You may be upset that your wheel doesn't fully work with the game, but what Latte is saying is correct... Neither the G25 or G27 are officially licensed products, they are PC wheels and quite frankly, as abrasive as it may sound you have no right to expect/demand that it works fully as a PS3 wheel.
And what he said before (which is what I was addressbing before he quickly changed the subject to something similar but different) was that it was not said anywhere that the G27 would work with GT5. It is in fact said on the product page itself and the product box says works with PS3.
Now, the advantage the PS3 has over the X360 is that it works with a lot of regular USB devices. The X360 only works with licensed products as far as I know, which is why neither the Fanatecs nor Logitechs work with it, unless they were designed for it (I think there's a Fanatec that does). That's why the G27/25 work to a certain extent, the axes (wheel, pedals) work but not all the buttons.
This is an assumption from a point of ignornace. Did you know that the L3 and R3 buttons that don't work on the G27 in GT5 DID work in GT5P? Did you know that all the buttons on the G25 DO work in GT5 as well as the RA menu?
See what you are doing is arguing a phlilisophical standpoint but it's clear you don't actually understand the real world situation which always trump the philisophical and theoreticalones.
Your last statment is not entirely correct but also not entirely wrong. There was a firmware in which SONY blocked a few devices from working, but trust me, they didn't block even half of them. I have a MS Sidewinder Precision 2 I bought in 1999. The thing has a big "Designed for Windows 98" sign on its box and I plugged it in on my PS3. Some of the buttons work on the XMB and the one of the axes can be used to navigate the XMB. I recently purchased a Thrustmaster joystick for the PC that works on the Birds of Prey game, but the axes are all scrambled and you can't configure them.
Actually you will note that I said logitech wheels (in general) were brought up as not being banned becaues they had a standing license. Now I have to admit that I haven't dug up the source on that and maybe even that source is questionable, but that's where I am coming from and it doens't change in any way MrLatte's original request that someone show him somewhere that it's said that the G27 works with GT5 (which I did).
You spent your hard earned money on your wheel, I understand your frustration but I also believe you have wrong expectations, and that you're not discussing them in the right place.
I am frustrated less that it doesn't work but more as to why I believe it doesn't work. It's one thing not to play nice, it's another to play dirty directly, especially when I think PD are bold face lying about intent to fully support G27... I think the exact opposite is true.
As for the right place... I am not the one who brought it up and plenty have commmented in depth before me... not sure why it's suddenly such an issue to you other than that I am not defending PD in my stance.
Well Davelander as determind as you are to disrupt the thread....
I will point out that I was responding to others on the topic, yourself included, so if anyone was going to disrupt this thread, I think the blame falls back partially on yourself.
Okay the point being as you were aware and I will this time make it more clear. PD nor Logitech never have guranteed or state their products were designed to be fully compatible. As a licensced product you would be guranteed that but do Logitech state their wheel is Licensced for PS3 usage?
That's not what you said before and is a much broader and harder to debate subject. But yes, I would expect that a product that is shown to be compatible hardware and functions in other games on the same console would not loose function between successive iterations of a game like loosing the entire function of L3 and R3.
The G27 box does not state "PS3 Official Licensced Product" like the DF-GT box does so I presume then Logitech offer no gurantee it will fully work with all PS3 games?
I will point out again my growing distaste for the beaten wife syndrome the consumer base in general is taking in which it seems assumed that we have no rights or expectations unless specifically written out for us. What ever happened to reasonable assumption of functionality baring any specific contradiction from the seller?
I am truly amazed at the speed with which the industry has beaten the average consumer down from "EULAs are unreaonsable and shouldn't be allowed to over ride our rights as consumers" to "if they didn't PROMISE it to you implicity, you have no reaosn to want it".
If your angry because full support isnt their, then take your issue up with Logitech for advertising that the game is listed as working on their website and make a complaint to the advertising standards.
I did take bring it up with Logitech as well, but by the same logic it's something to be brought up with PD as they have claimed reasons for it being they way it is that appear pattently untrue and have attempted to garner good faith by claiming they want to fix it when it all likeliehood they have nerfed it.
Again, an attempt to deflect any responsibility from PD... very common lately...
If PD wanted to nerf the G25 or G27 then why wouldn't the nerf something that's absolutely critical to the game? Like the brake pedal, gas pedal ect? All of that actually works. The only thing that you can't do with the those two wheels is program the buttons. Yes that sucks but it by no means hurts the experience. You can still fully enjoy GT5 with either of those wheels. I know that I have a G25 and at no point have I had any issues playing with it.
Because they want to maintain good faith from the user base. It's one thing to say "oh we wish it worked better, maybe someday" and another to completely kill off it's functionality entirely. When leveraging your product ties, you want to do what you can to make your product relativey better (which in this case seems to include making the other products worse) while maintaining a good face with the market. Remember the heat MS took for killing off the Xbox when the 360 came around? Think that, but WAY more angrifying and blatent if PD just killed off the gas pedal on the G27.
PD maintains plausible deniability (although every reason offered up so far ha been full of holes) and they get the community to do their dirty work for them and turn on itself to defend their decision and attack our fellow consumers who are also getting the shaft. Quite brilliant really.
Instead of asking why didn't they do this, why not look at what they DID do and ask "is there anyway this ISN'T inentional nerfing?" I mean buttons that worked in GT5P now don't respond at all and the RA function simply won't come up even when mapped to buttons that DO work for other features. How do you explain that other than intentional?
Basically it would be VERY bad business to shut out a large chunk of the userbase who has shown they will pay $$$ for a peripheral, but if you can make them feel "hmmm, mines not as good as this other one, sure it's a lot of $$$ but at least it works all around so it's worth it" then that's golden.
It's all business and marketing, think about it, we have an official wheel coming out sans h shifter and looking to lack a few buttons, best way to make sure the competition that clocks in at roughly half the price with a solid product doesn't eat into your sales? Defeat a few non critical functions to ensure that no one says from day one "WTF? Why would I buy that $600 wheel when this $300 wheel literally does everything AND come with an hshifter?"
At the end of the day PD never promoted either of those wheels. They made it crystal clear that the official GT5 wheel was the DFGT, so if full support really was high on your list then you should've bought it as it was safe bet to be fully supported. They owe it to those customers as they promoted the product to them specifically. Just as they'll owe full support to the T500 customers as they're promoting the game and wheel to them.
It's not a question of promise. I never said it was... it's a question of shady busines practices and screwing us over... and I will add to boot, ingeniously making the fan base turn on itself to defend their own tactics.
Some of the arguments and attitudes around here remind me of war documentaries where you see soliders berrating their fellow soldiers for not making obviously horrible deicisions because "you weren't promised to come out of this alive and sometimes war require hard decisions".
It's pretty scary and sad how easily people are controlled sometimes to turn agains their fellows and work FOR the very entity which they should be unhappy with. I guess the term "sheeple" had to come from somewhere.
At least he uses the past to back his assumptions. About the future this is true with every product. We are not guarantied Kinect, Fanatec wheel, X360 wireless wheels and X360 controller will work on Xbox 720. No guarantied any wheel today will work on PS4 either.
Now he uses correlation and ignores causation. I use logic and actual undertanding of the underlying reaons why something happens, not just how they have always been.
There is a saying "past performance does not dictate future actions". If just looking at the past could tell you what would happen in the future, we would never have to pay for online gaming on top of our ISP charges, we would never have to pay for DLC and we would never have had a GT without a career mode (GTPSP).
