Should B-Spec be in GT5?

[kingcars]

Keep BSpec. I enjoy watching races when I'm too tired to race. And for the 24h races obviously. BSpec is very helpful, but please, whatever you do, MAKE THE AI BETTER. I'm tired of giving Bob a car that's leaps and bounds better than the rest of the field only to watch him constantly slam on the brakes instead of passing other cars.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Most people don't want to leave their game system's on for extended periods of time like you do, that's the problem.

exactly.

 

[TheCracker]

I say keep it.

I've B-spec'd a majority of the enduros i've completed for the simple reason that i would get board driving for hours on end, in a race with only 5 competitors, when the outcome of the race will be pretty much set in concrete after the first round of pitstops. I won't leave my PS2 on for days on end either. We know that GT5 is going to have fields of upto 16 cars, give me the ability to save an enduro mid-race and have the option to compete in other races in between and i'll be happy. Keeping B-spec to do 'other driver' stints in an enduro would be realistic. No driver does an enduro on their own IRL.

 

[Joey D]

Keep it, I used B-spec in all of the endurance races because I simply do not want to screw around with a race that long and it was just easier to let the game do it for me so I could win the prize cars. The main reason why I never completed GT1,2,& 3 was that I could not stand the endurance races, that wasn't the case for GT4 although I never did complete it.

 

[msako]

I'm not sure why. It's just a computer. Computers are much healthier if you leave them on all the time. The reliability goes down markedly when you heat up and cool down the components over and over. The only thing better than leaving it on all the time is to leave it off all the time. Mine was never powered down for years and never had an issue.

The PS3 poses another problem, heat. The PS2 never gave off significant heat. It still sits powered on right now.

Most people don't want to leave their game system's on for extended periods of time like you do, that's the problem.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm not sure why. It's just a computer. Computers are much healthier if you leave them on all the time. The reliability goes down markedly when you heat up and cool down the components over and over. The only thing better than leaving it on all the time is to leave it off all the time. Mine was never powered down for years and never had an issue.

It's not the reliability of the PS2 i'm worried about, i don't fully trust the wiring in my house and the PS2 sits with a DVD player, DVD recorder, SKY+ box and VCR in a fairly unvented cabinet. I'd rather B-spec the enduros then bore myself stupid followed by dying in my bed one night.

 

[msako]

What makes you think it won't be scrapped? I'm guessing (and hoping) it will. I think it was included with much internal argument from what I've read in the Japanese blogs and mailing lists. It's just a debugging and QA tool (at least that's what people in Japan say) and was probably never meant to be in the game in the first place. Polyphony probably knows now it was a mistake. It simply makes the game too easy to acquire all the cars. The enduros always pissed me off at first for gt3, gt2, etc. because I didn't like racing for hours and hours. Then, after I completed one I felt a great deal of satisfaction and the desire to complete all of them.

I voted to a-spec the lot with saves in the middle.
I assumed that meant no to b-spec and yes to mid-race saves.

B-spec always bothered me.
B-spec made me feel like I was being robbed of the gaming experience. I mean, to complete the enduros I had to use B-spec... While that was handy for getting through the 24 hours of daylight, I never felt like it was fun.

I've never bought a racing game so I could watch the computer race for me. 👎
Also, I never had the problems with B-spec mode others complain about... I just watched the race from the monitor view and made sure B-spec's speed setting was never too high.

In any case though, I would love to see B-spec scrapped. 👍
Btw, I'm almost sure it will not be scrapped.

 

[kikie]

Yep, with a save feature or A-spec with a save feature.

 

[TunerFocus]

Yep, with a save feature or A-spec with a save feature.

Most definately!👍

 

[Studentdriver]

How long a PS2 can stay on is irrelevant, this is GT5 we're talking about. What kind of overheating problems are there with the PS3?

 

[Joey D]

How long a PS2 can stay on is irrelevant, this is GT5 we're talking about. What kind of overheating problems are there with the PS3?

The PS3 will get quite hot if you leave it on for more then 12 hours I've found, which I can't imagine is really good for it. But I just think there were a few problems in the beginning with store putting the PS3 behind a plastic dome which held the heat in.

 

[greenlightning]

What makes you think it won't be scrapped? I'm guessing (and hoping) it will. I think it was included with much internal argument from what I've read in the Japanese blogs and mailing lists. It's just a debugging and QA tool (at least that's what people in Japan say) and was probably never meant to be in the game in the first place. Polyphony probably knows now it was a mistake. It simply makes the game too easy to acquire all the cars. The enduros always pissed me off at first for gt3, gt2, etc. because I didn't like racing for hours and hours. Then, after I completed one I felt a great deal of satisfaction and the desire to complete all of them.

You are wrong on this. They actually had intended to have "B"-spec for GT3. I am confident that "B-spec" will be in GT5.

 

[msako]

People leave them on 7x24 when they use them as compute engines using Yellow Dog Linux. I've booted it up and it's really fast. It doesn't generate that much heat when it's idle but when all of the cell processors are running it's quite hot and you need to keep it in a ventilated area. The machine will shutdown if it gets too hot. It has protection against that but there is enough power being consumed (over 350 watts peak) that it will heat up a room.

The PS3 will get quite hot if you leave it on for more then 12 hours I've found, which I can't imagine is really good for it. But I just think there were a few problems in the beginning with store putting the PS3 behind a plastic dome which held the heat in.

 

[msako]

I thought b-spec is just director's mode. I'm wondering why they allowed you to combine the two modes. That's silly. They should be two different modes like arcade mode is separate from simulation mode.

You are wrong on this. They actually had intended to have "B"-spec for GT3. I am confident that "B-spec" will be in GT5.

 

[kingcars]

BSpec should be included, and also a mid race save feature. Why? So people who want to use BSpec can, and those who dont, well it shouldnt affect them! Just dont use it if you dont want to.

 

[sxy rider 39]

I don't get why some people are so adamant about B-Spec not being included in the game. I mean, if it's such a problem for you then just don't use it, it's really not that big a deal. I think the real question we should be answering is should there be 24hr races in GT5.

 

[msako]

It cheapens A-spec achievement down to nothing. I get into conversations with friends and tell them I finished all of the races and they assume I did it using B-spec. I don't like having to tell them that I did it with zero B-spec. They don't believe it until I show them the screen shot. It's a nuisance more than anything else. That's why I don't like B-spec and that's just my opinion. It's a pain for me and it really does cheapen the achievements of my friends who did use it. Maybe it's a macho thing, I'm not sure but that's my opinion and that's all that really counts with me. Put it in arcade mode and leave simulation mode challenging, like the license tests. Leave something like B-spec, which is basically just like a cheat to arcade mode. With B-spec, there is absolutely no challenge, none whatsoever.

I don't get why some people are so adamant about B-Spec not being included in the game. I mean, if it's such a problem for you then just don't use it, it's really not that big a deal. I think the real question we should be answering is should there be 24hr races in GT5.

 

[JohnBM01]

"Girls in skirts shouldn't be allowed to get F1 cars if they can't do a 24-hour race in A-Spec?" That's a little, uh... chauvanistic isn't it?

There's something you all must realize in all sorts of hobbies and sports. You have about three kinds of people. The first kind of person is the one who has a conservative and happy approach to accomplishing a task. The second kind of person is the one who is absolutely hardcore in what they do, usually disallowing themselves to take any sort of aids or assists. The third kind of person is the one midway between persons 1 and 2. A lot of the material msako is mostly what "Person 2" would believe, but if this person can still get the job done, that's just the way this member handles business in GT. It doesn't make us any less of people because we all can't be like him. He just has his own way of business whether we agree or not.

Having said this, I was honest. There is no way that I'm going to be playing a 24-hour A-Spec race. Hell, I had to arrange time to get ready for endurances. It isn't like I immediately go straight for the endurances each time I play. I have the same issue most people have with endurances- can't usually arrange time. B-Spec helps because not everyone is hardcore. Does it mean that we're not playing the game hard enough ditching B-Spec? No way. Last I checked... you can run the license tests, driving missions, and rally races all in A-Spec, right? Now think about this, and here is where I think msako and I can agree. One school of thought may say that it doesn't do much justice to earn your licenses by supplying your own effort, then go do most of your races in B-Spec after hard-earned licenses. Driving and racing are two different things. You learn how to handle corners in Gran Turismo before you go racing. You never realize your true potential in Gran Turismo until you go racing. Just don't put the blame on ourselves that we don't have this hardcore mentality and approach to this game. This is what I mean by people with lots of character and rock star mentality- that people are completely hardcore and have a true daredevil attitude.

Last thing I want to comment on is that you should never have some sort of hateful attitude regarding people who use B-Spec. What if you told some 8-year old kid or a senior citizen that not doing A-Spec all the time cheapens your worth as a GT gamer? What if you told this to someone who is never home a lot of times because of work? What about to a busy mother of at least two kids? It's okay to say that A-Spec is completely better than B-Spec. However, just don't go to the level of "we're not trying hard enough" by not doing all races in A-Spec. Ever notice why I don't brag about being the best racer around the Nürburgring Nordschleife? Part of it is because I'm not good at the track in the first place. Another part is because I'm not as impressive of a driver. I think of it as a teammate and not the game playing itself for me.

 

[BAZZ]

Well, John got my post of the month award. +48646

 

[Megasoft Office]

I prefer my races to be uninterrupted, so a save progress feature is not what I'm looking forward to. What they should do is reduce the benefit of using B-spec mode if you are mostly a player with a tendency of playing A-spec only. So your B-spec driver will be utterly piss-poor and remain that way if your A-spec-to-B-spec ratio is 4:1 or higher. Your B-spec mode will also be very ineffective with fewer control options, only a fuel gauge to monitor your driver, and no in-/on-car camera views.

If you are a player whose profile is predominantly in B-spec mode (an A-spec-to-B-spec ratio of 1:4), then your driver will learn more than twice as fast as a player using B-spec with a profile ratio of 4:1. You will also get a multitude more of features, such as:

B-spec driver fatigue/aggression meter
oil, tire, and water temperature gauges
faster pit stops or better trained pit crew
obviously much more skilled and faster-learning B-spec driver​

Someone with a A:B play ratio of 1:1 will get only a neutral amount of features from either side.

Recap:
Basically, someone who plays a lot of (or purely) A-spec mode will have a disadvantaged B-spec mode with fewer of everything. On the flipside, for someone who plays a lot of (or purely) B-spec mode, they will be rewarded with a much more insightful control over their race team (for a player who wants to play the responsibilities of a race team manager).

Just a thought to separate the A-spec crowd from the B-spec crowd, both of whom have their unique advantages and disadvantages.

 

[msako]

It's purely an opinion. Take it for what its worth which is not much.

The problem is, there's no separation as there is between sim and arcade modes. Basically, they dumbed down sim mode and ruined it for what you call the hardcore players. They didn't have to do this. They could have separated it out but they didn't. I really don't mind B-spec. I think it has some value, even though I've never used it, I have friends who have and they show me what they've done with it.

Some people like player pianos. I think some darn nice music gets played on them but I really prefer the human played pieces better if I was going to sit and listen to a recital. Ditto for lip sync singing. You probably get a better song when it's lip sync'ed but Milli Vanilli is not my type of music.

I can come up with other metaphor. Rosie Ruiz comes to mind. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosie_ruiz for those too young to remember.

And I've said it before, I have no problems with people who will not run a 24-hour race in A-spec. Heck, when I first cracked open the game and saw that I told my friend that I would never finish one of those. I also told him that I would never finish the license tests. But, somehow I did and took both tasks as a personal challenge. There is also another alternative. You could buy cards on E-Bay and never even have to win anything.

Again, if they separate it out then I could care less if they put in C-spec whatever that might be.

Would you object to two sim modes, one with and one without? I guess that is the real question.

"Girls in skirts shouldn't be allowed to get F1 cars if they can't do a 24-hour race in A-Spec?" That's a little, uh... chauvanistic isn't it?

There's something you all must realize in all sorts of hobbies and sports. You have about three kinds of people. The first kind of person is the one who has a conservative and happy approach to accomplishing a task. The second kind of person is the one who is absolutely hardcore in what they do, usually disallowing themselves to take any sort of aids or assists. The third kind of person is the one midway between persons 1 and 2. A lot of the material msako is mostly what "Person 2" would believe, but if this person can still get the job done, that's just the way this member handles business in GT. It doesn't make us any less of people because we all can't be like him. He just has his own way of business whether we agree or not.

Having said this, I was honest. There is no way that I'm going to be playing a 24-hour A-Spec race. Hell, I had to arrange time to get ready for endurances. It isn't like I immediately go straight for the endurances each time I play. I have the same issue most people have with endurances- can't usually arrange time. B-Spec helps because not everyone is hardcore. Does it mean that we're not playing the game hard enough ditching B-Spec? No way. Last I checked... you can run the license tests, driving missions, and rally races all in A-Spec, right? Now think about this, and here is where I think msako and I can agree. One school of thought may say that it doesn't do much justice to earn your licenses by supplying your own effort, then go do most of your races in B-Spec after hard-earned licenses. Driving and racing are two different things. You learn how to handle corners in Gran Turismo before you go racing. You never realize your true potential in Gran Turismo until you go racing. Just don't put the blame on ourselves that we don't have this hardcore mentality and approach to this game. This is what I mean by people with lots of character and rock star mentality- that people are completely hardcore and have a true daredevil attitude.

Last thing I want to comment on is that you should never have some sort of hateful attitude regarding people who use B-Spec. What if you told some 8-year old kid or a senior citizen that not doing A-Spec all the time cheapens your worth as a GT gamer? What if you told this to someone who is never home a lot of times because of work? What about to a busy mother of at least two kids? It's okay to say that A-Spec is completely better than B-Spec. However, just don't go to the level of "we're not trying hard enough" by not doing all races in A-Spec. Ever notice why I don't brag about being the best racer around the Nürburgring Nordschleife? Part of it is because I'm not good at the track in the first place. Another part is because I'm not as impressive of a driver. I think of it as a teammate and not the game playing itself for me.

 

[msako]

Actually, I'm not sure about the logic here. I would do a 180-degree shift from this. The more you do B-spec the worse (worn out) your driver becomes. You waste him doing 24-hour races and he gets spent. The only way to recharge him is to give him a break. If he gets tired and misses pit stops or crashes too much then you have to relieve him. Letting him run most of the enduros is just as unrealistic as a human running a continuous enduro for 24 hours.

I prefer my races to be uninterrupted, so a save progress feature is not what I'm looking forward to. What they should do is reduce the benefit of using B-spec mode if you are mostly a player with a tendency of playing A-spec only. So your B-spec driver will be utterly piss-poor and remain that way if your A-spec-to-B-spec ratio is 4:1 or higher. Your B-spec mode will also be very ineffective with fewer control options, only a fuel gauge to monitor your driver, and no in-/on-car camera views.

If you are a player whose profile is predominantly in B-spec mode (an A-spec-to-B-spec ratio of 1:4), then your driver will learn more than twice as fast as a player using B-spec with a profile ratio of 4:1. You will also get a multitude more of features, such as:

B-spec driver fatigue/aggression meter
oil, tire, and water temperature gauges
faster pit stops or better trained pit crew
obviously much more skilled and faster-learning B-spec driver​

Someone with a A:B play ratio of 1:1 will get only a neutral amount of features from either side.

Recap:
Basically, someone who plays a lot of (or purely) A-spec mode will have a disadvantaged B-spec mode with fewer of everything. On the flipside, for someone who plays a lot of (or purely) B-spec mode, they will be rewarded with a much more insightful control over their race team (for a player who wants to play the responsibilities of a race team manager).

Just a thought to separate the A-spec crowd from the B-spec crowd, both of whom have their unique advantages and disadvantages.

 

[sxy rider 39]

It's purely an opinion. Take it for what its worth which is not much.
Basically, they dumbed down sim mode and ruined it for what you call the hardcore players. They didn't have to do this. They could have separated it out but they didn't. I really don't mind B-spec. I think it has some value, even though I've never used it



Would you object to two sim modes, one with and one without? I guess that is the real question.

How did they dumb down the whole game, if you aren't forced to use B-Spec mode? No, they didn't seperate it like sim/arcade, but there's a handy little point tabulator for A-Spec and B-Spec modes so that people who are so-hardcore like yourself can see that you have zero B-Spec points and still feel good about yourself in the morning.

And, no I wouldn't object to two sperate modes like you say, but the reality is that there's no need to do this when you aren't in any way FORCED to use B-Spec mode.

 

[nissan tuner]

b-spec haters have the most ridiculous arguements/comments on the subject.

 

[Megasoft Office]

Actually, I'm not sure about the logic here. I would do a 180-degree shift from this. The more you do B-spec the worse (worn out) your driver becomes. You waste him doing 24-hour races and he gets spent. The only way to recharge him is to give him a break. If he gets tired and misses pit stops or crashes too much then you have to relieve him. Letting him run most of the enduros is just as unrealistic as a human running a continuous enduro for 24 hours.

I don't mean to discourage the use of B-spec at all. But it would be nice to have a more rewarding experience if you wanted to manage a race team rather than drive for one. I forgot to mention this earlier, but, as team manager, you'd have more than one driver available to allocate.

 

[TheCracker]

I don't mean to discourage the use of B-spec at all. But it would be nice to have a more rewarding experience if you wanted to manage a race team rather than drive for one. I forgot to mention this earlier, but, as team manager, you'd have more than one driver available to allocate.

It would be good if B-spec was improved upon 👍

• Having a roster of drivers with differing abilities to choose between and swap over at pitstops.

• The ability to plan and execute pitstops in advance if you are using the 'speed up time' facility so you don't need to keep having to change viewing speeds again after a pit stop.

• Be able to change some of the settings during a pit stop ie wing settings, damper settings, ride height as you can IRL.

• The ability to 'manage' two, or more cars as a team. You could then use a second car as a wingman for your main championship contender and have team tactics come into play.

 

[msako]

I never took that team manager story seriously because there isn't really much to manage compared to what's been mentioned here as wish list items. A true second person sim (name any of the ones that are out there) has many switches, options and settings. I still stand by my contention that it's more of a development and debugging tool than the team manager nonsense.

I don't mean to discourage the use of B-spec at all. But it would be nice to have a more rewarding experience if you wanted to manage a race team rather than drive for one. I forgot to mention this earlier, but, as team manager, you'd have more than one driver available to allocate.

 

[msako]

You have some valid points but my personal opinion is that it should be separated into B-spec or team manager mode. I don't think (I'm only guessing) you disagree with this.

I don't mean to discourage the use of B-spec at all. But it would be nice to have a more rewarding experience if you wanted to manage a race team rather than drive for one. I forgot to mention this earlier, but, as team manager, you'd have more than one driver available to allocate.

 

[msako]

Please read what you quote. They dumbed down sim mode, not the whole game. I have a personal opinion that it's contaminated. They did not dumb down the whole game. It has nothing to do with forcing B-spec or not. It has to do with having it available as a crutch. And I'm not talking about people who use it to try to "manage" a team. I'm talking about the people (and there are plenty here, just read the threads) who are looking for instant gratification (or near instant considering how much time is required) to get the F1 car. I feel that getting the F1 car should be a special achievement, not something that can literally be gotten with almost zero driving input.

How did they dumb down the whole game, if you aren't forced to use B-Spec mode? No, they didn't seperate it like sim/arcade, but there's a handy little point tabulator for A-Spec and B-Spec modes so that people who are so-hardcore like yourself can see that you have zero B-Spec points and still feel good about yourself in the morning.

And, no I wouldn't object to two sperate modes like you say, but the reality is that there's no need to do this when you aren't in any way FORCED to use B-Spec mode.

 

[buickgnx88]

Dude, msako, could you try to just put all your replys in one post instead of double-posting or even triple-posting like you just did and maybe not copy the entire quote of the other person?