The Hillsborough Disaster Files

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So, after 20 years the files have been published and the allegations of a cover up and the failure of the South Yorkshire police and ambulance services have been proven true according to initial reports.

Thoughts?
 
Liquid
So, after 20 years the files have been published and the allegations of a cover up and the failure of the South Yorkshire police and ambulance services have been proven true according to initial reports.

Thoughts?
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Either way, a terrible disaster in british football.
 
I am a life-long Liverpool supporter, and if I hadn't been unable to get time off work, I would have been at Hillsborough that day. My friend was, with his two young sons. They were lucky, they got alive, but neither of his sons have set foot in a football stadium since. They had nightmares for a long time afterwards.

I've read the lies about it for years, but I know what my friend witnessed, and I know who I've always believed. Finally, the truth has come out, but it's appalling that it should have taken so long.

I think everyone who had any part of organising the cover-up, whomever they may be, should now face criminal charges. They are scum, and they are liars, and they should be made to face the consequences.
 
Liquid
So, after 20 years the files have been published and the allegations of a cover up and the failure of the South Yorkshire police and ambulance services have been proven true according to initial reports.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Got any links to this information for us international members?
 
Keef
Got any links to this information for us international members?
Click to expand...

Linking is quite time consuming, sorry. And there's no BB help on the app.

Look up "Hillsborough disaster" on wiki, and the article on the case files is the top story on BBC News UK.
 
I'd like to hear what Famine's thoughts on this are, what with Hillsborough being Sheffield Wednesday's ground. It was before my time and I don't know what the ramifications were for the Owls as a company.
 
Horrific day in football. Apparently, the "Justice for the 96" chants, banners, and efforts were worthwhile all these years.

Officials covered up facts and should now face charges. That paper will always be below "birdcage material."

The best piece of media ever produced on the subject by Americans is a podcast created by the Dallas Liverpool Supporters Club.

From an American Liverpool supporter to the families of the 96 - YNWA.
 
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Liquid
I'd like to hear what Famine's thoughts on this are
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I think that'd be unwise.

I can relate that a friend of mine was a junior officer at the time and that he personally laid the dead out on advertising boards and... observed one of the allegations laid by the Sun against some Liverpool fans (nothing to do with urine though - that one's all fabrication).

He never really talked about it much between then and his death. That's pretty much the sum total of what I'm going to say too.
 
Fair enough Famine. It's a difficult subject from all sides.

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I wonder if today's events will lead to prosecutions.
 
Just got through reading the BBC article. This is a great tragedy in English football. I hope that prosecutions and wrongful death lawsuits will become of this.
 
Two of my friends brothers were there, one died and the other is still in a vegetative state although does have some ability to communicate even though his parents were told he wouldn't last 6 months.

I'm glad the truth is out, and to be honest I really didn't expect it to happen, but it's still a difficult time. I hope this brings the family of the victims some resolution and the accidental death verdict is changed.


RIP
 
I fear that the same thing would happen to Cowboys Stadium here in Dallas fifteen or 20 years from now. There are plenty of places in the stadium design where it could collapse due to age on top of standing room only guests.

This sediment should be echoed throughout all of the stadiums around the globe.
 
Of course it was the emergency service's fault. Were they really so blind to see that all these people wouldn't fit in the stadium? And it's taken them 20 years to finally admit it? Disgusting. As for The Sun? For all the stuff they've done, that paper shouldn't even be allowed to be printed anymore.
 
Katiegan
Of course it was the emergency service's fault. Were they really so blind to see that all these people wouldn't fit in the stadium? And it's taken them 20 years to finally admit it? Disgusting. As for The Sun? For all the stuff they've done, that paper shouldn't even be allowed to be printed anymore.
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I think you mean "the scum"
 
I find it interesting that it is only rarely mentioned that when it really comes down to it, the Liverpool fans that were turning up without tickets and trying to force their way through the gates are also to blame. Had the police not opened the large gates, we would be dealing with how there should be justice for those who were crushed outside of the stadium, and how the SYP should have opened the gate.

Could it have been avoided? Yes, but it was only a matter of time before it would've happened considering the attitudes at the time of the authorities and the fans themselves.


I still offer my condolences to the victims families, as most of those who died that day were likely not part of the initial surge into the stadium if they were near the front and completely innocent.
 
Tesla
I find it interesting that it is only rarely mentioned that when it really comes down to it, the Liverpool fans that were turning up without tickets and trying to force their way through the gates are also to blame. Had the police not opened the large gates, we would be dealing with how there should be justice for those who were crushed outside of the stadium, and how the SYP should have opened the gate.

Could it have been avoided? Yes, but it was only a matter of time before it would've happened considering the attitudes at the time of the authorities and the fans themselves.

I still offer my condolences to the victims families, as most of those who died that day were likely not part of the initial surge into the stadium if they were near the front and completely innocent.
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The "ticketless fans" thing has been shown to be part of the "sexing up" that the police did after the disaster as part of their campaign to deflect any blame from themselves onto the fans.

There was no "initial surge", there was a build-up of people outside the ground, all trying to get inside. Which is what they'd travelled to Sheffield to do.

There was a series of failings that lead to the disaster, some of which took place long before the day in question. But this idea that it was the fans' fault has been proven to be nonsense to the point where the PM has had to apologise for precious governments saying as much.

But that's not really the issue anymore. What needs to be looked into is how two police forces could get together to basically lie about what happened to cover their backs. When you see how much of the evidence was altered to tell the story they wanted to tell, rather than what actually happened, it's just mind-boggling.
 
And a year on, that inquest is now underway. Recently, there are now fresh accusations that interviewees to the police were threatened by the West Midlands Police, when they stated criticisms of South Yorkshire Police.

According to John, the officers refused to let him read his own statement, saying, "I've written what you told me. All you need to do is sign this now."
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Nick Braley went to the semi-final as a neutral, excited to have been given a ticket by a friend.

He says the officer taking his statement was not impressed.

"I'd been wearing a Free Mandela T-shirt," he says.

This prompted aggressive questions. "Was I a student agitator? Was I a member of the Socialist Workers Party? I'm just a fan at a game of football. He then turned on me and said I was a criminal with a grudge against the police."

At one point, he says, the police suggested he had not even been at the game. When he produced his ticket, he was told he could have found it.
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From the same article on SNM;

A subsequent inquiry carried out by West Midlands Police into the handling of Hillsborough by their counterparts in South Yorkshire has also become the focus for possible criminal conduct after the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) found ''differences'' in witness statements taken from fans.
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[Nick Braley] said that when he told West Midlands officers that he thought South Yorkshire police failings had caused the disaster, he was told he could face prosecution.
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Interesting.
 
BBC

Former Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, the match commander in charge of the Liverpool vs Nottingham Forest game on that day, has admitted that he feels responsible for the 96 deaths.

He denies claims that he "bottled it" on the day in light of the unfolding disaster but accepts that he froze.

Earlier at the inquest in Warrington, Duckenfiled admitted he lied about fans jimmying open the gate which led to 2,000 fans surging into an already full lower tier. On the day in 1989 Chief Supt Duckenfield told Graham Kelly, an official at the FA, that some fans had stormed their way through the closed Gate C when in actuality the police had ordered the gate to be opened.

Duckenfield said the situation was one he was untrained for and unprepared for, that it was unprecedented.

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So it has become very apparent that the police were at fault for the crush on that day and have been covering their hides for 26 years. As I had already written in my posts a year ago the West Midlands police in charge of the investigation forged false reports as to what happened on the day, putting the blame on the fans rather than the South Yorkshire police in charge on the day and were threatening officers and witnesses who dared to say any different.

It's a bloody disgrace and I hope there are gaol sentences on the way. I don't care who it is or how high up they are.
 
With the evidence of corruption and self-serving obfuscation of all kinds in the British establishment over the years this just adds to the feeling of sickness I get about what the British institution has become.

It was so easy at the time to believe the lies spread by the police to the newspapers, Hillsborough happened at a time when drunken, riotous behaviour was part-and-parcel of soccer events. I hope that those responsible for the criminal acts of cover-up are found and made to answer for their actions.
 
Liquid
So it has become very apparent that the police were at fault for the crush on that day
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One thing I'm still somewhat unclear on is where the pressure at the back came from to crush the people at the front.

Opening or not opening a gate or a tunnel is one thing, people pouring down it to the point of stampede is another - I'd love to know why there was such an overwhelming desire to be over there and not over here that resulted in the movement of people in that fashion. Were they being charged by horses and driven into the pens?
 
Funny that, I've always wondered about that point. the people coming into the tunnel could quite obviously see that the crowd was not moving, so why not move away to another entrance? It's possible they were throttled in, but all it would have taken was a collective no, or standing still to make the police stop the pushing. I know that a massive amount of what happened has to be placed solely at the feet of the police on the day, but the crowd have a small part to play as well.

Another thing I've been thinking about is 'why has there been such a search for the truth?'. I'm not being callous, but if it has been the only thing that most families have lived for, and in a lot of cases this is true, what replaces it? I can see a lot of people breaking down because there is nothing to move on to after the inquest. Maybe I'm underestimating people's resolve, but I don't know how I'd cope with such a climax to 20-odd years of desperation and aggression.
 
Unfortunately that's how crushes happen - people see a movement in front and press forward without necessarily knowing what's going on ahead. In this case there was a funnel effect which made it much worse.
 
TenEightyOne
Unfortunately that's how crushes happen - people see a movement in front and press forward without necessarily knowing what's going on ahead. In this case there was a funnel effect which made it much worse.
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Imagine if people did that in cars in a car park. Although obviously, they wouldn't get killed as the cars structure would protect them.
 
Nessy
Imagine if people did that in cars in a car park. Although obviously, they wouldn't get killed as the cars structure would protect them.
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They wouldn't be pressed as tightly as people on foot who have an urge to get from A to B in a (relatively) small space. Time was ticking away and the fans wanted to get in to see the match. The match controller should have known better than he did, which he admits, the whole thing was badly messed up.
 

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