Sciaru BRZFRS (BreezeFrees)
- Thread starter Azuremen
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- MuzaffarMusa
Holy mother of.......... 
👍
Thats is one of the sickest rendering of a Subaru/Toyota in years!!!!! If that went into production, it would be no surprise it would sell like hot cakes!
But the powerplant does sound awesome (I mean, you can't beat 110HP per liter like the Hondas) and yeah, the Integra Type R is a really good benchmark.
Actually, to kinda think of it, this could be the replacement for the sports coupe class that both Subaru and Toyota had been missing, and it does have a bit of the Alcyone, Celica and the Trueno look in there......
👍Thats is one of the sickest rendering of a Subaru/Toyota in years!!!!! If that went into production, it would be no surprise it would sell like hot cakes!
But the powerplant does sound awesome (I mean, you can't beat 110HP per liter like the Hondas) and yeah, the Integra Type R is a really good benchmark.Actually, to kinda think of it, this could be the replacement for the sports coupe class that both Subaru and Toyota had been missing, and it does have a bit of the Alcyone, Celica and the Trueno look in there......
- 7,666
I wonder if Subaru will want to make it AWD to keep their image up. And hopefully it being branded as a Scoobaru will save us from having to put up with a hybrid version to save the planet that nobody will actually drive. And this one looks a lot like that FT-HS thing we say a while back. I wonder how similar the Toyota version will look to it, or how different the final versions will be from this.
Looks like it should be a good car though. Probably decently quick. I wonder how many Toyota versions will find their way to RHD markets outside Japan.
Looks like it should be a good car though. Probably decently quick. I wonder how many Toyota versions will find their way to RHD markets outside Japan.
The Vanishing Boy
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-> I wouldn't count on those renderings, based on Subaru's current design philosophy, it will eventually more look like this:
- 3,212
The orange car was rock-solid, that Subaru test protoype is bulbous, but still nice to look at.
I see a bit of the Camry on the headlights, but it's not at all that noticeable. Who would care?
I see a bit of the Camry on the headlights, but it's not at all that noticeable. Who would care?
- 10,828
- Belgium
- bramturismo
Wait a second here!
So the coupe's based on the Impreza, and the engine will be from an Impreza...
Am I the only one who's wondering what this has got to do with Toyota in any way?
So the coupe's based on the Impreza, and the engine will be from an Impreza...
Am I the only one who's wondering what this has got to do with Toyota in any way?
- 10,620
- gtp_jimprower
Toyota's gonna use their own bodywork on it for a JDM model, that's what. Oh, and Toyota seems to have taken over Subaru's design studio.
- 7,666
I'm thinking this is just a photoshop putting a Subaru face on the FT-HS or whatever that concept was called.
It will be interesting to see how Toyota finds a way into this, besides just selling rebadged ones in Japan. Maybe they'll take over US production?
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- GTP_Kent
Looks like it could be a real killer. 👍
Let's just hope it has a suspension worthy of the other attributes. Further, although 2,800 is still heavier than my Corolla and far heavier than the famed hachi roku, I'm sure it is light enough for 220 NA @6500 to be great fun. 👍
I can't wait to see what really happens with this project.
Btw, I really wouldn't be surprised to see a new platform. This early into the project, and despite Toyota/Subaru claims...
Sounds a little like critics saying "oh it will just be a Subby chassis for Toyota to use." The reality is, we could see an all new Impreza chassis developed at the same time as when this car is released (I doubt that), there's just that much time between now and 2011.
Let's just hope it has a suspension worthy of the other attributes. Further, although 2,800 is still heavier than my Corolla and far heavier than the famed hachi roku, I'm sure it is light enough for 220 NA @6500 to be great fun. 👍
I can't wait to see what really happens with this project.
Btw, I really wouldn't be surprised to see a new platform. This early into the project, and despite Toyota/Subaru claims...
Sounds a little like critics saying "oh it will just be a Subby chassis for Toyota to use." The reality is, we could see an all new Impreza chassis developed at the same time as when this car is released (I doubt that), there's just that much time between now and 2011.
- 38,686
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Looks good so far. Headlights almost look like the photoshop I did of the Hyundai Genesis coupe.
I wonder when automotive design is going to shift back to lines that are parallel to the ground instead of everything slanting up towards the back.
I wonder when automotive design is going to shift back to lines that are parallel to the ground instead of everything slanting up towards the back.
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- JMarine25
I was watching G4 as The Feed was talking about this car would be a Subaru in America. I know it's a Toyota-Subaru collaborative effort, but it will be a Subaru here. However, I still imagine the prospect (and just the prospect) of perhaps Ken Gushi's RWD Scion tC perhaps fueling the fire for a RWD coupe. I've never hated the tC. If Subaru gets themselves a rare RWD car to be sold (maybe the first road-going RWD Subaru in a long while. Maybe the first since the old Subaru 360), I still tend to think that Toyota still needs a worthy RWD car. They have a few things they can do. Here are my predictions if Toyota thinks of coming up with an RWD coupe or sedan:
* come up with a limited-edition RWD Scion tC with Formula D influence, hopefully make the tC available in FWD or RWD
* bring back the Toyota Chaser (unless it's a Lexus under a different name)
* make a modern-day AE86
I'm hopeful the car will have very nice style. I've hated the looks of the latest Impreza when it came out, but I'm actually a bit optimistic if this Toyota/Subaru collaborative effort can produce a sporty coupe. Maybe even offer it in a convertible if you want to ride along the coastline of southern California or near beachfront at Miami. So Subaru will sell whatever Toyota/Subaru are cooking up. We'll see how this thing goes in future car shows.
* come up with a limited-edition RWD Scion tC with Formula D influence, hopefully make the tC available in FWD or RWD
* bring back the Toyota Chaser (unless it's a Lexus under a different name)
* make a modern-day AE86
I'm hopeful the car will have very nice style. I've hated the looks of the latest Impreza when it came out, but I'm actually a bit optimistic if this Toyota/Subaru collaborative effort can produce a sporty coupe. Maybe even offer it in a convertible if you want to ride along the coastline of southern California or near beachfront at Miami. So Subaru will sell whatever Toyota/Subaru are cooking up. We'll see how this thing goes in future car shows.
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As I said in the RX-7 thread, I think the 1990s are gone. Toyota and the other Japanese manufacturers have realized that they can make more money milking their "reliable, affordable and efficient" images to death, however reliable, affordable or efficient the new ones are. And this has come at the expense of their sporty image which I guess they've realized won't be as profitable. Notice that they aren't making any all-out sports cars like the Supra anymore, just four wheeled supercomputers that try to do everything at once, ruining their sporty look.
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- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
Well, you have to look at Toyota's business model as well. Their average buyer is growing older by the day, and that's because they know they're getting the same reliable/safe/trouble-free (debatable) car that Buicks and Cadillacs had always been before. They (Toyota) have to cater to a very set market, older folks and small families, and that doesn't leave much room for the "sports car" crowd.
...And that's where Scion comes in, right?
Wrong.
Sure, the average age of a Scion owner is down in the 30s, but the problem is that they've only sold 200K models since its debut back in 2002/2003. They've had some big years, but with the import scene dying quickly, the whole "need" for this tuner brand has flopped... Big time.
With Lexus owners getting older, Toyota owners getting older, and the Scion brand floundering about out there... I'm not sure what their options are other than modernizing the brand in America in the same way GM and Ford are doing it; Import the European and Japanese models, the awkward/quirky/cool/*insert adjective here* models that make Toyotas desirable elsewhere. If that includes this RWD thing, so be it, but I think I'd rather have the Subaru model anyway...
...And that's where Scion comes in, right?
Wrong.
Sure, the average age of a Scion owner is down in the 30s, but the problem is that they've only sold 200K models since its debut back in 2002/2003. They've had some big years, but with the import scene dying quickly, the whole "need" for this tuner brand has flopped... Big time.
With Lexus owners getting older, Toyota owners getting older, and the Scion brand floundering about out there... I'm not sure what their options are other than modernizing the brand in America in the same way GM and Ford are doing it; Import the European and Japanese models, the awkward/quirky/cool/*insert adjective here* models that make Toyotas desirable elsewhere. If that includes this RWD thing, so be it, but I think I'd rather have the Subaru model anyway...
- 10,620
- gtp_jimprower
I think that's kind of what Toyota's trying to do with Subaru, at least, the Impreza and this car. Unfortunately....not working.
The big problem I've seen with Scion is that the factory performance accessories really don't go far enough...in fact, they put the cars on level with models that the cars should be competing with in the first place. The xB, I think, is the big seller, and that's merely on it's style and quirky, but lovable packaging. But the tC still comes with less power than a Celica GT-S without the factory blower, and still will handle worse. The xD steps on the Yaris's toes, (I still don't know how Toyota sells the ist and Vitz in the same place) and you can get most of the same go-a-little-quicker bits for the Yaris, while saving weight.
The gap in Toyota's lineup is an inexpensive-GE engined car. I don't think a Toyobaru would replace the Celica. I'd LOVE to see wide-angle twincam heads on the 2.4 used in the tC, Corolla/Matrix XRS, Camry, xB, whatever. The real thing I've noticed is that Toyota's starting to rest on their laurels, and really starting to fall for some of the same traps the Big Three have been. Quality is falling, dependence on a generation that could soon begin to dissapear, and, worst of all, being fine with the status quo.
I think the last great Toyota (not counting the Lexus F-cars) was the Caldina GT-Four of Japan. 3S-GTE engine, 4WD, really aggressive looks (I looked at it in GT4 and thought, "THAT'S a TOYOTA?!) but, unfortunately, Japan-only exclusivity.
Impreza comes in here. Up until recently, the car was a rather aggressive little sporting model. Now it's a Corolla clone with 4WD and a modified VW engine. They even, for some reason, thought it'd be a good idea to make the top model hatch-only. They used to do both wagons and four-doors. As Tiff Needell said, "I want my little blue rally car back!!!"
Suddenly, though, there's hope, in the form of this car, likely an Impreza Coupe, while the name "22B" comes to mind. But...one must wonder...Will they screw this up? Will it end up more like a Focus Coupe than miles of "WIN!!!"
I really, truly, don't know a thing.
and now That I've been around the world and back, we return to your regularly scheduled programming.
The big problem I've seen with Scion is that the factory performance accessories really don't go far enough...in fact, they put the cars on level with models that the cars should be competing with in the first place. The xB, I think, is the big seller, and that's merely on it's style and quirky, but lovable packaging. But the tC still comes with less power than a Celica GT-S without the factory blower, and still will handle worse. The xD steps on the Yaris's toes, (I still don't know how Toyota sells the ist and Vitz in the same place) and you can get most of the same go-a-little-quicker bits for the Yaris, while saving weight.
The gap in Toyota's lineup is an inexpensive-GE engined car. I don't think a Toyobaru would replace the Celica. I'd LOVE to see wide-angle twincam heads on the 2.4 used in the tC, Corolla/Matrix XRS, Camry, xB, whatever. The real thing I've noticed is that Toyota's starting to rest on their laurels, and really starting to fall for some of the same traps the Big Three have been. Quality is falling, dependence on a generation that could soon begin to dissapear, and, worst of all, being fine with the status quo.
I think the last great Toyota (not counting the Lexus F-cars) was the Caldina GT-Four of Japan. 3S-GTE engine, 4WD, really aggressive looks (I looked at it in GT4 and thought, "THAT'S a TOYOTA?!) but, unfortunately, Japan-only exclusivity.
Impreza comes in here. Up until recently, the car was a rather aggressive little sporting model. Now it's a Corolla clone with 4WD and a modified VW engine. They even, for some reason, thought it'd be a good idea to make the top model hatch-only. They used to do both wagons and four-doors. As Tiff Needell said, "I want my little blue rally car back!!!"
Suddenly, though, there's hope, in the form of this car, likely an Impreza Coupe, while the name "22B" comes to mind. But...one must wonder...Will they screw this up? Will it end up more like a Focus Coupe than miles of "WIN!!!"
I really, truly, don't know a thing.
and now That I've been around the world and back, we return to your regularly scheduled programming.
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- YSSMAN
- YSSMAN
I really don't disagree... It makes total sense. Although I generally think the last great "modern" Toyota was the Celica that passed in 2002. But that's all personal stuff.
They're in the middle of an identity crisis to say the least, and like you pointed out, we're going to see Big Three-like growing pains at an accelerated rate with Toyota. This will likely include failed brands (Scion), old people cars (the Toyota line), and soaring development costs that will eventually have to be passed to the consumer.
The thing is though, with good management they can avoid it completely. It just seems that much like General Motors 1977-2003, they're too cocky to do the right thing.
And now that I'm an owner of a Toyota, a proper '90s one at that, I certainly think I'm a bit more in the right to bitch... Because its cars like my Celica that made the company great. Something has obviously been lost somewhere along the line...
They're in the middle of an identity crisis to say the least, and like you pointed out, we're going to see Big Three-like growing pains at an accelerated rate with Toyota. This will likely include failed brands (Scion), old people cars (the Toyota line), and soaring development costs that will eventually have to be passed to the consumer.
The thing is though, with good management they can avoid it completely. It just seems that much like General Motors 1977-2003, they're too cocky to do the right thing.
And now that I'm an owner of a Toyota, a proper '90s one at that, I certainly think I'm a bit more in the right to bitch... Because its cars like my Celica that made the company great. Something has obviously been lost somewhere along the line...
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Am I the only one who saw the disconnect with "RWD" and "Integra Type R"? How can a front-drive car be the benchmark for a rear-drive car? And this from one company that hasn't done rear-wheel drive in, what, 20 years? Or the other one who hasn't done a good rear-wheel drive car in even longer?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but on-paper stats mean nothing, especially given both companies' recent track records with all things fun.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but on-paper stats mean nothing, especially given both companies' recent track records with all things fun.
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The Integra Type-R is an excellent car in handling; therefore the company sets out to mimic the stability of a front-driver with rear-wheel drive, I think.
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Actually, makes proper sense.
You want a car that handles great but is quite forgiving... the Integra Type R is a good one. Great chassis balance.
But if you're doing RWD, you want to be targetting the MX-5, anyway. But that's a two-seater with less power. The Integra would be a prime competitor for the kind of car Toyota is looking at making.
You want a car that handles great but is quite forgiving... the Integra Type R is a good one. Great chassis balance.
But if you're doing RWD, you want to be targetting the MX-5, anyway. But that's a two-seater with less power. The Integra would be a prime competitor for the kind of car Toyota is looking at making.
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I suppose so, given the styling departments at Toyota and Subaru, but the rotary engines seem a bit weak compared to a Boxer... if the engine is powerful enough, the RX-8 will be the least of the venture's worries.
- 1,579
I think we've all overlooked a primary competitor:
Good chassis balance, decent straight-line performance, not too bad on price (relative, of course). A damn shame you can only get it with a rotary...
See, now that makes sense as a reference. Well, maybe that and half a dozen other older, cheap, rear-drive cars. Whether the Integra handles well or not is irrelevant. It's *how* it goes about it that matters. Anyone who's driven both a Miata and ITR will tell you that, while both handle "well", they're still quite different.
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- JMarine25
Maybe it's just me in thinking that every car company with a variety of cars should have at least one to impress the performance enthusiasts. Perhaps I'm thinking this is still the '90s (being an '80s hater, I'm fine with this) and that we still have at least mentions of Japanese car makers coming up with potent autos to take on American sports cars and even some European makes. Like the MKIV Supra is still around in the 276 to 300 hp range. Since we're talking Toyota, they can make a decent sports car that's not priced too bad. Remember the MR-S? The Toyota MR-S and MR2 are what I've considered as the most affordable mid-engined cars (the honor may now go to those Smarts unless Smarts are rear-engined). They were sports cars without being completely outlandish. Whether you prefer the former MR-2 or MR-S, it was still a sports car without being too much of a powerhouse. Granted I liked the 1999 Celica for its racy looks, I still tend to miss the Celica GT-Four, though I was never a serious fanatic of the car. So something inside of me still thinks this is the '90s. But it's obviously 2008.
Is it okay if I ask... is Toyota still a viable and respectful company even without sports cars like the MR-S, the mid-1990s Celicas, and my beloved MKIV Supra? Could they still be respected overall even without some of those sports cars? Or have they fallen into mediocrity by the lessening of these cars from their lineup?
Is it okay if I ask... is Toyota still a viable and respectful company even without sports cars like the MR-S, the mid-1990s Celicas, and my beloved MKIV Supra? Could they still be respected overall even without some of those sports cars? Or have they fallen into mediocrity by the lessening of these cars from their lineup?
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The latter... Have a look at the "edgy" Scion brand and you can see where the problems are. They've completely forgotten how to make proper sporting cars. Sure, they may look like them, but they don't have the stuff to back it up. The tC is too heavy and underpowered, the Corola XRS is just a bodykit these days, and the very same can be said for the Matrix with the same trim level.
As an owner of a mid-90s (well, late '90s) Toyota Celica now, I'm appalled by how they've let things fall apart. The quality, capability, and outward view as a true sports car. Completely gone.
As an owner of a mid-90s (well, late '90s) Toyota Celica now, I'm appalled by how they've let things fall apart. The quality, capability, and outward view as a true sports car. Completely gone.
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- gtp_jimprower
Like I said, it's the same trap the American automakers seem to fall into: stagnation.
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- GTP_Kent
Not sure if this is a new article or not...
http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-sports-coupe-caught-on-camera.html
Seems the 300+hp 2.5 might be an option along with 4WD.
I doubt the image above is anything more than photoshop work but anyone who has more info is encouraged to reveal whatever possible.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/subaru-sports-coupe-caught-on-camera.html
Seems the 300+hp 2.5 might be an option along with 4WD.
I doubt the image above is anything more than photoshop work but anyone who has more info is encouraged to reveal whatever possible.
- 1,101
- GTP_EA11R
As with the failure with the styling of the B9 Tribeca, Subaru seems to be a company that learns from their mistakes. I'd bet that is nothing more than a meaningless photoshop, since it seems that there are about 3-dozen fans of the new Impreza's styling, which this mimics.
If nothing else, I'm pretty sure it's still a photoshop. It uses the old STI wheels, an odd choice at best; the STI wheels implies a production model, which clashes with the insanely low ride height; and the hood scoop just looks somehow abstractly fake to me.
That said, I could very well also be completely wrong. Most of the photo looks perfectly logical, with the perfect shadow and correct shading (I think).
Either way, I think that the concept is hideous and graceless, the rearward window geometry copies the Astra, the sharp crease cutting through the side of the car complicates it without adding style or harmony, the mirror signals are excessively wide, and the cutline that curves through the headlight looks like it just missed lining up with the signal/headlight boundary within. Rubbish, all of it, and what isn't unique is only unique by unspeakable ugliness.
If nothing else, I'm pretty sure it's still a photoshop. It uses the old STI wheels, an odd choice at best; the STI wheels implies a production model, which clashes with the insanely low ride height; and the hood scoop just looks somehow abstractly fake to me.
That said, I could very well also be completely wrong. Most of the photo looks perfectly logical, with the perfect shadow and correct shading (I think).
Either way, I think that the concept is hideous and graceless, the rearward window geometry copies the Astra, the sharp crease cutting through the side of the car complicates it without adding style or harmony, the mirror signals are excessively wide, and the cutline that curves through the headlight looks like it just missed lining up with the signal/headlight boundary within. Rubbish, all of it, and what isn't unique is only unique by unspeakable ugliness.
Joey D
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Autoblog
More photos through Winding Road:
http://news.windingroad.com/body-st...d-first-ever-look-at-toyota-subaru-rwd-coupe/
And I think this Autoblog comment sums it up fairly well:
Torrent
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I'm sure the picture I posted is a photoshop (instinct alone). Could be wrong but I doubt it, that just screams photoshop. 
The article it was attached to seemed more important but that's probably rubbish as well. Thank "Left Lane News" for the info.
The one above looks like a good spy shot but it also looks like a photoshop of the IS Lexus. The door is so small and the body is so large I'm tempted to say it could be a PS of the IS spied years ago.
That said, a 20,000 IS with a Subaru boxer 4 sounds great to me. 👍
The article it was attached to seemed more important but that's probably rubbish as well. Thank "Left Lane News" for the info.
The one above looks like a good spy shot but it also looks like a photoshop of the IS Lexus. The door is so small and the body is so large I'm tempted to say it could be a PS of the IS spied years ago.
That said, a 20,000 IS with a Subaru boxer 4 sounds great to me. 👍
