SRF on seasonals

  • Thread starter Thread starter matrimonio69
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Good post o/p I think the paragraph
"Maybe we are part of the development of GT. Perhaps the are planning a re-vamp of SRF, and by forcing it on everybody who participates, they are obtaining masses of raw data that shows when and how SRF is activated. With thousands of different drivers and different levels with different cars.. With all this data, they can analyze how they could improve SRF for a future update, or GT6"
Covers it entitrely, to me it's become a free development hack for Sony and their plans for GT6. I don't know if there are enough hard core online racers or maybe they want GT6 and GT6 hard core for the likes of some of you really good gamers who can work out the traits and idiosyncrasies of the game on here.
I will say though it's a complete ******* bind for me, i'm deffo *not* good at the game or working out how to go faster but it's annoying the hell outta me!
Defenition of choice from Wiki (//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice)

Choice consists of the mental process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one or more of them. While a choice can be made between imagined options ("what would I do if ...?"), often a choice is made between real options and followed by the corresponding action. For example, a route for a journey is chosen based on the preference of arriving at a given destination as soon as possible. The preferred (and therefore chosen) route is then derived from information about how long each of the possible routes take. This can be done by a route planner. If the preference is more complex, such as involving the scenery of the route, cognition and feeling are more intertwined, and the choice is less easy to delegate to a computer program or assistant.
 
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Last night I tried the first two Miata Events. Used a fully stock OCD 04 Miata no aids other than the srf. Added my weight in ballast putting it at 377pp. Had a go with CH tires first. No chance. Moved up to CS and could hold the track enough to get mid pack finishes on both. 4th at London. 5th Indy. I was definitely challenged.

Generally I've had to sometimes push hard to get wins on seasonals with fully stock cars on the AI's tires but always doable. Only one I needed a tuned car was the Lambo Nurb race. It's really doubtful I could get a win on the one's I tried without a tuned car. At the very least a custom tranny is needed for me to have a chance.

As far as how the car drove with SRF, quite frankly I didn't notice at my normal pace. Heck I spun on London a couple times. Running without ABS makes it way more interesting, lockups can still happen. So any misgivings about getting to used to it aren't a concern to me. So I'm thinking the pace and need to tune is why PD forced SRF. I still don't like not having a choice but the races look to be pretty competitive and worth running.

Edit: Tuned car blows my difficulty rationalization theory out of the water.
 
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ncrthree
. So any misgivings about getting to used to it aren't a concern to me. .
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ncrtrhee, congratulation for testing it, 👍 although I do not agree with your conclusion, I respect it.
I hope more people will conduct their own test and decide what SFR is really about and how much of an issue it is for them.:)

Of course I totally agree with you on that it should still be free choice, not withstanding that it bother you a little or a lot or not at all to drive with SFR on.👍
 
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^ Yeah Cote, from what I had read about SRF, I was have expecting the car to steer itself! Driving like a Super Hero! I had visions of a MarioKart GT5 combo. Plus if I had waltzed through the seasonal easily, I'd be really angry that GT5 was entering into an Easy Mode. But I'm not about to become a SRF advocate, someone else can have that job.


If I was more interested I'd compare how a car drives with the other aids on. Maybe SRF effects a car like a combination of some of them combined. I know when I stopped using ABS the effect was profound on deceleration stability. I'm wondering if you used TC, Active Steering and ASM together with ABS, if it would be similar to SRF by itself.

I mean even the aids that are meant to have a real life counterpart are just a generic approximation. With the tire compounds just stepped grip multipliers there's another generic approximation. That's why I just stopped using any aids for offline. Just keep it simple.
 
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ncrthree
^ Yeah Cote, from what I had read about SRF, I was have expecting the car to steer itself! Driving like a Super Hero! I had visions of a MarioKart GT5 combo. Plus if I had waltzed through the seasonal easily, I'd be really angry that GT5 was entering into an Easy Mode.


If I was more interested I'd compare how a car drives with the other aids on. Maybe SRF effects a car like a combination of some of them combined. I know when I stopped using ABS the effect was profound on deceleration stability. I'm wondering if you used TC, Active Steering and ASM together with ABS, if it would be similar to SRF by itself.
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It seems to me that a driver can avoid activating SRF, even when it's on, that it only comes into play when mistakes are made. In short, it's unobtrusive. In a weird way, it could be used as another feedback to crappy driving.
 
Skid Recovery Force Mandatory? No thanks. Once you have driven for a while and have some experience it only holds you back from being a better driver. It's like playing basketball against your little sister. You're really not going to get any better unless you're challenged. Don't rescue us from our mistakes. Besides, racing is far less entertaining without crashes.
 
Ills1999
It seems to me that a driver can avoid activating SRF, even when it's on, that it only comes into play when mistakes are made. In short, it's unobtrusive. In a weird way, it could be used as another feedback to crappy driving.
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Exactly. But the feedback you get from crappy driving with SRF is a magnificent four wheel drift whereas without it you get a trip onto the grass.
 
Ills1999
Try PITting AI cars on SRF seasonals v. non-SRF races. Seems it's harder to spin them with SRF locked on.
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I don't make a point of ramming/pushing other cars, but just off the top of my head, I'm guessing that in the case of this Roadster Seasonal, you have cars that all weigh about the same (not very much) traveling slower than in races with faster cars that weigh more. Lower mass and velocity vs. higher mass and velocity. Logic would dictate that there is less energy being transferred and less "reaction" to your effort to spin the other cars.

Logic would also dictate that if PD wished to prevent people from playing bumper cars with the AI vehicles, that they would just simply turn on the penalties. Bump the other cars, and your vehicle slows down for 5 seconds. It's already in the game. All they would have to do is turn it on. Plain and simple.

I get the feeling that you're just randomly guessing in hopes that you get it right eventually, kinda like those TV psychics do. :sly:
 
IvanOffalich
I get the feeling that you're just randomly guessing in hopes that you get it right eventually, kinda like those TV psychics do. :sly:
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I've already demonstrated that when someone decided to do a test for themselves of the effects of SRF, that it turned out to not be as big of a deal as they had originally worked it up to be in their head. :sly:

It's called coming at it with the thought that maybe PD made a conscious decision and trying to figure out what the reason for that decision might be, rather that assuming that they don't know what they are doing, but those who obsess over their game do.

Maybe they have decided that they have the obsessive segment locked up? I suppose I could just lockstep with the rest of the folks here, but frankly there are too many real injustices in this world that deserve our attention to not feel like a total tool for taking this way too seriously.
 
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Ills1999
I've already demonstrated that when someone decided to do a test for themselves of the effects of SRF, that it turned out to not be as big of a deal as they had originally worked it up to be in their head. :sly:

It's called coming at it with the thought that maybe PD made a conscious decision and trying to figure out what the reason for that decision might be, rather that assuming that they don't know what they are doing, but those who obsess over their game do.

Maybe they have decided that they have the obsessive segment locked up? I suppose I could just lockstep with the rest of the folks here, but frankly there are too many real injustices in this world that deserve our attention to not feel like a total tool for taking this way too seriously.
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Your logic is completely flawed. No company decides they have a segment of the market locked up and then does something they know will pi$$ them off. The only thing that makes any logical sense is to leave SRF optional. They can learn how many people use it or prefer it, how many switch back and forth etc. if they have the desire to do so.
 
Ills1999
I suppose I could just lockstep with the rest of the folks here, but frankly there are too many real injustices in this world that deserve our attention to not feel like a total tool for taking this way too seriously.
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Says the one with the most posts in this thread. The irony is just too much right now.
 
MuoNiuLa
Says the one with the most posts in this thread. The irony is just too much right now.
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Your nickname suits you. :)

Oh, and telling folks to CALM DOWN isn't the same as running around proclaiming INJUSTICE! lulz
 
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Ills1999
It seems to me that a driver can avoid activating SRF, even when it's on, that it only comes into play when mistakes are made. In short, it's unobtrusive. In a weird way, it could be used as another feedback to crappy driving.
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That's why I did some testing. To see if it had any effect if you aren't in a out of control situation. I found SRF had an instant effect on a car's handling. It provided much more grip and stability, a full second off a lap at Tsukuba is significant. What it does in an out of control situation is probably much more profound.

I also just wanted to see if I could play the seasonals without feeling like it was too easy. Didn't seem to be the case at least in the 2 races I tried in an untuned car. So I could justify to my purist snob self, that I'm just running a grippier tire than normal. If it's a challenge to win, then it's going to be fun.

However one could easily say that pushing SRF has ruined the Events's integrity by instantly changing every car's basic physics. I feel pretty strongly about that still. I like to drive with no aids offline, period. Hopefully this isn't the trend in offline Events, that's my main concern.
 
ncrthree
That's why I did some testing. To see if it had any effect if you aren't in a out of control situation. I found SRF had an instant effect on a car's handling. It provided much more grip and stability, a full second off a lap at Tsukuba is significant. What it does in an out of control situation is probably much more profound.

I also just wanted to see if I could play the seasonals without feeling like it was too easy. Didn't seem to be the case at least in the 2 races I tried in an untuned car. So I could justify to my purist snob self, that I'm just running a grippier tire than normal. If it's a challenge to win, then it's going to be fun.

However one could easily say that pushing SRF has ruined the Events's integrity by instantly changing every car's basic physics. I feel pretty strongly about that still. I like to drive with no aids offline, period. Hopefully this isn't the trend in offline Events, that's my main concern.
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I'm going to run a similar test as yours in the next day or so. I want to know if the issue is as pronounced for those of us who use the ds3.

I've not perceived the basic physics change, to me it's like running into a wall and realizing that with srf, the wall is elastic. The bottom line is to stay off the wall.
 
I use a DS3 and have driven with all aids off for some time now - mainly arcade, stock, CS tires, ABS 0.
I did a small test on the dreaded Lambo Nurbie Seasonal.
I have raced many times on this particular race but with the Gallardo only.
This time I used the Miura - first with SRF on. Won by 10 secs. This surprised me somewhat. I hadn't driven the Miura for a long time - thought maybe the update had stopped it being so skittish at the back end - given it tires made of UHU.
Then I turned SRF off.
Oh yeah, it was slidey alright - back to normal. I struggled to make 4th on that run:lol:

So from my view, SRF - for me - makes a heck of a difference...even with a DS3. Still not for me though.
 
So now I'll retract any benefit of the doubt I'd given PD for forcing SRF.

I ran the first 4 Miata races but this time with a nicely tuned 89 premium on CS's. Used Motor City Hami's tune @360pp. Just too easy even 20pp under the limit. Except for London, the pp could have been dropped much further. No other aids except for the silly SRF.

No need to have this aid forced on whatsoever. None.
 
If SRF is forced on and theres a reward i can do without then i'll just skip then thanks PD. If i want the reward ill just mash my face on the steering wheel with the most overpowered car and finish the races and moveon. SRF forced on /lame and insulting.
 
ncrthree
That's why I did some testing. To see if it had any effect if you aren't in a out of control situation. I found SRF had an instant effect on a car's handling. It provided much more grip and stability, a full second off a lap at Tsukuba is significant. What it does in an out of control situation is probably much more profound.

I also just wanted to see if I could play the seasonals without feeling like it was too easy. Didn't seem to be the case at least in the 2 races I tried in an untuned car. So I could justify to my purist snob self, that I'm just running a grippier tire than normal. If it's a challenge to win, then it's going to be fun.

However one could easily say that pushing SRF has ruined the Events's integrity by instantly changing every car's basic physics. I feel pretty strongly about that still. I like to drive with no aids offline, period. Hopefully this isn't the trend in offline Events, that's my main concern.
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So I ran my test using my seasonal setup for London/Reverse and TC1,ABS1 other aids off and found that SRF laps are about 2 seconds quicker and that SRF off requires an UNREALISTIC amount of tiptoeing through the corners.

That's my bottom line. The tires have an unrealistic lack of grip. SRF addresses that.

lol frying street soft tires with a 850 kg 200hp miata.
 
I had no problems with grip when I ran a fully stock 89 Miata on CH tires with no aids, no abs at Tsukuba. Felt like I would expect a real life Miata to feel like on a track. Seems like 1:16's with a 116hp car would be about right compared to real life track times maybe too fast.

Adding a significant amount of hp, dropping the final gear down, dropping weight and adding a stiffer suspension from stock would no doubt effect traction. Plus you're driving through some very tight turns on London, plenty of places to upset a car's natural balance.

Just as a FYI, here's an interesting thread about GT5's tire grip:https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160821&highlight=Tire+testing
His testing was done prior to 2.09 too.
 
ncrthree
I had no problems with grip when I ran a fully stock 89 Miata on CH tires with no aids, no abs at Tsukuba. Felt like I would expect a real life Miata to feel like on a track. Seems like 1:16's with a 116hp car would be about right compared to real life track times maybe too fast.

Adding a significant amount of hp, dropping the final gear down, dropping weight and adding a stiffer suspension from stock would no doubt effect traction. Plus you're driving through some very tight turns on London, plenty of places to upset a car's natural balance.

Just as a FYI, here's an interesting thread about GT5's tire grip:https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160821&highlight=Tire+testing
His testing was done prior to 2.09 too.
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My setup is basically stock suspension with a click more compression dampening in back and a click more rebound dampening in front. Meaning I set the fully adj. susp to all minimum to replicate the stock setup and went one click up in the two spots I mentioned.

Yes, the gearing is very short, but without SRF I'm lighting the tires on exit. I don't disagree that London is a great place to get tail-happy, I'm just saying that SRF off, on street soft tires, makes my 200hp Miata behave like a 400hp beast, if that makes sense.

I've floored plenty of cars irl coming out of turns, running street soft tires, and fishtailing is pretty rare at these power levels on a dry surface. To me, SRF on feels more realistic, maybe if I were using a wheel I'd feel different.

I'll check out the link.
 
The range of comfort tyres are the only halfway realistic tyres in GT5.

Remember that challenge on the Top Gear track against David Coulthard's ghost with the SLS AMG? We were forced to use CS tyres in a 600HP car with monstrous amounts of torque, because they were the tyre that achieved the closest lap times to the real car on the real track.

They are not too slippery, I should imagine that SRF has given you bad habits of using the throttle too much and jerking the steering wheel harder.

Heck, when the roads were damp, my old Ford Focus used to be able to wheelspin into 3rd gear, and that thing only had 130HP.
 
C'mon Mr. Hamilton, I did say 'dry' surface. :P We can talk about driving on the mossy side of a mountain in winter, too. If you like. :)
 
There's plenty of tests throughout GTP demonstarting the grip, G forces and lap times of each tyre grade, and Comforts are found to be the most realistic. Sports Hard seem to represent the very best road tyres available, the other compounds seem to go: Track day tyres > Racing slicks > simply too sticky to actually exist.

If you are used to having more grip (either by using SRF or better tyres), then comforts aren't going to feel great. But I'd have the same effect if I lived in a 5 star hotel for a while and then went back to the reality of my own home :sly:
 
While tuning for the 380PP Miata seasonal, I noticed something about the forced SRF. It gave the cars an undesired amount more understeer, more stability. I had to overtune for oversteer just to get them to turn in well. Sure the SRF would kick in mid corner and hold the grip, but turn in was a bigger issue than the already understeery PD physics.

I took one of my Miata SRF seasonal tunes for some offline non SRF testing and whoo was it a handful. I toned it back down to a normally balanced car and was able to turn faster laps than in the SRF seasonal.

From my perspective, forced SRF was just another useless aid that I had to tune around to get the car to do what I wanted it to do.
 
Lewis_Hamilton_
There's plenty of tests throughout GTP demonstarting the grip, G forces and lap times of each tyre grade, and Comforts are found to be the most realistic. Sports Hard seem to represent the very best road tyres available, the other compounds seem to go: Track day tyres > Racing slicks > simply too sticky to actually exist...
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SRF aside.
Did you see the size of the audi etron tyres in the 2012 24hr Le mans ?

@Ills1999 don't forget that you cant change the width or height of the tyres/wheels. So 200hp probably could smoke the miata tyres depending what finaldrive and gearbox you're running. Though if i had have got 200hp out of a 850kg mazda i would have put some wider tyres on....PD....Ahem!!!!
 
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