Should PD focus more on quality and consistency next time?

[Zuku]

Why are we leaving out these many Great Features

• Red bull - (An amazing partner for Gran Turismo so many great events and cars?)
• Racing Driver Collaborations - (This gave you awesome cars like the Senna Collection, Mario Andretti's Hudson Hornet just to name a couple)
• Moon Missions - (1. Amazing test of a simulation program, 2. Trying to replicate a low gravity environment, 3. did you know when they were attempting this they used actual digital scans of the moons surface?)
• Vision GT - (Visionary project between car manufacturers and the people, shows glimpses of each companies future ideas)
• Standards - (Well yes they might not be the best looking cars in the game but they offer some diversity and infinite choices to models, Personally my country in the game is displayed by 3 standard cars so I don't want them removed it would be awesome if they were updated I agree)

Just do not want to see amazing one-off's disappear into Gran Turismo's Storage box.

Examples:

Cars
Benz Patent Motorwagen, 1886 (Gran Turismo 4)
Daimler Motor Carriage, 1886 (Gran Turismo 4)
Ferrari F10, 2012 (Gran Turismo 5)
Ferrari F2007, 2007 (Gran Turismo 5)
Ford Model T Tourer, 1915 (Gran Turismo 4)
Toyota Pod Concept, 2001 (Gran Turismo Concept Tokyo-Geneva 2001)

Tracks
Circuit de la Comunitat Valeciana Ricardo Tormo (Gran Turismo PSP)
Driving Park: Complex String (Gran Turismo 3)
Pod Racing Circuit (Gran Turismo Concept Tokyo-Geneva 2001)
Other Missing Circuits Refer to Gran Turismo Wiki

Everything in bold I will say this

1. Red Bull great that they partnered with them, but honestly me I could careless in fact I know other racing games partnered with a lot of sponsors too, but it's just like a couple of events. I think only true reason most care is money payout I could be wrong.

2. I'm not to mad about that one they are good for the game, but problem is for a guy like me don't even know who he was(hence why I keep saying I'm a casual racing fan). Seriously the first time I heard Hudson Hornet was Disney's Cars

3. Moon Missions..............................................I have no words

4. Vision GT while they look great(depending on what it is) to me it's another gimmick that I could do without, and honestly no other racing game I've played(As of now) over promotes Concept Cars like that it's nice again to look at, but I guess if they had their own fantasy/real world circuits for them maybe I would feel a little better about them.

5. Standards they are now right now not a few days later, but right now exactly 10 years old.

Gran Turismo 4 came out this month in NA(for those like me that live here) Feburary of 2005 on Playstation 2 it was one thing to have the excuse of standards in GT5 it's another with GT6 and now ultimately it's PD being lazy with GT7. Keeping Standards won't be the end of the world, but dam*** I'm deducting points just for keeping them for now 2 generations. I'd rather feel like I'm playing a Playstation 4 or Playstation 3 game then playing a Playstation 2 game(Although PS2 ain't bad(GOAT) I miss mine's da****). Cause no one else has been doing it look around the landscape I've never seen another series try to keep stuff from Playstation 2 era.

 

[NLxAROSA]

... does anyone else feel that PD should really, REALLY concentrate on quality and consistency this time.

I wish they would focus on something.

But for PS4 at least! As I already mentioned in this post, once again, PD is making questionable decisions with regards to where their focus should be. Instead of focusing on the current-gen platform (where all competition is already operating), they focus on the previous-gen platform, on a title that's no longer a system-seller and most people already have (so no extra revenue there either). To NOT have your focus on GT on PS4, but instead have your main focus on GT6 on PS3 is just insane.

So we're looking at a Christmas 2016 release of GT7 for PS4 at the soonest. Most likely it will be a year later. Unless PD is planning a GT6-remake for PS4, they're going to lag behind even further than they are now.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Um...YEEEESSSSSS!!!
Heck, they honestly should have considered that before, as well as outsourcing for help.

 

[Imari]

4. Vision GT while they look great(depending on what it is) to me it's another gimmick that I could do without, and honestly no other racing game I've played(As of now) over promotes Concept Cars like that it's nice again to look at, but I guess if they had their own fantasy/real world circuits for them maybe I would feel a little better about them.

I think VGTs were a decent idea that was mismanaged. If it had been a new concept car every two weeks like clockwork, with associated media and a unique and interesting event to showcase it, then that would have been awesome. A whole year of that? Yes, please.

As it was, we got less than half that, on a fairly random schedule. Mostly random events not related to the cars or their manufacturers. Could have been great and a real draw to keep people logging in regularly, but it wasn't.

 

[Zuku]

I think VGTs were a decent idea that was mismanaged. If it had been a new concept car every two weeks like clockwork, with associated media and a unique and interesting event to showcase it, then that would have been awesome. A whole year of that? Yes, please.

As it was, we got less than half that, on a fairly random schedule. Mostly random events not related to the cars or their manufacturers. Could have been great and a real draw to keep people logging in regularly, but it wasn't.

You're right and I'm not downing the concept of VGT, but just with everything else they were exciting, but mismanaged as you've stated. In fact wasn't it suppose to be like 20 of those cars entirely how many are out after a year?

I'll go back and say this about the moon missions you know why I hate them/dislike them it's more to do with the rest of the game then the missions itself.

Had this been long ago back in PS2/PS1 days probably been the coolest **** in the world, but it's like taking a game like Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 with the Skater Heaven level, but instead of the other parts of the game being good it's like they just through it in.

I don't know how to explain that better, but basically the moon missions aren't bad just that the rest of the game is so meh(IMO) that I just go seriously moon missions. Instead if I(IMO) felt GT6 was a good game I'd probably be like moon missions **** let me take a break and check this out.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't know how to explain that better, but basically the moon missions aren't bad just that the rest of the game is so meh(IMO) that I just go seriously moon missions. Instead if I(IMO) felt GT6 was a good game I'd probably be like moon missions **** let me take a break and check this out.

This is the core issue for me. When the core of the game is "meh", then you look at everything else differently. Instead of, "oh cool, I can drive on the moon" it becomes, "why are we driving on the moon when we don't even have a full flag system in the racing portion of the game?". VGT's, which I agree was a great idea on paper and was very enthusiastic about from the beginning, starts as, "Oh cool, we can drive these cars before anyone else in the world", to, "VGT's are great but where is all the real car DLC?"

When the core of the game is ignored or not taken care of or doesn't advance like we feel it should, then you begin to question all the other decisions made around the franchise. This is only natural IMO and seems a more and more common theme in these GT forums.

 

[mister dog]

For many years now we've been spending so much energy talking about which direction they should take, and what they need to fix that it starts to sound like a broken record. If you look at how 6 evolved from the criticism that was broadly laid out in many posts on many forums after 5, mentioning those same series flaws that date from long before 5 even... And it only got worse! Kazunori is like a blind man lost in the woods thinking he is still on the right path.


It's useless, and frankly i think we shouldn't care or hope anymore IMO. We'll see when 7 is eventually released if it's another joke, or if it will positively surprise us (which i doubt).

 

[Zuku]

For many years now we've been spending so much energy talking about which direction they should take, and what they need to fix that it starts to sound like a broken record. If you look at how 6 evolved from the criticism that was broadly laid out in many posts on many forums after 5, mentioning those same series flaws that date from long before 5 even... And it only got worse! Kazunori is like a blind man lost in the woods thinking he is still on the right path.


It's useless, and frankly i think we shouldn't care or hope anymore IMO. We'll see when 7 is eventually released if it's another joke, or if it will positively surprise us (which i doubt).

In that case I'd keep it on the neutral train that's what I'm doing now hearing things like standards staying again that worries me, but you know having other racing games to hold over really helps out.

On the quality part even getting the A.I right in the game would completely overhaul how I felt about this game, and PD in general. Even if that means rubberbanding I know people hate that term, but if it's the difference between some kind of competition vs. what we got right now I'll take it.

PD/Kaz have that car count crap far up their ***** that they can't think straight having 1197 cars(probably going north of 1400 for GT7) is ridiculous for the simple fact that god knows I'll never use them all in fact if they had a graph(or some kind of measurement to tell) I guarantee at least 500 of the cars are rarely used in GT5 and GT6 and even(say 200) GT4, but at least with GT4 the pass I give it is that so many tracks, and events for said cars.

 

[mister dog]

Even if they would see the light all of a sudden and dump the rabbits for a normal fixed start grid again, it would be too little to late as 95% of other racing games have that. They would still be running behind on aspects like sounds, career mode, game modes, customization options, community features, a fresh car list...

Only if they would magically fix all those things and implement all those features they will be on par with the Forza series again, but it would add nothing to what FM already provides to it's players anno 2015.

 

[Zuku]

Even if they would see the light all of a sudden and dump the rabbits for a normal fixed start grid again, it would be too little to late as 95% of other racing games have that. They would still be running behind on aspects like sounds, career mode, game modes, customization options, community features, a fresh car list...

Only if they would magically fix all those things and implement all those features they will be on par with the Forza series again, but it would add nothing to what FM already provides to it's players anno 2015.

In bold if they didn't fix it all, but could get these things done correct trust me it wouldn't be too little to late, and not saying those other features aren't important, but GT is one of those games where (IMHO) Online mode could have technically derailed the crap out of it, or at least they weren't ready for it, and it was put in because we(not me) complained about it so much, and now this is the fruit of it.

Not saying online mode is bad, but an argument could be made that had they focused....................nevermind an argument could be made for just about anything concerning this game lol.

I'd even go extra length to say they could take out damage and online for GT7(time being) and get certain things straighten out like you've mention and others have penalty/flag system, standing stars, atmosphere/environment(see Grid Autosport for example), A.I, etc etc.

That would at least get it back up in the standings.

 

[mister dog]

Not saying online mode is bad, but an argument could be made that had they focused....................nevermind an argument could be made for just about anything concerning this game lol.

Indeed and we've heard them all

I'd even go extra length to say they could take out damage and online for GT7(time being) and get certain things straighten out like you've mention and others have penalty/flag system, standing stars, atmosphere/environment(see Grid Autosport for example), A.I, etc etc.

That would at least get it back up in the standings.

Maybe hardcore fans would accept them taking out features to straighten out other ones, but most people won't as we are already used to games that can deliver a complete package. And thanks for reminding me; no damage model is also unacceptable in what will be probably a 2016 racing game

 

[Castrol96]

One thing I'm worried is that PD focus on the Graphics too much that the FPS will not be at dead 60!

 

[Mike_grpA]

I think we can all agree that they probably have to change 90% of gt6 for gt7... I think we can probably also agree they are more likely to change about 10% of it and think that'll be good enough

 

[Castrol96]

PD Seriously needs a greater modelling team. They need to stop finding methods to big up the car list by porting standards and using Base Models. So it takes "6 months to make a premium car" and it took 3 years to make 6 tracks Seriously???!

- Are they being lazy?; Or their just hiding something? -

I do 3D modelling and it doesn't seem that hard, not trying to say i'm the best but I don't see the struggle for PD?

 

[Zuku]

PD Seriously needs a greater modelling team. They need to stop finding methods to big up the car list by porting standards and using Base Models. So it takes "6 months to make a premium car" and it took 3 years to make 6 tracks Seriously???!

- Are they being lazy?; Or their just hiding something? -

I do 3D modelling and it doesn't seem that hard, not trying to say i'm the best but I don't see the struggle for PD?

Think they have hired.

If you want the conspiracy theory man it's...

On a serious note my own theory is that this is what happens once you've kinda done the most and were king of the hill for the longest.

As much as I can say I hate both GT5/GT6 at least for GT5 sake it did sell 10 mil copies.

Personally it's PD IMHO getting lazy throughout that entire era GT1-GT5 so from 1998-2010 name one racing game besides GT that was just the **** and everyone had to have it?

Forza and GRID just only entered my radar recently with Forza 3 and GRID 2(Which I have neither except GRID 1 and GAS).

Then someone like Forza(Turn 10) and GRID(Codemasters) come along and start building enough to make some serious noise, and now we're here. All the excuses again this is only my opinion is to keep fans stringing along so they won't think certain things like the being lazy part, and I don't mean they are actually lazy just lazy game design, or of priorities etc.

 

[SimTourist]

PD Seriously needs a greater modelling team. They need to stop finding methods to big up the car list by porting standards and using Base Models. So it takes "6 months to make a premium car" and it took 3 years to make 6 tracks Seriously???!

- Are they being lazy?; Or their just hiding something? -

I do 3D modelling and it doesn't seem that hard, not trying to say i'm the best but I don't see the struggle for PD?

Actually it takes everyone 6 months to model a car these days, I've seen this stated by Turn10 and SMS too. A track normally takes from 9 months to a year. This **** ain't easy man. The way to deal with this is to hire more modelers, either in-house or outsources. This why it takes GT 3 years to add 100 cars, and takes T10 just one year, they just hire more manpower, the actual time it takes to model a car is the same for every studio.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Which is why I'm going to keep repeating myself and say that PD must OUTSOURCE!!

I wish they would, I know they like keeping things in house, but for the sake of GT's future; it would be better for them and us if they got some help.

 

[Imari]

Think they have hired.

I'm pretty sure they're still hiring. Last time I looked they still had positions open for CG artists and Technical artists, whatever those are. (They're on the Japanese side of the PD website).

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/recruitment/index.html

 

[05XR8]

Quality. We have two cars from Jay Leno's garage. We would need a separate game if PD were to add all his rides. I'd welcome it. There's even an NA MX-5 he's acquired from his brother.

Kaz has two Ford GTs, his 911, Skyline and I bet he has a '14 Sting Ray. Doesn't seem like he's much of a collector, but he has a good quality(notice not quantity) of cars. He should look at that. He would save face by removing the duplicates. We only have one version of the NC MX-5. There have been a host of special models plus bumper updates for it. So, scale back those to 1 NA. 1 NB. 1 NC. There's an NA MX-5 race car. That covers that.

1 R32. 1 R33. 1 R34. 1 R35. We have TC versions and SuperGT race cars, plus NISMO road versions. That covers that. We'd still have plenty cars to drive.

Another thing is Senna. We have his race suits, but we can't race against him. Imagine 15 other old karts in a circa 1980 race. That kind of consistency is lacking. We're given these treats, but only a one time thrill to use them.

 

[RobbiefromBC]

Quality. We have two cars from Jay Leno's garage. We would need a separate game if PD were to add all his rides. I'd welcome it. There's even an NA MX-5 he's acquired from his brother.

Kaz has two Ford GTs, his 911, Skyline and I bet he has a '14 Sting Ray. Doesn't seem like he's much of a collector, but he has a good quality(notice not quantity) of cars. He should look at that. He would save face by removing the duplicates. We only have one version of the NC MX-5. There have been a host of special models plus bumper updates for it. So, scale back those to 1 NA. 1 NB. 1 NC. There's an NA MX-5 race car. That covers that.

1 R32. 1 R33. 1 R34. 1 R35. We have TC versions and SuperGT race cars, plus NISMO road versions. That covers that. We'd still have plenty cars to drive.

Another thing is Senna. We have his race suits, but we can't race against him. Imagine 15 other old karts in a circa 1980 race. That kind of consistency is lacking. We're given these treats, but only a one time thrill to use them.

This makes too much sense, they'll never listen to you

 

[Zuku]

Actually it takes everyone 6 months to model a car these days, I've seen this stated by Turn10 and SMS too. A track normally takes from 9 months to a year. This **** ain't easy man. The way to deal with this is to hire more modelers, either in-house or outsources. This why it takes GT 3 years to add 100 cars, and takes T10 just one year, they just hire more manpower, the actual time it takes to model a car is the same for every studio.

Well if that's the case then yeah GT just needs more manpower isn't T10 like made up of at least 400-700 employees?
I know someone said that PD is only between 150-250 or something like that.

 

[SimTourist]

Well if that's the case then yeah GT just needs more manpower isn't T10 like made up of at least 400-700 employees?
I know someone said that PD is only between 150-250 or something like that.

80-100 in-house full time employees, hundreds of contractors across the globe. The studio alone is actually smaller than Polyphony.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well if that's the case then yeah GT just needs more manpower isn't T10 like made up of at least 400-700 employees?
I know someone said that PD is only between 150-250 or something like that.

Everyone tosses those numbers around about T10 but this interview paints the fullest picture of the dynamics of staffing at T10:

The story of Turn 10 is one of an amazing culture within Microsoft – a studio with a startup feel that began with a dream and now owns a blockbuster. But they still feel like a small, nimble team – they’re about 70 full-time employees, rising to 400 including contractors as the production effort rises during the game. In fact there is an amazing story behind the ecosystem of partners that Forza has helped to build.

They've obviously chosen a different approach to PD. A core team of half the size of PD and then that core team also oversees contractor input towards the end of the dev cycle. We don't know what the "400" refers to nor how long they work on the project so that total "man years" is still left to interpretation, but we know for certain they don't have hundreds of full time staff as is most often suggested.

Tree'd by @SimTourist

 

[Castrol96]

I wish I could work for PD, maybe some day? Or not?

 

[Harsk100]

Quality. We have two cars from Jay Leno's garage. We would need a separate game if PD were to add all his rides. I'd welcome it. There's even an NA MX-5 he's acquired from his brother.

Kaz has two Ford GTs, his 911, Skyline and I bet he has a '14 Sting Ray. Doesn't seem like he's much of a collector, but he has a good quality(notice not quantity) of cars. He should look at that. He would save face by removing the duplicates. We only have one version of the NC MX-5. There have been a host of special models plus bumper updates for it. So, scale back those to 1 NA. 1 NB. 1 NC. There's an NA MX-5 race car. That covers that.

1 R32. 1 R33. 1 R34. 1 R35. We have TC versions and SuperGT race cars, plus NISMO road versions. That covers that. We'd still have plenty cars to drive.

Another thing is Senna. We have his race suits, but we can't race against him. Imagine 15 other old karts in a circa 1980 race. That kind of consistency is lacking. We're given these treats, but only a one time thrill to use them.

I agree. The limited versions must be as trim options, not counting as twice! Once done, we would stay with:

Honda S2000 '99
Honda S2000 '06 (facelift)
Mazda MX-5 1.6 Special Package [NA] '89
Mazda MX-5 1.8i [NB] '00
Mazda MX-5 [NC] '07
Nissan 200SX [S14] '96
Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo [Z32] '89
Nissan 350Z [Z33] '02
Nissan Silvia K's 1800cc Dia Selection [S13] '90
Nissan Silvia Spec-R Aero [S15] '02
Nissan Skyline GT-R [R32] '89
Nissan Skyline GT-R [R33] '95
Nissan Skyline GT-R [R34] '99

 

[Zuku]

Everyone tosses those numbers around about T10 but this interview paints the fullest picture of the dynamics of staffing at T10:



They've obviously chosen a different approach to PD. A core team of half the size of PD and then that core team also oversees contractor input towards the end of the dev cycle. We don't know what the "400" refers to nor how long they work on the project so that total "man years" is still left to interpretation, but we know for certain they don't have hundreds of full time staff as is most often suggested.

Tree'd by @SimTourist

@SimTourist reference both of you

Welp learn something new every day still though PD should follow suit and just contract certain jobs even getting an extra 100 hands(well 200) would help it many areas.

@Castrol96

You could, or you could try to emulate/be like them look at T10 or these other newer studios I bet a lot of them played Gran Turismo or Motor Toon GP(Think that's what it was), and probably gave them inspiration to make these games they are right now.

 

[synon]

Personally it's PD IMHO getting lazy throughout that entire era GT1-GT5 so from 1998-2010 name one racing game besides GT that was just the **** and everyone had to have it?
.......
All the excuses again this is only my opinion is to keep fans stringing along so they won't think certain things like the being lazy part, and I don't mean they are actually lazy just lazy game design, or of priorities etc.

If you don't mean they are being lazy why use the word?
It appears you are calling them lazy just because you dislike the game.

Which is why I'm going to keep repeating myself and say that PD must OUTSOURCE!!

I wish they would, I know they like keeping things in house, but for the sake of GT's future; it would be better for them and us if they got some help.

Or they could hire more modellers which is what they appear to be doing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you don't mean they are being lazy why use the word?
It appears you are calling them lazy just because you dislike the game.

He gave you the context for the word.

I don't mean they are actually lazy just lazy game design, or of priorities etc.

 

[05XR8]

They can hire as many modellers as they want. What they have them do is a whole other thing. Hiring more workers could just mean we get 1240 cars all Premium and nothing new until 3 months later for DLC influx. Yes, we get all Premium cars, but how else will PD delegate? Will they have enough time to make Tuned variants? '15/'16 or '17 up to date race cars.

PS4 may make things easier for PD, but they've got to be clever this time around. PD need to lead this console genre.

You know what? I'd have no problem with PD making Gran Turismo Silver/Yellow/Red Edition, Special GT-R Edition, GT ACADEMY Edition or whatever. All in game cars should have the same high quality finish on the exterior Full Stop

 

[05XR8]

Kaz has two Ford GTs, his 911, Skyline and I bet he has a '14 Sting Ray. Doesn't seem like he's much of a collector, but he has a good quality(notice not quantity) of cars.

Here we go from gtplanet news just then:

Kazunori also shared an update about the cars in his personal garage, though he notes it hasn’t changed in quite some time now: two Ford GTs, a Porsche 911 GT3, Mercedes SLS AMG, Honda S2000, and Nissan GT-R.

And this

“The actual process of putting the car in the game takes about six months, but the time period in which we see concepts from manufacturers can be up to two years in advance…”

The cars may not take 6months to model. Just the time from pics, scanning, *cough* sounds to finished product.