- 296
It's that re-definition I'm querying.
Of course, any word you use you can re-define to mean whatever you want, but some might query why you are doing so.
Should PD focus more on quality and consistency next time?
- Thread starter Strittan
- 204 comments
- 11,307 views
It's that re-definition I'm querying.
Of course, any word you use you can re-define to mean whatever you want, but some might query why you are doing so.
- 8,698
I, too, would like to know what "lazy game design" means, and how it pertains to the quality of the cars.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
More so a generalization of PD in general not so much the quality of the cars I'm basically calling them out. Even still it doesn't make sense that tracks take as long as the person I was referring to stated. That technically is lazy, and if they aren't being lazy then my god that's just awful.
- 8,698
If you say so; I'm not qualified to comment. Although that last sentence is very "hedging"; contradictory, even.
I do feel at least somewhat qualified to comment on the sound aspect, which I often hear described as lazy as well, but I know for a fact that what PD have done is far from the lazy option. It can be seen in the overall graphical direction, too, which is probably clear to most.
Obviously, neither of those are game design, per se, although technology always has game design implications, as we'll see with the sound.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Everyone is qualified to comment on anything if you disagree with what I said hey I can't even get mad. I may have said it in an awkward way though, but still really when I'm saying the lazy comment it's more directed at PD themselves. I shouldn't say they are lazy either, but I couldn't think of the other word at the time busy doing a lot of other things.
Still when looking into a game from 2007 or 2008 has PD beat on quality at this point(certain areas). At least for GT6 sake I just looked at two side-by-side comparison of Pcars and GT6 from Mount Panorama that was back in November the video, but there is a drastic difference not on the cars at least, but just scenery etc. I'll have to find it though.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
- 1,545
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
That's an excuse that gets tired though what about the codemaster games or even just other games period. Only Gt6 gets that excuse, and I need to see videos of Gt6 vs Ps3 counterparts before I judge to harshly.
- 1,545
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Yet didn't we just go over that GT6 is 900p and frames aren't locked at 60 fps even Johnny stated it goes from 40-60 in certain parts.
Actually if you want to go that far in the PS3 era those things aren't even that important. A lot of games proved that over the years.
My response to you on that other post was how you're using AC, Pcars, and Forza 5 what about Forza 4, Grid Autosport(could have gone next-gen, but didn't), F1 series of games on PS3 etc.
That's all on PD/Kaz for wanting to try 1080p and 60 fps on an ancient console(as you guys call it).
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F1jocker12
(Banned)
- 490
- Minneapolis
- GTSC_F1jocker12
I'll give you an opinion from a different place:
seattle6418 says:
I really believe that they just lost it and they won´t be able to ship a game in 2015 or 2016. The sim market has changed a lot and PC sims are much more friendly these days, not to mention they are coming to the consoles as well.
I had the same impression as Pask had when talking to Kazunori and translator san. It seems like they feel betrayed or just disconnected with their fan base.
It´s almost as if they expected loyalty or GT to be treated as a religion when in fact it´s just a product. Once something else gives you a better experience, you just move on.
Games like Assetto Corsa, Pcars and Raceroom are giving continuous slaps in their face and they keep acting like they can do no wrong.
I think it´s pretty clear what happened: back in 1998 they made us believe that a sim racer was possible. What they did was exactly what most of us wanted.
Technology kept evolving but their dreams didn´t. What they did was good enough on PS2, but the shortcomings were too much to be ignored in the PS3 era.
Now it´s all hit and miss, their priorities are all just plain wrong and the big thing is they are not the only ones in town. There´s people giving you the scale of a GT game in Forza, they can´t play the graphics card anymore because Pcars and such are beyond what they can do, they can´t play the physics card because an indie game like AC gives you stuff that GT hasn´t even dreamed so they are in a tough spot.
They don´t do stuff nobody else does anymore. Back in the day it was GT or just some ****** looking hard to understand and run PC sim. Everything in different these days, the market has spoken and GT6 was a colossal flop that they pretty much given up on it (except for the GT Vision thing that maybe a half dozen people care).
I think it´s a huge bummer because i don´t think they will get their mojo back. Most of their fanbase became way too hardcore for them and the casual players are also not interested on what they are giving.
We end up splitting, trying different sims and enjoying bits and bits of those games, but the idea of a game that has it all and does it all is finished because they never changed their approach.
They think it´s best to spend time modelling the inner parts of a headlamp and creating moon racers, and of course the market will adjust to this and respond in the only way it can: sales."
seattle6418 says:
I really believe that they just lost it and they won´t be able to ship a game in 2015 or 2016. The sim market has changed a lot and PC sims are much more friendly these days, not to mention they are coming to the consoles as well.
I had the same impression as Pask had when talking to Kazunori and translator san. It seems like they feel betrayed or just disconnected with their fan base.
It´s almost as if they expected loyalty or GT to be treated as a religion when in fact it´s just a product. Once something else gives you a better experience, you just move on.
Games like Assetto Corsa, Pcars and Raceroom are giving continuous slaps in their face and they keep acting like they can do no wrong.
I think it´s pretty clear what happened: back in 1998 they made us believe that a sim racer was possible. What they did was exactly what most of us wanted.
Technology kept evolving but their dreams didn´t. What they did was good enough on PS2, but the shortcomings were too much to be ignored in the PS3 era.
Now it´s all hit and miss, their priorities are all just plain wrong and the big thing is they are not the only ones in town. There´s people giving you the scale of a GT game in Forza, they can´t play the graphics card anymore because Pcars and such are beyond what they can do, they can´t play the physics card because an indie game like AC gives you stuff that GT hasn´t even dreamed so they are in a tough spot.
They don´t do stuff nobody else does anymore. Back in the day it was GT or just some ****** looking hard to understand and run PC sim. Everything in different these days, the market has spoken and GT6 was a colossal flop that they pretty much given up on it (except for the GT Vision thing that maybe a half dozen people care).
I think it´s a huge bummer because i don´t think they will get their mojo back. Most of their fanbase became way too hardcore for them and the casual players are also not interested on what they are giving.
We end up splitting, trying different sims and enjoying bits and bits of those games, but the idea of a game that has it all and does it all is finished because they never changed their approach.
They think it´s best to spend time modelling the inner parts of a headlamp and creating moon racers, and of course the market will adjust to this and respond in the only way it can: sales."
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Where did this come from?
lol unless otherwise stated I take it this is just an opinion piece though.
F1jocker12
(Banned)
- 490
- Minneapolis
- GTSC_F1jocker12
- 48,752
- Australia
I always wondered, how do people do that "Here" thing with the links?
I basically mentioned this "They think it´s best to spend time modelling the inner parts of a headlamp" in the GT7 Prediction thread.
- 2,130
- Porto
- JPSILVA1893
PD should do what they did with Gran Turismo 3 , it had around 180 cars (no duplicates) and 30 tracks , much less than what we have now but it still sold 15 million copies compared to GT6's 2-3 million copies, and 95/100 score in Metacritic.
I'm really tired of all the duplicated cars and standards . Turn 10 did everything from scratch with Forza 5 and the car list was good (track list not that much) . PD has to get rid of the old assets and make stuff from the ground up . Yes , they should use the premium car models 'cause those are really good looking , but standards need to go . Also some tracks look way better than others in GT6 , so they should spend some time upgrading the worst looking ones.
Quality over quantity is all i ask.
I'm really tired of all the duplicated cars and standards . Turn 10 did everything from scratch with Forza 5 and the car list was good (track list not that much) . PD has to get rid of the old assets and make stuff from the ground up . Yes , they should use the premium car models 'cause those are really good looking , but standards need to go . Also some tracks look way better than others in GT6 , so they should spend some time upgrading the worst looking ones.
Quality over quantity is all i ask.
- 1,545
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
I partially agree with this opinion, but I'm also willing to give them the benefit of doubt, Kaz has stated many times that PS3 was a chore to work with, not enough memory, not enough power to realize their potential, the rest of industry said as much but they were willing to drop down to lower resolutions/framerates in order to achieve their visions. Neither was an ideal approach and I'm glad that we're finally onto next gen. I think PD's ambition was held back greatly during last-ten, the fact that it was the longest one in history didn't help either. Now with PS4 I think they will be able to produce a great and polished GT title. If they don't, then yes, I'll gladly agree that PD has lost it, but until then I'll keep my pitchforks in the closet. I wouldn't claim that either GT5 or GT6 were great and polished titles, but they showed potential and many ideas that are far ahead of competition, so I think it's a bit too early to say that PD is dead.
- 1,545
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
Double post.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Okay, but I had that stated in another thread not long ago, but his response is better worded.
I pretty much said that PD had lost touch with the state of games today. It's telling when they are pushing just the cars themselves VGT(which as the guy stated only half a dozen people truly care). I don't agree it's a colassal flop because it's sold 2.5 million or more, but it's in a flop in the sense of what it is as a game.
Still as he's stated this has happened to me playing other games I don't even think it has to be a PC sims or a sim in general to pry away some of us it just has to be fun and be a game.
- 1,545
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
As a game by itself I think GT6 is mostly fine, but as a pinnacle of 10 years of continuous work of one of the most successful franchises in the world(since GT4's release) it's definitely a failure and several major steps back compared to their ps2 output.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Because they think by just adding things while most of the game remains unchanged just happens to work. Eventually that gives out I'm trying to think right now what has GT added to both games GT5 or GT6?
Photomode/B-spec is there Course Creator is like the newest thing that I know of seasonals(would you consider that though guess it's personal opinion), and Online(It was going to happen eventually).
So beyond those things what else has GT truly added? Well before I forget addition of cars on the grid(up from 6).
I think saying all that made me realize the stuff is there, but executed poorly we talk about 12 or 16 cars on track as rabbits(chase the rabbit or rolling blockade), and Course Creator is just missing in GT6 same with B-spec, and Seasonals again it's up for debate if that's a feature.
So looking at GT6 again I guess more in comparison of GT5 they really didn't add anything even GT4 added new features onto GT3.
- 8,698
Yes, "unqualified" people can comment on whatsoever they choose, but how can someone avoid making poor judgments because of their lack of expertise? What would that lack of expertise say of the expected quality and validity of the resulting opinion? It won't invalidate it by default, but it surely cannot be trusted implicitly - it must be explained. An opinion based on falsehoods is merely an extension of those falsehoods.
Maybe you should try harder to write what you mean and not be so lazy with your word choice.
- 2,701
- Italy
- Yellohead
- Clydeyellow
Yeah, but if you think the community applauded that move, think again.
Truth is, people who invest time and money in games nowadays are too busy being critics (in a bad way) to be gamers. Whatever the decision a developer will take, it will be met with harsh criticism.
IMO PD doesn't have to choose between quantity and quality. The problem up until now was that GT was the only racing IP exclusive to the Playstation - sure, there was Motorstorm, but Motorstorm was fantasy cars racing in very specific settings. Now they got DriveClub to convince car enthusiast to buy a PS4, and there's pCARS for those looking for a more realistic experience.
What PD should do is take their time; ditch the old assets and do the same kind of future-proofing T10 did with FM5, but without the massive step back in quantity T10 were forced to do to get a game ready in time for the X1's launch, because guess what - they missed the window of time in which the console is new by a wide margin already. What GT does that no other car game does is variety. The only reason people are unappreciative of ideas like VGT, or moon driving, is because PD is severely underdelivering in key areas.
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
Don't know about the variety part in the sense that the only thing is GT has everyday cars andkart racing. As your last part says that is pretty much the problem. The underdelivering and I'll just say neglected parts. Like Rallying, F1 etc. Some of the things I get it the license can't be gotten and what not, but for what they do have. That's where problems come in.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Will be interesting to see how Sony deals with GT7, Naughty Dog and Polyphony seem to be the gods of first party studios were Sony lets them have complete freedom to do whatever they want, so wonder if they'll "suggest" some stuff to PD this time, seeing as this generation it has been all about what the players want.
- 1,545
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
Sony won't suggest anything. Kaz is on the board of directors, I would imagine he's good pals with Shu Yoshida, Kaz Hirai and other higher ups. They've been together since the very beginning and I bet they have great respect for Kaz and what GT means for PS as a platform. Nobody will get in the way of Kaz's vision, for better or for worse.
- 15,529
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
@SimTourist I wouldn't be so sure, I wouldn't say they forced anything but maybe they've been suggestion some stuff.
F1jocker12
(Banned)
- 490
- Minneapolis
- GTSC_F1jocker12
PD would have another big chance to improve Gran Turismo into the next great "Driving Simulator" as long as Sony wants to focus more on Playstation projects and ditch the TV and Mobile phone units...... Or Not!!!!
- 8,698
Chasing profit on SEN is not the same as making a new GT game, necessarily. At least, I hope it won't be.
Strittan
Premium
- 3,968
- Sweden
- Strittan
It's not true that T10 started from scratch with FM5 though, and it amazes me how people fail to see this. They transferred a lot of cars from FM4, and even released some FM4 cars as DLC, and they look exactly like they did in FM4. As for GT7, PD does not have to ditch a single one of the premium cars from GT6. If you take a look at any of them in photo travel they still look amazing.
That is a very valid reason though, isn't it? Another reason for ya would be that moon driving is boring and plain stupid.
