Speed, and why its important in drifting.

Discussion in 'GT6 Drifting' started by FussyFez, Apr 23, 2014.

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  1. Stavingo

    Stavingo

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    These arguments are gonna be seriously serious business.
     
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  2. MRDEVIL

    MRDEVIL

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    Gtplanet, the home of seriously serious business.
     
  3. ITSHAM

    ITSHAM (Banned)

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    Drama alerrrrrtt HAM's Special edition episode! images.jpg

    @ghostthief980
     
  4. MRDEVIL

    MRDEVIL

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  5. ITSHAM

    ITSHAM (Banned)

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    One its a joke, Two stop acting like peoples owners.. You honestly think I would stoop so damn low to a level hes king of? lmao im an Ahole but im not that low.
     
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  6. GreazyTee

    GreazyTee

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    AMEN.
     
  7. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    Wow, a few opinions, given without telling someone else their opinion is wrong.

    Am I in the right place?



    Oh.. I must be...


    [​IMG]


    Everyone's still crazy.
     
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  8. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Grip is speed. With a lot of grip, you can't slow down as much as you would with less grip. Not while drifting.

    No, if you need grippier tires or grippier cars because you otherwise lack control... It's about your lack of driving skill, nothing more nothing less. And you're wrong. More grip, is less precise. Because, you can correct less than you would be able to with less grip.

    Nah mate, maybe you don't realise yet but... I do actually know what I'm talking about, contrary to your (and popular beliefs). You know what your problem is? You need to do Nascar, not drifting.

    So, some people are close-minded for realising something you obviously don't?

    1: Using a faster car than everybody else in the lobby is selfish, because nobody can chase you unless they ruin the setup of their car.

    2: Consistency has nothing to do with speed. Yes, people with more consistency do a track faster than people without, but this is not because they have more speed, it's just because they don't spend a lot of time correcting every move.
     
  9. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    Fixed everything that is wrong with this response. Read the bold responses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  10. Gonales

    Gonales

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    I'd read it, if you had any idea what you were talking about. ;)
     
  11. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    Whilst that entire post had me giggling, that first paragraph is priceless.

    Thankyou for making me smile.



    And as much as you seem to blissfully unaware, and therefore not in breach of the AUP, that paragraph is false and misleading.

    I can only hope that any poor new drifter that stumbles across this forum, can sort the wheat from the chaff.



    From wiki
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_(engineering)



    Traction, or tractive force, is the force used to generate motion between a body and a tangential surface, most generally through the use of dry friction, though the use of shear force of the surface is also commonly used.[1][2][3]

    Traction can also refer to the maximum tractive force between a body and a surface, as limited by available friction; when this is the case, traction is often expressed as the ratio of the maximum tractive force to the normal force and is termed thecoefficient of traction (similar to coefficient of friction).
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
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  12. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    Coming from you? Who debates with everyone and get proven wrong over and over again? I know exactly what I'm talking about. Grip is a by-product in a design in suspension geomettry. Suspension geometry is the most critical part in providing forward thrust.
     
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  13. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    Apart from an engine and drivetrain... And then maybe wheels and tyres (their existence) but I get what you mean, don't worry :lol::cheers:
     
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  14. Gonales

    Gonales

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    I'm sorry, but I didn't get proven wrong. I was right about the differentials, and I'm just as right about this topic.

    And I don't care where grip comes from, that was not the point of the discussion now, was it? You start making statements about where it's from, but dude... I really don't care. Grip, to a certain point is needed. Anything more than that is useless.

    You mistake F1, with drifting. I mean, do you really think they are the same? Really? During drifting: Less grip is more precision.

    Nope, it's not false and misleading. It's correct and 100% truthful. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't.
     
  15. GreazyTee

    GreazyTee

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    I can't deal. I really can't. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
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  16. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    Some proof please.

    Did you ignore the wiki link defining traction?
     
  17. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Yeah, I ignored it... -.- Right up to the point where you edited your post after I posted mine. Or during the time I was typing it.

    I know what traction is... Apparently, more so than you do.

    If you have nothing useful to add, than don't add anything at all. Thanks.

    Please show me where I was proven wrong? :)
     
  18. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    Your the one who brought grip into the factor saying it relative to speed, but truthfully it has nothing to do with speed. To simply put it speed has nothing to do with grip. It comes down to how the chassis and suspension geometry propels the car forward. Also less grip is not more precise. Its physically not possible. Less grip is a loss of control. Grip is required to provide enough feed back to the driver, so the driver can control the vehicle to the best of their abilities.
     
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  19. Gonales

    Gonales

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    I think you're missing a verb in there somewhere.

    Besides that point, if you believe grip and speed have nothing to do with each other when it comes to drifting, you're sincerely but completely mistaken.

    I know it might be hard for rookies to understand, but I'll explain it to you. There is a certain amount of traction coming from every wheel, on the rear axle of a drift car, agreed?

    If you have a lot of traction, your car will stall out sooner. If you have less traction, you can keep a drift going for longer, with the same amount of power to the wheels. If you need to slow down a lot, less traction helps you to keep the car sideways, and keep making corrections to the very last moment.

    However, with more traction, slowing down the same amount could make you stall, which could lose you the battle, or could ruin a tandem.
     
  20. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    In the same vein as your 'if you need a grippy car to go fast your skills are lacking', if you need a car with low grip to drift, your skill is lacking.


    Do you tune for neutral oversteer?

    In fact, please post one of your tunes, that you feel defines your style. I'd love to have a go and see what I think.
     
  21. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    Not so much of a rookie, also not as egotistical as you are or think how right you always are. Even tho you tend to flip flop on your blanket statements once proven wrong. You cant compare cars in this game because the lack of a proper physics engine. But in real life, How is a S13, with smaller tires can keep up with faster cars while drifting? So again it fall down to chassis design and suspension geometry. So until you get it through your thick skull that grip has nothing to due with speed.

    Now to discuss traction. Traction is determined by the traction/temperature curves of a given tire. The width, aspect ratio, tread pattern, and construction of tire dictate its ability to adhere to the road.

    Now when you combine the chassis/suspension geometry with a certain of tires you define the over traction and grip levels that a certain car can obtain. Now depending on suspension tuning you can dictate how and when a certain tire will lose traction. It can effected by many different damper setting along with spring rates in how a vehicles suspension handles the cross lateral weight transition. SO again it has nothing to do with speed. Grip or traction as you call is defined by the chassis, and suspension.
     
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  22. Gonales

    Gonales

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    I don't flip-flop on anything.

    Like I said before, and maybe you can get that through your thick skull: I don't care where the grip comes from.

    And if you think Speed and Grip aren't directly correlated when it comes to drifting, I feel sorry for you.

    And once again, this isn't real life. This is GT6.

    For the people that want to discuss real life: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/cars-in-general.7/
     
  23. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    Unless you were involved in the coding work on gt6, you can't state anything about the physics of the game as fact.

    Don't feel sorry for him, or any of us.

    I do sympathise with you though. Many times have members of this board (including myself) stated quite clearly, that on many points, we agree with you.

    But you can't seem to grasp the concept, that alot of what you preach is pure opinion. Nothing more.

    Most other members state quite clearly what their opinion is, and then go on to say that they respect others opinions and choices in style/setup etc.

    You state your opinion, often as fact, then proceed to tell anybody with a slightly different opinion, that they are wrong. This behaviour, in my opinion, is wrong.

    You try and bring up old news regarding diffs, (I notice you still persist in advising people to lock their diffs with 5/60/60, we have established this is a 2 way. I know you're including 60/60/60 in your recommendations, but to imply 5/60/60 is locked is incorrect) to try and prove that you were 'right before', but, in my recollection, and in the thread I can link to, I've asked for you to disprove my 'shoddy results' with your own, conclusive testing and results. Nothing has been posted since....



    All of this has nothing to do with your opinion on speed, which you actually conveyed quite well with your Inital response to this thread.

    Edit

    The reason I sympathise with you, is because many members have grown tired of the same old responses and behaviour from you. Rendering your opinion pretty much meaningless to them, myself included.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
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  24. Newland

    Newland

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    @Gonales
    That :censored: is classic.
    Thank you for further exposing yourself.
    Since you show an incredibly involved interest in cars, I'd recommend taking automotive courses.
    If you apply yourself in even 1/10th the manner you do in antagonizing and providing wrong information to others you would undoubtedly be successful. There's also plenty of information online for free regarding race chassis theory as well as loads of technical information that will enlighten you on how performance applications work.
     
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  25. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    Cue "I don't need courses or to research on the Internet because of my real life experience" or something along those lines.
     
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  26. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    Sad part is if @Gonales knew so much she would understand that. Along with dynamics. All I have ever done with my life is chassis work. SO it comes second nature.
     
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  27. Newland

    Newland

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    yeah, I'm expecting it. It will at least put the thought in the back of the mind.
     
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  28. NBDrifterz

    NBDrifterz

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    Well again, it's the same for me...
     
  29. GreazyTee

    GreazyTee

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    This is so funny :lol::lol::lol:
     
  30. Gonales

    Gonales

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    And for some reason, you can?

    And I know, that there are points I will agree on with anybody. Even people I dislike. Doesn't mean a thing.

    I don't mind other people's opinions. What I do mind, are reactions like these:


    Or :

    My opinion is simple. Less grip requires more skill, allows for better drifting and is fairest to the whole community. People that want speed, can play F1, Nascar, or every other sport out there. Drifting, should not be one of them.

    I NEVER said 5/60/60 is locked. I always said it was a 2 way differential. Want me to link the post where I state this? I will:

    This is my FIRST post about differentials. Relaying something TTCH said, and YOU said it was opinionated and not factual.

    (P.S.: Both of these diff's will 'lock' under the correct circumstances. ;) )

    I gave my opinion about speed, why and why not. Than people start talking about traction, suspension etc etc...

    I will repeat myself once again: I do NOT care where the grip comes from. Even if it's Big Momma standing naked beside the track somehow giving a car more grip... I really don't care. Too much grip is a no-no for me, and I would somehow find a way to reduce Big Momma's grip levels. (Figurative meaning obviously. I hope you do get the point though).


    You guys should learn to read. Once again, and I will keep repeating this:
    "Like I said before, and maybe you can get that through your thick skull: I don't care where the grip comes from."

    @Newland, I've drifted, and driven (race tracks) before. Believe me when I tell you, 'my' way of using a car works fine, really.

    Want to know what is really funny? Even if I'm wrong, which I could be... (Not saying I am, though)... Even if I'm wrong, I added more to this thread than you have.

    Please, once again, if you have nothing useful to add, leave.
     
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