. The replica is built upon request, I researched BMW M forums, press releases, car reviews and consulting owners of M3 via forum.
Suspension damper settings are adapted from real life setup and KW recommended setup, use these to your preferences. Try them all, and see which one works best for given track and tire used. Personally I used winding/twisty setup. Improve Body Rigidity is optional, I suggest to install it only when you feel the car is too loose as it makes is a bit more responsive but tighter.
The replica uses comfort soft tires in order to replicate lap time accurately. The M3 GTS managed to lap Nurb GP/F in easily consistent 2:21s just like real life lap time record.
I decided to combine 6th and 7th into one, the replica uses real life 7th for 6th. Please read the notes on gear ratio section for explanation. Shift up from 5th to 6th on redline.
When tested at Nordschleife, the car managed sub 8 minutes with ease on comfort soft tire, so it should be able to replicate real life lap record easily.
Use the brakes to rotate on entry and throttle to steer the car one exit
UPDATE 1.16 : Updated alignment, toe and camber.
ENJOY
BMW E92 M3 GTS
Tuned to replicate BMW E92 M3 GTS based on M3 Coupe '07
Comfort Soft to Sports Medium
CAR : BMW M3 Coupe '07
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Medium
Specs
Horsepower: 444 HP / 450 PS at 7800 RPM
Torque : 325.5 ft-lb at 4100 RPM
Power Limiter at : 96.1%
Weight: 1530 kg
Ballast : 58 kg
Ballast Position : -9
Weight Distribution : 50 / 50 - real life 50.8/49.2 reflected in ballast position.
Performance Points: 506
GT AUTO
Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( INSTALLED ) - OPTIONAL - the real car has chassis reinforcement and track spec roll cage
Aero Kits Type A
Rear Wing : Generic Wing Type C
Wheels : +1 Inch Up - BBS RE-MG in Black Matte / GT6 Matte 008
Car Paint : Hugger Orange ( from Chevrolet Camaro Z28 '69 Premium )
Tuning Parts Installed :
Sports Exhaust
Isometric Exhaust Manifold
Twin Plate Clutch
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
Adjustable LSD
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weigh Reduction Stage 1
Suspension - KW Club Sport M3 GTS Coilover
Front, Rear
Ride Height: 90 82
Spring Rate: 9.07 14.27
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 4 4
Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.6 ( Front : 0.8 - 2.5, Rear : 1.6 - 2.1 )
Toe Angle: 0.06 0.12 ( Front : 0.03 - 0.20, Rear : 0.10 - 0.20 )
Alternative Damper Setup for various track based/adapted from KW Club Sport Recommended Setup and real life setup :
Winding/Twisty + Bumpy Road ( Nordschleife, Touge etc )
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 4 4
Track - High Speed Stability ( Nurb GP/F, Willow Springs )
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 5 6
Track - Loose + Technical Track ( Tsukuba ) -KW Recommended Setup
Dampers (Compression): 5 5
Dampers (Extension): 6 5
Street - Cruise
Dampers (Compression): 2 2
Dampers (Extension): 2 1
LSD - 1.5way
Initial Torque : 20
Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
Braking Sensitivity: 15
DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Adapted 7 Speed Drivelogic
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed to 250kmh / 155mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 4.780
2nd 3.056
3rd 2.153
4th 1.678
5th 1.390
6th 1.000 ( the real 6th gear is omitted, 7th gear is used instead to maintain top speed )
Set Final Gear : 3.154
If wanted to lower top speed in favour of acceleration, simply replace 6th 1.000 with the real 6th ratio : 1.203
AERO
Rear : 20 ( MAX )
Brake Balance:
8/8 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/6, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.
Recommended setting for DS3 user :
Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 8/8 brake balance as starting point.
Notes :
BMW M3 GTS, with 444HP/450PS, 1530kg. The replica is built upon request, I researched BMW M forums, press releases, car reviews and consulting owners of M3 via forum.
Suspension damper settings are adapted from real life setup and KW recommended setup, use these to your preferences. Try them all, and see which one works best for given track and tire used. Personally I used winding/twisty setup. Improve Body Rigidity is optional, I suggest to install it only when you feel the car is too loose as it makes is a bit more responsive but tighter.
The replica uses comfort soft tires in order to replicate lap time accurately. The M3 GTS managed to lap Nurb GP/F in easily consistent 2:21s just like real life lap time record.
I decided to combine 6th and 7th into one, the replica uses real life 7th for 6th. Please read the notes on gear ratio section for explanation. Shift up from 5th to 6th on redline.
When tested at Nordschleife, the car managed sub 8 minutes with ease on comfort soft tire, so it should be able to replicate real life lap record easily.
Use the brakes to rotate on entry and throttle to steer the car one exit
UPDATE 1.16 : Updated alignment, toe and camber.
ENJOY
Both have been updated
- 5,161
- Massachusetts
Sweet! I will be firing up my game in a few minutes and apply the tweaks to my BMW E92 M3 GTS!
I've never used AI cars to slow down, or pushed them out of the way to get where I want to go. That's just poor driving no matter how you look at it. But, I must confess that I have been a bit lackadaisical when it came to letting the AI smash into me. When you've played the game long enough, you know when there are times that the AI is going to try cutting in front of you - even if you're doing 30mph more than them coming into a corner. Now I will apply my brakes long before and let them take that corner. I must also confess that I have bounced off walls in city tracks and tracks like Bathurst, but I've really put an end to that behavior too. No car would just continue the way they can in GT6.
I've never used AI cars to slow down, or pushed them out of the way to get where I want to go. That's just poor driving no matter how you look at it. But, I must confess that I have been a bit lackadaisical when it came to letting the AI smash into me. When you've played the game long enough, you know when there are times that the AI is going to try cutting in front of you - even if you're doing 30mph more than them coming into a corner. Now I will apply my brakes long before and let them take that corner. I must also confess that I have bounced off walls in city tracks and tracks like Bathurst, but I've really put an end to that behavior too. No car would just continue the way they can in GT6.
- 1,370
- Laval, Canada
- OutbackV6
Your right, that was poor driving any way you look at it
, unless of course your objective was to win at any price 
. I guess I was racing like when I was playing hockey, except there was no referee to give me a 2 minute penalty for roughing . I'm a bit more mellow now and concentrate more on beating my best times than all else 
, but sometimes when the full moon comes out, and the cold north wind whispers the calling of the wild 
..............................................
- 5,161
- Massachusetts
Actually, I have to take some of my comments back. I'm sure I probably DID push some AI cars out of the way in my early days of GT6. I was a complete newbie to gaming like this (God, I wish I could just say "sim") and I did try to win at any cost. Once I figured out that my car was practically indestructible, I'm sure I drove like it was a tank in some races...especially races that I was struggling with.Your right, that was poor driving any way you look at it
Still, I think I took a more mature stance fairly soon in my GT6 career. I always figured if I didn't learn how to drive "properly" and treat the AI cars with respect, I would only develop horrible habits that would be impossible to avoid if and when I started racing with real people. I really did not want to be labelled "that guy who drives like a d1ck!" by my peers.
The funny thing is, I almost never, ever actually "race" in Gran Turismo. I'm talking about against real people. I do my A-Spec races against the AI and occasionally I'll take a replica tune out for a Career Mode race or three, but other than that, it's a lot of solo driving.
- 5,161
- Massachusetts
@Ridox2JZGTE, I have a question for you, if you don't mind. When I see something like this in your tune:
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.6 ( Front : 0.8 - 2.5, Rear : 1.6 - 2.1 )
Toe Angle: 0.06 0.12 ( Front : 0.03 - 0.20, Rear : 0.10 - 0.20 )
Are you telling me that Front 2.0 and Rear 1.6 are the camber values of the tune, but Front 0.8-2.5 and Rear 1.6-2.1 are also an acceptable range if we choose to modify the camber? The same question applies for the Toe Angle.
In this example (its from your E92 M3 GTS, by the way), are the 2.0 & 1.6 camber values supposed to represent "stock" camber values? I only ask these questions because I know you are trying to recreate these cars as closely as possible to how they are setup in real life, but I also know that A) Sometimes you can't use the exact stock values (like with spring rate, sometimes) and/or B) Sometimes you have to make slight tweaks to the actual real life values because you're stuck trying to get things to behave properly in the strange world of Polyphony Digital's Physics. 
So yeah...to summarize, the values I put in bold, are they there just to comfort us if we want more or less camber on our tires that it would still be in an acceptable range? I hope I've been clear and you all can understand my questions. If not, feel free to drag me out behind the barn and shoot me.
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.6 ( Front : 0.8 - 2.5, Rear : 1.6 - 2.1 )
Toe Angle: 0.06 0.12 ( Front : 0.03 - 0.20, Rear : 0.10 - 0.20 )
Are you telling me that Front 2.0 and Rear 1.6 are the camber values of the tune, but Front 0.8-2.5 and Rear 1.6-2.1 are also an acceptable range if we choose to modify the camber? The same question applies for the Toe Angle.
In this example (its from your E92 M3 GTS, by the way), are the 2.0 & 1.6 camber values supposed to represent "stock" camber values? I only ask these questions because I know you are trying to recreate these cars as closely as possible to how they are setup in real life, but I also know that A) Sometimes you can't use the exact stock values (like with spring rate, sometimes) and/or B) Sometimes you have to make slight tweaks to the actual real life values because you're stuck trying to get things to behave properly in the strange world of Polyphony Digital's Physics.
So yeah...to summarize, the values I put in bold, are they there just to comfort us if we want more or less camber on our tires that it would still be in an acceptable range? I hope I've been clear and you all can understand my questions. If not, feel free to drag me out behind the barn and shoot me.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
@Ridox2JZGTE, I have a question for you, if you don't mind. When I see something like this in your tune:
Camber Angle: 2.0 1.6 ( Front : 0.8 - 2.5, Rear : 1.6 - 2.1 )
Toe Angle: 0.06 0.12 ( Front : 0.03 - 0.20, Rear : 0.10 - 0.20 )
Are you telling me that Front 2.0 and Rear 1.6 are the camber values of the tune, but Front 0.8-2.5 and Rear 1.6-2.1 are also an acceptable range if we choose to modify the camber? The same question applies for the Toe Angle.
In this example (its from your E92 M3 GTS, by the way), are the 2.0 & 1.6 camber values supposed to represent "stock" camber values? I only ask these questions because I know you are trying to recreate these cars as closely as possible to how they are setup in real life, but I also know that A) Sometimes you can't use the exact stock values (like with spring rate, sometimes) and/or B) Sometimes you have to make slight tweaks to the actual real life values because you're stuck trying to get things to behave properly in the strange world of Polyphony Digital's Physics.
So yeah...to summarize, the values I put in bold, are they there just to comfort us if we want more or less camber on our tires that it would still be in an acceptable range? I hope I've been clear and you all can understand my questions. If not, feel free to drag me out behind the barn and shoot me.
The values I used in the tune is starting point
I based the range of values on the factory alignment and the range M3 owners used for street and track day riving. The real M3 E92 front camber usually maxed at around -1.3 for street alignment, some go up to -1.5 to -1.9, any more may require camber plates. Most M3 owners that upgraded their springs/damper to coilover kit run more than 1.5 camber at the front when driving on the track. For the rear, the base factory alignment is -1.6 camber and can go up to more than -2.0 camber, depending on the situation ( tires, springs and location )I have read some owners said up to -2.0 front camber is possible to reduce uneven wear on the tire, some still have premature wear on the outside front tire with less than -1.9 camber ( driven on track and twisties ) With higher grip tires, the optimum camber usually hovers around -3.0 camber at the front tires, but that's real life, and in GT6 is may not work as intended without making tweaks or using sports hard or higher level tire.
For toe, the range are stock alignment range, if you want mot stable ride, simply increase both toe
or run zero toe all around if you like the way it drives.
Last edited:
Pete05
Premium
- 6,963
- Melbourne, Australia
Tuning suspension is a black art. Even the most successful teams, at the highest level, with the most talented engineers can have dramas at some meetings.
Some racetracks can change from day to day and, even morning to afternoon.
I know of teams & drivers here in Australia that have worn their own personal groove on the track surface, testing & developing what seems to be the ultimate setup only to throw the notebook in the rubbish bin on race day.
Before you even turn a spanner on the suspension components, it's possible to spook a driver in his regular car with variables like tyre pressures & track surface temperature and that's using a control tyre that everyone else has to use.
Some racetracks can change from day to day and, even morning to afternoon.
I know of teams & drivers here in Australia that have worn their own personal groove on the track surface, testing & developing what seems to be the ultimate setup only to throw the notebook in the rubbish bin on race day.
Before you even turn a spanner on the suspension components, it's possible to spook a driver in his regular car with variables like tyre pressures & track surface temperature and that's using a control tyre that everyone else has to use.
- 3,383
- Milky Way, Earth
- danbojte
Thorin Cain
Premium
- 2,296
- Glasgow
- THORIN-RAYVEN
Now I know how @TurnLeft feels 
I've not been getting alerts from here either Must be due to me not popping by for a while. 
Well, that's not strictly true. I've been sneaking around the back of the shop looking for some of your secrets.
Don't worry they're safe with me 👍 (Not really, There's a link to it on your OP)
You guys seem to have been having some fun swapping racing stories when I wasn't listening. I have to say for me it's much the same story as @ALB123 and TurnLeft. When I started on GT6 I'd managed to find some of these bad habit's emerging. I wouldn't necessarily (Didn't spell that right, just for the record
...Now, where was I?...Oh yeah!) use the AI as brakes. But I wasn't totally adverse to a desperate lunge or two up the inside when I knew I really shouldn't After all if the car can't break and I don't need to pay for repairs anyway....
I know, I should be ashamed of myself The races are a whole lot more fun when you give the AI room to do their own thing and there's usually a good battle or two to be had along the way with something a little bit faster in front. Speaking of races...
👍 Another victory chalked up It's not the prettiest car in the world but I'm sure you enjoyed the drive
I've not been getting alerts from here either Must be due to me not popping by for a while. Well, that's not strictly true.
I've been sneaking around the back of the shop looking for some of your secrets. Don't worry they're safe with me 👍 (Not really, There's a link to it on your OP
)You guys seem to have been having some fun swapping racing stories when I wasn't listening. I have to say for me it's much the same story as @ALB123 and TurnLeft. When I started on GT6 I'd managed to find some of these bad habit's emerging. I wouldn't necessarily (Didn't spell that right, just for the record
...Now, where was I?...Oh yeah!) use the AI as brakes. But I wasn't totally adverse to a desperate lunge or two up the inside when I knew I really shouldn't After all if the car can't break and I don't need to pay for repairs anyway....I know, I should be ashamed of myself
The races are a whole lot more fun when you give the AI room to do their own thing and there's usually a good battle or two to be had along the way with something a little bit faster in front. Speaking of races...Well done @danbojte
👍 Another victory chalked up It's not the prettiest car in the world but I'm sure you enjoyed the drive
- 3,383
- Milky Way, Earth
- danbojte
Yes, thank you, @Thorin Cain . 👍 The enjoyment came especially from being able to control the car on CH tyres. It's not the prettiest, you're right but it has its own charm.
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- GTP_Orido
Reading all this makes me want to play GT6 Anyone still interested to drive a BMW M3 ( E92 ) ?
Anyone still interested to drive a BMW M3 ( E92 ) ?
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- Milky Way, Earth
- danbojte
@Ridox2JZGTE Of course, I am.
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
I got a M3 already had some work on it when made the GTS, testing with some real life laps as reference now. Got a test weight by Road & Track, a lot heavier than curb weight that most media listed. Still can beat real life laps at Tsukuba, Laguna Seca, Fuji Speedway, Big Willow and Streets of Willow. The only hurdle is lap record at Nurb GP D at 1:44.86, which seems way off for a stock M3 with factory tires ( replica about 2 seconds slower on tires used on other lap record ). Tried to investigate on the web, only found time data being listed on some site but with no supporting evidence of the actual test laps in any article, not even from AutoBild.de ( the claimed source ).
Then I found BMW M3 being notoriously fitted with non stock parts and lighter weight being tested in German magazine like SportAuto. The so called BMW rep car for testing often said to have closer to 1600kg ( more than 100kg lighter ), 19in wheel with Cup tire ( semi slick ), and Competition Package ( 10mm lower with different damper setting ) - the Comp package is unconfirmed, but it has speed limiter removal, race brake pads, and Michelin Pilot Sports Cup.
So far the M3 is very nice drive, used Tsuchiya-san and Hattori-san test drive and race as reference at Tsukuba. Very close Direct turn in, good mid corner balance, good brakes, progressive rear oversteer and 2 rear wheel slide upon LSD lock when being overdriven. Can't believe the real car spring ratio also works in similar way in GT6, which makes me believe GT6 actually taken into account the real car motion ratio, the Nissan GTR is another example, the opposite of M3 in spring rate arrangement.
Then I found BMW M3 being notoriously fitted with non stock parts and lighter weight being tested in German magazine like SportAuto. The so called BMW rep car for testing often said to have closer to 1600kg ( more than 100kg lighter ), 19in wheel with Cup tire ( semi slick ), and Competition Package ( 10mm lower with different damper setting ) - the Comp package is unconfirmed, but it has speed limiter removal, race brake pads, and Michelin Pilot Sports Cup.
So far the M3 is very nice drive, used Tsuchiya-san and Hattori-san test drive and race as reference at Tsukuba. Very close
Direct turn in, good mid corner balance, good brakes, progressive rear oversteer and 2 rear wheel slide upon LSD lock when being overdriven. Can't believe the real car spring ratio also works in similar way in GT6, which makes me believe GT6 actually taken into account the real car motion ratio, the Nissan GTR is another example, the opposite of M3 in spring rate arrangement.
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- danbojte
@Ridox2JZGTE I hope you don't alter the real life weight specs for obtaining the real life lap time...?!
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
@Ridox2JZGTE I hope you don't alter the real life weight specs for obtaining the real life lap time...?!
R&T has the weight at 1740+kg ( 52.1/47.9), this can do real life laps on CS tire, except on Nurb GP D ( 2 seconds slower ). The Autobild.de listed M3 at 1614kg (51/49). The M3 varies a lot when tested by several magazine, from 50.8/49.2 at 1679kg, to 1614kg 51/49, to 1740+kg and more than 52/48.
The gearing has also been fixed as the 6th gear is wrong, and 7 speed Drivelogic DKG also included for Tsukuba lap record ( 2 lap times, 6 MT 1:06.061 and 7 speed DKG 1:05.698 ). Laguna Seca 1:42.964, Big Willow : 1:36.920, and Streets of Willow : 1:27.670.
Found another Nurb lap time, the GP F layout, by Autobild.de, M3 with Competition Package, 19 inch wheel, Adaptive Damper ( EDC ), 10mm lower, and 7 speed DKG, timed at 2:28,23.
The 1740+kg can do Nurb GP D in 1:44.6xx, real lap 1:44.86, using SH tire. CS tire on 1614kg, would get into 1:45s.
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Can I ask you a question about your E92 M3 GTS, Ridox? How did you determine the weight of the GTS? I wasn't questioning your data, but I happened to google the car for different reasons and I started coming up with sources that all had different weight's listed. I can't imagine how frustrating building these replicas must be for you - ya just wanna get some basic information, like the car's weight, and 5 sources all have 5 different values listed for Curb Weight. I mean, give me a break!
Here is a link that supposedly posted the information from the official BMW press release regarding the GTS. If you scroll down to the paragraph: "Aerodynamics: Optimised components with variable adjustment", you will see that it lists the weight as 1530kg. (CLICK ME) At the very top of that same post, however, the OP wrote a summary that he called "The Facts" and he lists the weight as 1490kg! WTF?!
Then there is Wikipedia. If you check out their section on the E92 M3 GTS you'll see that they claim the GTS is 300 pounds less than the standard M3. Well, if you look over to the right they just happen to list the base M3's weight as 1,580 kg (3,483 lb). Okay, so let's subtract 300 lbs from 3483 lbs. That leaves us with 3183 lbs or 1443.78451 kg. We can round that up to 1444kg.
Finally, Car & Driver lists the weight as 3550 lbs. That would be 1610 kg!
To summarize, we have 1530 kg, 1490 kg, 1444 kg and 1610kg.
EDIT: I just realized you have your e92 M3 GTS set for 1530kg as well, which would reflect that press release I mentioned above. I apologize...I had my '07 M3 loaded in game when I wrote this post and had a weight listed that was very different. I should just delete this entire thread, but I figured I would leave it up.
Here is a link that supposedly posted the information from the official BMW press release regarding the GTS. If you scroll down to the paragraph: "Aerodynamics: Optimised components with variable adjustment", you will see that it lists the weight as 1530kg. (CLICK ME) At the very top of that same post, however, the OP wrote a summary that he called "The Facts" and he lists the weight as 1490kg! WTF?!
Then there is Wikipedia. If you check out their section on the E92 M3 GTS you'll see that they claim the GTS is 300 pounds less than the standard M3. Well, if you look over to the right they just happen to list the base M3's weight as 1,580 kg (3,483 lb). Okay, so let's subtract 300 lbs from 3483 lbs. That leaves us with 3183 lbs or 1443.78451 kg. We can round that up to 1444kg.
Finally, Car & Driver lists the weight as 3550 lbs. That would be 1610 kg!
To summarize, we have 1530 kg, 1490 kg, 1444 kg and 1610kg.
EDIT: I just realized you have your e92 M3 GTS set for 1530kg as well, which would reflect that press release I mentioned above. I apologize...I had my '07 M3 loaded in game when I wrote this post and had a weight listed that was very different. I should just delete this entire thread, but I figured I would leave it up.
