- 1,245
- Greece
should the online saving be axed?
- Thread starter imported_rik19
- 86 comments
- 5,650 views
- 27,385
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
I'm shocked it took almost an entire page for that to be said.
The online saving is easily the worst aspect of the game. Locking people out of practically everything, including Scapes and liveries, is a pants-on-head dumb idea.
- 1,777
- Florida, USA
The problem here while other games are just fixing bugs, this was intentional design by PD, are they really going to allow offline saves or muddle around trying to solve the problem on the other end, still leaving gameplay vulnerable to there newer solution, instead of doing the obvious thing.
- 574
- Daytona Beach
- sloppysmusic
I reckon it's an FIA thing. They probably put NO OFFLINE SAVES in the contract. PD replied but we can use advanced encryption. FIA repeated. NO OFFLINE SAVES SORRY THAT'S POLICY.
- 1,245
- Greece
Any reason behind that (or evidence)?
- 2,066
- San Antonio, Texas
- Obi-Tonobi
NO, but you should be able to save on your PS4 when the servers are down and then auto upload once the servers are back up.
I like the online save. Lets PD scan files for hacked cars and other files. Lets them screen liveries for inappropriate words and graphics. Got to be able to keep it clean for all people. Can you only imagine the graphics and slogans on cars if there was no check and balance. I don't need to see that going around the race track.
I like the online save. Lets PD scan files for hacked cars and other files. Lets them screen liveries for inappropriate words and graphics. Got to be able to keep it clean for all people. Can you only imagine the graphics and slogans on cars if there was no check and balance. I don't need to see that going around the race track.
- 310
- Bikini Bottom
- FueledByMisery
- SomeRandomAce
A concise explanation would be great, but this is PD that we talking about, with historically zero or less amount of communication to its fans.
- 6,344
- Nantes
- P308R
- 1,028
- Ohio
- jimmyfoxhound
Yes it should, taking the entire game away when not online is SO frustrating. I get home from work last night and settle in for some racing and me and my friend couldn't play or do anything because of the server issues. I shelved the game and played something else but man, I've been excited for so long to finally get to play and to have the game in my hands but just because online isn't accessible the whole game is locked down just put me off so badly.
- 574
- Daytona Beach
- sloppysmusic
No evidence just conjecture. Couldnt think of any other reason for a major long term game developer to commit corporate suicide.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,259
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
I'll buy this game once the save is fixed, not before, and that sucks because I really enjoyed the demo (when the servers, oh you know).
1. They could copy protect the offline save and sync with the online save.
2. They could force a selection of non tunable cars to use - as they DO in Gr.3/4 races for Sport Mode to protect from modified saves.
There is no reason for the game to work like this. It has to be fixed as a priority.
1. They could copy protect the offline save and sync with the online save.
2. They could force a selection of non tunable cars to use - as they DO in Gr.3/4 races for Sport Mode to protect from modified saves.
There is no reason for the game to work like this. It has to be fixed as a priority.
- 1,433
- Northern Ireland
I just remembered today that Sony restricts the amount of storage any game is allowed to take up with save files - 1gb is the limit I think. I don't know how PD stores content like photos, replays, liveries - is it in local storage permanently, stored online but 'cached' locally, or entirely online? If it's the latter two that may explain the strict online requirement for things like scapes and the livery editor - PD store this content for you, essentially as a workaround to Sony's imposed save limits.
But I'm really just guessing. @Scaff @Famine or other Playstation knowledgeables, does this sound plausible?
But I'm really just guessing. @Scaff @Famine or other Playstation knowledgeables, does this sound plausible?
- 146
- Switzerland
I didnt even recognize it saves online. But i am totally fine with that. Less cheaters who can manipulate Data on their PS4. When i remember the cheaters in GT6 omg no thanks. And also when your ps4 dies you still have all data online. Also i like the same system for my apple products. New hardware and few minutes later i get all data back.
Never had a error message or lag in Switzerland. I understand however in some regions of the world is no good/stable connection. And also understand, some players are annoyed by that.
Never had a error message or lag in Switzerland. I understand however in some regions of the world is no good/stable connection. And also understand, some players are annoyed by that.
skygkar
Premium
- 131
- Lyon/FR
- skygkar
Online save only should be axed: say you play a 2h endurance race and they post an update of the game during your race (like this night...), at the end of the race you can't save your progress / replay whatever. Very frustrating! I just can't imagine what it will be like if this happens during a 5h or more endurance race 
- 1,291
- Vermont, USA
- GTP_Superwally, supahwally
I voted no. The locked saves are a result of the FIA tie-in. I like no cheating and knowing that the times posted are legit. It's fundamental to the game they wanted to build. The server downtimes are expected, it's the first week. If they can't get it sorted in a few months, then I'll have a problem, because downtime should be minimized, although expecting it to be totally eliminated is foolish.
Right now? Give them a break, just like everyone is doing with PCars2, which has entirely different issues.
Can any of you who voted yes explain how to keep cheaters away without locking the gamesave online? Tons of whining here, no solutions or suggestions.
Right now? Give them a break, just like everyone is doing with PCars2, which has entirely different issues.
Can any of you who voted yes explain how to keep cheaters away without locking the gamesave online? Tons of whining here, no solutions or suggestions.
- 1,054
- Braga, Portugal
- pedrocor
Yes, it should. At least cache saving, uploading when possible.
And things like Livery Editor and Scapes should be usable offline too.
Even Campaign mode could be done offline, apart from the missions you have to race your own car, if the problem is cheating.
As it is, the game is rather useless when the servers are down (and there where three times in the first week) or you are having troubles with connection.
And things like Livery Editor and Scapes should be usable offline too.
Even Campaign mode could be done offline, apart from the missions you have to race your own car, if the problem is cheating.
As it is, the game is rather useless when the servers are down (and there where three times in the first week) or you are having troubles with connection.
- 5,741
- USA
- TPC_Raccooon23
- CRaccoon23
- 3,232
- Blackpool
- ghostrider135
Scapes have nothing to do with car performance or ability to cheat.
Livery creation has nothing to do with car performance or ability to cheat.
License tests and other such "campaign" stuff has nothing to do with car performance or ability to cheat.
Online only saving should never have been in the game to begin with and it deserves to perform badly because of it, If EA and Ubisoft do something then it generally isn't good for the players.
Livery creation has nothing to do with car performance or ability to cheat.
License tests and other such "campaign" stuff has nothing to do with car performance or ability to cheat.
Online only saving should never have been in the game to begin with and it deserves to perform badly because of it, If EA and Ubisoft do something then it generally isn't good for the players.
- 1,291
- Vermont, USA
- GTP_Superwally, supahwally
Yeah, that's not what I'm looking for, you think PD don't know that? It's pretty basic.
PD had to know locking saves online only would be a potential issue for consumers, and might have a negative affect on sales. They have to get it exactly right. I don't think they had a choice! Everything hinges on the network being stable and if it isn't, GTSport is pointless-you think PD don't know this?
Instead of crying about it, I'm waiting to see how it shakes out. I think most people are still upset this isn't GT7.
- 1,903
- valencia
- Donnced
1 - the online savings was implemented in the closed beta version 1.06..
2 - cheating was still possible in setting times on tracks like big willow where you could cut half of the track.
3 - a solution for the save file is make a denying system that allows copying it to a USB stick and done...
Cause The car cheating in the other GT was done with the save file that you moved to a USB stick, to a Program in PC,and back to the console..
This is what happens when the servers go down and you can't save offline 
I grind away for the 1,000,000 drift points.
Managed to achieve it (notice the time, 5:02am UK time, when the servers went down) and upon exiting got the message I couldn't connect to the servers. Then 1.03 starts downloading.
Log in now and the points I managed didn't save
Oh well, back to the grind i guess
I grind away for the 1,000,000 drift points.
Managed to achieve it (notice the time, 5:02am UK time, when the servers went down) and upon exiting got the message I couldn't connect to the servers. Then 1.03 starts downloading.
Log in now and the points I managed didn't save
Oh well, back to the grind i guess
Attachments
- 441
- Living in your walls
- oli440
(Just to prevent confusion, I made a similar thread to this, but it has since been merged with this one. The following is what I originally wrote for that thread).
I don't believe this has been discussed, but if it has, feel free to redirect me to the relevant thread.
I'm not a server expert, but I do believe that one of GT Sports biggest problems is the always online aspect. Yes, the servers will improve over time, but I can't help but feel frustrated when I have to upload a livery online just to use it myself, and I'm met with constant failures to connect to the server. It really grinds my gears.... This is just one, of the many features which are locked away from us if we are not connected to the servers.
With this in mind, Should PD release an update which restructures the game to better support offline functionality? Why not do single player races, work on, save and use liveries or take pictures of cars in scapes? Better yet, why can't we save our games offline?
I get the fact they are trying to remove cheaters from the equation, but surely they could regulate it regardless of whether or not the game is always online? If you have cheaters, target the cheaters directly, rather than trying to build a service to suppress them and consequently make the experience more limited and thus less enjoyable for everybody else. There might be only one troublemaker in the class, but keeping the whole class behind because one person can't admit their misbehaviour is hardly fair for all but one of the classmates. In other words, 'Always online' might be the easiest solution, but certainly not the best.
Chances are, the developers won't have the time or care to make this change. Like I said, I'm no server expert, so for all I know, it would involve a complete overhaul of the game which would be just too much effort for a simple update. Either that's actually the case or rather that's the excuse they'd use.... But what if?
It's a great shame that I have to discuss this, because it's turned what would have been a good game into a mediocre one, for me at least. Don't get me wrong, I still like the game and intend to continue playing for what it is, but 'patching' the always online aspect would make the experience all the more satisfying.
I am still passionate about Gran Turismo, but in order for the franchise to continue moving forward in the way we want, constructive criticism is necessary.
In a similar context, here's a Jim Sterling video which discusses the issues of the always online Diablo 3.
I don't believe this has been discussed, but if it has, feel free to redirect me to the relevant thread.
I'm not a server expert, but I do believe that one of GT Sports biggest problems is the always online aspect. Yes, the servers will improve over time, but I can't help but feel frustrated when I have to upload a livery online just to use it myself, and I'm met with constant failures to connect to the server. It really grinds my gears.... This is just one, of the many features which are locked away from us if we are not connected to the servers.
With this in mind, Should PD release an update which restructures the game to better support offline functionality? Why not do single player races, work on, save and use liveries or take pictures of cars in scapes? Better yet, why can't we save our games offline?
I get the fact they are trying to remove cheaters from the equation, but surely they could regulate it regardless of whether or not the game is always online? If you have cheaters, target the cheaters directly, rather than trying to build a service to suppress them and consequently make the experience more limited and thus less enjoyable for everybody else. There might be only one troublemaker in the class, but keeping the whole class behind because one person can't admit their misbehaviour is hardly fair for all but one of the classmates. In other words, 'Always online' might be the easiest solution, but certainly not the best.
Chances are, the developers won't have the time or care to make this change. Like I said, I'm no server expert, so for all I know, it would involve a complete overhaul of the game which would be just too much effort for a simple update. Either that's actually the case or rather that's the excuse they'd use.... But what if?
It's a great shame that I have to discuss this, because it's turned what would have been a good game into a mediocre one, for me at least. Don't get me wrong, I still like the game and intend to continue playing for what it is, but 'patching' the always online aspect would make the experience all the more satisfying.
I am still passionate about Gran Turismo, but in order for the franchise to continue moving forward in the way we want, constructive criticism is necessary.
In a similar context, here's a Jim Sterling video which discusses the issues of the always online Diablo 3.
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- 60
- The Netherlands
- Nick-Chronic
- Nick Chronic
yes this online saving is stupid , we need to be able to save arcade mode when servers are down
- 473
- United Kingdom
I think this is a difficult issue.
On one hand, you have the disconnection issues mentioned.
On the other hand, you have an online game, it makes sense to store all the data centrally.
For example, lets take liveries. You make a livery and then enter a race, there are 10 other people in the race.
Every client machine (the PS4s) need every livery, so they can all display every car in the race correctly.
If the liveries are stored online, this is pretty easy - in one go the server can find all the liveries and push them down to each client in one go.
If you had a peer to peer system each client would have to send its livery to every other client and them to you. There is simply no way thats going to be quicker. Repeat this for every bit of information - your flag, DR rating, SR rating, tyres, fuel level, car set up.. it could take a very long time to set up a race (anyone ever complained about GTA online being slow??).
So, data being online is the way to go. So what can we do if the system goes down.. cache locally maybe ? Well ok, but how does that work ?
Client tries to save to the server, but is unable to. So, it saves locally and when it can reconnect it syncs with the server.
There is a complication - some updates to the save data are made not by the client (e.g. a livery) but are made by the server. For example:
Server save fails - game saves locally.
Player changes a car livery, does a driving school test etc. All saved locally.
Player then finds that they can enter a daily race, however unknown to them it still hasn't saved.
Race finishes, player has done well, the algorithm on the server pushes their SR rating from C to B. Now the server has a change to save.
Save game server is now available - now what ? what does it save? the data from the client ? or the server ?
The answer is it has to do both. That means it has to merge the two saves together and commit them. Thats a difficult thing to do, if you get it wrong you can screw up the game save data completely.
I don't think there is a "perfect" solution. GTA Online takes the exact opposite approach - if it is unable to save to the server it puts a message on screen and lets the player continue - if the player shuts the game down before it can contact the server they lose any progress - maybe this is better ?
Ultimately I don't think there is a perfect solution. What will help is ensuring the infrastructure on the server side has 99.999% uptime and making the save data as small as possible - compression, efficient data formats and so on - this will only do so much as the client connection still has to be relied on, but every little bit helps though.
As always, things are never simple as they first appear.
On one hand, you have the disconnection issues mentioned.
On the other hand, you have an online game, it makes sense to store all the data centrally.
For example, lets take liveries. You make a livery and then enter a race, there are 10 other people in the race.
Every client machine (the PS4s) need every livery, so they can all display every car in the race correctly.
If the liveries are stored online, this is pretty easy - in one go the server can find all the liveries and push them down to each client in one go.
If you had a peer to peer system each client would have to send its livery to every other client and them to you. There is simply no way thats going to be quicker. Repeat this for every bit of information - your flag, DR rating, SR rating, tyres, fuel level, car set up.. it could take a very long time to set up a race (anyone ever complained about GTA online being slow??).
So, data being online is the way to go. So what can we do if the system goes down.. cache locally maybe ? Well ok, but how does that work ?
Client tries to save to the server, but is unable to. So, it saves locally and when it can reconnect it syncs with the server.
There is a complication - some updates to the save data are made not by the client (e.g. a livery) but are made by the server. For example:
Server save fails - game saves locally.
Player changes a car livery, does a driving school test etc. All saved locally.
Player then finds that they can enter a daily race, however unknown to them it still hasn't saved.
Race finishes, player has done well, the algorithm on the server pushes their SR rating from C to B. Now the server has a change to save.
Save game server is now available - now what ? what does it save? the data from the client ? or the server ?
The answer is it has to do both. That means it has to merge the two saves together and commit them. Thats a difficult thing to do, if you get it wrong you can screw up the game save data completely.
I don't think there is a "perfect" solution. GTA Online takes the exact opposite approach - if it is unable to save to the server it puts a message on screen and lets the player continue - if the player shuts the game down before it can contact the server they lose any progress - maybe this is better ?
Ultimately I don't think there is a perfect solution. What will help is ensuring the infrastructure on the server side has 99.999% uptime and making the save data as small as possible - compression, efficient data formats and so on - this will only do so much as the client connection still has to be relied on, but every little bit helps though.
As always, things are never simple as they first appear.
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