Speed, and why its important in drifting.

[Stavingo]

Now you see, an agrument is gonna break out now.

These arguments are gonna be seriously serious business.

 

[MRDEVIL]

These arguments are gonna be seriously serious business.

Gtplanet, the home of seriously serious business.

 

[ITSHAM]

Drama alerrrrrtt HAM's Special edition episode!

@ghostthief980

 

[MRDEVIL]

Drama alerrrrrtt HAM's Special edition episode! View attachment 147333

@ghostthief980

Could you not...

 

[ITSHAM]

Could you not...

One its a joke, Two stop acting like peoples owners.. You honestly think I would stoop so damn low to a level hes king of? lmao im an Ahole but im not that low.

 

[GreazyTee]

Some people are so close-minded. I like going fast and having grip, because for me, grip is control. For others they like to feel like they are on ice, and that is control for them, and I have no issues with that. A great driver should be able to control their car, and adjust to other peoples driving styles instead of trying to get everyone to be the same pace. Also consistency will give you speed no matter how you drift.

AMEN.

 

[FussyFez]

Wow, a few opinions, given without telling someone else their opinion is wrong.

Am I in the right place?



Oh.. I must be...

Everyone's still crazy.

 

[Gonales]

Your mistake is that you assume grip is speed.

Grip is speed. With a lot of grip, you can't slow down as much as you would with less grip. Not while drifting.

High grip cars are precise. You get more finite control of a high grip platform. Wether it be ch or sh tires a high grip car will be more demanding of the driver than a car that's "average". Its about control when were talking about grip in drifting.

No, if you need grippier tires or grippier cars because you otherwise lack control... It's about your lack of driving skill, nothing more nothing less. And you're wrong. More grip, is less precise. Because, you can correct less than you would be able to with less grip.

You keep digging yourself into holes in threads as I've noticed you like to think you understand chassis mechanics when its obvious your knowledge about vehicles mechanical aspects is basic at best. Some advice that was given to me when I was just a kid, " if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut". This thread was about speed, not talent or grip. You stated your opinions on speed and that's all that was required.

Nah mate, maybe you don't realise yet but... I do actually know what I'm talking about, contrary to your (and popular beliefs). You know what your problem is? You need to do Nascar, not drifting.

Some people are so close-minded. I like going fast and having grip, because for me, grip is control. For others they like to feel like they are on ice, and that is control for them, and I have no issues with that. A great driver should be able to control their car, and adjust to other peoples driving styles instead of trying to get everyone to be the same pace. Also consistency will give you speed no matter how you drift.

So, some people are close-minded for realising something you obviously don't?

1: Using a faster car than everybody else in the lobby is selfish, because nobody can chase you unless they ruin the setup of their car.

2: Consistency has nothing to do with speed. Yes, people with more consistency do a track faster than people without, but this is not because they have more speed, it's just because they don't spend a lot of time correcting every move.

 

[fastfox400]

Grip is speed. With a lot of grip, you can't slow down as much as you would with less grip. Not while drifting.

Wrong! Grip is defined more about a suspension and chassis more than tires. With more grip you can shed speed faster and with more precise control of what the car is doing.

No, if you need grippier tires or grippier cars because you otherwise lack control... It's about your lack of driving skill, nothing more nothing less. And you're wrong. More grip, is less precise. Because, you can correct less than you would be able to with less grip.

Wrong again. If it was as you describe it F1 would race with street tires. Using grippier vehicle shows more control along with gives more response to the driver. Essentially giving the driver better control over the vehicle.

Also utilizing a car that has more grip whether it be through chassis design or tuning it will allow the driver to be more precise that that of a car with less grip.

Nah mate, maybe you don't realise yet but... I do actually know what I'm talking about, contrary to your (and popular beliefs). You know what your problem is? You need to do Nascar, not drifting.

If you know so much of what you talk about, you keep proving yourself wrong over and over. So obviously if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. Its obviously a duck.

So, some people are close-minded for realising something you obviously don't?

1: Using a faster car than everybody else in the lobby is selfish, because nobody can chase you unless they ruin the setup of their car.

Wrong! It all comes down to driver control. I have been in numerous lobbies with those from GTP that have used slower cars than myself and we were able to stay door two door. So once again its a duck.

2: Consistency has nothing to do with speed. Yes, people with more consistency do a track faster than people without, but this is not because they have more speed, it's just because they don't spend a lot of time correcting every move.

Consistency has everything to do with speed.

Fixed everything that is wrong with this response. Read the bold responses.

 

[Gonales]

Fixed everything that is wrong with this response. Read the bold responses.

I'd read it, if you had any idea what you were talking about.

 

[FussyFez]

Grip is speed. With a lot of grip, you can't slow down as much as you would with less grip. Not while drifting.



No, if you need grippier tires or grippier cars because you otherwise lack control... It's about your lack of driving skill, nothing more nothing less. And you're wrong. More grip, is less precise. Because, you can correct less than you would be able to with less grip.



Nah mate, maybe you don't realise yet but... I do actually know what I'm talking about, contrary to your (and popular beliefs). You know what your problem is? You need to do Nascar, not drifting.



So, some people are close-minded for realising something you obviously don't?

1: Using a faster car than everybody else in the lobby is selfish, because nobody can chase you unless they ruin the setup of their car.

2: Consistency has nothing to do with speed. Yes, people with more consistency do a track faster than people without, but this is not because they have more speed, it's just because they don't spend a lot of time correcting every move.

Whilst that entire post had me giggling, that first paragraph is priceless.

Thankyou for making me smile.



And as much as you seem to blissfully unaware, and therefore not in breach of the AUP, that paragraph is false and misleading.

I can only hope that any poor new drifter that stumbles across this forum, can sort the wheat from the chaff.



From wiki
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traction_(engineering)



Traction, or tractive force, is the force used to generate motion between a body and a tangential surface, most generally through the use of dry friction, though the use of shear force of the surface is also commonly used.[1][2][3]

Traction can also refer to the maximum tractive force between a body and a surface, as limited by available friction; when this is the case, traction is often expressed as the ratio of the maximum tractive force to the normal force and is termed thecoefficient of traction (similar to coefficient of friction).

 

[fastfox400]

I'd read it, if you had any idea what you were talking about.

Coming from you? Who debates with everyone and get proven wrong over and over again? I know exactly what I'm talking about. Grip is a by-product in a design in suspension geomettry. Suspension geometry is the most critical part in providing forward thrust.

 

[FussyFez]

Coming from you? Who debates with everyone and get proven wrong over and over again? I know exactly what I'm talking about. Grip is a by-product in a design in suspension geomettry. Suspension geometry is the most critical part in providing forward thrust.

Apart from an engine and drivetrain... And then maybe wheels and tyres (their existence) but I get what you mean, don't worry

 

[Gonales]

Coming from you? Who debates with everyone and get proven wrong over and over again? I know exactly what I'm talking about. Grip is a by-product in a design in suspension geomettry. Suspension geometry is the most critical part in providing forward thrust.

I'm sorry, but I didn't get proven wrong. I was right about the differentials, and I'm just as right about this topic.

And I don't care where grip comes from, that was not the point of the discussion now, was it? You start making statements about where it's from, but dude... I really don't care. Grip, to a certain point is needed. Anything more than that is useless.

You mistake F1, with drifting. I mean, do you really think they are the same? Really? During drifting: Less grip is more precision.

Whilst that entire post had me giggling, that first paragraph is priceless.
Thankyou for making me smile.
And as much as you seem to blissfully unaware, and therefore not in breach of the AUP, that paragraph is false and misleading.
I can only hope that any poor new drifter that stumbles across this forum, can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Nope, it's not false and misleading. It's correct and 100% truthful. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't.

 

[GreazyTee]

I can't deal. I really can't.

 

[FussyFez]

I'm sorry, but I didn't get proven wrong. I was right about the differentials, and I'm just as right about this topic.

And I don't care where grip comes from, that was not the point of the discussion now, was it? You start making statements about where it's from, but dude... I really don't care. Grip, to a certain point is needed. Anything more than that is useless.

You mistake F1, with drifting. I mean, do you really think they are the same? Really? During drifting: Less grip is more precision.



Nope, it's not false and misleading. It's correct and 100% truthful. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't.

Some proof please.

Did you ignore the wiki link defining traction?

 

[Gonales]

Some proof please.

Did you ignore the wiki link defining traction?

Yeah, I ignored it... -.- Right up to the point where you edited your post after I posted mine. Or during the time I was typing it.

I know what traction is... Apparently, more so than you do.

I can't deal. I really can't.

If you have nothing useful to add, than don't add anything at all. Thanks.

Coming from you? Who debates with everyone and get proven wrong over and over again?

Please show me where I was proven wrong?

 

[fastfox400]

I'm sorry, but I didn't get proven wrong. I was right about the differentials, and I'm just as right about this topic.

And I don't care where grip comes from, that was not the point of the discussion now, was it? You start making statements about where it's from, but dude... I really don't care. Grip, to a certain point is needed. Anything more than that is useless.

You mistake F1, with drifting. I mean, do you really think they are the same? Really? During drifting: Less grip is more precision.



Nope, it's not false and misleading. It's correct and 100% truthful. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't.

Your the one who brought grip into the factor saying it relative to speed, but truthfully it has nothing to do with speed. To simply put it speed has nothing to do with grip. It comes down to how the chassis and suspension geometry propels the car forward. Also less grip is not more precise. Its physically not possible. Less grip is a loss of control. Grip is required to provide enough feed back to the driver, so the driver can control the vehicle to the best of their abilities.

 

[Gonales]

Your the one who brought grip into the factor saying it relative to speed, but truthfully it has nothing to do with speed. To simply put it speed has nothing to do with grip. It comes down to how the chassis and suspension geometry the car forward.

I think you're missing a verb in there somewhere.

Besides that point, if you believe grip and speed have nothing to do with each other when it comes to drifting, you're sincerely but completely mistaken.

Also less grip is not more precise. Its physically not possible. Less grip is a loss of control. Grip is required to provide enough feed back to the driver, so the driver can control the vehicle to the best of their abilities.

I know it might be hard for rookies to understand, but I'll explain it to you. There is a certain amount of traction coming from every wheel, on the rear axle of a drift car, agreed?

If you have a lot of traction, your car will stall out sooner. If you have less traction, you can keep a drift going for longer, with the same amount of power to the wheels. If you need to slow down a lot, less traction helps you to keep the car sideways, and keep making corrections to the very last moment.

However, with more traction, slowing down the same amount could make you stall, which could lose you the battle, or could ruin a tandem.

 

[FussyFez]

I think you're missing a verb in there somewhere.

Besides that point, if you believe grip and speed have nothing to do with each other when it comes to drifting, you're sincerely but completely mistaken.



I know it might be hard for rookies to understand, but I'll explain it to you. There is a certain amount of traction coming from every wheel, on the rear axle of a drift car, agreed?

If you have a lot of traction, your car will stall out sooner. If you have less traction, you can keep a drift going for longer, with the same amount of power to the wheels. If you need to slow down a lot, less traction helps you to keep the car sideways, and keep making corrections to the very last moment.

However, with more traction, slowing down the same amount could make you stall, which could lose you the battle, or could ruin a tandem.

In the same vein as your 'if you need a grippy car to go fast your skills are lacking', if you need a car with low grip to drift, your skill is lacking.


Do you tune for neutral oversteer?

In fact, please post one of your tunes, that you feel defines your style. I'd love to have a go and see what I think.

 

[fastfox400]

I think you're missing a verb in there somewhere.

Besides that point, if you believe grip and speed have nothing to do with each other when it comes to drifting, you're sincerely but completely mistaken.



I know it might be hard for rookies to understand, but I'll explain it to you. There is a certain amount of traction coming from every wheel, on the rear axle of a drift car, agreed?

If you have a lot of traction, your car will stall out sooner. If you have less traction, you can keep a drift going for longer, with the same amount of power to the wheels. If you need to slow down a lot, less traction helps you to keep the car sideways, and keep making corrections to the very last moment.

However, with more traction, slowing down the same amount could make you stall, which could lose you the battle, or could ruin a tandem.

Not so much of a rookie, also not as egotistical as you are or think how right you always are. Even tho you tend to flip flop on your blanket statements once proven wrong. You cant compare cars in this game because the lack of a proper physics engine. But in real life, How is a S13, with smaller tires can keep up with faster cars while drifting? So again it fall down to chassis design and suspension geometry. So until you get it through your thick skull that grip has nothing to due with speed.

Now to discuss traction. Traction is determined by the traction/temperature curves of a given tire. The width, aspect ratio, tread pattern, and construction of tire dictate its ability to adhere to the road.

Now when you combine the chassis/suspension geometry with a certain of tires you define the over traction and grip levels that a certain car can obtain. Now depending on suspension tuning you can dictate how and when a certain tire will lose traction. It can effected by many different damper setting along with spring rates in how a vehicles suspension handles the cross lateral weight transition. SO again it has nothing to do with speed. Grip or traction as you call is defined by the chassis, and suspension.

 

[Gonales]

Not so much of a rookie, also not as egotistical as you are or think how right you always are. Even tho you tend to flip flop on your blanket statements once proven wrong. You cant compare cars in this game because the lack of a proper physics engine. But in real life, How is a S13, with smaller tires can keep up with faster cars while drifting? So again it fall down to chassis design and suspension geometry. So until you get it through your thick skull that grip has nothing to due with speed.

Now to discuss traction. Traction is determined by the traction/temperature curves of a given tire. The width, aspect ratio, tread pattern, and construction of tire dictate its ability to adhere to the road.

Now when you combine the chassis/suspension geometry with a certain of tires you define the over traction and grip levels that a certain car can obtain. Now depending on suspension tuning you can dictate how and when a certain tire will lose traction. It can effected by many different damper setting along with spring rates in how a vehicles suspension handles the cross lateral weight transition. SO again it has nothing to do with speed. Grip or traction as you call is defined by the chassis, and suspension.

I don't flip-flop on anything.

Like I said before, and maybe you can get that through your thick skull: I don't care where the grip comes from.

And if you think Speed and Grip aren't directly correlated when it comes to drifting, I feel sorry for you.

And once again, this isn't real life. This is GT6.

For the people that want to discuss real life: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/cars-in-general.7/

 

[FussyFez]

I don't flip-flop on anything.

Like I said before, and maybe you can get that through your thick skull: I don't care where the grip comes from.

And if you think Speed and Grip aren't directly correlated when it comes to drifting, I feel sorry for you.

And once again, this isn't real life. This is GT6.

For the people that want to discuss real life: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/board/cars-in-general.7/

Unless you were involved in the coding work on gt6, you can't state anything about the physics of the game as fact.

Don't feel sorry for him, or any of us.

I do sympathise with you though. Many times have members of this board (including myself) stated quite clearly, that on many points, we agree with you.

But you can't seem to grasp the concept, that alot of what you preach is pure opinion. Nothing more.

Most other members state quite clearly what their opinion is, and then go on to say that they respect others opinions and choices in style/setup etc.

You state your opinion, often as fact, then proceed to tell anybody with a slightly different opinion, that they are wrong. This behaviour, in my opinion, is wrong.

You try and bring up old news regarding diffs, (I notice you still persist in advising people to lock their diffs with 5/60/60, we have established this is a 2 way. I know you're including 60/60/60 in your recommendations, but to imply 5/60/60 is locked is incorrect) to try and prove that you were 'right before', but, in my recollection, and in the thread I can link to, I've asked for you to disprove my 'shoddy results' with your own, conclusive testing and results. Nothing has been posted since....



All of this has nothing to do with your opinion on speed, which you actually conveyed quite well with your Inital response to this thread.

Edit

The reason I sympathise with you, is because many members have grown tired of the same old responses and behaviour from you. Rendering your opinion pretty much meaningless to them, myself included.

 

[Newland]

@Gonales
That 🤬 is classic.
Thank you for further exposing yourself.
Since you show an incredibly involved interest in cars, I'd recommend taking automotive courses.
If you apply yourself in even 1/10th the manner you do in antagonizing and providing wrong information to others you would undoubtedly be successful. There's also plenty of information online for free regarding race chassis theory as well as loads of technical information that will enlighten you on how performance applications work.

 

[FussyFez]

@Gonales
That 🤬 is classic.
Thank you for further exposing yourself.
Since you show an incredibly involved interest in cars, I'd recommend taking automotive courses.
If you apply yourself in even 1/10th the manner you do in antagonizing and providing wrong information to others you would undoubtedly be successful. There's also plenty of information online for free regarding race chassis theory as well as loads of technical information that will enlighten you on how performance applications work.

Cue "I don't need courses or to research on the Internet because of my real life experience" or something along those lines.

 

[fastfox400]

Cue "I don't need courses or to research on the Internet because of my real life experience" or something along those lines.

Sad part is if @Gonales knew so much she would understand that. Along with dynamics. All I have ever done with my life is chassis work. SO it comes second nature.

 

[Newland]

Cue "I don't need courses or to research on the Internet because of my real life experience" or something along those lines.

yeah, I'm expecting it. It will at least put the thought in the back of the mind.

 

[NBDrifterz]

That's fine in a open lobby, We are referring to comps.

Well again, it's the same for me...

 

[GreazyTee]

If you have nothing useful to add, than don't add anything at all. Thanks.

This is so funny

 

[Gonales]

Unless you were involved in the coding work on gt6, you can't state anything about the physics of the game as fact.

And for some reason, you can?

Don't feel sorry for him, or any of us.

I do sympathise with you though. Many times have members of this board (including myself) stated quite clearly, that on many points, we agree with you.

And I know, that there are points I will agree on with anybody. Even people I dislike. Doesn't mean a thing.

But you can't seem to grasp the concept, that alot of what you preach is pure opinion. Nothing more.

Most other members state quite clearly what their opinion is, and then go on to say that they respect others opinions and choices in style/setup etc.

I don't mind other people's opinions. What I do mind, are reactions like these:

Your mistake is that you assume grip is speed. High grip cars are precise. You get more finite control of a high grip platform. Wether it be ch or sh tires a high grip car will be more demanding of the driver than a car that's "average". Its about control when were talking about grip in drifting. You keep digging yourself into holes in threads as I've noticed you like to think you understand chassis mechanics when its obvious your knowledge about vehicles mechanical aspects is basic at best. Some advice that was given to me when I was just a kid, " if you don't know what you're talking about, keep your mouth shut". This thread was about speed, not talent or grip. You stated your opinions on speed and that's all that was required.

Or :

Fixed everything that is wrong with this response. Read the bold responses.

You state your opinion, often as fact, then proceed to tell anybody with a slightly different opinion, that they are wrong. This behaviour, in my opinion, is wrong.

My opinion is simple. Less grip requires more skill, allows for better drifting and is fairest to the whole community. People that want speed, can play F1, Nascar, or every other sport out there. Drifting, should not be one of them.

You try and bring up old news regarding diffs, (I notice you still persist in advising people to lock their diffs with 5/60/60, we have established this is a 2 way. I know you're including 60/60/60 in your recommendations, but to imply 5/60/60 is locked is incorrect) to try and prove that you were 'right before', but, in my recollection, and in the thread I can link to, I've asked for you to disprove my 'shoddy results' with your own, conclusive testing and results. Nothing has been posted since...

I NEVER said 5/60/60 is locked. I always said it was a 2 way differential. Want me to link the post where I state this? I will:

He states that 5-60-60 is a 2 way differential, and 60-60-60 would be a welded differential. (Or, as close as possible to these, with GT6 parameters).

This is my FIRST post about differentials. Relaying something TTCH said, and YOU said it was opinionated and not factual.

(P.S.: Both of these diff's will 'lock' under the correct circumstances. )

All of this has nothing to do with your opinion on speed, which you actually conveyed quite well with your Inital response to this thread.

Edit

The reason I sympathise with you, is because many members have grown tired of the same old responses and behaviour from you. Rendering your opinion pretty much meaningless to them, myself included.

I gave my opinion about speed, why and why not. Than people start talking about traction, suspension etc etc...

I will repeat myself once again: I do NOT care where the grip comes from. Even if it's Big Momma standing naked beside the track somehow giving a car more grip... I really don't care. Too much grip is a no-no for me, and I would somehow find a way to reduce Big Momma's grip levels. (Figurative meaning obviously. I hope you do get the point though).

Sad part is if @Gonales knew so much she would understand that. Along with dynamics. All I have ever done with my life is chassis work. SO it comes second nature.

@Gonales
That 🤬 is classic.
Thank you for further exposing yourself.
Since you show an incredibly involved interest in cars, I'd recommend taking automotive courses.
If you apply yourself in even 1/10th the manner you do in antagonizing and providing wrong information to others you would undoubtedly be successful. There's also plenty of information online for free regarding race chassis theory as well as loads of technical information that will enlighten you on how performance applications work.

You guys should learn to read. Once again, and I will keep repeating this:
"Like I said before, and maybe you can get that through your thick skull: I don't care where the grip comes from."

@Newland, I've drifted, and driven (race tracks) before. Believe me when I tell you, 'my' way of using a car works fine, really.

This is so funny

Want to know what is really funny? Even if I'm wrong, which I could be... (Not saying I am, though)... Even if I'm wrong, I added more to this thread than you have.

Please, once again, if you have nothing useful to add, leave.