Should B-Spec be in GT5?

[msako]

I'm guessing and hoping they get rid of it. It makes it far too easy to get the F1 car. I don't mind it for arcade mode or if you only got to use the F1 car for that session only but you shouldn't be able to put some brain dead settings in place, walk away and come back and you have the F1 car with almost no pain and suffering on your part. I finished 24 hour races six times, all of them using "pause" and it worked just fine. A save feature would be a compromise but if they limited it to a few saves, that would be OK with me. Unlimited saves just makes it too easy for people to pass around their saves and again, that's getting something without much effort. Getting the F1 car is supposed to mean something. With B-Spec they made it meaningless. At least 100% gold licenses is something I could be proud of. In fact, if someone got 100% gold licenses, I would have no problems with letting them B-Spec, but I seriously doubt anyone who gets 100% gold is going to do something like B-Spec an F1 car. This is just my opinion.

IMO, either allow me to save when I pit, or get rid some ridiculously long races. Even 6 hours is enough to simulate the feel of an endurance race, when all the other races are 15 laps or less. I'm a huge racing fan, but even I said WTF were they thinking, when I saw that there really were really 24 hour races in GT4. And if you're gonna add 24 hour races, it's almost a crime not to add the Daytona 24hr course, Seibring, or Spa ect.

 

[RACECAR]

I like to race my races like real life so when comes to enduros, I divide my driving time accordingly in reasonably timed stints, then switch to my Co-driver AKA B-Spec(I hate the name "B-Spec Bob"). I wouldn't mind them keeping B-Spec, but I definately love the idea of mid-race saves. Some of you guys think your not skilled until you can actually do all 24 hrs without any help, but you don't relize some of us have busy schedules coupled with the fact that we can't always predict whats next in RL which eliminates that possibility all together. I've been able to do this with the game "Le Mans 24 Hours" and it helped alot since I was always at school and had after school activities coming home late and it still does.

I think it'd be fun if you could switch A-spec/B-spec with a friend in an online race, kinda like a tag team. Like, in an online match, the A-spec racers cannot see maps, places, times, etc. but their B-spec partners can see that info and give it to them via microphone. Then if you wanna switch jobs with your partner, head to the pits.

I like this idea alot. Maybe you have a friend with some freetime and you have a busy schedule: have him take over and its taken care of.

BUT Del wants more for GT5 ! ..... C-SPEC ..... where we control a race team {2 or 3 cars} .. yes pls

I also like this idea as I've always fantised about running More then one car. I imagine myself as a Owner/Driver Running a Two-car Ford GT Team in the GT1 class or a two car Audi R8 team. Would really be cool.

 

[JohnBM01]

Yes! Absolutely. And I'm speaking in terms of my own abilities as well as for other racers who may not be as good. The common argument is that using B-Spec only takes away a hard-earned win. B-Spec takes away from earning your stripes if you think of this as "the game playing itself for you." There are races even I don't feel I could win on my own. I think of B-Spec as my teammate. I can assume the role of the team captain and just get out there and race. My B-Spec counterpart (assume he/she is a young racer who has me for inspiration) would need to learn my racing style and do whatever he/she can to win. I ususally have faith in my B-Spec racer to do a better job than I do. No way in Hell am I going to say that the B-Spec mode in GT is like steroids in baseball. I think Polyphony Digital is trying to HELP you, not undermine you by using B-Spec. It is an AI racer, after all. Wouldn't you still put faith in your B-Spec counterpart to accomplish what you couldn't?

I have an interesting little twist to B-Spec that I've envisioned. If you change to B-Spec, let the pit stop be longer so it seems like you're changing drivers with your B-Spec teammate. Same goes for if you go from B-Spec to A-Spec. Just an interesting twist. I'm sick of the argument that B-Spec is the game playing itself for you. It doesn't make you any less of a person to use B-Spec if you're not an extremely talented racer. You want "game is about driving, not racing?" It's called watching a race preview. Most people don't seem to care that you are still in control of your B-Spec racer. You can't just let it sit out hoping to win the race. If your B-Spec racer loses the race, YOU lose the race. He's/She's trying to win the race FOR you. We're all aware the AI is not up to par (lightily speaking). But if you had a choice of giving up racing an event or using anything legally available to you to win the race, wouldn't you go with B-Spec, even if your chances of winning won't very good using it? Use your resources! That's why it's there. Don't give me this s:censored: about how the B-Spec racer is a pain in the ass.

So for the sake of myself and other racers who may not be the finest Gran Turismo veterans (like me), I say keep the B-Spec. Give the inexperienced and not-very-good racers a chance to win races they may otherwise not win. Build a good car, have a suitable car to compete against others, and put all or most of your faith in your B-Spec racer coming through. The B-Spec driver has done better in some races than I have. If I'm not going to win the race, maybe my B-Spec racer can do BETTER than me. Maybe you're a good racer, but your B-Spec is better. It's not a handicap. It's definitely not a cheat. The B-Spec is your gateway to winning races you may otherwise struggle mightily in. My suggestion: keep B-Spec, but allow a save feature for longer races. In fact, I'd prefer mid-race saves for all races. Anytime a race calls for pit stops to be made, make your pit stop and save if you have to. Just reload all the data from when all the other cars are on the track as well as whatever settings you're going for. And that's all for me.

[UPDATE] I, too, dislike "B-Spec Bob." It's a stupid name in my view. I see B-Spec as a teammate and not some no-name newbie.

 

[msako]

Struggle, get better and maybe improve your skills like I did. You have to be a student of using a racing line, etc. or you'll never get any better. Using B-spec is a total cop-out in my opinion. Just my opinion. If I'm not up to putting in 24 hours then I don't deserve it. Like I said before, it's ok in arcade mode and make it temporary so you can see what you're working towards but don't give it away for free.

Yes! Absolutely. And I'm speaking in terms of my own abilities as well as for other racers who may not be as good. The common argument is that using B-Spec only takes away a hard-earned win. B-Spec takes away from earning your stripes if you think of this as "the game playing itself for you." There are races even I don't feel I could win on my own. I think of B-Spec as my teammate. I can assume the role of the team captain and just get out there and race. My B-Spec counterpart (assume he/she is a young racer who has me for inspiration) would need to learn my racing style and do whatever he/she can to win. I ususally have faith in my B-Spec racer to do a better job than I do. No way in Hell am I going to say that the B-Spec mode in GT is like steroids in baseball. I think Polyphony Digital is trying to HELP you, not undermine you by using B-Spec. It is an AI racer, after all. Wouldn't you still put faith in your B-Spec counterpart to accomplish what you couldn't?

I have an interesting little twist to B-Spec that I've envisioned. If you change to B-Spec, let the pit stop be longer so it seems like you're changing drivers with your B-Spec teammate. Same goes for if you go from B-Spec to A-Spec. Just an interesting twist. I'm sick of the argument that B-Spec is the game playing itself for you. It doesn't make you any less of a person to use B-Spec if you're not an extremely talented racer. You want "game is about driving, not racing?" It's called watching a race preview. Most people don't seem to care that you are still in control of your B-Spec racer. You can't just let it sit out hoping to win the race. If your B-Spec racer loses the race, YOU lose the race. He's/She's trying to win the race FOR you. We're all aware the AI is not up to par (lightily speaking). But if you had a choice of giving up racing an event or using anything legally available to you to win the race, wouldn't you go with B-Spec, even if your chances of winning won't very good using it? Use your resources! That's why it's there. Don't give me this s:censored: about how the B-Spec racer is a pain in the ass.

So for the sake of myself and other racers who may not be the finest Gran Turismo veterans (like me), I say keep the B-Spec. Give the inexperienced and not-very-good racers a chance to win races they may otherwise not win. Build a good car, have a suitable car to compete against others, and put all or most of your faith in your B-Spec racer coming through. The B-Spec driver has done better in some races than I have. If I'm not going to win the race, maybe my B-Spec racer can do BETTER than me. Maybe you're a good racer, but your B-Spec is better. It's not a handicap. It's definitely not a cheat. The B-Spec is your gateway to winning races you may otherwise struggle mightily in. My suggestion: keep B-Spec, but allow a save feature for longer races. In fact, I'd prefer mid-race saves for all races. Anytime a race calls for pit stops to be made, make your pit stop and save if you have to. Just reload all the data from when all the other cars are on the track as well as whatever settings you're going for. And that's all for me.

[UPDATE] I, too, dislike "B-Spec Bob." It's a stupid name in my view. I see B-Spec as a teammate and not some no-name newbie.

 

[Bones Brigade]

keep b-spec if there are enduros. whenever i do the longer enduros i switch to b-spec every 2 pit stops or so. for the 24 hours of sarthe and nurb i would go to b-spec just before i went to bed and came back in the morning and hopped in to drive. i dont think there should be a save option unless its a 24hr race.

but give b-spec some options. choose what style your other driver is (aggressive, conservative, veteran driver, rookie "gunslinger", etc.) or even complete another series of license tests with yourself driving but under the b-spec name, giving your driver specific data concerning how fast he generally corners, how much throttle he gives it out of the corner, when he applies throttle, etc. maybe drive each course yourself building data for the b-spec driver. this way its not just the computer taking over but a driver you can trust to at least put in decent laps.

 

[Bones Brigade]

I think it'd be fun if you could switch A-spec/B-spec with a friend in an online race, kinda like a tag team. Like, in an online match, the A-spec racers cannot see maps, places, times, etc. but their B-spec partners can see that info and give it to them via microphone. Then if you wanna switch jobs with your partner, head to the pits.

i like this idea too. i can only assume that online races will be inconsequential to the completion of the game, but what about instead of just an online race with 15 other online opponents, it was just you and your friend connected vs the regular ai (or i guess 30 other online opponents, 15 vehicles though. i assume that would get a little silly with bandwidth, but they could make pitstops where you change drivers have one player connect and the other disconnect.) and a win would count towards completion for both players.

 

[Kryz11]

if there will be A spec... once you pit in.. you can save your game.. then B spec should be out of the league

 

[Robin]

Definitely keep B spec, either wise how would the stupidly long races get done!

But improve his AI so you don't wake up the next morning and see he's been hitting a wall for 8 hours!

Robin

 

[BAZZ]

Having an option you don't need to use can't really do you any harm can it? Well, apart from the developing/testing etc pushing back the release date.

I'd have some serious trouble finding the time to do a 24H race without a break though. Pausing works, sure but saving would be much more preferred in my opinion.

 

[nissan tuner]

ban B-spec for races under 120miles long. other than that KEEP IT and give us more B-spec options

 

[Greycap]

I seriously doubt anyone who gets 100% gold is going to do something like B-Spec an F1 car. This is just my opinion.

I did. I have the skill to get the licences but I surely don't have the time to race 24h in one single race. It's not about being good enough to win the long races, it's about if there's any sense in it. In my case there isn't.

My own opinion is to keep the B-Spec, but make it restricted to the endurance races and arrange the entire thing in such a way that the player should have to drive every other or every third stint - effectively making the B-Spec another driver in the endurance team. Saving in the pit stops would be a nice addition, no doubt. Sure, someone can pull a Levegh and drive the 24 hours alone but many of us can't do it. And while they're at it, the car fatigue should be made more realistic. Not a single Le Mans racer loses half of its handling, and a lot of power, some 12 hours into the race. They are still in racing condition after the race.

 

[msako]

The skepticism I have is that if you had the time to get all the golds then you certainly have the time to do a 24-hour race.

I did. I have the skill to get the licences but I surely don't have the time to race 24h in one single race. It's not about being good enough to win the long races, it's about if there's any sense in it. In my case there isn't.

My own opinion is to keep the B-Spec, but make it restricted to the endurance races and arrange the entire thing in such a way that the player should have to drive every other or every third stint - effectively making the B-Spec another driver in the endurance team. Saving in the pit stops would be a nice addition, no doubt. Sure, someone can pull a Levegh and drive the 24 hours alone but many of us can't do it. And while they're at it, the car fatigue should be made more realistic. Not a single Le Mans racer loses half of its handling, and a lot of power, some 12 hours into the race. They are still in racing condition after the race.

 

[[empty space]]

i voted "Yes, but add a save feature for the middle of a race."

i liked b-spec for a various reason, but, most have been mentioned already. i used b-spec alot in gt4 because i was hoping for the same jump gt2 had over the original, but, alas, it wasnt.

i also used b-spec to raise money. setting b-spec off on the 24 hours of nordschliefe and come home from work next day to find a new fgt (~1.5m) plus the money for the win was a very nice pay off.

 

[Bones Brigade]

The skepticism I have is that if you had the time to get all the golds then you certainly have the time to do a 24-hour race.

thats pretty silly. the license tests take what...a minute a piece? a few for the full laps and 10 minutes or so for the nurb? (i dont remember what car + the target time is.)

lets say you run each mission 10 times before you gold. you could gold 5 tests in an hour. (10 minutes for load times i suppose.) play for 2 hours each night after work, maybe 4 on sat and sunday and you could easily gold everything. assuming you get better each time. so no, having a few hours a day to play does not mean you have 24 hours of free time to complete a race. and i dont know about other players, but i wouldnt feel comfortable playing for 2 hours a night and then pausing the game until the nest night. that would take 12 days. who leaves their ps2 on for 12 days?

i guess that would be an argument towards a save feature. i just like the idea of changing drivers much better. like others have said, one driver doesnt drive the whole 24 hour race irl. about half of the race is in your hands. (not counting weather, pit stops etc.)

i back the idea of having a friend via online race the other stints. i back it hard. it would still require dedicated time in front of the tv. one person would start the race while the other slept for 8 hours then they would switch. the last 8 of the race you could do 4 hour stints. i remember i quoted the guy who proposed the idea originally, but i dont remember his name. great idea though. definitely.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'd actually like to see the whole game in B-Spec.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I voted keep B-spec in but add a save feature, for the same reasoning as Greycap and others. No way I'm racing 24hrs in A-spec.

 

[msako]

Do you think you can get all of the golds at a rate of five per hour? You did not state how many golds you have but if you got 100% and averaged five per hour, then I bow down to you because I would consider you superhuman.

I'm not sure where you say 10 times to get a gold. Some of those tests required me hundreds (maybe even thousands considering immediate restarts). I don't even want to think about how many hours it took me but there were some tests that took multiple days times multiple hours of trying over and over and over. I must be lame. I had friends who were experiencing similar difficulties on some of the tests. It was a long time ago so I can't recall the specific tests.

One more point, because I play competitively with friends and relatives I do not use a wheel. When I go to someone's house, I don't want to be handicapped with having to use a wheel or other non-standard device.

thats pretty silly. the license tests take what...a minute a piece? a few for the full laps and 10 minutes or so for the nurb? (i dont remember what car + the target time is.)

lets say you run each mission 10 times before you gold. you could gold 5 tests in an hour. (10 minutes for load times i suppose.) play for 2 hours each night after work, maybe 4 on sat and sunday and you could easily gold everything. assuming you get better each time. so no, having a few hours a day to play does not mean you have 24 hours of free time to complete a race. and i dont know about other players, but i wouldnt feel comfortable playing for 2 hours a night and then pausing the game until the nest night. that would take 12 days. who leaves their ps2 on for 12 days?

i guess that would be an argument towards a save feature. i just like the idea of changing drivers much better. like others have said, one driver doesnt drive the whole 24 hour race irl. about half of the race is in your hands. (not counting weather, pit stops etc.)

i back the idea of having a friend via online race the other stints. i back it hard. it would still require dedicated time in front of the tv. one person would start the race while the other slept for 8 hours then they would switch. the last 8 of the race you could do 4 hour stints. i remember i quoted the guy who proposed the idea originally, but i dont remember his name. great idea though. definitely.

 

[Bones Brigade]

but you didnt sit there for 24 hours straight. which is the ultimate point i was trying to make.

 

[Gil]

I voted for the bottom option.
I only use B-Spec for the enduro type races, and to make extra cash.
But I've made many references to a racing game called 24 Hours of LeMans
It is similar to the GT series, in that there are many tracks and cars to choose from.
It is different in that you really only have race cars to win and choose from, tuning is available, but in a much more limited fashion than in GT.
But the thing that sets it apart, is a feature that allows you to save/resume a race in the pits. This is very helpful as there are 100minute, 240minute, and 24 hour enduros.
Yes, the graphics suck compared to any of the GT games after GT2. However, with a field of 16 cars, the ability to save at any pitstop, and the dots that represent the other cars changing color on the cars you've lapped, as well as the timer that lets you know how far ahead or behind you are, AND if you are beating your best lap...I can live with the graphics.

GT, with a field of six cars, should be able to do all the above, at the very least.
But, I've been complaining about this since GT3. I'll be the most pleasantly suprised if PD takes the hint, and adds this feature to the game. If it's in I could give a rat's ass if B-Spec is included.

 

[Rykon Zero]

B-spec should work like this: you have to have a certain amount of A-spec Points to use B-spec. For a small race, you need a small number of A-spec points, but for an Endurance race, you need a rather large number of points.

 

[nissan tuner]

i back the idea of having a friend via online race the other stints. i back it hard. it would still require dedicated time in front of the tv. one person would start the race while the other slept for 8 hours then they would switch. the last 8 of the race you could do 4 hour stints. i remember i quoted the guy who proposed the idea originally, but i dont remember his name. great idea though. definitely.

i love this idea too.

PD should call it C-spec online co-op (i think someone said this already) . 2-3 drivers. 1-2 of those drivers will have an overhauled B-spec menu w/mics and the A-spec driver would be out there racing. the team could also have 2 cars racing at once with up to 4 drivers in b-spec. tieing this in with series point races would be another plus

an option for the race to be live or saved at the pit stop so other drivers assigned to the team can pick up and play anytime they wanted until the race was finished would be fantastic

equiped with team leaderboards, all the drivers involved, team name, fastest lap, fastest average speed, race time for set lap races, most # of laps in timed races, ext.

 

[msako]

One question. Did you get 100% golds with an average of something like 5 golds per hour?

but you didnt sit there for 24 hours straight. which is the ultimate point i was trying to make.

 

[msako]

My opinion is that I would prefer that it just be available in arcade mode, if at all.

B-spec should work like this: you have to have a certain amount of A-spec Points to use B-spec. For a small race, you need a small number of A-spec points, but for an Endurance race, you need a rather large number of points.

 

[buickgnx88]

There should be a save option for endurance races no question. I see no reason why people should be leaving their systems on for several hours at a time if they aren't playing.

 

[Bones Brigade]

One question. Did you get 100% golds with an average of something like 5 golds per hour?

no. i just chose that because it sounded nice. it doesnt effect the point that (hopefully) no one sat down for 24 hours straight while doing license tests. even if you get one gold per hour or two hours, or one gold per sitting, youre still going to do it over a period of weeks or months with stints probably reaching 10 hours or maybe more. dedicated time yes, but its not 24 hours straight.

 

[buickgnx88]

The skepticism I have is that if you had the time to get all the golds then you certainly have the time to do a 24-hour race.

I guess I'm going to go back a bit and answer this. How does getting all golds equate to doing a 24-hour race? Yes they may take the same amount of time, but one can be done in several parts (each test) whereas the 24hr race can't be interrupted by saving and quitting so as to turn off the system while not playing the game.

 

[JohnBM01]

So there is a complete contrast of ideas here. I'm more along the lines of "I'm not impressive as a racer, and I want other inexperienced racers to have a chance to win." Others are more like "get rid of B-Spec and race A-Spec even if you suck." Let's not equate B-Spec with steriods in baseball. I think of this as every opportunity to win a race. I'm a veteran of the series, but even I have some of my worst races. I'm not going to be on some 10-race losing streak in which I get frustrated and quit (like "Pro Race Driver," any "Midnight Club," or the like).

At least all or most of us can agree that saving during races is definitely needed. As far as getting friends over to get races done, what if you don't have friends to play the game and fight your battles? You have to go alone. Or maybe instead of people assuming B-Spec is the race playing the game for you, maybe MAKE people stay with it. Maybe make the B-Spec racer ask you what to do next instead of letting it run away. I just seriously disagree with some of the B-Spec things with the level of my talent and the fact I don't have some macho, rock star, one-liner making sort of personality regarding this feature. I don't rely on B-Spec. If the feature is terribly bad that even Kindergarten kids feel unable to win races without B-Spec, then damn it... MAKE it better. Just don't remove it. Do you want the most chances to win a race (even if not one of the best racers), or do you want to make this almost exclusive to hardcore sim racers like a GTR or a Race Driver game? Consider everyone. Not everyone can play Gran Turismo much like being able to play a GTR game at the absolute hardest levels. I'm a great racer, but not impressive. Am I a waste of time because I'm not as talented as those who prefer to leave B-Spec to rot? It just means that I'm aware of my ability in GT and don't have an overconfidence issue. I play to win and dislike losing (though it's natural). I'm just saying to keep B-Spec because I could have a better chance of winning a race with B-Spec if my A-Spec skills suck. I think of it as a teammate and not some bench warmer. Of course, I can always get used to losing a Gran Turismo World Championshp race at the Nürburgring Nordschleife against Le Mans prototypes...

 

[msako]

It usually took me 5-7 days. I used pause. I never turned off my PS2 for three years and had it attached to a small UPS.

Getting 100% golds is far more difficult than finishing all of the 24-hour races in A-Spec (my opinion). Finishing the races takes perseverance and patience. Getting the golds takes skill, perseverance and patience. The 24-hour races are easy to win, skill-wise. I don't recall which one it was but I must have spent close to 24 hours trying to get that gold. Surprisingly, the longer final tests were not as difficult as I thought.

I guess I'm going to go back a bit and answer this. How does getting all golds equate to doing a 24-hour race? Yes they may take the same amount of time, but one can be done in several parts (each test) whereas the 24hr race can't be interrupted by saving and quitting so as to turn off the system while not playing the game.

 

[msako]

You can pause, can't you?

no. i just chose that because it sounded nice. it doesnt effect the point that (hopefully) no one sat down for 24 hours straight while doing license tests. even if you get one gold per hour or two hours, or one gold per sitting, youre still going to do it over a period of weeks or months with stints probably reaching 10 hours or maybe more. dedicated time yes, but its not 24 hours straight.

 

[buickgnx88]

Most people don't want to leave their game system's on for extended periods of time like you do, that's the problem.