The GT Sport Epic Whining and Crying Thread

[Spongeinside]

I'll try to put my thoughts 'on paper' in an somewhat orderly fashion so they make some sort of sense...

1) The MX-5 they raced...
It looks like a street car with a roll cage and wing.. not like the real MX-5 cup car at all.. that somehow really bothered me. They should have just modeled the real cup car.

2) The whole eSport and FIA thing.
I thought GT Sport would be a 'as real as it gets' type of game, for those that want the real racing experience. So NO fake tracks, real racing rules and procedures and recreations of real cars (see point 1). I'm not really bothered they put in some of the VGT cars to fill in the field though.. (as the VGT cars look like they're modified to sort of comply with the real car specs).

3) The photo mode / 'scapes'.
I somehow feel this doesn't belong in this game as per the previous point. I would rather prefer better on track photos than to take a picture of a (race) car on a city street or some desert.

4) VGT cars.
I thought VGT was a GT6 feature. So seeing new VGT's (supposedly exclusive?) in GT Sport kinda stings a bit. I keep hoping they continue to add VGT cars to GT6 but as I see it now, they just quit on GT6 and are going to add them only to GT Sport. I makes me feel cheated that I now not only have to buy a new game, but also a new console to play content that was supposed to be in GT6.

5) 50%? wt#
How can this just be 50%? They've been working on this supposedly for a few years now, so how can they release a full game in just 6 months if the first 50% took ~3 years? I'm hoping the first 50% was the hard part and the last 50% is the easy part that'll take far less time.
But if this '50% thing' isn't real, and what we saw yesterday is more like the complete thing with some minor things needing to be added/changed/updated. I'm really unimpressed, graphics seemed marginally better, the collisions looked really bad, maybe worse than GT6. The whole thing just felt like it was an marginally updated PS3 game, not like a game that takes advantage of the PS4 platform at all.

6) Bad driving
I can understand that the people they had there never played the game before so you can't expect them to do as good as they normally would have on GT6, but damn... They should have given them a lot more time to practice and to get a feel for the game. Some of the driving was pretty bad and I personally feel that, that makes the game look bad on such a 'high profile' unveiling. The start of the race on the Nordschleife felt marginally better than any open lobby race I've ever been in.

NOTE: I'm not saying they are bad drivers, they're probably 100000% better than I'll ever be. But the lack of practice and time to get used to the new game, didn't make them or the game look very good.


The whole unveiling felt like it was just a demo of 'what we have so far'. I expected something like a presentation with explanations and reveals of new features and a demo of the game interface and gameplay Than a 'eSport' event with races and actual big ass freaking trophies.

Oh and also, Kaz should really learn English. Relaying on a interpreter looks pathetic, it's the 21st century for f# sake.

 

[super_gt]

deleted

 

[FLX1981]

Soo, here are my whines and cries.

1. graphics wise it looks good (not mind blowing, except photomode). What really confuses me are the damn shadows. They look exactly like GT6 and are low res even in cockpit view. And yet even GT5 prologue had nice clean cockpit shadows. Also I haven't seen windshield reflections and dirt effects (not a big deal but most new racing games have it)

2. physics wise I can't judge until I play but some of the spins in the stream were weird. Also, crash physics same as GT1-GT6.

3. No word on damage. No damage shown at all. You can't showcase races like this where people just bump each other and crash into barriers like it's nothing. I mean, at least mechanical damage is a must.

4. sounds- some are alright, but it's nowhere near impressive. Still needs work.

5. That stream was supposed to be a LAN race right? why do cars still have the terrible laggy, janky movements like when I play online.

6. reports on bad framerate. I don't know, for these graphics it better run like a dream.

7. I personally never liked the GT5/GT6 camera, especially chase cam. This looks the same. Just copy Driveclub, PD.

Pretty much nailed my thoughts. I was ready to give GT another chance after skipping GT6 but the driving still looks so boring and non-visceral from cockpit view, the physics look weird and when the Corvette in that 5 lap Nords race got t-boned at 150 kph and both drivers just drove away as if nothing happened without a scratch on their cars, I just turned the stream off. Its 2016, stuff like that just doesnt cut it anymore if you wanna make a racing sim.

 

[Imari]

6) Bad driving
I can understand that the people they had there never played the game before so you can't expect them to do as good as they normally would have on GT6, but damn... They should have given them a lot more time to practice and to get a feel for the game. Some of the driving was pretty bad and I personally feel that, that makes the game look bad on such a 'high profile' unveiling. The start of the race on the Nordschleife felt marginally better than any open lobby race I've ever been in.

The funny thing is, good drivers can mostly hop between the big sims without really much adaptation at all, because they all drive more or less the same except on the very ragged edge.

If GTS requires significant time for adaptation for experienced racers, then that doesn't bode particularly well. Stuff like SRF requires time for adaptation, because to be quick you have to learn to drive in a very different way to what you might be used to.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I don't think PD help themselves when they still continually put the focus on how exceptional their graphics are in their photo modes and their menus, and then contrast it with the actual gameplay footage in the trailer like this;

But at least they have cars in the same racing category racing each other.

 

[Soundtrack]

To wash away the bad taste let's look at some AC gameplay:

You know you screwed up when a game made by 12 italian dudes in a garage has better graphics, sounds and physics than you.

Great vid there, and Assetto Corsa on PS4 is clearly on the purchase list. First opportunity to get a taste of a proper racing simulator on the console is highly anticipated here and will possibly influence further expectations in terms of physics. Still it doesn’t work for straight/fair comparison between the 2 games in my opinion.

A single car hot-lapping on an expensive 3 screens set-up and racing rig from an helmet mounted camera are possibly hard to beat in terms of “realism”. The sounds appear to be properly recorded too and the driving is flawless.👍 What it underlines, IMO, is that you don’t need incredibly ostentatious events and parties to properly showcase convincing and desirable gameplay. Yesterday’s event is still a bag of mixed emotions at this point, and I just can not understand why PD is seemingly missing simple and straightforward opportunities. How hard can it be to post properly captured gameplay at 1080P60 of decent driving performance? It’s not like they where lacking the required hardware, personnel and channels to achieve this... PD’s logic is sometimes so convoluted...

 

[colj00]

frankly im happy with it so far. as someone who waited patiently for both GT 5 and 6 and seeing what they had achieved, i set my standards bar low... no... optimistic. yes. and its got enough new stuff to keep me entertained for a while. i just hope its optimized and mostly bug-free, something the PS3 releases never achieved.

 

[JKgo]

...Oh yeah, there's something else I forgot to mention: good thing there was no damage in the game. Otherwise, last night's... uh, "competition", might've had zero winners thanks to absolutely everyone crashing and spinning at least once or more....

 

[eran0004]

The same 2D grass and tree textures, low polygon and texture environments, same crowds with the same animations (look left), the same low res flickering shadows in the same places (look at the far left for the flickering and far right for draw distance, same as GT6, and again on the pitlane fence during the race start), the same saw tooth shaped wheel arches...

It's not the same grass textures, and the trees are in 3D and are much more detailed than in GT6. I know that in the trailer there is a sequence where you see a really low quality section where there is a textured tree plane with a couple of identical trees placed in front of it, but given the quality of the rest of the track I'd say that the section you can see in the trailer is an unfinished part of the track and that it will most likely be covered by 3D trees in the final version.

I don't see any low polygon and texture environments in that picture you linked to, in fact the buildings appear to be more detailed than at Tokyo Route 246 in GT6, which I guess is the nearest comparison we've got.

The crowd on Nürburgring (and on many other tracks) in GT6 are low resolution 2D billboards. It's really hard to spot though unless you get really close to them or zoom in at them while in photo mode. The crowd that you see in the video from GT Sport appears to be in 3D, and the camera is too far away to be able to tell anything about the quality of the models. In the Nürburgring picture above you can see some of the crowd to the right though, and they appear to be of fairly high resolution. Since it's a still image it's possible that it could be the photomode version of the crowd, and that during actual gameplay they'll use a lower resolution model. But in any case it should be of way better quality than at comparable tracks in GT6.

The shadows do flicker a little, but they're of much higher quality than in GT6. The draw distance you see on the far right appears to be the draw distance of the highest quality shadows. During the race you can see the shadow resolution change with the distance to the camera.

The wheel arches are perfectly smooth on all cars except that one, so it's probably just a flaw with that single model. You can see the full grid here:



All in all, this is a long way from GT6 graphics.

 

[mister dog]

Something isn't right here, the PR shots look photorealistic, but gameplay footage looks totally different and frankly a bit underwhelming in general for being 3 years in on the PS4's life cycle. The amount of graphical detail on those publicity shots is so high that I'd wager even a high end PC with twice the power would struggle to reproduce it. My guess is most of these shots either come from photomode or are artificially enhanced, so basically they are misleading as they aren't representative at all of what it looks like during gameplay.

 

[G.T.Ace]

The wheel arches are perfectly smooth on all cars except that one, so it's probably just a flaw with that single model. You can see the full grid here:

It's simply a LOD bug, nothing more. Don't get why people discuss it that much here and in other board.

 

[eran0004]

Something isn't right here, the PR shots look photorealistic, but gameplay footage looks totally different and frankly a bit underwhelming in general for being 3 years in on the PS4's life cycle. The amount of graphical detail on those publicity shots is so high that I'd wager even a high end PC with twice the power would struggle to reproduce it. My guess is most of these shots either come from photomode or are artificially enhanced, so basically they are misleading as they aren't representative at all of what it looks like during gameplay.

It's most likely photomode. The level of detail looks pretty similar to the stream, but the light and anti-aliasing seems to be better.

 

[grind mouse]

I have really confidence that PD will brings to us the final version with better quality in all the aspects, they know how to do, and i'm really happy of this first gameplay ,the photoes,the tracks, the sound of cars looks very nice with turbo swoshh..but a thing that i really hate(in all the gt exept gt1 gt2) is the infinite sound of the tyres! is realistic? yes because it exist ,but please get the proper volume! i'm not refering of the tyres when you get spin or locked or drifting,those are ok,i speak about the "windy" sound in the replay spectator view mode, a little thing,but it will be better. Please do a better tyre's sound ,that is very important aspect when you wear the headphones.👍💡👎

 

[mister dog]

It's most likely photomode. The level of detail looks pretty similar to the stream, but the light and anti-aliasing seems to be better.

Those threes look way more detailed than what you saw in the gameplay footage of the ring though.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Personally I wouldn't put too much weight in anything graphics wise at this moment. PD disappointed on several levels in the past, but never on eye candy (standards excluded of course). What they pulled out of PS3 was quite amazing in that regard.

 

[eran0004]

Those threes look way more detailed than what you saw in the gameplay footage of the ring though.

To be honest it's pretty hard to tell how detailed the trees are in motion. But it doesn't look like there's that much of a difference:

 

[Fat Tyre]

@mister dog Isn't that what people that criticized the game (myself included) were hoping for? For PD to not waste all of the processing on graphics or eye candy? I think it looks pretty good, not exceptionally good but those graphics will more than do the job. At least they got rid of standard cars so there will be some consistency. The "some" is there because we don't know yet whether "standard tracks" (you know, the ones that look straight out of a PS2 game... cough, Deep Forest and others, cough...). If they do include them it will be a shame and this opportunity to start fresh will have been wasted yet again.

Now the problem with what I saw yesterday is that if they did leave quite a bit of headroom with those graphics than they're not taking advantage of it. Other key areas that needed more attention than graphics didn't seem like improved much and in some cases at all such as with damage. Actually win damage it seemed like they just gave up and went back to their GT is not about crashing cars" motto.

 

[Zuku]

Look guys let's just end the thread like this...

PD is now the Apple of the racing game genre. Everyone looked to them for latest and greatest back in the day, but now this. Which is kind of weird as just like GT5 Apple began to lose a bit of their edge after IPhone 5.

Everyone else is Android giving you the keys to make a great experience.

That's the best I got.

 

[Fat Tyre]

By the way, @Zuku my friend! Long time man, I remember I used to see you regularly in GT6 forums before I switched to Forza, maybe you should try it out yourself as well or drop by the forum to see what it's like.

 

[Chaos Control]

It is less than I expected overall at this point but I'm still hopeful improvements will come in some areas before the full release.

Me too. One thing to be hopefull for is that they said that, as of now, the game is only about 50% done. So there should be more added....better be, cause if Kaz makes me buy a Honda Fit again, blood will be spilt.

 

[Imari]

Personally I wouldn't put too much weight in anything graphics wise at this moment. PD disappointed on several levels in the past, but never on eye candy (standards excluded of course). What they pulled out of PS3 was quite amazing in that regard.

Yes and no. PS3 looked good but at significant cost to the frame rate.

They can't do that here if they want to support VR. The frame rate looked unstable on the stream to me, so if anything they'll have to lower the graphics from here. Which is fairly common these days, graphics in the final game are often worse than the early demo builds.

I wouldn't bank on the final graphics being significantly better than what we saw. I suspect they'll be roughly the same, and they could easily go either up or down.

Something isn't right here, the PR shots look photorealistic, but gameplay footage looks totally different and frankly a bit underwhelming in general for being 3 years in on the PS4's life cycle. The amount of graphical detail on those publicity shots is so high that I'd wager even a high end PC with twice the power would struggle to reproduce it. My guess is most of these shots either come from photomode or are artificially enhanced, so basically they are misleading as they aren't representative at all of what it looks like during gameplay.

The PR shots are photomode. All of them. There's always been a significant difference between in-game and photomode. That's kind of why they invented it, so that they could make bullshots and legitimately label them as in-game without falling foul of honesty in advertising laws.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You realize that "sport" is not french or something for 7, its actually the English language word sport. How you can have sport without other people is beyond me. There is no offline mode required, multiplayer only is fine. Besides I usually never play recent GT games offline, why would you when you can race?

Is soccer a sport? Hockey? Football? Baseball? How many of those games are released without an offline mode? Exactly.

I understand no offline mode is required, my point is that the franchise was built upon offline racing. Most people still don't race online. If you promise an extensive campaign mode 6 months ago you're going to lead most people to believe that they have a long offline season ahead of them if they don't want to dabble in the online portion of the game. When you come to deliver and your loyal fans find out "campaign mode" actually means license tests how do you think they are going to feel? Ripped off? Disappointed?
IMO it's a mistake not to include an offline career in any GT game, regardless if the focus is online or not. It's not hard to do, copy/paste GT4's career and fancy up the graphics.

Sure, it's exactly what I'm talking about . In other screens both of these are fully smooth, just like that Mercedes. View attachment 547972 View attachment 547973
It worked like that in GT6 too with cars that had it. I don't know how the tesselation works in GTS but since we already had fully tesselated cars on track in GT6 on PS3 I really doubt it will look worse here.

Cars don't look the same in photomode as they do on the track and in game. It was like that in GT5/6 and it'll be like that in every game.

 

[Need4Speed685]

Is it wrong for me to say this, but am I the only one who thinks that ol' Kazunori is starting to become the racing genre's own Peter Molyneux?

As in, he's made promises before that he hadn't fulfilled on previous games but didn't keep them as mentioned before.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Me too. One thing to be hopefull for is that they said that, as of now, the game is only about 50% done. So there should be more added....better be, cause if Kaz makes me buy a Honda Fit again, blood will be spilt.

This game can either be 50% complete or releasing in 6 months, not both.

 

[Samus]

This game can either be 50% complete or releasing in 6 months, not both.

Well it could easily be both in which case the game is either delayed or releases in 6 months nowhere near 100% complete.

 

[OHM_fusion]

Cars don't look the same in photomode as they do on the track. The wheel arches are a sign that the poly count is reduced when the cars are on track, similar to say Project Cars which does the same thing to enhance the car count and keep the fps up.

As far as I know Project Cars doesn't use tessellation on car models at all. In GT5 before tessellation there was a clear difference in Photo travel LOD and in-game models. In GT6 the models with tessellation had full detail even on track (in some circumstances), and due to tessellation some even had glitches - the Focus actually had fully smooth, tessellated wheel arches on track but they were blocky in Photo travel.

All I'm saying is that it's more logical to think this is a not-fully-optimized instance of tessellation at work rather than some kind of evidence that all cars will be low poly in-game.

 

[Milouse]

Admittedly, H.264 is the best compression

If you don't count H.265

Anyway, it's the first GT unveil that shows visuals* inferior to every other racing game on the market. At best, it's a good looking game that Sony failed to show. But having a strong historic in following closely PD development and GT build version progress, i'm not impressed at all here.

* : by visuals, i don't mean just gfx, but how the whole game looks, including cars physic and damages.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I don't have much to say about GT Sport but everything you guys said speaks pretty much sums up my feelings towards the game.

I immediately got bored of the stream the game was shown. It's practically GT6 was better visuals on PS4, and I have to say I'm very disappointed by PD's efforts. It's like they (AND KAZ) don't even try anymore so why do they even bother?...

Some posters on here told us that gtsport would blow the other games out of the waters for graphics. Remember when driveclub was revealed? that was a wow moment, the only thing that wowed yesterday was photomode but that isn't a game. I had to laugh at people saying gtsports would be the greatest thing since gt6, why don't these people realise PD are done? They are no longer relevant beyond marketing hype and a big backer, time for them to call it a day and bring in more creative young people.

You realize that "sport" is not french or something for 7, its actually the English language word sport. How you can have sport without other people is beyond me. There is no offline mode required, multiplayer only is fine. Besides I usually never play recent GT games offline, why would you when you can race?

Forza mototsport, has offline play. As does every other sports title.

It appears in the trailer itself too. On multiple cars.

and on the 650s's roof pillar

That is terrible.

Sure, it's exactly what I'm talking about . In other screens both of these are fully smooth, just like that Mercedes. View attachment 547972 View attachment 547973


It worked like that in GT6 too with cars that had it. I don't know how the tesselation works in GTS but since we already had fully tesselated cars on track in GT6 on PS3 I really doubt it will look worse here.

Fully smoothe in photomode. Photomode is a tool and should never be compared to gameplay to prove its has great graphics.

Great vid there, and Assetto Corsa on PS4 is clearly on the purchase list. First opportunity to get a taste of a proper racing simulator on the console is highly anticipated here and will possibly influence further expectations in terms of physics. Still it doesn’t work for straight/fair comparison between the 2 games in my opinion.

A single car hot-lapping on an expensive 3 screens set-up and racing rig from an helmet mounted camera are possibly hard to beat in terms of “realism”. The sounds appear to be properly recorded too and the driving is flawless.👍 What it underlines, IMO, is that you don’t need incredibly ostentatious events and parties to properly showcase convincing and desirable gameplay. Yesterday’s event is still a bag of mixed emotions at this point, and I just can not understand why PD is seemingly missing simple and straightforward opportunities. How hard can it be to post properly captured gameplay at 1080P60 of decent driving performance? It’s not like they where lacking the required hardware, personnel and channels to achieve this... PD’s logic is sometimes so convoluted...

The ps4 is nearly 3 year old tech, it was outdated when it released. Pd are limited by the console, just wait to see what they can do with unlimited power on the ps5.

It's not the same grass textures, and the trees are in 3D and are much more detailed than in GT6. I know that in the trailer there is a sequence where you see a really low quality section where there is a textured tree plane with a couple of identical trees placed in front of it, but given the quality of the rest of the track I'd say that the section you can see in the trailer is an unfinished part of the track and that it will most likely be covered by 3D trees in the final version.

I don't see any low polygon and texture environments in that picture you linked to, in fact the buildings appear to be more detailed than at Tokyo Route 246 in GT6, which I guess is the nearest comparison we've got.

The crowd on Nürburgring (and on many other tracks) in GT6 are low resolution 2D billboards. It's really hard to spot though unless you get really close to them or zoom in at them while in photo mode. The crowd that you see in the video from GT Sport appears to be in 3D, and the camera is too far away to be able to tell anything about the quality of the models. In the Nürburgring picture above you can see some of the crowd to the right though, and they appear to be of fairly high resolution. Since it's a still image it's possible that it could be the photomode version of the crowd, and that during actual gameplay they'll use a lower resolution model. But in any case it should be of way better quality than at comparable tracks in GT6.

The shadows do flicker a little, but they're of much higher quality than in GT6. The draw distance you see on the far right appears to be the draw distance of the highest quality shadows. During the race you can see the shadow resolution change with the distance to the camera.

The wheel arches are perfectly smooth on all cars except that one, so it's probably just a flaw with that single model. You can see the full grid here:



All in all, this is a long way from GT6 graphics.

unfortunately the races dont take place in photom8de.

Something isn't right here, the PR shots look photorealistic, but gameplay footage looks totally different and frankly a bit underwhelming in general for being 3 years in on the PS4's life cycle. The amount of graphical detail on those publicity shots is so high that I'd wager even a high end PC with twice the power would struggle to reproduce it. My guess is most of these shots either come from photomode or are artificially enhanced, so basically they are misleading as they aren't representative at all of what it looks like during gameplay.

4k photomode pics?

Personally I wouldn't put too much weight in anything graphics wise at this moment. PD disappointed on several levels in the past, but never on eye candy (standards excluded of course). What they pulled out of PS3 was quite amazing in that regard.

I have to disagree, I thought gt6 looked terrible and looked worse on my tv than gt5. Yesterday was confirmation pd have nothing more to offer to this genre. Gt5 poor, gt6 really poor, gts majorly lacking 3 years into the consoles life span. Its over boys.

 

[AncientDiety]

Something isn't right here, the PR shots look photorealistic, but gameplay footage looks totally different and frankly a bit underwhelming in general for being 3 years in on the PS4's life cycle. The amount of graphical detail on those publicity shots is so high that I'd wager even a high end PC with twice the power would struggle to reproduce it. My guess is most of these shots either come from photomode or are artificially enhanced, so basically they are misleading as they aren't representative at all of what it looks like during gameplay.

They are Bull shots, the fact that people still fall for it is ridiculous. The game doesn't look as good as their PR screens.

 

[Zuku]

By the way, @Zuku my friend! Long time man, I remember I used to see you regularly in GT6 forums before I switched to Forza, maybe you should try it out yourself as well or drop by the forum to see what it's like.

Wish I could, but is it so bad I can't be bothered with consoles after switching to PC gaming?

Seriously it's like a complete takeover even Uncharted 4(which looks great) isn't enough to sway me at this point the only thing that could get me to come back to consoles is Crash Bandicoot Reboot. While everyone here was playing GT1 etc. I was on Crash Bandicoot like a mad man.