So what's new Physics wise?

[Multiracer]

Good lord... i can't stand this 'GT has sooooo much better physics than FM 3'-**** anymore.

Yes, some FM 3-cars are easier to drive than their GT 5-counterparts, but that doesn't mean its less realistic. In fact, it's the other way around.

For example: I drove a Mazda RX8 some time ago (in real life). And this car plain SUCKS in GT. Not only is the engine sound absolutely wrong (do you guys know what a rotary engine is?), no, it also drives like on soft soap! Everytime you accelerate in a turn (slight, not full throttle), the car understeers like crazy! This, my friends, is absolutely NOT realistic.

Forza 3 may not be the epidome of realism as well (several PC-sims are way better), but its hands down more realistic than GT.

Everytime i read that 'GT 5 is the MOST REALISTIC GAME EVER'-crap, i just think half of you guys must be children who haven't driven a real car in their whole live. Seriously.

And by the way, don't get my wrong: I realy LIKE GT 5 for its massive content and all (even bought the Signature Edition), but i just had to say this.

PS: Not a native english speaker here, so please don't mock me for spelling errors.

 

[newbielives]

What speeds were you driving in real life vs in game. My lowly Subaru Impreza TS feels faster than all the ferrari's in any sim game because well you feel the G's but that doesn't mean my car is actually fast

Good lord... i can't stand this 'GT has sooooo much better physics than FM 3'-**** anymore.

Yes, some FM 3-cars are easier to drive than their GT 5-counterparts, but that doesn't mean its less realistic. In fact, it's the other way around.

For example: I drove a Mazda RX8 some time ago (in real life). And this car plain SUCKS in GT. Not only is the engine sound absolutely wrong (do you guys know what a rotary engine is?), no, it also drives like on soft soap! Everytime you accelerate in a turn (slight, not full throttle), the car understeers like crazy! This, my friends, is absolutely NOT realistic.

Forza 3 may not be the epidome of realism as well (several PC-sims are way better), but its hands down more realistic than GT.

Everytime i read that 'GT 5 is the MOST REALISTIC GAME EVER'-crap, i just think half of you guys must be children who haven't driven a real car in their whole live. Seriously.

And by the way, don't get my wrong: I realy LIKE GT 5 for its massive content and all (even bought the Signature Edition), but i just had to say this.

PS: Not a native english speaker here, so please don't mock me for spelling errors.

 

[12thgear]

Everytime i read that 'GT 5 is the MOST REALISTIC GAME EVER'-crap, i just think half of you guys must be children who haven't driven a real car in their whole live. Seriously.

I'm not necessarily disputing your points, because I've had the same thoughts in the back of my mind on some occasions. I've driven a number of cars in real life, mostly on the street, and I often jump right to those to compare with my experiences. Some are more consistent with real life than others, and no sim I've played is perfect. That said, I haven't had the pleasure/terror of experiencing the high-speed dynamics of many cars, and that definitely changes things. And that's where there's a gap in some of my experiences, so I have to take the physics models of these games "at their word". For example, one of my favorite street cars, a stock Miata, is a blast to tear down back roads, but if you take that thing up to serious speeds it kind of sucks. I have experienced that and can confirm it.

 

[unv412]

So if you brake in a RWD car without ABS in real life your back will always swing out? Just driving the RX-7 FD '02 right now and have been feathering the brake to brake normally but anything more than that and the back gets loose.
Is this realistic? I really don't know can someone with real life experience give us your thoughts on driving without ABS.

I know in GT5p you could set the brake bias so even when the brakes locked up, the back did not swing out, however no option exist in GT5.

But if that is how it works in real life, than I'll just keep practicing otherwise I might go back to ABS =1 which feels little wussy

in RL the rear end will step out under hard (trail) brakeing but only if the fronts dont lock.....and then it will differ in the severity of the spin with regards to how much speed was involved and how much brake pressure was applied.

I have driven ABS equipped cars (stock FG Falcon XR6) in the wet @ race tracks and have lost the rear under brakes (but only in the wet). In the dry it is much harder to loop it but there is still some sliding (not to the extent of GT5 though)

link for wet lap ABS loose off track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVUWX_ZYBpI

So in summary I am big fan of LFS physics even though there are no real cars to compare for physics.....GT5 would do well to follow the FFB in relation to steering self-centreing when RWD wheelspin off the mark (torque effect) as LFS does so well......come to think of it GT5 is getting close to LFS physics (about 85% there) it just needs to tidy up the FFB and odd handling in some scenarios (opposite lock donuts, brakejob burnouts where turning the wheel makes the car pivot funny etc) and it will be just perfect.👍

Quick question. Has anyone here tried both the DFGT and the G27? If, is it worth upgrading and does the G27 feel smoother and is it less noisy?

I had DFP for GT5P and couldnt drive it till i bought G25.......my cousins G27 is better still (nicer shifter)

 

[Perkel]

Good lord... i can't stand this 'GT has sooooo much better physics than FM 3'-**** anymore.

Yes, some FM 3-cars are easier to drive than their GT 5-counterparts, but that doesn't mean its less realistic. In fact, it's the other way around.

For example: I drove a Mazda RX8 some time ago (in real life). And this car plain SUCKS in GT. Not only is the engine sound absolutely wrong (do you guys know what a rotary engine is?), no, it also drives like on soft soap! Everytime you accelerate in a turn (slight, not full throttle), the car understeers like crazy! This, my friends, is absolutely NOT realistic.

Forza 3 may not be the epidome of realism as well (several PC-sims are way better), but its hands down more realistic than GT.

Everytime i read that 'GT 5 is the MOST REALISTIC GAME EVER'-crap, i just think half of you guys must be children who haven't driven a real car in their whole live. Seriously.

And by the way, don't get my wrong: I realy LIKE GT 5 for its massive content and all (even bought the Signature Edition), but i just had to say this.

PS: Not a native english speaker here, so please don't mock me for spelling errors.

So you just writed post about one guy ?

If you will read thead you will find it very good. Not Forza that #$@$ or /gt @$@#$.

I'm lvl 11 now and damage kicked in. I mean When i started racing in gt it didn't show any damage not even scrath. Now I was lighly hit back and my car have partialy damaged wing and rear. And that was only very minor hit

Still i don't have a cach for repeirng my V6. One time i was breaking hard and gear changed to neutral from 3rd Love that damage system.

I wonder what damege will be by 20-30-40..

 

[VXR]

As I've said before, if you drive in a particular way, either expressive or very neat, you could well find one feels more realistic than another.

I don't think it's as simple as saying one game is better than the other and the other is rubbish. You have to compare to your own experiences, because at the end of the day, it would come down to how the handling modeler felt it should be and they will have added their experiences of real life driving into the game.

 

[otago]

Man, I just drove Shelby Cobra on Laguna Seca in Forza 3 and GT5, it's like Tyson vs. Yamauchi itself, knockdown on 10-th second.

I like how not too powerful cars drive, but all this 400+ hp are completely different story, GT4 is still alive

 

[xchristox]

let me sum up the changes.

1. TC off is like your driving with TC 2
2. without ASM your car still sticks to the road like never before
3. when hitting grass, your car doesn't spin out that easily
4. overal chances of losing control of your car have been heavily reduced.

to make a long story short, they've made this game 10 times easier to attract "mainstream" idiots that love need for speed. You can tell by the addition of Nascar, Toscane track special event with the Murcialago and easy handling.

I wish they un-did all this and went back to the hardcore slip and slide GT's.

 

[Mr. Boy]

The most interesting thing I've found with the physics so far is that the front-engined cars I tried (Calsonic Impul GT-R, '97 Castrol Tom's Supra, Celica GT-R) feel very stable and well-behaved, and need to be driven aggressively to get the best out of them. On the other hand, the mid-engined cars I've driven (F40, MP4-12C, Elise 111R, Zonda R) are very nervous, snappy and tail-happy. I even had some of the assists on when I drove the Mclaren, yet it was still a handful.

They're all great fun to drive, though. Does anyone else find this pattern in handling with other cars?

 

[fcautoX]

Ok, so let me give you my thoughts on this. First of all when you are traveling through a corner near the limit of grip in an rx8 and then you give it throttle you put more load on the rear and less on the front which means understeering may occer in a well balanced car like that, duh. Also you claim FM3 is hands down more realistic than GT, do you have evidence to support this? In my expirience with no aids in forza, throwing around the weight violently in a 800hp nissan 280z traveling at high speeds rarely resulted in a hopless fishtail, which i happen to know would be very likely to happen. Please enlighten me if there is a flaw in my logic.

Good lord... i can't stand this 'GT has sooooo much better physics than FM 3'-**** anymore.

Yes, some FM 3-cars are easier to drive than their GT 5-counterparts, but that doesn't mean its less realistic. In fact, it's the other way around.

For example: I drove a Mazda RX8 some time ago (in real life). And this car plain SUCKS in GT. Not only is the engine sound absolutely wrong (do you guys know what a rotary engine is?), no, it also drives like on soft soap! Everytime you accelerate in a turn (slight, not full throttle), the car understeers like crazy! This, my friends, is absolutely NOT realistic.

Forza 3 may not be the epidome of realism as well (several PC-sims are way better), but its hands down more realistic than GT.

Everytime i read that 'GT 5 is the MOST REALISTIC GAME EVER'-crap, i just think half of you guys must be children who haven't driven a real car in their whole live. Seriously.

And by the way, don't get my wrong: I realy LIKE GT 5 for its massive content and all (even bought the Signature Edition), but i just had to say this.

PS: Not a native english speaker here, so please don't mock me for spelling errors.

 

[unv412]

im also NOT convinced the engine braking effect is done right in gt5.....it seems to stay at the same revs if you lift off the brake pedal (after hard braking) and engine never changes pitch????

or engine load under accelaration is funny (eg big block Plymouth Superbird wierdness)

or the fact the diff is open on Superbird (should be LSD???) except when launching???

like i said "physics is 80% correct"

 

[Geedoo]

*SNIP*

Hey, my man, calm down. It acts like it should, i think you have to google what understeer is and how it works. Simply enter the corner slowly and do not go too far into the corner before turning.
RX8 is also known for its understeer IRL when not handled right. Gewgle some reviews of it.

PC has nothing to do with this, so dont bring it in.

And, this is a videogame, you cant expect reality just yet.

 

[Big Ron]

My experience is, that they really improved the driving physics for street car, the WRC cars and some race cars like JSGT. They really feel great and comprehensible in most ways (I love the physics of rallye cars).

But in some ways, cars do react like you would never expect. The really wrong calibratetd brake pedals for FFB wheels make it impossible to race fast without ABS, because you really can only tip the brake pedals without getting blocked wheels.

Also some cars have too much oversteering while braking.

And if you tune up you street car or even turn a muscle car like the Camaro into a race car, the handling does not feel comprehensible any more

 

[Samelborp]

Yesterday I had my first go at the rally special events, and I am surprised because the engine RPM drops a lot in tight corners (special event in la Toscana gravel circuit with the WRC Focus). It feels as if the car were severely underpowered... feels weird, even thought that there was something wrong with pedals...

Any opinion on this?

 

[YellowG1]

im also NOT convinced the engine braking effect is done right in gt5.....it seems to stay at the same revs if you lift off the brake pedal (after hard braking) and engine never changes pitch????

You may be right now that I think about it... this is probably not as big an issue since there is some type of input, whether throttle or brake, for the entire time you are on the race track. There's not a lot of 0% throttle/0% brake situations, if any.

 

[xraven13]

I am just curious, if look only at driving physics ( ignore damage and roll overs ), how much GT5 is realistic ? I would like to have detailed explanation what is different from someone that understands this topic. I bet other people would like to hear about this too.
Thanks in advance

 

[otago]

GT5 is awesome game for everybody who like cars. That's the main point of the series.

This is not "real driving simulator". It feels like a game with outdated by decade physics. I just can't believe all this circling sitting on radius "understeers", spins which feels more like rotating than actual rear axe driving your car from road and overall zero feeling of anything happened with car.

I have a lot of fun with races in this game, but hotlapping is just not too much interesting. To spend hours driving one track and improving by tenths of second I'll go all the way to LFS, Forza 2, rFactor and even Shift (but not Forza 3).

The cars in Forza 3 are usually so incredibly easy to drive, that it just makes driving boring. Somehow I don't believe that your grandma could drive Porsche GT2 1995 on Nurburgring like a breath

 

[CoolColJ]

Anyway I just took the Zonda R on Deep Forest and did a time trial with my Chromeline LP640 with hard sports tyres on Indy road course, and I take back what I said before. This feels exactly like the Time Trial with these cars!

Talk about treading on egg shells feeling

The Lambo will lose it's rear end on the banked turn with full thottle

Also took my Stealth NSX GT500 around Indy Road course - Holy crap, well worth the money!!

Awesome sounds, sweet looks, and physics like the Time Trial, but better!
The FFB and tyre model with hard racing tyres feels much better, and I felt more bumps and stuff. A lot like iRacing 👍
The NSX turned out a 1:34 sec lap time, after I was finally able to get around it without spinning out - faster than the 370z GT4 spec in the Time trial. I did 1:37+ with it

 

[atlop]

That's good to hear CoolColJ!

So what we have is that there are cars that feel more realistic to drive and others that perhaps do not? Sort of makes sense thinking the number of cars and tuning options for each car. If you count the number of cars and every possible tuning combination for those cars then you have hundreds of millions possibilities, differently tuned cars that each should handle at least a little differently than other options. And I don't think they are computing the effect of each tuning option to the handling characteristics individually but rather work with some faster computing approximation for each combination. I think it's realistic to assume it's this approximation that goes maybe a bit wrong with some cars and right with others.

But if we at least have some cars that handle like in TT then there's some fun to be had! 👍

 

[danben7]

So if you brake in a RWD car without ABS in real life your back will always swing out? Just driving the RX-7 FD '02 right now and have been feathering the brake to brake normally but anything more than that and the back gets loose.
Is this realistic? I really don't know can someone with real life experience give us your thoughts on driving without ABS.

I know in GT5p you could set the brake bias so even when the brakes locked up, the back did not swing out, however no option exist in GT5.

But if that is how it works in real life, than I'll just keep practicing otherwise I might go back to ABS =1 which feels little wussy

I've got a 00 FD RS, haven't played GT5 yet, but yes, the back of these cars (and FCs, skylines, etc) will step out under heavy braking on a track at high speed. I've been to a few supersprints and track days, when you're +180-200km/h and you hit the brakes hard, especially if you've got a slight bit of angle to the steering, the back will step out a little even on a dry track.

I won't start playing GT5 till the weekend, when I do, I'll write up a little comparison on how the GT5 FD compares to the real thing.

 

[CoolColJ]

Yeah I took a bunch of cars around the Indy road course ( I'll post a long video of my NSX GT500 run later) and they all felt different.

The tyre model feels much different to the Time Trial, you can catch the slides now
I'm using a DFGT, which is amazing since you can feel and control the slides.

On Racing Hards -
The Nascars actually felt heavy, but probably somewhat "arcadey".
The Mazada 787b was a white knuckle ride!
The NSX GT500 was sublime, but funny that the GTR GT500 feels really tame. This is with all aids off and ABS off, with brake balance set at 4:2


On Sports hards -
The LP640 felt like a powerful heavy car it is.
SLS was more grippy on the bank turns, and it feels stable through turns and drifts nicely, you can control the slides on Sports tyres, they feel progressive

Also sense is speed feels correct now. In the S bend section, in the time trial, the 50-60kph felt so sluggish. Now even in that section it feels fast. The Mazda 787b feels scary fast!

 

[Anes]

NASCAR cars on circuits are completely unrealistic. They are so chuckable and smoke the outside front tyre to extreme levels. I think PD kind of did what they want handling wise..

 

[KlosterKatten]

NASCAR cars on circuits are completely unrealistic. They are so chuckable and smoke the outside front tyre to extreme levels. I think PD kind of did what they want handling wise..

Nascars are fine, if your smoking the tire, your setup is bad or your doing it wrong.

 

[Anes]

Nascars are fine, if your smoking the tire, your setup is bad or your doing it wrong.

My setup was unchanged. Try pivoting the car with the throttle to get it to turn before the apex in 2nd or 1st gear. It's much quicker but smokes the outside front quite badly.

 

[CoolColJ]

Getting to grips with the Stealth NSX GT500. The physics of this car feel awesome. Feels very much like in the GT Academy time trial, but with a better tyre model. You can catch slides now with the DFGT wheel and the Force Feedback feels better

No aids, no ABS, brake balance set to 4:2

Just look at the way it moves, feels and looks realistic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oOkX26jmsI
[YOUTUBEHD]2oOkX26jmsI[/YOUTUBEHD]

 

[VXR]

The sense of motion and effects look brilliant at even 360p.

 

[CoolColJ]

The sense of motion and effects look brilliant at even 360p.

Click the link to watch in 720p

 

[Austin343]

This is the thread in which I'm most interested, and I keep being surprised at how comparatively little activity it's been seeing. Anyway, I don't yet have the game, but one impression that I've gotten from watching videos is that stopping distances seem too short even when cars are on their real-life equivalent tires. This is something that I felt was misrepresented in earlier games, too; is it just a matter of incorrect perception on my part, or perhaps simply the fact that real-life drivers have to worry about the endurance of their brakes when in-game ones do not? Similarly, it still doesn't look like curbs and grass upset the car as much as they should, but maybe this is again an area in which real drivers use more caution in order to keep their cars together. Can anyone shed light on these things? I know that most people think quite highly of the physics engine, and I wonder if they got this stuff right, too.

 

[unv412]

stopping distances seem to be ok (played tsukuba mostly which isnt a braking circuit) if brake bias is tuned properly but again I referance Live For Speed in that it has a great system of showing ABS pulsating by shaking the wheel and stuttered tyre noise and screen shake. Brake fade is non existant i think (maybe a good thing?)

I guess in threshold braking when you have the pedal mashed to the floor carrying big speed it lacks the "OMG are we going to stop in time " feeling but its not too bad.

Kerbs do upset the cars (ring has high ones) and grass is models good to.

Still find physics cannot replicate 2nd gear chirp of the tires and that if the car is spinning the tires in 1st gear it will not allow a shift into 2nd (G25 wheel used)

 

[CoolColJ]

Curbs and grass do effect grip quite a lot, but it depends on lots of factors, mainly amount of gas, position of the steering wheel and the type of car. The tyres will lose grip when you go off track, they get coated for a short time.

Some things you can't see, and definitely can't feel on a control pad, but with a wheel you'll know it

I guess in threshold braking when you have the pedal mashed to the floor carrying big speed it lacks the "OMG are we going to stop in time " feeling but its not too bad

Depends on when you brake, there is one point in the video I posted above where I lock the brakes slightly because of late braking, and I didn't dare to try to turn the car into the turn
I think most people are conditioned to brake early most of time, without ABS, I know I do now