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SSRX Alternate Route Found (+more)
- Thread starter KinLM
- 516 comments
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- 2,741
- Michigan
- mcluvin93hatch
Voted no for the poll, we're still waiting for other "inclusions" like the KW Suspension 7-post rig, that one has potential corporate-ties and we haven't heard a word on it. These hopeful track-layout alternatives may be nothing more than wishful thinking from PD.
- 9,232
- Valongo
- Hcclipper
I'll have to say no to the poll question; even if the SSRX alternate route looks finished, it should've already been available for the player to use in GT5 (because I believe that all track versions must come at the track's release rather than being unlocked one game later), if not then it is probably pointless to expect it now. As for the old tracks story, I'm torn between believing it and thinking that the images are just leftover, non-usable data. Therefore, I'm not expecting those to comeback any time soon unless PD really want to surprise the fans in a really good way.
- 13,150
- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
To put it simply, these "hidden" tracks aren't going to happen. Just because something gets discovered in the files doesn't mean anything is planned for an eventual release. Knowing PD, these are likely just all for nothing.
- 16,417
- United Kingdom
- 4,434
- Netherlands
- PaMu1337
I've been suggesting this for quite a bit of time, but people always argued with me that it would really be in the game. Good to see the official statement finally mention this clearly.
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- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Quakebass
Premium
- 1,868
- Washington
- quakebass
If all these unreleased tracks are really there in the code, and some have even been seen in trailers and demos several years ago, it makes me curious as to how much of the delays come down to the lack of power in the PS3... It certainly can't all come from the PS3 issues, but there are a few things I've noticed with both GT5's and GT6's tracks...
- In GT5's course creator tracks, the draw distance was very short, and even then frame drops occurred with lots of cars or smoke on the track - this didn't always happen on some regular, pre-baked tracks (at least those without weather).
- By default, that means a lot of optimization goes into regular tracks - pre-determined chunk load-ins, optimized lighting, etc. This can usually be tested when you run the tracks backwards.
- Massive liberties were taken with Sierra, I'd imagine because of the sheer amount of space that needs to be rendered:
Look at the lake - ridiculously simplified, it's a very small texture tiled across a huge area, and the edges are incredibly rough. A lot of other areas have similarly low-res textures, likely to allow the track to run efficiently.
This would lead me to believe that outside just the texture and wireframe work, a lot more than we realize also goes into optimization for track development - load in points, optimizing shadows and textures, etc...
PD have access to more powerful hardware, so they can use more powerful, uncompressed builds for the trailers. However, we saw Seattle in the NSX trailer way back in GT5 days, and the textures still looked very GT4-ish, especially on the buildings:
...So at that point it was likely just a direct rip from the old game, and used for the sake of a trailer, where it was easier to hide the quality faults. Putting it in the new game, they'd likely update the textures, and place it in the new lighting engine. But when that happens, it becomes more taxing on the processor, and would take more work to keep it from breaching the hardware restrictions. Perhaps the processor room for displayed track data has been whittled down so much from other new data in the GT6 engine (new lighting, adaptive tessellation, etc.) that any new track has to be hyper-optimized and compressed (if it is to be an HD remake) just to keep the game from jittering or crashing. If that's the case, it could (somewhat) explain the massive delay for Sierra, and perhaps other courses... However, I don't understand how Seattle could be delayed for almost two years at this point, that is, if PD really started work around the time that the NSX trailer was released.
Most of the thumbnails that Whistle Snap revealed appear to be quite a bit low-res, and it seems odd that PD would add PS2 ports in an update - I thought they'd claimed that any new content would be "premium" level. It makes sense to have a flood of new content for the Spec II update, as it would pull in all sorts of new (and old) users. It'd likely be more effective than if they'd slowly released the content over time with a smaller spec II patch (which potentially could've caused and extended other content delays). If they're really planning on adding all of these tracks, I don't see any reason why they'd bother to use the ancient thumbnail data... So that would lead me to believe that it's just legacy data left over, similar to the other content leaks.
That said, the new Route X variant seems to be legit new content, considering that comparatively, it's a relatively new asset, the thumbnails look modern, and as far as we know, they've never been used. I'm really curious where these were found, @Whistle Snap, are all of them new as of a recent update, or were they found in an area that already existed, but was just too difficult to decrypt until recently? If its the former, this could be a huge batch of content coming in the next few weeks or month.
- In GT5's course creator tracks, the draw distance was very short, and even then frame drops occurred with lots of cars or smoke on the track - this didn't always happen on some regular, pre-baked tracks (at least those without weather).
- By default, that means a lot of optimization goes into regular tracks - pre-determined chunk load-ins, optimized lighting, etc. This can usually be tested when you run the tracks backwards.
- Massive liberties were taken with Sierra, I'd imagine because of the sheer amount of space that needs to be rendered:
Look at the lake - ridiculously simplified, it's a very small texture tiled across a huge area, and the edges are incredibly rough. A lot of other areas have similarly low-res textures, likely to allow the track to run efficiently.
This would lead me to believe that outside just the texture and wireframe work, a lot more than we realize also goes into optimization for track development - load in points, optimizing shadows and textures, etc...
PD have access to more powerful hardware, so they can use more powerful, uncompressed builds for the trailers. However, we saw Seattle in the NSX trailer way back in GT5 days, and the textures still looked very GT4-ish, especially on the buildings:
...So at that point it was likely just a direct rip from the old game, and used for the sake of a trailer, where it was easier to hide the quality faults. Putting it in the new game, they'd likely update the textures, and place it in the new lighting engine. But when that happens, it becomes more taxing on the processor, and would take more work to keep it from breaching the hardware restrictions. Perhaps the processor room for displayed track data has been whittled down so much from other new data in the GT6 engine (new lighting, adaptive tessellation, etc.) that any new track has to be hyper-optimized and compressed (if it is to be an HD remake) just to keep the game from jittering or crashing. If that's the case, it could (somewhat) explain the massive delay for Sierra, and perhaps other courses... However, I don't understand how Seattle could be delayed for almost two years at this point, that is, if PD really started work around the time that the NSX trailer was released.
Most of the thumbnails that Whistle Snap revealed appear to be quite a bit low-res, and it seems odd that PD would add PS2 ports in an update - I thought they'd claimed that any new content would be "premium" level. It makes sense to have a flood of new content for the Spec II update, as it would pull in all sorts of new (and old) users. It'd likely be more effective than if they'd slowly released the content over time with a smaller spec II patch (which potentially could've caused and extended other content delays). If they're really planning on adding all of these tracks, I don't see any reason why they'd bother to use the ancient thumbnail data... So that would lead me to believe that it's just legacy data left over, similar to the other content leaks.
That said, the new Route X variant seems to be legit new content, considering that comparatively, it's a relatively new asset, the thumbnails look modern, and as far as we know, they've never been used. I'm really curious where these were found, @Whistle Snap, are all of them new as of a recent update, or were they found in an area that already existed, but was just too difficult to decrypt until recently? If its the former, this could be a huge batch of content coming in the next few weeks or month.
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- 1,548
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ScorchingAngel01
That's actually already in the game. If you go to suspension in tuning parts, in the bottom right corner it says powered by KW meaning the KW suspension model is already in GT6. I'm pretty surprised nobody doesn't realize that.
- 570
- Croatia
- Mustangmiha
GTA4 also had a lot of unused pics and content that has officially never seen the release (but later noticed and implemented in the game with mods), and I'm pretty sure GTA4 is not the only game that has lots of left unused and scraped stuff left for some reason. I think what Whistle Snap found was meant to be found sooner or later just to tease fans a little, and there will be no Tahiti Maze and etc in the next update, IMO.
KniX
(Banned)
- 38
- Canada
Its because on the KW site they make a reference as if the Rig itself is coming to the game as a tool to use in the game. The reality is the rig was used to improve the suspension dynamics, I don't think a mock up version was ever planned to actually be an in game tool, PD as far as I know never once said it would. The same goes for Yokohana Tires where they have incorporated Yokohana tire data into the tires simulation & PD further improved aerodynamics with the introduction of CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) but they have not got all the kinks out of implementing these new dynamics and we have issues with top speeds.
- 28,471
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- Johnnypenso
KW isn't a suspension model, it's a suspension testing system. Logo or no logo, I doubt it's been used at all in GT6, and if it has, it certainly isn't obvious.
- 16,417
- United Kingdom
KW is a company, whose equipment they used to refine the suspension model, how would it be 'obvious' if they had used it?
KniX
(Banned)
- 38
- Canada
The handling improvement from GT5 to GT6 is quite obvious.
- 1,548
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ScorchingAngel01
KniX
(Banned)
- 38
- Canada
Bribe?
No, they collaborated with companies who specialize in the manufacturing of products they simulate, going further then car manufactures and working with performance aftermarket companies specializing in engineering performance parts for the products they are simulating. These companies collect the best data in each of their respective fields and so they are the best source for data to use in the simulation.
- 2,741
- Michigan
- mcluvin93hatch
Still, just like the course-maker, we were given the impression that GT6 would include a particular feature or asset, and we have yet to see PD themselves come-out about progress on the release(s) of that feature or asset.
Might as well add this alternate course to that list. It's not likely we'll see it anytime soon.
Might as well add this alternate course to that list. It's not likely we'll see it anytime soon.
- 2,741
- Michigan
- mcluvin93hatch
If they aren't going to break their silence to control fan speculation & hype, everything is fair game.
Edit* To further my point, consider what's happened with the Pikes-Peak thread. No official annoucement from PD about game-inclusion, but mere presence from the GT logo at the event, and suddenly its 'probably' coming back to the game.
"Just because"
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KniX
(Banned)
- 38
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- ArIX_022a
- ArIX Ant
you'd be correct, its not there or even simulated. its pretty much just branding, like ferrari logos on jackets.
- 34,597
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
And how about that, it wasn't even said by anyone from Sony or Kaz, it was stated by the head of Motorsport sales and Technical support at KW Automotive. Thing is, the official site doesn't say that anywhere. if anything, KW just helped with PD's Physics model in regards to the suspension and in return, KW got some branding out of it.
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KniX
(Banned)
- 38
- Canada
Can you back that up? Or are you posting your opinion as if its fact saying PD is blatantly lying on the GT site? Missing a deadline is one thing but PD saying they used KW data implemented into the simulation and them simply not is far fetched and absurd. If you really think that KW didnt give any data to PD and that even if so none of it was used on GT6 please back that up.
Except The Jacket is not trying to simulate its a car
