Speed, and why its important in drifting.

Discussion in 'GT6 Drifting' started by FussyFez, Apr 23, 2014.

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  1. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    @Gonales Just because it works for doesnt meant the meaning is correct or that they way you think it works is right. Its a OPINION Thats all it will ever be. Speed doesnt correlate to grip. Simple. Its all relative to chassis and tuning.

    "Like I said before, and maybe you can get that through your thick skull: I don't care where the grip comes from".

    Well then maybe you will put your egotistical thinking of your opinions being fact aside and understand this.. Grip doesnt correlate with speed. Speed comes from tuning, and drivers ability to control the vehicle. Got it?
     
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  2. Gonales

    Gonales

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    And WHAT would you tune for? Grip, isn't it? More grip, more traction, more speed. It's something a 13y old could even tell you!
     
  3. fastfox400

    fastfox400

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    No your tune for stability, consistency. Regardless of what your actually speeds are. Your looking for a balanced chassis.
     
  4. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    You've misunderstood again.

    This thread, is about, speed, and it's relation, to drifting, in general.

    All aspects.

    Be it competition,

    'open lobby',

    Real life competition,

    Real life 'grass roots' drifting

    Or any other sort of drifting with cars you might want to include.

    Anything I have stated as fact, has been regarding traction, and I simply quoted wiki...

    At no point have I stated anything as fact about GT, only hypothesis and theories, normally backed up with tests and data.




    Well done, that's your opinion, thank you for recognising it.
    You posted this

    Here

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/linking-drifts.307145/#post-9571045

    Whilst the 60/60/60 thread was running strong....

    5/60/60 is a 2 way with 100 percent locking in both directions whilst engaged. It will unlock off load.

    60/60/60 is always locked.

    Unless you can prove otherwise with a less shoddy test.


    You started with taking about specific cars, then went on to start about tyres....


    Good for you.


    Couldn't care less anymore.

    Carry on. Mate. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  5. Alexd1345

    Alexd1345

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    Is your drifting based on corrections? I guess it is.
    According to what you said in the following post, you basically said that it's easier to drift a car with less grip, Get your facts straight please.
    That when skill and car control comes into part.
    Also are you telling me that drifters from all around the world lack driving skill for getting more grip on their cars? Explain that to these guys please. Sure, I see that huge lack of skill, mate.

    [​IMG]

    PS: Speed is important in drifting. Also is grip. They aren't the same thing. What would you do without grip anyways? (IMO)
     
  6. Newland

    Newland

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    The wheels on the bus go round and round. That is all.
     
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  7. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Ofcourse it is easier to drift a car with less grip. :/ If I need to explain that to you than there is something wrong.

    No, not really. A driver that does well on CM isn't necessarily better than a driver that does well on CH, he is just wrong about some things.

    All I see, are Matsuri/private use cars. On (very likely) used/worn street radial tyres. What point are you trying to make???

    For the real competitions, like FD and D1GP: It's obvious that drifting with more grip is more difficult. Doesn't mean it's better. I will never agree with the amount of grip, and such in Formula D.

    Yeah, just repeat after the other guy. When a hundred people telling me something is right, it HAS to be? (Apart from Religion, and a million other things people were wrong about.)

    '

    Grip correlates with speed, every person over 10 year old and a slight interest in cars knows this. It's sad you don't.

    Yes, a tune can yield more grip, which would make a car faster. (Better tune = more grip = faster speeds, during acceleration, cornering, etc etc...)

    You are right, a better driver can make more effective use of the grip that is provided, but that same driver, when he has more grip, (due to whatever reason), will be faster.

    I don't misunderstand. But considering you are so proud of following the AUP, this is a thread about drifting in GT6, otherwise it's in the wrong sub-forum. If you want it to be about real life AND the game, move the thread.

    Yeah, and I agreed with you on the traction part. I know what traction is.

    But tests, doesn't mean something is true. TTCH told you why the Diff test was inaccurate. I knew it was, and I gave you an example of why I thought it was, but I also said I couldn't put my finger on it.

    I will admit you're right about this. A 2 way differential isn't always locked when a welded differential is. (If I'm correct.)

    Thing is, a 2 way differential locks under braking and acceleration, so for 99% of the people looking for information, that information, even though not 100% correct would help them.

    I thank you for pointing out the mistake and I will correct it. It's not because I didn't know, but it's because I have to reply to multiple people posting really dumb things, so... Sometimes my attention isn't 100%.

    Shame. Could have actually learned something.
     
  8. ITSHAM

    ITSHAM (Banned)

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    Its not raining anymore... Nice and sunny out.. (whistling)
     
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  9. Alexd1345

    Alexd1345

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    @Gonales Did you actually check out the video I showed? You can clearly see that they got LOADS of grip, don't you see it?
    Oh also, you were saying that people that drift grippy cars are less skilled than the ones that drift. But you edited your reply and deleted my quote from one of your posts.
    . Shame, I guess :/
    If it is right and makes sense, I'm going to agree. Sorry for being a logical human and not being a drifting hipster.
    Didn't really mean that :lol: Was refering that a driver that has a grippy but controllable car generally has more car control and precision than one who hasn't. Not saying that he/she's better. And what is he wrong about exactly? Wanting realistic car behaviour?

    You were contradicting yourself Dom as ypu said in one of your posts that drifting a grippy car requires less skill than drifting a loose car.

    Huss that fuss.
     
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  10. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    I can't be bothered with replying to each individual point.

    Thankyou for finally conceding the LSD point.

    I made a counter point to TTCH, he is yet to respond.

    I tested within the game with data logging, in the game. What more do you want from a test for it to be conclusive?

    You seem to think I went about it in the wrong way, your exact point was that you thought a whole lap of Tsukuba was a bad idea, and one corner would be better.

    Please, please, please, I really mean this, go and do some tests with the data logger, In whatever way you please, and disprove my tests.

    Anything else is just opinion and irrelevant.

    My opinion is more valid, because I have done tests and provided evidence backing up my point, your opinion is irrelevant because it's not backed up by anything.

    Go and back it up, and your opinion on the matter will have some substance.

    If you still want to talk about the LSD, and still keep wanting to involve TTCH, why not post in the 60/60/60 thread and actually tag him, so he can have his own say, rather than you regurgitating it for him.

    You've said your opinion on speed in regards to drifting, why must you always carry on with this ridiculous behaviour.


    With all due respect to TTCH, he is human, and his word should not be taken as gospel. You should form your own opinion based on the information he chooses to share, and other information.

    Tbh I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate you always dragging his name into your silly arguments.
     
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  11. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

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    There is so much wrong here I don't even know where to start.

    First off the amount of grip you need depends on the track.

    If I'm drifting autumn ring mini, I don't want much grip.

    If I am drifting a track with more high speed corners, SSR5, I prefer having a grippy car.

    Now see here is where you fail to mention this, a lot of this depends on entry speed.

    I'm going to need more speed to get my car with more grip through the corner, and where is the issue with this?

    It comes down to what you like drifting

    I like drifting grippy cars at high speed.

    It's still drifting.
     
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  12. MRDEVIL

    MRDEVIL

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    That thing you forget.


    And that thing which is exactly what @twodogsgolden has paraphrased.
     
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  13. twodogsgolden

    twodogsgolden

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    I'm hoping if we tell him enough that he will finally understand the only thing you need to drift is the back wheels spinning while sliding around a corner.
     
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  14. Vagabond

    Vagabond Staff Emeritus

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    How would you know he doesn't know what he's talking about if you haven't read it? :)
     
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  15. MadFlavour

    MadFlavour (Banned)

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    @Vagabond to replace the queen. That is all.

    As for the whole grip thing, I couldn't care less as long as you can drift alongside me without any problem. If you leave me, when leading then I have work to do on my car. Simple.
     
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  16. BayouSimDrifter

    BayouSimDrifter

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    This is from my real world drifting experience: When i first started drifting in my S14(stock redtop SR on 11lbs) some years ago i was told by many of the pro am drivers to start on MTS(mexican tire shop tires) tires as they are cheap to replace. The lessons that they taught me were to learn car control. Only after i became proficient did i move up to more grippier tires as they provided more precise movements and my SPEED came from knowing the course and being more precise with the car. So to be frank everyone in this community should really move to CM as our SPEED is much faster than it used to be in GT5. Having less grip can only teach you so much before you hit a plateau.
     
  17. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    I agree with this to a point.

    All my setups aimed at beginners (here) , have less grip than what i am currently using.

    I'm still using CH, but I now run 0.0 rear camber giving me much more rear end grip, and also tweaked rear springs/dampers/arb.

    So, the cars that allowed me to adjust to gt6, I now find don't have enough grip for me to place the car exactly how I want to, at the speeds I want to. I must reduce my entry speeds to retain control, not due to my lack of skill, but due to the lack of grip. I can still drift them fine, with huge angle and consistency, but not at the speeds that I'm now drifting at in my cars with my latest favourite setups.

    So I agree, with experience, you can use extra grip to your advantage, being able to slow down from higher entry speeds (@Gonales), with more angle, and more control. It also allows higher angles with more acceleration coming out of sweepers. Less grip would mean less angle would be needed for the same forward acceleration.


    Just for clarity I'm talking about the same cars, on the same tyres, just with different setups, giving large differences in handling and grip levels.



    Edit


    This is why D1 and Formula D cars all have huge amounts of power and grip, because it means the fastest, most sideways action possible, and is arguably the pinnacle of drifting.

    Obviously not everyone's favourite type of drifting, I myself have been sliding a 250bhp sileighty with nothing more than a suspension setup and a locked diff, and absolutely loving it. Being able to drive the car so hard, with little consequence for making a mistake, just hustle it through as hard and fast as you can, with a huge grin on your face.

    I also enjoy taking the Blitz ER34, which has loads of grip on CH, and doing my best to tame it's nature. Two completely different beasts and styles of drifting, but both drifting none the less.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014
  18. alpacaflip

    alpacaflip

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    Whoaho, hold on there tiger. Are you trying to say I do this, or just people in general? Because I for one have multiple cars set up for different reasons, and know what cars I should be using given lobby. But it will not change my style. I know you don't like real life comparisons, but do you also thing it would be selfish for somebody to bring an Mustang or BMW to a fun drift day, because that's the car they can afford and enjoy? By the way I do recall you using the HKS S15 back in competitions on GT5, which has loads of downforce and grip, I know this because you went up against my man fairladyz32ndson in his M5.


    And you couldn't get more wrong about consistency. You should take your own advice, and actually READ what I typed, because I said consistency will give you speed no matter how you drift. Take Ishox, Gauz, and LayNlow. They can consistently hold big angles. Then there are people who can do big angles, and can not do it consistently (stalling, straightening out, spinning). These people that are not consistent will clearly be slower. Plus consistent drifters choose the line they want just about every time, instead of just sliding all over the track like a jabroni. Same goes for speed drifters, except you would likely see non consistent one straighten up, fly off track, and just slam into stuff. Consistency also makes it great for drifting, because you can trust what the other driver will do.

    And like I said before. A great driver should be able to adjust to an others driving style, may it be speed or angle. An alright driver can only do what they know. If you can't grasp the concept of people having different styles, you should just solo drift offline or go ice skating, get some fresh air. Most of us are having fun, because after all, this is just a game.
     
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  19. Gonales

    Gonales

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    Simple. I don't need to read every post, because after reading the other one, I gave up on him. There's no correlation between Speed and Grip... :/

    So you'd be adapting your style to suit others their needs, jumping on the bandwagon.

    So, you're too good to use CH tires now? Don't go for other tires just because people 'expect' it. I never will.

    And you also state you think: 'Less grip can teach you so much before you hit a plateau'. I'm sorry, but I call ********. You can improve every single time you're in a car. If you were too good for the tires, you'd be sponsored and driving in FD by now...

    I agree, I fiddle with my car a lot too, to find setups that suit my needs. But I never, never tune a car for the sole purpose of increasing my speeds. If you really need speed to make drifting interesting, there is nothing wrong with the cars, or the sport, but... You.

    Yes, with more grip you can brake later, you can take more risks, etc etc...

    Also, with more speed you could try some Nascar. This is Drifting. Speed doesn't belong in it.

    And this is why I stopped watching the bigger kind of drifting competitions. If you need to have such extremes to make a sport attractive, it's totally not the sport it used to be. (And has to be.)

    There are SO MANY automotive sports, where speed is the most important factor. F1, WTCC, Nascar, Rally etc etc. Why make drifting just another one of those?

    Drifting is classified as an extreme sport. It shouldn't start resembling motorsports.

    People in general. I agree with you, I have a couple of cars too, and I choose the one to use when I enter a lobby, based on what other people are driving. But if from the 8 people, there are 3 Vette's and 3 Challanger/Vipers/M5's and so on, ... I will look for another lobby. Not my thing.

    Here, it's fairly common to see BMW's at drift days. Even the E46 M3's and stuff. (Living close to Germany and stuff helps.) Thing is, I wouldn't tandem with such a car, or someone using seriously expensive tires.

    We agree on the consistency part, I think that we are talking about the same thing and just not realising it. Thing is, I'm a slow drifter. I often overtake people because they spin out regularly etc. This doesn't mean I'm faster, or have more speed... It just means I can keep my speed (or lack thereof), better in check. You could say I have a higher average speed per lap, but not during specific corners.

    I totally grasp the fact people have different styles. I just think that true speed drifting is a joke. And I will never tandem with such a person.

    Most of the times I won't tandem with a car that has more grip than an average 350Z. There is no point.

    Drifting doesn't need speed to be attractive. Drifting, has elegance, and enough adrenaline on low speeds...

    The way I kind of see it: It's like jumping out of an airplane with a parachute. You can open your chute well on time, enjoying the view and ride down, and experiencing the thrill of falling without the chute opening.

    But on the other hand, you also have people who would want to squeeze the last bit out of it... And open their chute at the last possible instant. It's not needed, it's overkill and it has effects on the other people you share your passion with.

    All things in moderation... Even speed during drifting. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
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  20. Djhashbrown

    Djhashbrown

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    [​IMG]
    Jabroni :lol::lol::lol:
     
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  21. Stavingo

    Stavingo

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    Simplifying humanity one post at a time.
     
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  22. alpacaflip

    alpacaflip

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    Thank you for understanding @Gonales. I attacked a little harsh in some parts of my post, and sorry about that. But yeah I'm the kind of nut that would wait until the last second to pull the chute lol. But to each his own, I have no beefs.
     
  23. Gonales

    Gonales

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    No hard feelings. I know I can come across harsh or rude at times too. Sometimes unintentionally as well. (Damn, never would have guessed that right?)

    Anyway, I accept that you would do things like that. I would just like you to consider the effects things can have. On the community, the sport, etc. :)
     
  24. BayouSimDrifter

    BayouSimDrifter

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    @Gonales I stated that learning on cheap tires is a way to learn all your mistakes before you move onto a grower compound. I'm not going to waste my time on expensive tired to learn, when it comes time to move up I will have a set. Luckily I live in a city that have an abundanceof cheap tires readily available. And yes you will hit a plateau on cheap tires. Again this is based on my real life experience not a video game. Pro-am nowadays run on a very grout compound to be competitive.
     
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  25. Gonales

    Gonales

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    And because they do it, it HAS to be right, I take it? Like things should always stay the same just because people say so?

    I didn't drag his name into the argument, you did. By stating my way of diff tuning was opinionated, and incorrect. Indirectly, you said he was mistaken. And I'm not stealing other people their research without mentioning them. Maybe you do, I don't.
     
  26. BayouSimDrifter

    BayouSimDrifter

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    Because obviously somewhere in that formula they have made success in either FD or pro am levels.
     
  27. FARM EAGLE

    FARM EAGLE

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  28. ITSHAM

    ITSHAM (Banned)

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    Good thing you edited that video out @FARM EAGLE !!!
     
  29. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    You mentioned him first. I couldn't care less how you setup your diffs, never said it was opinionated.. Or incorrect, simply that if you believe 5/60/60 is locked, you are mistaken. This was directed at everyone. Not just you..

    If you had forgotten, its you that tends to go round telling people they're wrong.




    Sorry, wait, what?

    Make your mind up.








    Read bold

    So is it this?
    Or this?



    And incase you missed my earlier request, can I try one of your tunes please. Choose carefully, I'd like to sample a setup that you feel works best with your style. This is a genuine request.

    You like drifting slowly with huge angle.
    I respect your choices, you are free to do as you wish. Now please respect other people's choices if they wish to drift slightly differently to yourself.

    If you respect these people, you wouldn't be trying to tell us all that speed has no place in drifting, or is it OK if used in moderation? Oh mighty drift Queen, please enlighten me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  30. PUSH

    PUSH

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    Bahahahahaha I'm dying laughing and just woke up my girl. That's awesome.
     
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