"Standards" the good, the bad and the ugly

[CSMDuty11]

Damn. I really didn't think it could get worse, then along comes...that.

Oh believe me, it WILL get worse
As i found not one, not two, but THREE potential cars that give the alto works a run for its money.(in GT6 this time)
Now lets see what these cars are.(as much as i would hate to)
1.Renault Megane 2.0 Coupe
You know how the "Infamous Suzuki" has a hexagonal grill? well, atleast they actually BOTHERED to make it look good. Here, they didn't bother, and the grill, obviously isn't its only issue. I still can't believe i wanted to put a picture of that in the french car photos thread.

2.Lotus Carlton
Is there even any reason for this to be in Gran Turismo? as i would miss it less than the weird toyota thing from GT4, and i even forgot about that toyota. As for the textures, it mostly looks like something that got drawn on with grafitti, i can't even look at it for more than 5 seconds!

And finally... the 3rd car... quite possibly the worst one
3.Toyota CELLICA GT-FOUR Rally Car from 1995
Now, some might say that it doesn't count because it has decals, but who said the worst standard ever can't have decals, and if that person did, then what are the thingss on the side of the Alto Works, huh?
I personally think that this thing right here looks like a car that, before going to rally, was used to see for how long a person could handle in a giant forest/desert full of dangerous animals, and it isn't only because one of its defense mechanisms was to be ugly. So ugly infact, that i only made two screenshots of it instead of three!

 

[RACECAR]

I have completely underestimated how worse it could've got. Those definately look plucked from a PS2 game and just thrown in. I'm not even sure photoshop could save those.

 

[FoRiZon]

A new challenger has arrived:

View attachment 196304 View attachment 196305 View attachment 196306 View attachment 196307 View attachment 196308

Zomg the grill is excellent.

10/10 worth GT7

 

[ScottPuss20]

A new challenger has arrived:

View attachment 196304 View attachment 196305 View attachment 196306 View attachment 196307 View attachment 196308

Dayuum

 

[David Bailey]

One of the selling points of GT is how many cars they boast. But looking at some of these examples this can only hurt the games quality.
When I bought the Oreca Viper it asks if you want to drive the car now. The small floodlights below the main headlights were hexagonal!.
They should downsize the quantity of cars in GT7 just like they did from 600 in GT2 to 180 in GT3. Sometimes less is more. If you cut down 1200+ cars to even 500 (still a lot of cars!) what other features could you put in the game?.

 

[ScottPuss20]

One of the selling points of GT is how many cars they boast. But looking at some of these examples this can only hurt the games quality.
When I bought the Oreca Viper it asks if you want to drive the car now. The small floodlights below the main headlights were hexagonal!.
They should downsize the quantity of cars in GT7 just like they did from 600 in GT2 to 180 in GT3. Sometimes less is more. If you cut down 1200+ cars to even 500 (still a lot of cars!) what other features could you put in the game?.

Crap... I didn't know that GT2 had 600 cars!!!! I was thinking that GT7 should only have premium cars, but a very large amount of them

 

[DonZonda]

I think for example that Forza 5 did the right way for next gen, eventhough alot of people hating on the game. It doesnt have alot of content such as GT3 back in the days, but they've built everything new for next gen and didn't do copy&paste from the last gen.

I think this step should also be taken for GT7 I don't want those horrible standarts be back in GT7 but well it's not in our hands as usual PD will do what they want

 

[GT5Redsucker23]

A new challenger has arrived:

View attachment 196304 View attachment 196305 View attachment 196306 View attachment 196307 View attachment 196308

MY EYES!!!!

 

[David Bailey]

I can cop the odd pixilated headlight or a few jagged edges here and there. I don't expect perfection.
I don't really think photomode was designed to scrutinize the graphical inadequacies under the microscope like some of the examples above.
However one of the main selling points of GT over the years has been its been very easy on the eye... until now.
The vehicles have always been beautiful to look at. PD need to have a long hard think about standards in GT7.

 

[titleguy1]

I think PD should just get rid of all the duplicate cars for GT7, erase some of the cars that nobody cares about, and make the rest premium. The PS4 should be able to handle 800+ premium cars, right?

 

[Not_A_Guest]

I think PD should just get rid of all the duplicate cars for GT7, erase some of the cars that nobody cares about, and make the rest premium. The PS4 should be able to handle 800+ premium cars, right?

Well, it's not about what the PS4 itself can handle-- it's about what Polyphony Digital can handle. They are a small production team, and Kaz stubbornly refuses to relegate any of the workload to other studios. This is the reason why some tracks aren't up to par *cough* Laguna Seca *cough* and we STILL have standard cars. It's also the reason why we had to get a soundtrack made in a rush by Dyson Vacuums.

 

[avens]

Nope. Not possible.

The list is pretty much never ending. The sad things are these models will still be in GT7 on the PS4 and that PD managed to fool most of the buyers, with their phrase that all "standards" were updated, when you can clearly see most were not, those that were updated just received marginal upgrades and there's still tons of major offenders.

Here are some more from this very thread, besides the ones already posted recently (p. 92 and 93). Furthermore the following are only from the last 15 pages of this thread only, from page 78 to the most recent as I cba to search more, meaning there's more and more material on this thread and of cars we hadn't taken pictures of yet for these purposes.

Well, I can confirm that there is a "Dome" on the Dome Zero.

View attachment 178046

RUF type standards is totally cool but to have cars with this sort of quality in the game for a 3rd time? It's just silly (I won't boycott the game over it or anything I'm just laughing at the idea of cars that could look like this on the PS4)

View attachment 177435

On the Chaparral, PD should give the 2D a touch-up at least not for the car's history but for this...

View attachment 158673

I not believe Jim Hall had this in mind when he designed the 2D, having the poor driver's ass dragging the asphalt for extra grip.

I dont remember what version MX5 version it is, but its terrible. Its hard to believe this is a game from 2013.







This MX5 is a semi- premium one & it looks good.

The Chrysler Prowler is different for a standard car.
The outside is really bad.
View attachment 147748
Look at the lights on the bumperettes. Are those lights or 8-bit explosions?

Look at the *ahem* Plymouth badge! It looks like it was pasted on with scissors and poorly cut!
View attachment 147751

The interior is nice, apart from a couple things.
1. Detailing is good, but why does the speedometer show 100 mph and 3000 rpm!? The picture was taken in photo mode!View attachment 147760
2. The seats are ugly.
View attachment 147756

your wish is my command.
View attachment 153870

 

[avens]

And it has to be said that other games/sims are modelling the engine bay, bottom of the car and every detail, meaning that PD's "premiums" are already outdated. Take a look at footage from Forza5, DriveClub, Assetto Corsa and iRacing and you'll see PD's premiums are standard compared to them.

In 10 years us fans and the competition will laugh at their current "premium" models, just like we do when looking at these "standard" cars that are still present in GT6 and will be in GT7.

The same goes about tracks too. The standard/premium distinction is applicable to tracks as well clear when you look at Laguna Seca, Motegi and others, but the point here is that the current premium tracks are already quite outdated, now that Forza5, Assetto Corsa, iRacing, etc. laser scan them so the layout is perfect instead of a mere approximation and without bumps. Even GT6's Silverstone is not comparable to the current ... standard.

I think it's high time to outsource the modelling job,as it's clear PD can't do it. The job is pretty much remaking standard cars from scratch, updating premiums so they are fully modeled and making new premiums of increased quality. After that then comes updating or hopefully re-scanning and re-making the major offenders in tracks and so forth, which is obvious PD can't do it as they are pretty much 10 years behind schedule.

 

[Dan]

If GT6's "Premium" cars are GT7's "Standard" cars, then I wouldn't complain at all about the cars, aside from the sounds and tuning/customization.

 

[TCSTigersClaw]

Oh believe me, it WILL get worse
As i found not one, not two, but THREE potential cars that give the alto works a run for its money.(in GT6 this time)
Now lets see what these cars are.(as much as i would hate to)
1.Renault Megane 2.0 Coupe
You know how the "Infamous Suzuki" has a hexagonal grill? well, atleast they actually BOTHERED to make it look good. Here, they didn't bother, and the grill, obviously isn't its only issue. I still can't believe i wanted to put a picture of that in the french car photos thread.

2.Lotus Carlton
Is there even any reason for this to be in Gran Turismo? as i would miss it less than the weird toyota thing from GT4, and i even forgot about that toyota. As for the textures, it mostly looks like something that got drawn on with grafitti, i can't even look at it for more than 5 seconds!

And finally... the 3rd car... quite possibly the worst one
3.Toyota CELLICA GT-FOUR Rally Car from 1995
Now, some might say that it doesn't count because it has decals, but who said the worst standard ever can't have decals, and if that person did, then what are the thingss on the side of the Alto Works, huh?
I personally think that this thing right here looks like a car that, before going to rally, was used to see for how long a person could handle in a giant forest/desert full of dangerous animals, and it isn't only because one of its defense mechanisms was to be ugly. So ugly infact, that i only made two screenshots of it instead of three!

I may add that , Megane in GT6 has painted foglights......You can see them Green here.Buy a yellow renault and it will have yellow foglights.It is since day one...Also since GT4 it has wrong taillights @ night

 

[Not_A_Guest]

@avens it's always been "high time" to outsource the job. Sadly, I think it's safe to assume that Kaz is one of the most stubborn and reclusive people in the world

 

[tankuroded]

Click and take care of things.

Ironically:

 

[CeeJay]

The list is pretty much never ending. The sad things are these models will still be in GT7 on the PS4 and that PD managed to fool most of the buyers, with their phrase that all "standards" were updated, when you can clearly see most were not, those that were updated just received marginal upgrades and there's still tons of major offenders.

Here are some more from this very thread, besides the ones already posted recently (p. 92 and 93). Furthermore the following are only from the last 15 pages of this thread only, from page 78 to the most recent as I cba to search more, meaning there's more and more material on this thread and of cars we hadn't taken pictures of yet for these purposes.

Oh gosh the pictures of the 'bottoms' sticking out the bottom of the car just KILLS me every time I see it!! Hope no one here @ work is hearing me giggle

 

[RACECAR]

Well, I can confirm that there is a "Dome" on the Dome Zero.

View attachment 178046

Well, that's a bummer.

 

[Not_A_Guest]

Well, that's a bummer.

 

[Zer0]

And it has to be said that other games/sims are modelling the engine bay, bottom of the car and every detail, meaning that PD's "premiums" are already outdated. Take a look at footage from Forza5, DriveClub, Assetto Corsa and iRacing and you'll see PD's premiums are standard compared to them.

In 10 years us fans and the competition will laugh at their current "premium" models, just like we do when looking at these "standard" cars that are still present in GT6 and will be in GT7.

The same goes about tracks too. The standard/premium distinction is applicable to tracks as well clear when you look at Laguna Seca, Motegi and others, but the point here is that the current premium tracks are already quite outdated, now that Forza5, Assetto Corsa, iRacing, etc. laser scan them so the layout is perfect instead of a mere approximation and without bumps. Even GT6's Silverstone is not comparable to the current ... standard.

I think it's high time to outsource the modelling job,as it's clear PD can't do it. The job is pretty much remaking standard cars from scratch, updating premiums so they are fully modeled and making new premiums of increased quality. After that then comes updating or hopefully re-scanning and re-making the major offenders in tracks and so forth, which is obvious PD can't do it as they are pretty much 10 years behind schedule.

Do you know that the Forza super detailed models are never used in-game? are a big waste of resources just to take photos and look at them in Forzavista mode. There is no point to double or triple the modelling time per car when that additional detail have no real use during the game, like could require a very detailed and realistic damage model (a thing that will never happen with production cars). Also the drastic reduction in the catalog and increase of development time because the required work (even outsourcing), would be very bad received by the press and players. It happened recently with Forza 5.

People want and want but there are things that make no sense in a game like GT or are not realistic given the number of cars if are compared with other games with the features. At the end, bad decissions like that would hurt the game and the gameplay more than help and just to have a cool modeled bay engine to look at or take photos in non playable environments. The actual premiums are more than capable to top any PS4 gameplay models with very little work:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/is-gt6s-photo-mode-better-than-forza-5.312855/

About the use of a laser scanner to model tracks, is an old thing for PD. Nurburgring was scanned more than ten years back and the laser-tool it has been used in much other tracks and cars since then. The accuracy of PD's modelling is has been a very well known trademark since years, even before any other developer started to use and publicite the technology.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92507536&postcount=1772
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92449147&postcount=1517
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121733842&postcount=7246
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=118090193&postcount=7062

Don't confuse accuracy with more polygons or better textures, those are hardware dependant and will improve in PS4.

 

[1241Penguin]

People want and want but there are things that make no sense in a game like GT or are not realistic given the number of cars if are compared with other games with the features. At the end, bad decissions like that would hurt the game and the gameplay more than help and just to have a cool modeled bay engine to look at or take photos in non playable environments. The actual premiums are more than capable to top any PS4 gameplay models with very little work:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/is-gt6s-photo-mode-better-than-forza-5.312855/

More detail in the models can translate to better visual damage.

You want to know what a bad decision is? Continually wasting time on 10 year old models when it is already way past their bedtime.

 

[Zer0]

More detail in the models can translate to better visual damage.

You want to know what a bad decision is? Continually wasting time on 10 year old models when it is already way past their bedtime.

When better visual damage is not limited by the detail of the car but other external factors, like brand licenses contracts, makes no sense to waste time and resources.

GT games are about a big car catalog, deal with that. If finally happens I can bet that the standards in GT7 will not be the same untouched 10 years models that you can see ocasionally in GT6. I know that this is Drama Planet but just wait and see.

 

[Not_A_Guest]

More detail in the models can translate to better visual damage.

Not really. Take a look at Burnout Paradise. The second best damage visuals I've ever seen in a game come from a 6 year old game. You know why? Because...

brand licenses contracts

I will admit that the textures in BP aren't as hot as GT's should be. But that being said, more polygons and more processing powerrrrrrrrrrrrr does not necessarily mean better damage modelling and just car modelling in general.

 

[1241Penguin]

When better visual damage is not limited by the detail of the car but other external factors, like brand licenses contracts, makes no sense to waste time and resources.

Not familiar with licensing issues.

Even so, modelled engine bays and other various parts of the car are quickly becoming the norm given the list of games (that Avens made) that have these parts modelled. I predict sometime in the future that PD/GT will once again be playing catch-up to other big racing games.

GT games are about a big car catalog, deal with that.

I always thought PD did it so that they had something to advertise.

If finally happens I can bet that the standards in GT7 will not be the same untouched 10 years models that you can see ocasionally in GT6. I know that this is Drama Planet but just wait and see.

That's quite the baseless assumption.

 

[Not_A_Guest]

@1241Penguin "licensing issues:" My understanding of this is when it is in the license agreement between a developer and a car manufacturer to keep the damage modelling to a minimum. The manufacturers do this because they don't want their cars to look bad. The developers do this because it means $$$ for them, or they given no choice in the matter.

Also, I really do hope that PD eventually outsources some part of their workload, because they are EVIDENTLY burdened (what with standard cars and outdated tracks).

 

[1241Penguin]

@1241Penguin "licensing issues:" My understanding of this is when it is in the license agreement between a developer and a car manufacturer to keep the damage modelling to a minimum. The manufacturers do this because they don't want their cars to look bad. The developers do this because it means $$$ for them, or they given no choice in the matter.

Interesting. I take it PD is either being cheap and unwilling to pay more for the ability to model more detailed damage or PD is simply unable to model good damage.

 

[Zer0]

Not familiar with licensing issues.

Even so, modelled engine bays and other various parts of the car are quickly becoming the norm given the list of games (that Avens made) that have these parts modelled. I predict sometime in the future that PD/GT will once again be playing catch-up to other big racing games.

Forza is the closest to GT in a large number of auto makers licensed brands and road cars, meaning combined restrictions problems in a unique gameplay format. Can you explain how the more detailed Forzavista cars in FM4 or FM5 have been translated to a better visual damage compared to the previous FM3 for example?

I always thought PD did it so that they had something to advertise.

It's one of the major features of the series and what makes the game unique, even today, and a success at its first attempt in 1997.

That's quite the baseless assumption.

Is not different as yours. I'm just looking at the updated standards (semi premiums?) in GT6 and you are just looking at the worst non updated standards, assuming that would look the same in GT7 as oposite than me.

 

[Not_A_Guest]

Interesting. I take it PD is either being cheap and unwilling to pay more for the ability to model more detailed damage or PD is simply unable to model good damage.

No, I believe that PD has just been overburdened/ out of its given budget. That's what I like to believe. The reason behind a lack of good damage modelling can be whatever you want it to be.

 

[Tornado]

It's one of the major features of the series and what makes the game unique, even today, and a success at its first attempt in 1997.

You know, there's also quite a few practical differences between GT4's or even GT2's "Big car catalog" and, say, GTPSP's "Big car catalog." Nevermind GT5/GT6's "big car catalog."