SCC Old Timer Event - Ferrari P330 P4 - Sunday Nov 22, 2009 - *Event Complete *

[jasonb1985]

Glad somebody agrees with me.

 

[Alan_G]

Oh I definitely agree with you too JasonB! There are very serious issues ruining the online play for many people.

The main problem from what I can see is bad 'prediction'. Braking is a big problem. Commonly when entering braking points there are big collisions between two cars as the computer predicts a user to brake late causing the user to run-into a car in front, and when the user's current co-ordinates are transmitted and updated the next time, the position is suddenly adjusted to the real position as viewed by the user (leaving someone else in a mess in the gravel trap).

Maybe they're replying too heavily on prediction code. It very easy to see their implementation when racing on oval circuits. Commonly, you can see a nearby driver go into the wall. And a few moments later, the car appears in the real position further on in the track (sometimes IN another car, causing a huge crash). Typically, the prediction period seems to go on for up to 10 seconds from what I've seen. This is not always the case, so it must be just in some instances when there is some kind of network issue, that a few seconds of this prediction thing is brought into play.

EDIT: They said on their forum that the new patch will feature much improved prediction code. So it better work!

 

[jasonb1985]

Makes sense.

 

[chilledant]

Hi guys chilli.

i dont often share my set up's but here goe's for the p4 only.

Front camber -2.8
rear camber -2.2
toe front +.15 degrees
rear toe + .08 degrees
dampers hard front rear soft
springs soft all round.
roll bar hard front soft rear.
ride hight +3 front so the car can steer. and + 6 for traction out corners rear.

i have proved this set up ask hairy dave and turnup(direk) my times are cool.

i can do rivera wet mid 1,54's, spa low 2.30's, mount treblaaaaaat low 1,39's ok my nurberg are not that good but its NOT MY FAVORITE TRACK. i can do low 2,08's with loads of small mistakes,

i think it will be a very intresting event,, rivera will be difficult to over take..

if you wonder about my toe don't it helps for braking..

guys i hope my flight from JO'BERG is not delayed as i am from africa and its always possiable..

i must say sorry for my spelling i don't have a very big IQ its the sieze of a peanut LOL but i can work with my hands my girlfriend says LOL again
Thats why i am a technician... HA HA HAA.. see you all tonight..

Chilli.... The master of Ants....

 

[jjaisli]

Nope, my internet connection is VERY VERY good. Nat type 2, about 12-16Mbps download, 2Mbps upload, and I usually get ping times of around 10-20 MS. This is the result i get from Speedtest.net when I test against the nearest server.

There is nothing wrong on my end. Every other game i play is smooth as silk.

Jason, I see we both have the same service provider (Optimum Online) so if the two of us are playing against each other, it should be fine. But keep in mind, especially in larger lobbies, the person with the slowest ping speed must also be factored into account. We're probably great with a ping speed of 15~25 ms to each other. But somebody in Portugal may be 100~150ms and South Africa 200~250 and Australia 250~350. Or worse. And they become the 'weakest link' so to speak. If other cars were laggy, most likely they were people who were 'far' away from you.

That said, Eutechnyx knows there's a problem. And they claim to have found a solution. (Let's hope so). And I'm very eager to give it a try. Supercar Challenge is great in the sense that it provides (nearly) all the options and features we could ever want in on-line play, but unfortunately, it doesn't handle lag anywhere near as well as say, NFS:Shift, which I consider the benchmark for smooth, solid, on-line action. (For the record, I'm talking about LAG only--there's nothing smooth about the WAY people on-line play shift--Kubica88 x 100).

FWIW, even though I have a NAT 2 connection as well, for the event (and for the lobby I opened last night), I bought a 100' ethernet cable and plugged it directly from my PS3 into my modem to give myself a NAT1 connection. For everybody's benefit.

Oh, and don't be put off using the 6-speed shifter. I use the H-pattern shifter on my G25 racing these older cars. Trust me, so long as the car has slowed down sufficiently to accept the gear, there are benefits shifting from say, 4th directly to 1st for tight hairpins. In time you'll probably enjoy it more.

Edit: Jason, just as a point, the lag issues on the oval tracks are especially horrible. Until the game is patched, I won't race on-line on ovals. Or let's say, I won't choose them in any lobbies I create because of the problems. Other tracks aren't nearly as bad.

 

[jjaisli]

I would guess I was involved in more collisions last night than in the entire last year of playing FC. Admittedly, I only just started playing SCC, so I'm not sure of my braking points yet, even on the tracks that I know well from FC, but between being hit myself & crashing into other drivers, I spent a lot of time spinning around, rather than going forwards! I think I need a lot more practice before I'm ready to race competitively online, & (no disrespect intended) I think quite a few other drivers need more practice too. I really think you need to be at the point where you're consistently lapping within a second of your fastest time & preferably everyone needs to be within a couple of seconds a lap of each other, in order to sustain decent racing - I was more like 5 or 6 seconds off the pace.

Indeed! Mount Tremblant is a classic example. I'm assuming from your perspective I must have driven off the track or spun in front of you when I passed you around the outside of the last tight corner (with the uphill braking). But from my perspective you touched my rear end and nerfed me off! Knowing you to be a fair driver, I assumed if you had thought you touched me, you would have waited for me. Unless of course, you now consider these type of tactics acceptable from all the time you spent playing NFS:Shift. Remember Biggles, there's NO points for doing that in this game. But I will give you credit, on the following lap, you managed to make your car "wider" than I thought possible. For just a brief moment, when I was trying hard to find a way around you on the following lap, I really did consider returning the 'favor' But I was pretty sure it was just a lag issue and remained calm.

 

[Hun200kmh]

...

(For the record, I'm talking about LAG only--there's nothing smooth about the WAY people on-line play shift--Kubica88 x 100).
...

Kubica88 went to a rehab program last night and passed successfuly. Still on probation, but I will accept him in my lobbies.

Oh, and don't be put off using the 6-speed shifter. I use the H-pattern shifter on my G25 racing these older cars. Trust me, so long as the car has slowed down sufficiently to accept the gear, there are benefits shifting from say, 4th directly to 1st for tight hairpins. In time you'll probably enjoy it more.

Cheater ...

 

[jjaisli]

It's contrary to what I heard and from MORE than one person who was in your lobby last night. Maybe you should reconsider, unless you followed behind and watched him the whole race. What Kubica88 did and has done repeatedly is completely unacceptable. If he wants to race, he better apply for a new PSN ID and start over. I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. MORE than once. And never again. It's one thing to be a lousy driver. It's another to wait on the side of the road and drive the wrong way and smash people. Over and over again. NEVER EVER AGAIN.

Mario, if you want to race Kubica88, you'll be doing it alone. If I enter one of your lobbies and he's there, I will leave immediately. And, I recommend EVERYBODY else do the same. If he comes into one of my lobbies, he will be booted. Immediately. If he manages to sneak in, and I'm leading the race, I will stop, return to the lobby and boot him. End of story.

 

[drivatar]

Prediction code and collision handling are problematic, but I think the bigger problem, at least in the last event, is a desynchronized time base so that the world view is too different for every player. It can be seen from the beginning when cars start early.

 

[Biggles]

Wow, I think you're trying to put a very positive spin on all this Jeff (pun intended)!

No, I didn't see or feel that I touched your car at MT. Mario stopped after rear-ending me (probably my fault anyway, because I braked too hard) at MT, but other than that, I can't remember anybody waiting after a punt, & honestly, it would have been a bit pointless, as there were so many collisions, if everyone stopped after hitting someone else last night, we would never have finished a race!

Look, the only way to have decent online racing is for everyone to have as their FIRST priority (just as IRL): NO COLLISIONS! In other words, forget about driving as fast as you think you can - if there is a danger of colliding with another car - BACK OFF! Because nobody was really following this principle, the racing descended into general mayhem. Eventually, with more experience, everyone will tighten up their driving, & close aggressive racing may become possible.

However, at this point I don't see how SCC online represents an improvement over FC, since:

1) Lag, while perhaps not as consistent as in FC, is still very much an issue, at least with larger lobbies.

2) The collision physics seem to be far more exaggerated than in FC, which is not a good thing for online racing.

In hundreds of online FC races, I never experienced anything remotely like what was going on last night.

I know I've missed the other races, but I've got to imagine that some of the slower & easier cars to drive, would represent a better bet for online competition at this point. In the meantime, I've got to practice on my own, a lot more, before I'm ready for prime-time.

 

[jjaisli]

Wow, I think you're trying to put a very positive spin on all this Jeff (pun intended)!

No, I didn't see or feel that I touched your car at MT. Mario stopped after rear-ending me (probably my fault anyway, because I braked too hard) at MT, but other than that, I can't remember anybody waiting after a punt, & honestly, it would have been a bit pointless, as there were so many collisions, if everyone stopped after hitting someone else last night, we would never have finished a race!

Look, the only way to have decent online racing is for everyone to have as their FIRST priority (just as IRL): NO COLLISIONS! In other words, forget about driving as fast as you think you can - if there is a danger of colliding with another car - BACK OFF! Because nobody was really following this principle, the racing descended into general mayhem. Eventually, with more experience, everyone will tighten up their driving, & close aggressive racing may become possible.

However, at this point I don't see how SCC online represents an improvement over FC, since:

1) Lag, while perhaps not as consistent as in FC, is still very much an issue, at least with larger lobbies.

2) The collision physics seem to be far more exaggerated than in FC, which is not a good thing for online racing.

In hundreds of online FC races, I never experienced anything remotely like what was going on last night.

I know I've missed the other races, but I've got to imagine that some of the slower & easier cars to drive, would represent a better bet for online competition at this point. In the meantime, I've got to practice on my own, a lot more, before I'm ready for prime-time.

Biggles, Biggles...you come late to the party, slag off on the guests and then complain about the food. What's a poor host to do.

There are clearly 'issues' with this game. But I have had races (such as the GTO event) where there was VERY little lag and some great racing ensued as a result. Take a look at the videos I posted. There was a great battle between hm66, Mario & myself at Hockenheim--a lobby with 11 cars. And look at the video of VIR. Five cars hot lapping VIR with <.25 between each of us.

But in fairness, I take it from the comments made, things last night at the 'back of the pack' (cough) were considerably worse than in the clear running up front. I could see looking at the map in both races at Riviera, there was considerable overlapping of cars as one looked down the field. And it's not an easy track to pass.

Personally, I love Riviera. It has such a wonderful combination of slow corners, fast corners, up and downhill--everything one could ask for. But I think there should be a higher penalty for coming in contact with the armco. It's possible for a wild and unwieldy driver to go (literally) wall riding and get away with it. It's not any faster but you could potentially be quick enough that others have a hard time making a clean pass.

Tell me, was there any noticeable difference from my lobby as opposed to Mario's which I assume you joined later. I know you left at some point but I can't remember exactly when and where.

 

[Hun200kmh]

It's contrary to what I heard and from MORE than one person who was in your lobby last night. Maybe you should reconsider, unless you followed behind and watched him the whole race. What Kubica88 did and has done repeatedly is completely unacceptable. If he wants to race, he better apply for a new PSN ID and start over. I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. MORE than once. And never again. It's one thing to be a lousy driver. It's another to wait on the side of the road and drive the wrong way and smash people. Over and over again. NEVER EVER AGAIN.

Mario, if you want to race Kubica88, you'll be doing it alone. If I enter one of your lobbies and he's there, I will leave immediately. And, I recommend EVERYBODY else do the same. If he comes into one of my lobbies, he will be booted. Immediately. If he manages to sneak in, and I'm leading the race, I will stop, return to the lobby and boot him. End of story.

Kubica88 will never enter a race in your lobby if you don't want it to happen. It's very simple to act as host in a way that makes 100 % safe that no undesirable enters if you don't want to.

So, yesterday I booted kub88 several times and for about 2 hours of non-stop racing. That he never had the chance to be part of.

Then he sent me a PM asking to be allowed to race. "Please" included. So I let him in, with a few words of caution. First race he entered - Mugello - I followed him the entire race. Second race, I didn't. Didn't get any complaints though. Before calling it a night I had a few words again for him, everybody could hear them.

Don't know what you heard from others about this 2nd race, but to me nobody reported anything.

I guess your attitude is entirely legitimate, of course, but this what happened.

 

[Biggles]

Biggles, Biggles...you come late to the party, slag off on the guests and then complain about the food. What's a poor host to do.

There are clearly 'issues' with this game. But I have had races (such as the GTO event) where there was VERY little lag and some great racing ensued as a result. Take a look at the videos I posted. There was a great battle between hm66, Mario & myself at Hockenheim--a lobby with 11 cars. And look at the video of VIR. Five cars hot lapping VIR with <.25 between each of us.

But in fairness, I take it from the comments made, things last night at the 'back of the pack' (cough) were considerably worse than in the clear running up front. I could see looking at the map in both races at Riviera, there was considerable overlapping of cars as one looked down the field. And it's not an easy track to pass.

Well, I don't expect you Elite racers () to care about us (), but back in the trenches it was brutal. I'm not saying it was the fault of lag - let's face it, 10 - 12 player races in FC weren't really feasible in any case. The principle difference from FC seems to be exaggerated collision physics. But I do think if we're going to have decent online races, everyone participating is going to have to slow down a bit & focus on completing the race without contact. If there was realistic mechanical damage in SCC, a lot of us wouldn't even have finished most of the races!

I guess it was a particular problem at Riviera, because in addition to being rear-ended or rear-ending, there is the hitting the barrier problem - instead of just running off, you wind up blocking the road for upcoming traffic. Of course, by the time you Elite racers came around again the roads were cleared & debris swept up ...

I'm also suggesting we do everything we can to promote the virtues of wheel-racing to Alan (MHAILWOOD too).

(I'm counting on the RS factor kicking in)

 

[Alan_G]

Don't know what you heard from others about this 2nd race, but to me nobody reported anything.

My mic was having problems last night (well the mic is okay - SCC won't take the input sometimes...). So I struggled to make my point.

Mario, I sent a private message to Jeff about it. I said Kubica88 was allowed to race, he did so kind of cleanly (although carelessly nudging me off a couple of times). But the main point was that if he were allowed to do the event today, I wouldn't be taking part in any race with him.

Maybe you needed to experience the mayhem he deliberately caused last week - Mugello, parked at final corner, I swerved around the back of him and he reversed me into the gravel. He continued to hit more people around there. Then he went full speed backwards down the main straight and hit MHailwood full speed. MHailwood quit the whole event because of this. And this was only one occation. Every time he's allowed into a race he does it. We gave him another chance in a 355 challenge race at Misano a few days ago. He held me up for a lap, I got passed him, then approaching a hairpin I see something approaching fast in the mirrors, causing me to serve onto the grass, and he flashed passed straight into the gravel (failing to hit me, as was intended).

He sent you a message pleading to be let race. So that's your decision, and I will not at all begrudge your decision to let him race any time. I will simply opt out whenever he's racing. My own opinion is that even if someone does 99 clean races, and if they drive backwards on the 100th time, they will never race with me again.

 

[darkos]

Are you guys playing tonight ?

 

[jasonb1985]

Are you guys playing tonight ?

3pm eastern time is the big event.

 

[jjaisli]

Kubica88 will never enter a race in your lobby if you don't want it to happen.

Then he sent me a PM asking to be allowed to race. "Please" included. So I let him in, with a few words of caution.

It's your business. But they guy acts like a 🤬 dozens of times. And because he sends a PSN saying "please" doesn't cut it in my book. Driving like an idiot, fine. Purposely punting. Repeatedly. NO way. Two people were so aggravated that they PMd me about this. If the second person wants to make himself known, it's up to him.

Nothing further to add.

 

[darkos]

i sent my request to race with you guys. i just hope that i will recive an invite

just 650.000 cash to my platinum

 

[jjaisli]

All kidding aside Biggles, you do have a point.

This event is supposed to FUN. And enjoyable. And there's nothing enjoyable about being punted out in a huge multi-car pile up on the first corner.

So I'd like to ask EVERYBODY to take it easy this evening. Be patient. And relax.

Thanks.

 

[jjaisli]

If you haven't done so, send me a friend request darkos. I have to admit, at this point, I'm a bit worried we may be over the 16 person limit.

 

[Hun200kmh]

It's your business. But they guy acts like a 🤬 dozens of times. And because he sends a PSN saying "please" doesn't cut it in my book. Driving like an idiot, fine. Purposely punting. Repeatedly. NO way. Two people were so aggravated that they PMd me about this. If the second person wants to make himself known, it's up to him.

Nothing further to add.

You know, I'd rather prefer they had PMed me. But I've also got nothing further to add,
I guess it's in my nature to be a frog.

 

[darkos]

If you haven't done so, send me a friend request darkos. I have to admit, at this point, I'm a bit worried we may be over the 16 person limit.

already send it : )

 

[Alan_G]

You know, I'd rather prefer they had PMed me. But I've also got nothing further to add,
I guess it's in my nature to be a frog.

For a few seconds my mic was working, and I managed to make my point in the lobby - Mario, you said you wanted to give him another chance. I gave my response to that in the lobby. So I didn't want to drag the issue further hitting you with an additional PM.

The only reason I sent a message to Jeff was because he will be hosting the event today. And the reason I made it a private message was because I don't like publicly making an example of any individual.

 

[darkos]

ok. so to what psn id should i send my friend request ?

 

[jasonb1985]

Can't we all just get along???

 

[Biggles]

Had a few good races this afternoon. Starting to get the feel of things again.

I've got to say, Riviera in the rain with the P4 is just asking for trouble though!

On the positive side: there are a bunch of little things I'm noticing that are nice improvements to FC - mostly obviously the ability to "race" online while alone in a lobby - that's a big, big plus in encouraging people to show up online.

The complexity of throttle, brake, weight-transfer & steering is still the best thing going on the PS3, & I'm starting to not notice the weakness of the graphics. I do miss the clutch from Shift though - it was a nice feature. I've finally stopped "clutching" in SCC.

 

[jjaisli]

3:00. 40 minutes from now. And I'm glad you're getting into the swing of things. As long as people are patient and relax, and accept the fact that there ARE issues, I think things will be OK. Time to go lay down my cables.

 

[jasonb1985]

Had a few good races this afternoon. Starting to get the feel of things again.

I've got to say, Riviera in the rain with the P4 is just asking for trouble though!

On the positive side: there are a bunch of little things I'm noticing that are nice improvements to FC - mostly obviously the ability to "race" online while alone in a lobby - that's a big, big plus in encouraging people to show up online.

The complexity of throttle, brake, weight-transfer & steering is still the best thing going on the PS3, & I'm starting to not notice the weakness of the graphics. I do miss the clutch from Shift though - it was a nice feature. I've finally stopped "clutching" in SCC.

Is it 3.00 EST or 4.00?

To bad i couldn't join. I had to do some stuff around the house.

I agree that it's the best physics on the PS3. I honestly don't see all complaints about the graphics. No, they aren't as good as GT5P, but they are fine.

Jeff told me it's 3 pm eastern time. I'm still not sure if I'm gonna join or not. From what I played last night the stability of the online is just not very good.

 

[RUI]

Well, last night I kept being disconnected from the lobby so most of the time I was left waiting for everybody to finish their race, entered the next race – only to be disconnected again after a while!
This happened both when jjaisli and Mário hosted. It was especially annoying the few times I was actually well placed – like at one of the Nurburgring races. When I was actually able to finish a race, which I only managed to do 3 or 4 times, there was too much lag and a lot of weird stuff happening, cars appearing out of nowhere darting and bumping me; at our race at the oval when Mário began hosting I was overtaking cars but kept the same place (last!) and even though I was alone in the track map I kept seing and passing other slower cars!
I haven´t done many online races, my only experience online is from playing some GT5P until the August 2008 update and even though there’re no private lobbies, etc. at least you (almost) always know what happened when you get knocked off the track. My apologies to anyone I may have punted last night, I can assure you I always tried to race clean.
I still may try some of the races tonight, hope I have better luck!

 

[chilledant]

Hi guys. we are becoming a lot of people racing the old timer event. 2 of the ghost brothers for za have also joined now.. we can all say 1 lobby is getting full i have read the thread. what do you guys say about 2 groups then a main round on sunday. So 2 groups of 8 on saterday evening and the top 4 from each group go to the main event on sunday but its all up to you guys and jasail he make the event happen. I think this will help with a lot of the problems the game has. plus 8 lobbys are better in this game its fact.. i have raced in one event only but have come across a good community of racing driver's.. keep smiling guys. P.S kubica88 i dont know i raced him but he retires always his just SLOW and makes issues when collisions are on turn them off when he enters he will leave within the first 2 laps.👍👎