RIDOX Replica Garage-In Memory of TurnLeft-GT40,300ZX,F430,TVR,AEM S2000,Cizeta,TransAm Doug Nash

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Ridox2JZGTE, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. Thorin Cain

    Thorin Cain Premium

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    Cool, I wasn't sure if it being higher than the drive side would be right or not :) I'll have to go and do some more research to find the other details needed. :cheers:
     
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  2. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    All 3 has been updated. Hopefully the Z06 has less understeer now, tested at Big Willow on CS tire, 7 speed corrected ratio, flat floor, racing brakes 3/4 BB, low 1:24s.
     
  3. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Damn transmission bug :irked: Hurry up PD & get a big can of bugspray :D

    I can't remember which magazine it was, Car and Driver or Road + Track but, they recently re-tested the Z07 after finding the rear end alignment was faulty.
    The test driver, not sure if it was Andy Pilgrim but he has history with GM/Chevrolet, was alarmed at the nervousness of the rear end traction in the original test and reported this to GM and they subsequently checked & diagnosed the problem.
    At the re-test, same driver reported a much safer level of traction and I remember him commenting that you won't find understeer in the C7 Z06/7 thanks to the grip available from the front end.
    As for the brakes, the Z06 definitely has better brake package than the standard C7. Unfortunately, thanks to PD, if we upgrade to the Racing Brakes, we loose the progressiveness and feel when using Comfort or Sports rubber :rolleyes:

    [Edit]
    I've just seen the updated specs in the post above. It was on the next page....
    I will have to try these revisions when I open the garage door later tonight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
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  4. danbojte

    danbojte

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    @Pete05
    Racing Brakes - Racing Tyres. ;)
     
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  5. danbojte

    danbojte

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    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
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  6. danbojte

    danbojte

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    Built from the first day, but didn't drive it yet... :nervous:
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
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  7. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    That was from MotorTrend test ( Randy Pobst was the driver ) :) The retest did 1:25.00 lap at Big Willow. The understeer in GT6 is more due to the different tire size ( stagger ), if you look at the official PDF file linked by alb123 in his review, the front tires is wider than base Stingray 245 ( front z06 at 285 is the rear tire of base z51 stingray :crazy: ) , the rear z06 is even more wider at 335.

    I have added flat floor and racing brakes, rest assured the added downforce also helped the braking traction. The car is still heavy to turn at higher speed, but we need to look at the speeds we are cornering against real life. What sort of agility we want from cornering at above 60mph on street legal rubber ?

    If the CS fitted tire can do 1:24s with ease ( flat floor fitted ), I think we already have much higher cornering speed than what's possible in real life lap :p If only we have video with telemetry ( G's ) :grumpy: for comparison.

    I'm now on 1.17, officially bugged :lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2015
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  8. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Glad you know the article/ test I was referring to :) :tup:
    The wider tyres of the Z06 are another reason PD should let us upgrade to wider rims & rubber as you've mentioned in the past. It would also be a bonus if we could alter the rolling circumference of the rims/tyres. I'm not asking for much am I :p
    The question of real life versus a laptime without danger in the gaming world is precisely why I do a sighting lap at half pace and then the next lap is against the stopwatch with enough in reserve so as not to render it invalidated from going off track. Sure we can pound around a given track all day searching for the ultimate lap but that raises the question: would you drive that hard in real life risking it all for those last tenths?
     
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  9. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    When I drive for replicating real life lap, I usually set a pace limit, you will notice this on my replays. I usually keep the braking distance within reasonable level and having ABS 0 also keeps it more grounded to reality ( avoiding lock up ). For corner speed, I always try to maintain as clean as possible, slide at minimum avoid exploiting the GT6 tire model flaws, and treat the car like it was real, crash or off track, then it's over. Sometimes I also looked at G's value when cornering, did I pushed it too hard or the tire is too grippy ? Then for exits, I usually exits as calm as possible, often quite late on giving the beans. Please download the Z06 Big Willow replay, you will see how much pace I ran and how much I pushed the car. I can push harder in game for sure compared to if I actually drive the Z06 at Big Willow, the real question is, will I choose to be as fearless or not ?

    There is also a trend of me doing the lap time on 1st lap, cold tires, this is to give some room for when the car is driven on tire wear, as with tire wear, lap times usually about half second to 1 second slower than no tire wear warm tire. And with cold tire, I will have to be more careful not to push the tire too hard and slipping, usually the second lap the tire will be warmer and have more grip/easier to push and one can easily raise the pace without knowing. Now if only I can do test lap offline with tire wear :(

    Having driven IRL for more than 20 years, and in game for longer :) I can alter my pace easily. For pushing hard IRL, let's say back in my college days, I used to be "street racer". I used to lived in Sydney for more than 10 years, and spent most of them driving imports. Bankstown was my usual playground at midnight, I lost count how many times I have riding the edge and went over it too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
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  10. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    I've been asking myself the same question, and I would never drive IRL like I drive in GT6, I've been hit a few times by cars and there is a survival fear that's always present in my mind now :lol:, but in GT6 my instinct knows there is no danger and I can go beyond what I would normally do. :crazy:
    :cheers:
     
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  11. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Ah yes, youthful exuberance and the 'it'll never happen to me attitude' is unfortunately reflected in the road toll for those under 25yo. There's no substitute for experience.
    I got my personal warning to slow down & take it easy after loosing control of a friend's car on a section of road known as The Black Spur about 90 minutes east of Melbourne. The road was damp and I thought I was well within my & the car's limits until I hit a patch of black ice causing the car to rotate a lot further than planned. After running out of steering lock, I clutched, waited for it to go 180 degrees and locked the brakes and that resulted in another 180 degrees pointing us in the original direction of travel. This was all done without leaving the tarmac but I had to ask myself the hard questions. Was it skill or luck? What if someone was coming the other way? What if I needed more room than I had and what if I permanently injured or, worse still, killed my mate driving his beloved car? The answers to these questions were, in order: probably the later, two badly bent cars with occupants needing hospital, contact with large trees that always win the argument and time getting to know my big new cell mate Bubba :nervous:
    My advice: If you like driving fast & the thrill of speed, join a car club and save those passions for the racetrack where it's a lot safer for everyone. I've spent the best days of my life behind the wheel of a car with a number on the side & wearing a helmut :) :tup:
     
  12. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    I understand what you said :) The wild days was over long ago, I did have several track day experience around the same period of time when I was there. I could write a lot of stories of my younger days but they should not be something I'm proud of.
     
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  13. ALB123

    ALB123

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    @Pete05 I also remember the article you're talking about. You're 100% correct about the real life Z06 having the wrong alignment applied when they first tested the car. Like you, I also judge Ridox's replica builds at a reasonable pace, not at the limit where I'n hanging on for dear life. That's why I usually take my cars out to La Sierra for a few laps first. I've got 17 miles per lap to play around with the car. I do all sorts of things. I'll drive 60 mph in top gear and floor it...see how well it pulls. I'll drive 60 mph and see how it pulls on a reasonable downshift. I take corners at street speed limit speeds, quick speeds and then "you're going to lose your license if you get pulled over" speeds. :D The whole reason I love Ridox's builds is because I'm looking for cars that provide me with character similar to the real world version. Everything I complained about in my first post on the Z06 are things beyond Ridox's control. I was just surprised that the car drove the way that it did considering he is usually able to build cars practically perfectly (in my eyes). Again, I know he did everything in his power to make the Z06 great for us to drive. And maybe it's just me. Maybe others will love the way it drives. Based on the reviews I've read and the video reviews I've watched, I just think that the real Z06 characteristics are much different than our GT6 replica, which bummed me out because I've been looking forward to this build for a long time. :)

    @Ridox2JZGTE I apologize for not recognizing that you DID mention the addition of a Flat Floor in the Notes section of the Z06 build. To be honest, I am guilty of often skipping over the "Notes" section of your build. I get so freakin' excited to drive the car that once I get finished setting it up, I rush off to La Sierra to start evaluating the car. I apologize for bringing up an issue that you already addressed in the OP. Can I ask you a question, Ridox? What are YOUR thoughts on the Z06 build? Do you think I am being TOO critical of the build? Do any of my issues have merit?

    @danbojte I agree with you. Racing Brakes should be saved for racing tires, 99.99% of the time. I only threw this out as a suggestion because I was looking to duplicate the incredibly exceptional performance of the Z06 brakes. Perhaps the brakes are actually fine the way that they are and most of my other cars just have brakes that are way too good for the cars they are on? I will admit that I didn't collect any data when testing the Z06 brakes. I went by feel and then even compared other cars to see how well those cars stop in comparison. If you have a chance, in the next couple of days, please try to give the Z06 a few minutes of your time. I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say. :tup:
     
  14. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Don't worry when giving good criticism, if not for you, I won't improve the car :) I have edited the Z06, and now I'm on 1.17 :( the 7 speed correct ratio is gone :grumpy:

    For brakes, the racing brakes on 3/4 BB seems to be a bit bitey but fine when I drove it at Nurb 24H and Big Willow on CS tire.

    Flat floor will add more understeer as the majority of the aero is added on the back, I have to stiffen the damper and ARB to compensate. The LSD preload also has been lowered to 18 to freed up the car when on/off throttle.

    The original replica tune was deemed good enough for me as I used Tsukuba ( C6 ZR1 ) and Big Willow lap performance ( time and handling ) as benchmark. It did 1:02s easily without much fuss and the stability on the front end was intended to keep the car stable at Tsukuba.

    If we have video record ( inboard cam ), we can see how much neutrality the car has on higher speed. Car reviews can be tricky things too, often journalists gave very good praise comparing to the much more inferior cars. So the no understeer might be great compared to the Nissan GTR ( MotorTrend comparison test at Big Willow )

    Anyway, I look forward for feedback on the new update Z06, I'm here to improve it :p
     
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  15. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    @ALB123 you mention La Sierra & driving at speeds that will put your licence at risk. They have laws here that will see your car crushed at the wreckers if you drive fast enough. 3 strikes and it's tin can time :crazy:
    I've only been driving Sierra for 4 days now and I'm still having a wonderful time *sarcasm dodging the erratic AI in the NISMO GT-R :mad: :banghead:.
    So hard to see through the spray of the cars in front :eek:
    It's a great road for replicating a nice drive in the countryside though :tup:
     
  16. danbojte

    danbojte

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    I wasn't in the mood these days to master the monster :D (I felt too tired after work).
    I'll take it out for sure, but most probably it will happen through the weekend. :cheers:
     
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  17. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Here is the video of the 1st vs test Z06 against NISMO GTR, notice how the Z06 launch, take corners and slide on Pilot Cup 2 tires ( Z07 pack ) :D

    The Z06 is a little bit lighter than Car & Drive test, 1600kg, 3527lb. 15kg difference.



    The Z06 went a bit wide entering the left up hill corner after the 2nd long right curve ( around 12:40+s ) Randy said the car can be pretty loose, it was more due to the rear caster alignment being wrongly setup. The Z06 has rear caster adjust-ability, rarely possible on road cars.

    And we have G reading as well side by side lap :D awesome :p

    Now compare the replay I have provided ( speed in corners ) to the Randy lap :D The 2nd corner long right curve is a must to watch :) The last few high speed corners are not accurate though, the CS tire in GT6 and the lack of aero drag makes the Z06 replica much faster there.

    The lap time also shows, 1:27.10, most of the time lost was on the high speed section and some corners where Randy has to correct the steering ( unstable rear ) due to the misalignment of rear caster.

    It will be interesting if there's another video for 1:25.00 lap, I'm sure the replay and video would be much closer on the last half of the track.

    I also built the Nissan NISMO GTR replica, tested on Big Willow too, 1:25.7 lap target :p Very similar performance in cornering/speeds to the video.

    The Z06 straight speed is strange, it barely touch 145mph on finish line ... if it did 1:25s, most of the time must have been gained from higher top speed on high speed curve and main straight. Could it be the car has less output than it should ? MotorTrend article I think mentioned about oil temp rising even after 1 lap at 350 degree.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
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  18. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    To anyone who are testing the new Z06 update, for even better road holding with flat floor, you can try even stiffer damper overall :

    Dampers (Compression): 6 4
    Dampers (Extension): 8 7

    The setup above should drive well given the amount of load exerted on the tires from added downforce. The 8 AT ratio also highly recommended for 1.17.
     
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  19. danbojte

    danbojte

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    No Isometric Exhaust Manifold.
    Don't touch the Final Gear at the end of the transmission setup.

    :cheers:
     
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  20. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    I fixed the exhaust manifold, for the final gear, I added 1.17 on the 2nd custom transmission setup, the top one is the original method from before 1.17 :) Thank for the correction.

    To all who watched the Z06 vs NISMO GTR video, watch the end credits, Randy said a lot about the Z06 :D
     
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  21. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I'm very happy that you don't take anything I might say about the car that's negative as a personal attack, Ridox, because I certainly do not mean to imply anything negative about YOUR abilities. While I already knew you wouldn't take my comments personally, I just feel the need to explain myself because I don't want anyone reading this thread to think I'm attacking your abilities. All the regulars of Ridox Replica Garage know how much I love your builds!! :D

    So, you just updated to v1.17? You poor thing...Now you've been infected with the "Tranny Bug" as well. :mad: I really hope that they plan on "fixing" it. I say it that way because if you think about it, there isn't technically anything wrong about the way we have to set the transmissions now. It's just different from what we are used to, so we don't like it and we want it set back to the old way. I think they should change it back, or at least fix the part where the transmission goes back to completely stock if you adjust the Final Gear after moving the Max Speed slider. That's just silly.

    To be honest, I really wish you didn't make any changes to your Z06 (Z07 Package) Replica Tune. So far, I am the only person who has come forward with any complaints. Perhaps I am a complete idiot and I just don't know what I'm talking about. What if these new changes actually make the car worse for other people?? :eek: Last night, I installed the Flat Floor and took it for a rip around Nurburgring GP/D as well as La Sierra. The Flat Floor definitely improves what I thought was unrealistic acceleration when driving near mid-triple digits. Unfortunately, I didn't make ANY other changes to the setup and you're right Ridox, the understeer persisted. I was so tired at that point, I couldn't even tell if the understeer got better or worse with the Flat Floor. A few laps and I had to go to bed, so I will test more - hopefully sometime today. I was 2 seconds faster, per lap, around GP/D with your Corvette C7.R Replica Build (557PP) than with the Z06 w/Z07 Package (599PP). That Flat Floor affects the PP level drastically!

    Will some of you regulars drive this damn car and let us know what you think? :mad: :D :lol:
     
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  22. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    I still have the old setup save, no worries :) you can compare the old and new on separate tab, the flat floor will make the old setup feel softer and sluggish. The new setup and even stiffer damper that I posted above will make it sharper.

    Have you watched the video above entirely ? You can see the lap at Big Willow on 2nd corner long right curve, he hold the speed there in similar ways to the replica :)
     
  23. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I have seen the video. The day it posted to YouTube my brother texted me, we both watched it and then spent an hour talking about it on the phone. He's in the market for a new sports car. He's very interested in the Z06, but he has quite a few concerns as well. I think he is going to end up with a Porsche 911 Carrera S. I will have to re-watch the video and pay more attention to the little details. :tup:
     
  24. danbojte

    danbojte

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    You're right, sorry. I saw the second version but I still believed that it will reset if you change it. Until now, when I checked it after reading your answer and thought: what if you (me) are wrong? :) :tup:

    Oh, and I changed the gauges because I already have a huge speedometer and tachometer also. ;)

    Edit: And sadly I was right. It will reset if you touch it again. :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
  25. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    The 2nd set with 1.17 label has 3.800 final set at the beginning and not touched again, does it stick ? The 1st set is for when the bug get fixed, anytime now :lol:
     
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  26. danbojte

    danbojte

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    @Ridox2JZGTE
    :lol: All I wanted to tell you was to delete from the 2nd version's end, "Set final gear to 3.800". Because if you make any "set" to the Final gear at that step, you'll lose the gearbox. :lol: :crazy:
     
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  27. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    I must be getting slow :lol: I will fix that as to not confused people. When the bug get fixed, I will be so happy :grumpy:
     
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  28. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I was just driving the Corvette Z06 w/Z07 Package. The car is drastically better, in my opinion! :D :tup: It still understeers, but it's not even close to what it was when I dove the first build. I've been working on ways to deal with the understeer and still maintain good pace. I think I'm just about there...

    This build was almost 2 full seconds faster around Nurburging GP/D compared to the first build. That's no joke... I also took it around La Sierra. It felt beautiful on that road. Grip feels so good with the SH tires. Considering the real Z06 (Z07 Pckg) comes with Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires, which are arguably the stickiest road tire available, I could see SH or possibly even SM tires being a nice fit for this Corvette.

    While I very much appreciate the changes you made to the Corvette, Ridox, I still kind of feel bad that you decided to change your settings based solely on my silly complaints. I really wish some of the other regulars could have driven the car and reported how they felt the car behaved with the original settings. That is, unless you also felt the complaints I had were legitimate..maybe you also felt the massive understeer, poor braking and too much pull above 120-130 MPH.
     
  29. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Add little toe out at the front may help and have you used the even higher damper I posted separately ? If you want to try, increase rear spring rate to 14.73 or 15.18 :p This should improve the understeer, but might be bouncy :lol:

    Don't feel bad, if I can improve the car, I will do it. The old damper and ARB is too soft for flat floor, so unless anyone want to drive it without flat floor, there's not much use on softer damper and ARB.

    The understeer was intentional, but I felt it was just right, most likely as I don't use ABS, I didn't get the push too much. You can easily see it on my big willow lap.

    The braking part, did you notice big difference in distance with racing brakes ? When I tested racing brakes at big willow 1st turn, the braking point is only slightly improved.

    For the high speed acceleration, as I wrote on the note, flat floor would immensely help getting realistic performance at high speed.
     
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  30. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    It seems I definitely need to drive this again, I just haven't been able to find the time.
    I'm wondering if the 7.24.xxx around the Nordschleife I managed with the original settings (and the flat floor I didn't know I had fitted already) is a decent time? Especially if you say the dampers would be too soft and the revisions you've made will provide more front end grip.
    Just to clarify, do you think the 7MT or the 8AT version would be faster?