The level up/credit/xp system in this game is broken

[Spagetti69]

How is it a longer game, I've nearly done all the events?

 

[CaptainHarlock]

How is it a longer game, I've nearly done all the events?

Did you FINISH the game? Or did you merely "beat it"?

 

[arrowp]

like I said, give people an option: short, medium, long career. like F1 2010.
and remove xp, it's annoying and useless.

 

[CaptainHarlock]

like I said, give people an option: short, medium, long career. like F1 2010.
and remove xp, it's annoying and useless.

F1 2010 is a completely different animal, in that you have a structured series of events, point totals, and an ultimate "winner" at the end of nineteen races. The problem is that GT5 is not structured as a "career" style game. It's really more like club racing, or if you will a giant "track day" session, in that you're driving against other cars in the same spec. So unless you abandon the current format all together and go more of a FIA racing "season" style game, I don't see how you are going to accomplish this.

 

[ruf-ctr2]

.......
Go into the 200 A-Spec threads in the GT4 forums, find some screen shots of A-Spec totals and see if you can see the mileage driven by people in that game. Many of us drive tens of thousands of race miles, repeating the same race series a myriad times in different cars in different states of tune.

Why?

Not to earn xp or cash (tho' the pennies help to buy the next raft of cars ) but because the driving is fun, especially when you are trying your darndest to win hugely undergunned against the AI .

But, as I said, the progression system in the current incarnation is unwelcome. Before, you had to get your licences and complete the evernts layer by layer but that, other than lack of cash for the right cars, was all that 'held' you back.

And that is the big difference between GT4 and GT5 - in GT4 there were a lot of interesting events I did several times - because I liked them. In GT5 there are only a few events where it is reasonable to repeat them in order to get XP to progress through the game....

I would really like to do the "4h Nürburgring" event right now - but I can't because I don't have the appropriate level - and with a high probability I never will have it - because I don't want to do the "4 hour Mazda race" on Szukuba (I hate that track) and the "Indy 500" (Driving around a oval track for multiple hours is just not my kind of "fun".) etc. and even some of them multiple times in order to do that race....

In previous GTs I could have done it because I have already finished my "S" license to prove that I am a "good enough driver" for such events....

 

[ruf-ctr2]

See that's where you walk a fine line. If this game was structured to be "wham, bam, thank you ma'am", then I have a feeling that everyone would scream bloody murder about how it was "too short". I've read in many instances many gamers are angry about short games. Now we have one that's "too long"? This is what everyone WANTED, isn't it? Longer games! Apparently that's not the case.

I think the other thing is that, like you said, gamers have changed. It's not so much getting older, but they want fast action, jump in and jump out. And I think they want to dominate out of the gate. Which is why we have things like paid unlocks that you buy on Playstation Store.

I really don't have an ending here. But I will say that this game hasn't changed, just everyone else has.

The problem with GT5 is not that it is too long - the problem is that is is a short game that was artificially made "long" (repeating the same few races over and over again to gain XP)

 

[CaptainHarlock]

The problem with GT5 is not that it is too long - the problem is that is is a short game that was artificially made "long" (repeating the same few races over and over again to gain XP)

Well that's what you're going to get when you demand longer games. They're going to be crammed with filler to artificially prolong the experience.

 

[arrowp]

F1 2010 is a completely different animal, in that you have a structured series of events, point totals, and an ultimate "winner" at the end of nineteen races. The problem is that GT5 is not structured as a "career" style game. It's really more like club racing, or if you will a giant "track day" session, in that you're driving against other cars in the same spec. So unless you abandon the current format all together and go more of a FIA racing "season" style game, I don't see how you are going to accomplish this.

So give it a 'free roam' style: all races are unlocked, only limiter is license and car. you got the license and car, you're free to race.

xp is an artificial leveling made to extend the game in a very poor, limited way (through repetition and locking races/cars).

also, why in pete's name i can't sell a car i just paid 20 mill? some of the 'new' rules are very frustrating

 

[CaptainHarlock]

So give it a 'free roam' style: all races are unlocked, only limiter is license and car. you got the license and car, you're free to race.

xp is an artificial leveling made to extend the game in a very poor, limited way (through repetition and locking races/cars).

also, why in pete's name i can't sell a car i just paid 20 mill? some of the 'new' rules are very frustrating

And there we have what people really want; shortcuts. The XP is there so that you have to EARN your way to those races, not so that you do those races and none of the other ones. A big part of this game is that you don't dominate right out of the gate, and that you do all these races and you feel like you've EARNED those cars. It defeats the purpose if you get everything out of the gate. That's where I think gamers have changed. They want everything now, where before they were willing to actually put some time into a game. I'm guessing the next idea someone is going to have is a paid unlock code.

As Ringo Starr once said; You have to pay your dues if you want to sing the blues, and you know it don't come easy.

 

[arrowp]

if gamers changed, and they did, the industry must change too. games changed so much in the last 25 years i've been playing, some people dislike, most people like.

i was expecting a more modern approach for this game (see my post a few pages back), instead they kept the somewhat saturated formula and added xp, which is an artificial way of giving the game some extra life.

GT was the first game with incredible graphics and physics. Other games came, some more arcadey, some more realistic. They had to give the game some evolution, instead they took a very conservative approach, changed almost anything and added xp.

i don't want anything easy, i just don't have 8 hours/day to play anymore and i also don't have the will and patience to play repetition to oblivion.

 

[fr33style]

So what exactly would the game's life of a racing game be? Race every track once? Race every car once? Race every event once? Race every car on every track once?

And how would the xp and credit system intervene in this?

Read Enzo_Guy's post above yours. It's not hard - they got it right in GT4. They had enough races and good rewards for winning tournaments - which you could choose to sell for good money (like in every other GT). Having every event finished and having to replay the same race 20 times just to unlock ONE event is unprecedented in GT.

 

[AgentGT]

I dont understand why people bought this game if they dont like racing?

Very few racing games lock away cars, races and even tracks to this degree. Some even have everything unlocked from the beginning so you can drive/race the car you want whenever you want.

I think that's where the problem is - people want to drive on the tracks the like with they cars like, the game part prevents this to a significant degree. The price for indulging your sweet tooth can be quite high.

 

[CaptainHarlock]

Very few racing games lock away cars, races and even tracks to this degree. Some even have everything unlocked from the beginning so you can drive/race the car you want whenever you want.

I think that's where the problem is - people want to drive on the tracks the like with they cars like, the game part prevents this to a significant degree. The price for indulging your sweet tooth can be quite high.

The idea is to EARN (a strange word for gamers I know) those cars. That's what a lot of people don't seem to get. The cars aren't "locked", you just haven't earned them yet. And today with things like paid unlocks, there's this feeling that you shouldn't have to put in any effort.

My brother said about this that you have gamers who have a reputation for being lazy, and now they are so lazy that they don't want to even put any effort into playing a game. I'm starting to agree with him.

 

[Tornado]

Well that's what you're going to get when you demand longer games. They're going to be crammed with filler to artificially prolong the experience.

Wasn't a problem in GT4. Wasn't a problem in GT3. Wasn't a problem in GT2. (Probably) wasn't a problem in GT1. GT2 in particular had hundreds and hundreds of different events to race in.

 

[linkov]

Quoting perhaps the greatest post on this forum


"Previous games in the series rewarded investing time into the game with longevity. And despite that, you weren't locked into a specific play style. You could build up several cars at once and try them in several events at once. You could tackle events out of order, and even build up cars specifically for each individual event if you wanted to (this was especially true in GT2, but it was very prevalent in GT4 as well). The games had a wealth of depth despite the open-endedness.

GT5 has no open-endedness. The game forces you to play it by its terms, and if you don't you aren't able to progress. Even by itself that would be an issue for someone fresh off of any of the other games in the series. But to top it all off, the depth of previous games is gone anyways, replaced with a pretentious and transparent leveling system that eliminates any and all freedom enjoyed by previous games in the series out of a shallow attempt to hide that there are barely any events to complete. That is a major problem, and it is a problem regardless of whether you choose to acknowledge it or not."

~ Toronado

 

[stanlers]

The worst thing about grinding is that they obviously knew it was necessary, and actually designed the game around that fact. You absolutely have to complete each series several times to level up enough for the next one, and you can't farm prize cars for whatever reason anymore.


But when you're grinding a race, you can't just finish, click retry and do it again. You have to quit, wait for the menus to load, start the event over, wait for the track to load, and then go around again. Every other GT, even Prologue, had all the same options at the end of a race - replay options etc, but always an option to race again, too. It's even worse when you forget to swap your tyres or set the gear ratios and don't realise until you start racing, then have to wait through 2 or 3 minutes of loading screens and menus to change them and try again.

 

[gaming25]

Wasn't a problem in GT4. Wasn't a problem in GT3. Wasn't a problem in GT2. (Probably) wasn't a problem in GT1. GT2 in particular had hundreds and hundreds of different events to race in.

Its the events then. Not necessarily the level system. The XP system works. There isnt a "design flaw" with it. But it seems like people would want more events.

 

[garbuckle]

I got really sad when I had to do some grinding just to get my B-spec Bob up from level 13 to 14.

Seriously... B-spec grinding? That's like adding grinding to grinding! lol

 

[KENJIusa]

But when you're grinding a race, you can't just finish, click retry and do it again. You have to quit, wait for the menus to load, start the event over, wait for the track to load, and then go around again. Every other GT, even Prologue, had all the same options at the end of a race - replay options etc, but always an option to race again, too. It's even worse when you forget to swap your tyres or set the gear ratios and don't realise until you start racing, then have to wait through 2 or 3 minutes of loading screens and menus to change them and try again.

This is the reason I stopped play GT5 after 4 days, it's just extremely annoying:tdown:This game has serious presentation problem

 

[Tornado]

Its the events then. Not necessarily the level system. The XP system works. There isnt a "design flaw" with it. But it seems like people would want more events.

If there were more events, the level system would have no reason to exist.

And even if there were more events, there would still be the fact that the game is extremely linear for basically no reason while previous games in the series were (more or less) completely open ended.

 

[PS3LUV3R]

Im level 26 and its getting to a point where I REALLY want to stop playing...

 

[NLxAROSA]

Personally, I think the XP/credits system is alright (yes,really ). But they left out XP/creds for online races, which resulted in being forced to grind (because there is no other way to gain XP/creds you have to follow this linear path). I think it will all make sense once they implement XP/creds for online.

 

[iLex]

Wasn't a problem in GT4. Wasn't a problem in GT3. Wasn't a problem in GT2. (Probably) wasn't a problem in GT1. GT2 in particular had hundreds and hundreds of different events to race in.

I agree.
The whole leveling and credit system seems to be there to hide the lack of actual gameplay that's in the game.
For me it wouldn't have been a problem if it was left out and the credit/prize car system was more like GT4.

Personally, I think the XP/credits system is alright (yes,really ). But they left out XP/creds for online races, which resulted in being forced to grind (because there is no other way to gain XP/creds you have to follow this linear path). I think it will all make sense once they implement XP/creds for online.

Some people don't play online. I think any game should be playable offline (unless it is ONLY online).
They should give XP for real experience though... Any track you drive in any setting with any car should give XP.

 

[StevenDunn99]

You can get to Aspec level 26 without grinding.

I was not sure where to put this, but this thread seems as good as anywhere. Last night I reached Aspec level 26 and although there were a couple of mini-grinds (c10 races each) when I was close to opening something up and few repeats due to bad driving, I can still earn more XP without grinding, I am pretty sure there is not enough to get to level 27 - but if there is (maybe Tsukuba 4hr Roadster and golding wet Nurburgring will surprise me), then that will be the absolute limit.

My progress; golded all races to Extreme plus the first Endurance race + golded 101/115 Licences and Special Events.

What I could still earn; most significantly I have not golded (not focussed on) the 10 Nurburgring wet events, though they are all at silver.

fwiw; I have not even played Bspec so cannot comment on that side of the game.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Some people don't play online. I think any game should be playable offline (unless it is ONLY online).

True. 👍 But even so, I still think it's more a balancing issue than the system being broken.

 

[coyote_green]

Here's the deal. It is bad enough that I dropped cash for a racing SIMULATOR and was duped into buying a racing GAME, but now I have people trying to tell me that I am a lazy cheater because I have no desire to spend hours racing cars I don't like? Ridiculous! I have earned these cars. I have shown myself to be competent by passing all of my licenses and I have the cash to buy the car I want. What is the problem? If you have the time and desire to "earn" your cars fine, wish I had time like you, but there is nothing that makes that any more authentic or real.

 

[ScouserInExile]

My £0.02 worth:
The XP system is a decent idea, poorly implemented. One of ythe issues with the prvious GT titles was that it was too easy to get an excessively good car early on, negating all competition for large parts of the game. The XP system, in theory, means that these "unfair" cars are locked away until you are at a stage where they become "fair" again. It also means that there is a natural progression through the game - in previous titles, it was too easy to run the first couple of races repeatedly, build the credits to buy a much better car, then run some of the races designed to be towards the "end" of the game, then use the prize cars to blow away the "earlier" competitions.

There has also always been an element of grind - you've always had to run the first few races a good few times to be able to progress.

However, the grinding required to get towards the "end game" in GT5 seems more than a touch excessive. You should, realistically, be able to get to level 40 without having to repeat too many races. What the game needs, IMO, is more and more varied races / competitions around the 20's levels. Users wouldn't complain about having to run a 10-race series anywhere near as much as having to run the same race 10 times.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Read Enzo_Guy's post above yours. It's not hard - they got it right in GT4. They had enough races and good rewards for winning tournaments - which you could choose to sell for good money (like in every other GT). Having every event finished and having to replay the same race 20 times just to unlock ONE event is unprecedented in GT.

👍

BTW as we speak I'm at level 26 and still screwing around waiting for the GT-F1 to show up.

Stupid, stupid. and more stupid.

 

[DrJustice]

To add insult to injury, there's no XP for grinding licenses and special events for gold. That's such an incredibly bad design decision that it defies belief.

DJ
--

 

[RobGT81]

Im not interested in 'beating' a game before its trade in value goes down, I want to enjoy it for a few years, old school styley, the rest of you kids can run along and play call of warcraft