"Standards" the good, the bad and the ugly

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by bodger, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. CSMDuty11

    CSMDuty11

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    Oh believe me, it WILL get worse
    As i found not one, not two, but THREE potential cars that give the alto works a run for its money.(in GT6 this time)
    Now lets see what these cars are.(as much as i would hate to)
    1.Renault Megane 2.0 Coupe
    You know how the "Infamous Suzuki" has a hexagonal grill? well, atleast they actually BOTHERED to make it look good. Here, they didn't bother, and the grill, obviously isn't its only issue. I still can't believe i wanted to put a picture of that in the french car photos thread.
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    2.Lotus Carlton
    Is there even any reason for this to be in Gran Turismo? as i would miss it less than the weird toyota thing from GT4, and i even forgot about that toyota. As for the textures, it mostly looks like something that got drawn on with grafitti, i can't even look at it for more than 5 seconds!
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    And finally... the 3rd car... quite possibly the worst one
    3.Toyota CELLICA GT-FOUR Rally Car from 1995
    Now, some might say that it doesn't count because it has decals, but who said the worst standard ever can't have decals, and if that person did, then what are the thingss on the side of the Alto Works, huh?
    I personally think that this thing right here looks like a car that, before going to rally, was used to see for how long a person could handle in a giant forest/desert full of dangerous animals, and it isn't only because one of its defense mechanisms was to be ugly. So ugly infact, that i only made two screenshots of it instead of three!
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  2. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    I have completely underestimated how worse it could've got. Those definately look plucked from a PS2 game and just thrown in. I'm not even sure photoshop could save those.
     
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  3. FoRiZon

    FoRiZon

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  4. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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  5. David Bailey

    David Bailey

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    One of the selling points of GT is how many cars they boast. But looking at some of these examples this can only hurt the games quality.
    When I bought the Oreca Viper it asks if you want to drive the car now. The small floodlights below the main headlights were hexagonal!.
    They should downsize the quantity of cars in GT7 just like they did from 600 in GT2 to 180 in GT3. Sometimes less is more. If you cut down 1200+ cars to even 500 (still a lot of cars!) what other features could you put in the game?.
     
  6. CLowndes888

    CLowndes888

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    Crap... I didn't know that GT2 had 600 cars!!!! I was thinking that GT7 should only have premium cars, but a very large amount of them
     
  7. DonZonda

    DonZonda

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    I think for example that Forza 5 did the right way for next gen, eventhough alot of people hating on the game. It doesnt have alot of content such as GT3 back in the days, but they've built everything new for next gen and didn't do copy&paste from the last gen.

    I think this step should also be taken for GT7 I don't want those horrible standarts be back in GT7 but well it's not in our hands as usual PD will do what they want :D
     
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  8. GT5Redsucker23

    GT5Redsucker23

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  9. David Bailey

    David Bailey

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    I can cop the odd pixilated headlight or a few jagged edges here and there. I don't expect perfection.
    I don't really think photomode was designed to scrutinize the graphical inadequacies under the microscope like some of the examples above.
    However one of the main selling points of GT over the years has been its been very easy on the eye... until now.
    The vehicles have always been beautiful to look at. PD need to have a long hard think about standards in GT7.
     
  10. titleguy1

    titleguy1

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    I think PD should just get rid of all the duplicate cars for GT7, erase some of the cars that nobody cares about, and make the rest premium. The PS4 should be able to handle 800+ premium cars, right?
     
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  11. Not_A_Guest

    Not_A_Guest

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    Well, it's not about what the PS4 itself can handle-- it's about what Polyphony Digital can handle. They are a small production team, and Kaz stubbornly refuses to relegate any of the workload to other studios. This is the reason why some tracks aren't up to par *cough* Laguna Seca *cough* and we STILL have standard cars. It's also the reason why we had to get a soundtrack made in a rush by Dyson Vacuums.
     
  12. avens

    avens

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    The list is pretty much never ending. The sad things are these models will still be in GT7 on the PS4 and that PD managed to fool most of the buyers, with their phrase that all "standards" were updated, when you can clearly see most were not, those that were updated just received marginal upgrades and there's still tons of major offenders.

    Here are some more from this very thread, besides the ones already posted recently (p. 92 and 93). Furthermore the following are only from the last 15 pages of this thread only, from page 78 to the most recent as I cba to search more, meaning there's more and more material on this thread and of cars we hadn't taken pictures of yet for these purposes.

     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  13. avens

    avens

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    And it has to be said that other games/sims are modelling the engine bay, bottom of the car and every detail, meaning that PD's "premiums" are already outdated. Take a look at footage from Forza5, DriveClub, Assetto Corsa and iRacing and you'll see PD's premiums are standard compared to them.

    In 10 years us fans and the competition will laugh at their current "premium" models, just like we do when looking at these "standard" cars that are still present in GT6 and will be in GT7.

    The same goes about tracks too. The standard/premium distinction is applicable to tracks as well clear when you look at Laguna Seca, Motegi and others, but the point here is that the current premium tracks are already quite outdated, now that Forza5, Assetto Corsa, iRacing, etc. laser scan them so the layout is perfect instead of a mere approximation and without bumps. Even GT6's Silverstone is not comparable to the current ... standard.

    I think it's high time to outsource the modelling job,as it's clear PD can't do it. The job is pretty much remaking standard cars from scratch, updating premiums so they are fully modeled and making new premiums of increased quality. After that then comes updating or hopefully re-scanning and re-making the major offenders in tracks and so forth, which is obvious PD can't do it as they are pretty much 10 years behind schedule.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
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  14. Dan

    Dan Premium

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    If GT6's "Premium" cars are GT7's "Standard" cars, then I wouldn't complain at all about the cars, aside from the sounds and tuning/customization.
     
  15. TCSTigersClaw

    TCSTigersClaw

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    I may add that , Megane in GT6 has painted foglights......You can see them Green here.Buy a yellow renault and it will have yellow foglights.It is since day one...Also since GT4 it has wrong taillights @ night :p
     
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  16. Not_A_Guest

    Not_A_Guest

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    @avens it's always been "high time" to outsource the job. Sadly, I think it's safe to assume that Kaz is one of the most stubborn and reclusive people in the world :ouch:
     
  17. tankuroded

    tankuroded

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    [​IMG]

    Click and take care of things. :rolleyes:

    Ironically:

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  18. CeeJay

    CeeJay

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    Oh gosh the pictures of the 'bottoms' sticking out the bottom of the car just KILLS me every time I see it!! Hope no one here @ work is hearing me giggle :lol::lol::lol:
     
  19. RACECAR

    RACECAR Premium

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    Well, that's a bummer.
     
  20. Not_A_Guest

    Not_A_Guest

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  21. Zer0

    Zer0 (Banned)

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    Do you know that the Forza super detailed models are never used in-game? are a big waste of resources just to take photos and look at them in Forzavista mode. There is no point to double or triple the modelling time per car when that additional detail have no real use during the game, like could require a very detailed and realistic damage model (a thing that will never happen with production cars). Also the drastic reduction in the catalog and increase of development time because the required work (even outsourcing), would be very bad received by the press and players. It happened recently with Forza 5.

    People want and want but there are things that make no sense in a game like GT or are not realistic given the number of cars if are compared with other games with the features. At the end, bad decissions like that would hurt the game and the gameplay more than help and just to have a cool modeled bay engine to look at or take photos in non playable environments. The actual premiums are more than capable to top any PS4 gameplay models with very little work:

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/is-gt6s-photo-mode-better-than-forza-5.312855/

    About the use of a laser scanner to model tracks, is an old thing for PD. Nurburgring was scanned more than ten years back and the laser-tool it has been used in much other tracks and cars since then. The accuracy of PD's modelling is has been a very well known trademark since years, even before any other developer started to use and publicite the technology.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92507536&postcount=1772
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=92449147&postcount=1517
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121733842&postcount=7246
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=118090193&postcount=7062

    Don't confuse accuracy with more polygons or better textures, those are hardware dependant and will improve in PS4.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2014
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  22. 1241Penguin

    1241Penguin Premium

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    More detail in the models can translate to better visual damage.

    You want to know what a bad decision is? Continually wasting time on 10 year old models when it is already way past their bedtime.
     
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  23. Zer0

    Zer0 (Banned)

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    When better visual damage is not limited by the detail of the car but other external factors, like brand licenses contracts, makes no sense to waste time and resources.

    GT games are about a big car catalog, deal with that. If finally happens I can bet that the standards in GT7 will not be the same untouched 10 years models that you can see ocasionally in GT6. I know that this is Drama Planet but just wait and see.
     
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  24. Not_A_Guest

    Not_A_Guest

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    Not really. Take a look at Burnout Paradise. The second best damage visuals I've ever seen in a game come from a 6 year old game. You know why? Because...
    I will admit that the textures in BP aren't as hot as GT's should be. But that being said, more polygons and more processing powerrrrrrrrrrrrr does not necessarily mean better damage modelling and just car modelling in general.
     
  25. 1241Penguin

    1241Penguin Premium

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    Not familiar with licensing issues.

    Even so, modelled engine bays and other various parts of the car are quickly becoming the norm given the list of games (that Avens made) that have these parts modelled. I predict sometime in the future that PD/GT will once again be playing catch-up to other big racing games.
    I always thought PD did it so that they had something to advertise.
    That's quite the baseless assumption.
     
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  26. Not_A_Guest

    Not_A_Guest

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    @1241Penguin "licensing issues:" My understanding of this is when it is in the license agreement between a developer and a car manufacturer to keep the damage modelling to a minimum. The manufacturers do this because they don't want their cars to look bad. The developers do this because it means $$$ for them, or they given no choice in the matter.

    Also, I really do hope that PD eventually outsources some part of their workload, because they are EVIDENTLY burdened (what with standard cars and outdated tracks).
     
  27. 1241Penguin

    1241Penguin Premium

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    Interesting. I take it PD is either being cheap and unwilling to pay more for the ability to model more detailed damage or PD is simply unable to model good damage.
     
  28. Zer0

    Zer0 (Banned)

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    Forza is the closest to GT in a large number of auto makers licensed brands and road cars, meaning combined restrictions problems in a unique gameplay format. Can you explain how the more detailed Forzavista cars in FM4 or FM5 have been translated to a better visual damage compared to the previous FM3 for example?

    It's one of the major features of the series and what makes the game unique, even today, and a success at its first attempt in 1997.

    Is not different as yours. I'm just looking at the updated standards (semi premiums?) in GT6 and you are just looking at the worst non updated standards, assuming that would look the same in GT7 as oposite than me.
     
  29. Not_A_Guest

    Not_A_Guest

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    No, I believe that PD has just been overburdened/ out of its given budget. That's what I like to believe. The reason behind a lack of good damage modelling can be whatever you want it to be. ;)
     
  30. Tornado

    Tornado

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    You know, there's also quite a few practical differences between GT4's or even GT2's "Big car catalog" and, say, GTPSP's "Big car catalog." Nevermind GT5/GT6's "big car catalog."