TOCA 3. you know. the ps2 version.

[Scaff]

You know I was thinking about this center rotation point thing again alot while I was in the shower, I don't know why, I just was......anyways, to understand let me give you this visualization....... Imagine yourself from a birds eye view looking straight down at a car as it comes to the turn, it's a right hand turn, the car will understeer and respond slowly to the steering inputs due to the front tires being overloaded by turning the wheel too sharply, as the car slows down and begins to grip it will neutralize the understeer untill the car beins to go sideways due to a literall case of oversteer, then the driver will balance the car out and make the mistake of letting the rears suddenly regain traction sending the car into a spin to the left coming to a stop in the other lane facing the opposite direction.

Now think of how the car was rotating during all of this. The car will rotate at the EXACT MIDDLE as the car is understeering and even when it gets to a complete neutral state, will still be rotating in the exact center betwen the front and rear wheels. HOWEVER, once the car begins to oversteer the point of rotation will quickly make it's way forward. A tiny bit loose will have the point of rotation 3/4 of the way between the front and rear wheels toward the front. This is where the car is cornering the best, just a shade loose, anyways, the point of rotation will quickly make it's way to the exact front of car between the front wheels and will stay their as the car is drifting, however once the mistake of overcorrecting has occoured the point of rotation quickly moves to the rear of the car untill the front wheels grab more than the rears again and the car starts sliding the other way, moving the point of rotation to the front of the car again untill it stops.....then, obviously there is no point anymore.

This has 100% to do with the position and direction of the momentum of the car and that has alot to do with the grip levels at each tire. Momentum is created by grip level indifferences and grip level indifferences are created by momentum. All of this is very dynamic.

GT4 Does this all perfectly, As does EPR, all of the codemasters games fail miserably, this is why they float, this is why they have glitches and unrealistic things happen in them.

I have to say that if you got this far just from thinking it out then kudos to you, some of the basic here are right, but I do have to correct a few areas.

First you have correctly Identified a commonly overlooked area of sims, which is that of rotation, so lets have a better look at exactly what is involved in rotation.

Now the following diagram shows the three axis of rotation that a car encounters.

Now the principal one we are interested in here is that of yaw (Z Axis) and this will always occur at the vertical line through the Centre of Gravity for the car. Now the centre of gravity of a car will vary depending on the individual car, and while it will move during load transfer, this movement will generally be minimal. The point of rotation does not move around to the degree you have described and certainly under and oversteer does not depend on the location of the point of rotation.


So how exactly does it relate to under, over and neutral steer?

Well first of all every car will have a natural desire to yaw when its direction is changed, and every corner will have a every corner will have a yaw angle which depends on the speed the corner is taken at and the radius of the corner. The yaw angle is the angle between the direction a car is pointing versus the direction it is travelling in, as shown in the left hand diagram below.

The yaw is determined in part by the slip angles of the tyres themselves, as shown in the right hand picture above.

The following section is taken from Skip Barber's book Going Faster and explains these states excellently.

Redefining Attitude
Up to now we defined understeer and oversteer in terms of which end of the car 'slides' first. While this is an OK conceptual way of describing the sensation it not really true. A car does not need to slide to exhibit understeer or oversteer. A tyre does not have to be at its cornering limit to encounter slip angles.

Even at low speeds and cornering loads, cars develop slip angles at the front and rear tyres. Consequently the car as a whole develops a yaw angle. At low loads the slip and yaw angles are small, but they're there. A more accurate way of defining a cars cornering attitude at both low speeds and high is to compare the slip angles of the front and rear tyres.

‘Going Faster’ then goes on to use this to describe different attitudes a car can take.

A 100 foot radius arc is used, with a Yaw of 8 degrees required to travel the arc.

Understeer
Front Slip Angle - 14 degrees
Rear Slip Angle - 6 degrees
Yaw - 4 degrees

The yaw of 4 degrees is lower than that of the yaw required to travel the arc and the car will push forward and wide.

Oversteer
Front Slip Angle - 10 degrees
Rear Slip Angle - 16 degrees
Yaw - 14 degrees

The yaw of 14 degrees is greater that that required to travel the arc and the car will take a line that is too tight. If the Rear Slip Angle increases the Yaw will increase dramatically and the car will over rotate (Power Oversteer), however if the fronts have also exceeded their Slip Angle then the car will push wide while over rotating (Power Understeer).

Neutral
Front Slip Angle - 10 degrees
Rear Slip Angle - 10 degrees
Yaw - 8 degrees

The yaw of the car matches the yaw required to travel the arc.

As the above examples show, understeer and oversteer are characteristics that occur at any speed and both with and without a loss of grip. This means when we are looking at changing a setting that would increase or reduce oversteer, it does not mean that grip has to be lost to feel the effect; just that the balance between the front and rear slip angles of the tyres will change.


Conclusion
Now the above piece shows the direct relationship between yaw and tyre slip angle, during this the point of rotation (yaw) does not significantly move at all, rather we can use the balance between the front and rear slip angles of the tyres to increase, reduce or maintain yaw. Now how this applies to drifting is discussed in Going Faster when over-rotation occurs and is corrected.

Correction
The first step is with the hands - dial in opposite lock, steering in the direction of that the rear end of the car is trying to go. This is the correction phase of skid recovery.


Settle the Rear
The second, almost simultaneous action should be to settle the rear of the car by transferring weight on to the rear tyres. You do this with throttle application - a little throttle application. A common mistake here would be to jump on the power to try and save the slide. if you did that you will have lost cornering traction at the rear by asking too much acceleration traction.

By Squeezing the power, applying 30% throttle or so, you move the load to the rear and cancel the engine braking effect of abruptly snapping off the brakes.


The rotation stops
The car begins to recover. The rotation around the centre slows, then stops from the steering wheel correction and throttle application. You are in the eye of the storm. The rotation has passed its peak. This is the pause phase, your cue to start taking out the opposite lock.


The Need for Recovery
Now the rotation starts back the other way, counterclockwise, reducing the car's overall yaw angle. If you don't take the steering out fast, you'll get caught with the car back at zero rotation, a lot of load on the right tyres and the steering wheel turned left. you will have saved the clockwise slide but got caught by the reaction of the rear rotating counterclockwise - you'll end up spinning back in the opposite direction.

This time you do it right and quickly get the wheel back to centre following the pause: you successfully dissipate the rear end's momentum back towards the right.

So what does GT4 and EPR get right that codies games get wrong? Well in my opinion its in the relationship between rotation and tyre slip angles, quite simply Codies games don't seem to both with the tyre side of things that much, relying on pure rotation.

Regards

Scaff

 

[rsmithdrift]

Wow dude. Yeah, I came up with that all in about a half hour while I was taking a shower. I was playing D1GP that night and then switched to TOCA 3 and then TOCA 2 and then EPR And I know from experience how GT4 is quite well, So I was trying to think how a real car rotates when cornering. And that's what I came up with.

I have to say that if you got this far just from thinking it out then kudos to you, some of the basic here are right, but I do have to correct a few areas.

First you have correctly Identified a commonly overlooked area of sims, which is that of rotation, so lets have a better look at exactly what is involved in rotation.

Now the following diagram shows the three axis of rotation that a car encounters.



Now the principal one we are interested in here is that of yaw (Z Axis) and this will always occur at the vertical line through the Centre of Gravity for the car. Now the centre of gravity of a car will vary depending on the individual car, and while it will move during load transfer, this movement will generally be minimal. The point of rotation does not move around to the degree you have described and certainly under and oversteer does not depend on the location of the point of rotation.

See, the thing I keep thinking is that the grip levels determine the point of rotation. The way I see it, when a tire has grip the road will try to pull it back. If their is an unbalance the end with the most grip will try to follow the end with the least grip. If the rears have the least grip the car will be loose because when you unsettle the car's path by turning the wheel, the road will grab the front's but not the rears, making the car rotate at the front of the car and get sideways and spin if you can't correct it. If the rears have the most grip the car will be stable because when you try to turn the end with the least grip is already leading and won't grab as hard as the rears that have grip. Obviously these are the opposite extremes representing maybe having oil on two tires (those two being the two fronts or the two rears) or having both the tires at one end of the car made of plastic like on a drift R/C car. lol. A good driver/good car won't run into these situations very often but will keep the car balanced, and the car will never rotate far from center. And perfect would be just toward the front of center as this would be a slightly loose car with "correct yaw" as you described below. Making the car handle good and stay relatively neutral.

Also the way I see it it's physically impossible for the car to rotate behind the center to corner. The only way this is possible is if you get loose and the car corrects by regaining rear grip and the fronts catching up to the rears. If you correct by using the steering alone it'll rotate around the front side of center still.

Sorry, hope that's not too confusing cause I just typed what I was thinking as I thought it. lol.

So how exactly does it relate to under, over and neutral steer?

Well first of all every car will have a natural desire to yaw when its direction is changed, and every corner will have a every corner will have a yaw angle which depends on the speed the corner is taken at and the radius of the corner. The yaw angle is the angle between the direction a car is pointing versus the direction it is travelling in, as shown in the left hand diagram below.



The yaw is determined in part by the slip angles of the tyres themselves, as shown in the right hand picture above.

The following section is taken from Skip Barber's book Going Faster and explains these states excellently.

Redefining Attitude
Up to now we defined understeer and oversteer in terms of which end of the car 'slides' first. While this is an OK conceptual way of describing the sensation it not really true. A car does not need to slide to exhibit understeer or oversteer. A tyre does not have to be at its cornering limit to encounter slip angles.

Even at low speeds and cornering loads, cars develop slip angles at the front and rear tyres. Consequently the car as a whole develops a yaw angle. At low loads the slip and yaw angles are small, but they're there. A more accurate way of defining a cars cornering attitude at both low speeds and high is to compare the slip angles of the front and rear tyres.

‘Going Faster’ then goes on to use this to describe different attitudes a car can take.

A 100 foot radius arc is used, with a Yaw of 8 degrees required to travel the arc.

Understeer
Front Slip Angle - 14 degrees
Rear Slip Angle - 6 degrees
Yaw - 4 degrees

The yaw of 4 degrees is lower than that of the yaw required to travel the arc and the car will push forward and wide.




Oversteer
Front Slip Angle - 10 degrees
Rear Slip Angle - 16 degrees
Yaw - 14 degrees

The yaw of 14 degrees is greater that that required to travel the arc and the car will take a line that is too tight. If the Rear Slip Angle increases the Yaw will increase dramatically and the car will over rotate (Power Oversteer), however if the fronts have also exceeded their Slip Angle then the car will push wide while over rotating (Power Understeer).




Neutral
Front Slip Angle - 10 degrees
Rear Slip Angle - 10 degrees
Yaw - 8 degrees

The yaw of the car matches the yaw required to travel the arc.



As the above examples show, understeer and oversteer are characteristics that occur at any speed and both with and without a loss of grip. This means when we are looking at changing a setting that would increase or reduce oversteer, it does not mean that grip has to be lost to feel the effect; just that the balance between the front and rear slip angles of the tyres will change.


Conclusion
Now the above piece shows the direct relationship between yaw and tyre slip angle, during this the point of rotation (yaw) does not significantly move at all, rather we can use the balance between the front and rear slip angles of the tyres to increase, reduce or maintain yaw. Now how this applies to drifting is discussed in Going Faster when over-rotation occurs and is corrected.



So what does GT4 and EPR get right that codies games get wrong? Well in my opinion its in the relationship between rotation and tyre slip angles, quite simply Codies games don't seem to both with the tyre side of things that much, relying on pure rotation.

Regards

Scaff

I need to find this book, that's pretty cool, about as cool as that Forced Induction book my friend has.

But I don't understand how they determined the amount of YAW in those examples. I know from being a videogame editor (NR2003 Season) what Yaw is, and how to use it in artificial inteligence, but to my knowledge, yaw is the slipangle of the car compaired to it's path, and the path is determined by it's speed and yaw. But they are saying that the path is determined by the yaw angle......... so how are they determining the yaw?? I guess they are they just leaving speed out of the equation and assuming you've got it (speed) constant and correct???

 

[Scaff]

See, the thing I keep thinking is that the grip levels determine the point of rotation. The way I see it, when a tire has grip the road will try to pull it back. If their is an unbalance the end with the most grip will try to follow the end with the least grip. If the rears have the least grip the car will be loose because when you unsettle the car's path by turning the wheel, the road will grab the front's but not the rears, making the car rotate at the front of the car and get sideways and spin if you can't correct it. If the rears have the most grip the car will be stable because when you try to turn the end with the least grip is already leading and won't grab as hard as the rears that have grip. Obviously these are the opposite extremes representing maybe having oil on two tires (those two being the two fronts or the two rears) or having both the tires at one end of the car made of plastic like on a drift R/C car. lol. A good driver/good car won't run into these situations very often but will keep the car balanced, and the car will never rotate far from center. And perfect would be just toward the front of center as this would be a slightly loose car with "correct yaw" as you described below. Making the car handle good and stay relatively neutral.

You are right that a firm link does exist between the tyres and yaw, but not in determining the location of rotation.

The location of rotation/yaw is through the cars CoG, its this location around which the car will try and rotate at any given moment in time. What the tyres slip angle will determine is the amount of rotation/yaw that will occur, as the diagrams in my last post illustrated. The speed or velocity of the rotation/yaw is determined by a number of factors, but principally vehicle speed and the relationship between a cars track length and wheelbase (as a rule of thumb the shorter and wider a car is the more it will want to rotate and the quicker it will want to rotate).

You can see this if you take a pen and stick a big blob of blu-tack at one end, then try and spin the pen around the light end, it will almost instantly move the point of rotation around the heavy end (around the CoG). It doesn't matter how slowly or quickly this rotation occurs, it always occurs around the CoG.

What makes vehicle rotational dynamics far more interesting is that we throw tyres into the mix, and these allow us (as the driver) to vary the grip levels at each end (or with enough skill at each corner) to control the rate of rotation of the car.

What this however means is that should the balance between front and rear grip not be equal the rotation may not match that needed to drive around a corner. Always keep in mind that understeer is under rotation or less yaw than needed and oversteer is over rotation or more yaw than is needed. Should the under-rotation be very extreme it could reduce the rotation/yaw to zero and the car will simply plough straight on, this is generally a quite benign handling trait and will not result in a spin. One the other hand over rotation is very tricky as once the yaw exceeds that required it can quickly get out of control and as inertia builds (particularly if the yaw angle increases rapidly) then a spin is almost certain to happen.

Also the way I see it it's physically impossible for the car to rotate behind the center to corner. The only way this is possible is if you get loose and the car corrects by regaining rear grip and the fronts catching up to the rears. If you correct by using the steering alone it'll rotate around the front side of center still.

What you need to understand is that the car is not rotating behind the centre, it always rotates around the CoG of the car, so it never tries to rotate behind the centre.

You also have to keep in mind that to try and rotate by steering alone is impossible, the car would have to be stationary for that to happen, and a stationary car would not rotate not matter how much steering you applied. A car in motion always has a velocity and as such the tyres almost always have a degree of slip (either percentage or angle), its also almost impossible to hold a car at an exact speed, rather its almost always accelerating or decelerating slightly.

Sorry, hope that's not too confusing cause I just typed what I was thinking as I thought it. lol.

Don’t worry I understand what you are saying OK, its just quite a tricky subject to get your head around.

I need to find this book, that's pretty cool, about as cool as that Forced Induction book my friend has.

Speed Matter – The Handbook of the Skip Barber Racing School

One of the best books on driving, racing and vehicle dynamics written, its put together in an easy to understand level and well worth getting.

But I don't understand how they determined the amount of YAW in those examples. I know from being a videogame editor (NR2003 Season) what Yaw is, and how to use it in artificial inteligence, but to my knowledge, yaw is the slipangle of the car compaired to it's path, and the path is determined by it's speed and yaw. But they are saying that the path is determined by the yaw angle......... so how are they determining the yaw?? I guess they are they just leaving speed out of the equation and assuming you've got it (speed) constant and correct???

Determining Yaw can be tricky, strictly speaking Yaw angle is defined as “The angle between the direction a car is pointing versus the direction it is travelling in”.

Yaw itself is determined by the relationship between the front and rear slip angles and these are determined by steering input and throttle/brake application. Speed itself is a factor, but only as far as helping to determine the slip angles that then determine yaw.

You can increase or decrease yaw at almost any speed, and a car can have a neutral, under or over steer balance at any speed and totally independent of any loss of grip.

Using the driving on ice example helps to illustrate this well, the speed of the car is generally low, but massive rotation can occur because have much lower tyre grip and its far easier to exceed the slip angle limit. Big rotation/yaw at low speed.


A lot on this subject is covered in one part of "The Physics of Racing" series, written by physicist and racer Brain Beckman

The following section is of interest in what we have been talking about, and also clearly mentions that an object will rotate about its centre of mass, referred to for a car as its centre of gravity.

Cornering is a change in the direction of motion of a car. In order to change the direction of motion, we must change the direction in which the car is pointing. To do that, we must rotate or yaw the car. However, the car will resist yawing because the various parts of the car will resist changing their states of motion. Let's say we are cornering to the right, hence yawing clockwise. The suspension parts and frame and cables and engine etc. etc. in the front part of the car will resist veering to the right off their prior straight-line course and the suspension parts and frame and differential and gas tank etc. etc. in the rear will resist veering to the left off their prior straight-line course. From this observation, we can 'package' the inertial resistance to yawing of any car into a convenient quantity, the PMI. What follows is a simplified, two dimensional analysis. The full, three-dimensional case is conceptually similar though more complicated mathematically.

It turns out that the general motion of any large object can be broken up into the motion of the centre of mass, treated as a small particle, and the rotation of the object about its centre of mass. This means that to do dynamical calculations that account for cornering, we must apply Newton's Second Law, F = ma, twice. First, we apply the law to all masses in the car taken as an aggregate with their positions measured with respect to a fixed point on the ground. Second, we apply the law individually to the massive parts of the car with their positions measured from the CM in the car while it moves.

While the calculations contained in the piece are a bit heavy, it is worth a read of the non-calculations part as it does give you a good understand of the reasons why a car will initially resist rotation, while it will continue to rotate once it starts and what causes certain cars to be more willing to rotate that others.

http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/13-Transients.html


Regards

Scaff

 

[Mick777]

I think you should consider giving ToCA3 another look.

GT4 is a brilliant game but there are a few things i cannot look past. One is the lack of power oversteer. Yes, inertial oversteer is very much possible but none of the cars will oversteer through power alone. The second one is that regardless of what wheel you use or what settings you have it set on, the game will not allow the car's wheels to turn beyond the useable range for the speed that you are currently doing. To demonstrate what i mean all you have to do is stop, turn full-lock, and accelerate. Watch the front wheels. Even though you are still holding full-lock with the steering wheel the car's front wheels will wind off angle. This is certainly not reality. Basically this is done to smooth over ham-fisted driving. For example, no matter what input you give with the wheel it will never allow you to mistakingly turn full-lock at 100mph.

ToCA3 does allow for power oversteer. And everything you do with the wheel is taken literally, as it is with real cars. If you turn full lock you can guarantee that the car's front wheels are at full lock.

Nose-heavy cars in ToCA3 do indeed feel like they pivot around a point towards the front of the car and they naturally understeer during steady state cornering, as they should.

Rear-heavy cars, like the Lotus 49, naturally oversteer. Though because the Lotus 49's rear tyres are wider than the front the car is more neutral handling than would be expected by pure CoG figures. With the power available, precious little effort is needed to break traction at the rears and cause oversteer.

Yes, Sim mode offers WAY too much traction but the Pro-Sim mode physics are more than sufficient. This drift in Pro-Sim was done simply with a brief moment of a little too much power (of course momentarily reducing the grip levels at the rear) then balancing counter-steer and throttle until the right moment to bring it out without ending up snapping back the other way.

And a video which, although it is Sim mode, shows plenty of slip angle and counter-steer correction.

http://md-dms.twbc.net/videos.php?id=76

 

[rsmithdrift]

^^^ Dude, I love ToCA 3, it's a fun game and yes, you can drift and use all the real techniques to do it, .......all games have their flaws. Shoot, I still like TOCA 2 and TOCA 3 is leaps and bounds more realistic and just as fun.

 

[Gen.]

I've always found it strange noone has made a full blown drift video in Toca

 

[Mick777]

There's an easy answer for that. The camera angles are pathetic. The gifdeo i made was the only corner that had a decent camera angle out of 15 tracks. I made one double apex drift in the short right-right section at Mondello only to find that the camera angle was rubbish.

 

[Scaff]

I think you should consider giving ToCA3 another look.

GT4 is a brilliant game but there are a few things i cannot look past. One is the lack of power oversteer. Yes, inertial oversteer is very much possible but none of the cars will oversteer through power alone. The second one is that regardless of what wheel you use or what settings you have it set on, the game will not allow the car's wheels to turn beyond the useable range for the speed that you are currently doing. To demonstrate what i mean all you have to do is stop, turn full-lock, and accelerate. Watch the front wheels. Even though you are still holding full-lock with the steering wheel the car's front wheels will wind off angle. This is certainly not reality. Basically this is done to smooth over ham-fisted driving. For example, no matter what input you give with the wheel it will never allow you to mistakingly turn full-lock at 100mph.

ToCA3 does allow for power oversteer. And everything you do with the wheel is taken literally, as it is with real cars. If you turn full lock you can guarantee that the car's front wheels are at full lock.

Nose-heavy cars in ToCA3 do indeed feel like they pivot around a point towards the front of the car and they naturally understeer during steady state cornering, as they should.

Rear-heavy cars, like the Lotus 49, naturally oversteer. Though because the Lotus 49's rear tyres are wider than the front the car is more neutral handling than would be expected by pure CoG figures. With the power available, precious little effort is needed to break traction at the rears and cause oversteer.

Yes, Sim mode offers WAY too much traction but the Pro-Sim mode physics are more than sufficient. This drift in Pro-Sim was done simply with a brief moment of a little too much power (of course momentarily reducing the grip levels at the rear) then balancing counter-steer and throttle until the right moment to bring it out without ending up snapping back the other way.

And a video which, although it is Sim mode, shows plenty of slip angle and counter-steer correction.

http://md-dms.twbc.net/videos.php?id=76

I still play TRD 2 and 3 on a regular basis (TRD 1 was horrible) and even have the original ToCA 1 and 2 from the PSX, so I'm not anti-ToCA.

The games are great fun and they do offer a wonderful mix of real world tracks and race cars, however even with pro-sim switched on everything is not as it should be.

Yes the cars do oversteer and yes they do rotate, and a TRD3 deals with this better than the previous versions, but the relationship between rotation and tyre slip is not done wonderfully in TRD3. Some of the cars are very well done, such as the Formula Fords, others such as the Clio's are not great (the FWD cars seem to suffer more than others).

Also track stuff is better than the rally stuff, while grip levels are too high on all of them, its the grip levels on dirt that are far to high. Richard Burns Rally hammers it into the ground here, but then I rate RBR as the best physics engine on the PS2.

TRD3's biggest flaw still remains in the rather floaty feel that the whole series has had, yes the tyres slip and the car rotates, but the two often don't feel as if they are connected.

BTW - Cars can and do power-oversteer in GT4, just not as easily as they should do, nor are they as easy to recover as they should be, Enthusia goes the other way.

What I do love TRD3 for is the damage model, which is excellent; the large grids and the real world tracks (even if they are out at times) and the AI.

I quite agree on the replay front, the camera angles do suck in a big way.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Mick777]

I have basically settled with a few favourites in ToCA3 (the cars i felt they did the best job with and are good to drive).

All Pro-Sim greats... The Lotus 49 tops my list but the GT Tuning cars (Koenig GT & GT-D and Gemballa) are great. The V8's are great but i wish that they were more sensitive to throttle input. You should not be able to hold it flat over the mountain at Bathurst. The little GT Lights are a blast too. Caterhams are great too, though i've never heard of one flipping purely by throwing it into a corner too hard (but this is easy to do in game for some strange reason). These are just the ones that spring to mind.

TRD1 was a joke. I never looked at ToCA2 purely because of how bad TRD1 was. I have ToCA3 because i won it by running the fastest lap with the demo that came with the PS2 mag, and i'm glad i have it. Recently some friends convinced me to have a look at ToCA2 and i bought it purely to drive the Mustangs and Cobras on Pro-Sim.

P.S. - Nice to hear that you guys do branch out too. If only all the games developers would work together; then we wouldn't be saying i want this from this game, but that from that game. I know it's never going to happen but a guy can dream.

 

[MasterGT]

Maybe some of you know the complete solution for this ToCA problem.

People who have a completed game or who have paid for the unlocking codes need to know how to transfer the ToCA game save to the PS3, in a usable format. Just re-entering the codes won't work because you need to match the 4-digit code generated when first starting a new game, that could be up to 10,000 tries.

1) The file is copy-protected, on the mem-card.
2) AR MAX Drive seems to always make copied files into .max files.

So, how can these players transfer the files so that the game can use it on their PS3?

Is there an .max uncompressor that can be used on the PC?
If so, can that help solve the dilemma?

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Christhedude]

👍

Pro sim handling all the way

Also make sure your story mode game is set to hard difficulty, on normall the ai are so slow I can beat them never going above 3/4 throttle......haha.

how can i change the difficulty grade in that game? i checked already under the option section, but cant see anything which says difficulty...??!!

 

[MasterGT]

💡 In your manual, read page 12.

Options/Driving - Turn on what you need.

When you set up an on-line room, you need to set handling the way you want, too.

Remember, though, the console versions (XBox & PS2) must have Pro-Sim handling turned on each time the game boots.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[MasterGT]

From what I understand, there are two ways to play ToCA 3 on a PS3.

1) Start from scratch. If you want to use codes to unlock content, buy them, even if you already have bought them once before.

2) If you have a game save that has not had the unlocking codes entered into it, then use the AR MAX Drive to copy the game save to the memory stick, then UNCRUSH that file to another memory card. Load the memory card in the mem-card adapter and copy the ToCA 3 game save onto your hard drive.

Note: If your game save has had CM's unlocking codes entered into it, you cannot copy the file with the MAX Drive.

I am still waiting for confirmation as to whether entering the free Honda code stops this copying process from working.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Christhedude]

💡 In your manual, read page 12.

Options/Driving - Turn on what you need.

When you set up an on-line room, you need to set handling the way you want, too.

Remember, though, the console versions (XBox & PS2) must have Pro-Sim handling turned on each time the game boots.

Cheers,

MasterGT

master gt,

under optiions-driving and can only mark-unmark the gravel traps-damaged and one more thing...

but u said i should change it to pro sim...??

i unmarked all the 3 options...so thats the max i can make the game difficult?

 

[MasterGT]

Options/Driving has a "Pro-Simulation" section.
One of the checkmarks is for handling.

You must turn Pro-Sim handling on each time you boot the game, if you want more difficulty.
If you don't, then you don't need to do anything. You can't make it Pro-Sim handling by a savable setting.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[socomplayer2]

This game makes up for gt4s lack of online and damage. The only thing i wish it has was the whole buying and tuning of cars that you owned.

 

[rsmithdrift]

👍

how can i change the difficulty grade in that game? i checked already under the option section, but cant see anything which says difficulty...??!!

If you're a good ways into the game, then I have bad news for you...

Difficulty is not under options, when you first start a world championship it'll ask you to select the difficulty level you want, choose hard for a good decently difficult race, or normal if you want to make them look bad or don't know what pedal does what.

Once you've selected, you can't change it. Meaning if you selected normal on accident, the only way to change it is to start the game over.

 

[MasterGT]

That's a good point about World tour, rsmithdrift, but he does have the choice in a few areas elsewhere in the game and on-line.

I just read a bit about your GT drifting.
What do you think about ToCA's abilities for drifting?

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[mwoodski]

ToCA drifting sucks balls. Fullstop.

 

[rsmithdrift]

That's a good point about World tour, rsmithdrift, but he does have the choice in a few areas elsewhere in the game and on-line.

I just read a bit about your GT drifting.
What do you think about ToCA's abilities for drifting?

Cheers,

MasterGT

The ability is their, but their's just something wrong with it.

TOCA 2 was AWESOME, I MEAN UN BELIEVABLE for drifting because of it's floating physics. You could drift anything, anywhere in that game.

ToCA 3 seems to have the physics alot more solid and the tires regain grip too quickly in ToCA 3, they fall off too quickly/harshly also. I think that's realistic though because the game simulates racing tires/slicks, not street tires, you can't drift on slicks, you'll either spin or regain grip very harshly. I think if the game replicated street car tires/sports car tires it'd be on Enthusia or LFS level for drifting. But that's not what we were given to work with, so that pretty much ends it.

I'll sum it up for you, you can drift pretty well in ToCA 3, but when I want to go drifting it's one of the LAST games I think about putting in. Just like GT4 for the same reasons, the reason everyone makes GT4 vids is because it's got a [false] reputation for being a realistic driving game. Toca has a rep for being a pro series racing game. Shoot, it says so right on the covers, and I quote: GT4: "The Real Driving Simulator", ToCA 3: "The Ultimate Racing Simulator". Driving relates to drifting, professional racing does not. Again, it's a lack of interest for drifting in ToCA 3.

 

[MasterGT]

I'm stuck at Enthusia's drifting section, so maybe I should pull out ToCA 2 for some practice.

Thanks for summing it up.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[MasterGT]

Players who have had both the Logitech Pro and G25 indicate that the Pro doesn't work well with ToCA 3 when compared to the G25.

Two very good GT4 players that I know who instantly got turned off by ToCA 3 have no similar complaints with the game when using the G25.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[AUFordFalconFPR]

ahh toca 3,i like running in the devlopment series in v8 supercars driving the great AU Falcon Racecars around All the local tracks.Bliss.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

Just got back into playing TOCA 3 for the 1st time in like over a year....and I'm having a bit of an issue trying to precisely configure the DFP:

Specifically..once you go into Options > Driving > Advanced

What are the 'end-results'...aka: Car Handling characteristics..... if you widen the 'saturation' all the way but leave 'dead-zone' at ZERO.

I've been tooling around in this area of the game now for over 30minutes and I just can't get it right! Either the 'dead-zone' is way to WIDE, or simply turning the wheel left/right becomes way to sensitive.

Is there some type of 'default' setting that provides a 'neautral' feedback by chance? Say setting 'saturation' to 'X' and then setting 'dead-zone' to "Y"??

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,



SimRaceDriver

 

[MasterGT]

The default wheel settings for the Pro cause people problems, from what I understand, but then I don't use a 900* wheel.

With my 200* DF wheel, I use a zero deadzone and saturation at 98%.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[GT_Jim]

Toca 3 SUCKS
A game with boat racing would be more realistic.
I'm very very disappointed...

 

[Turbo Lag]

Toca 3 SUCKS
A game with boat racing would be more realistic.
I'm very very disappointed...

Yeah, IMO toca 3 sucks .I bought this game like the day it came out(cause i loved and own toca 2) and then i returned the game in about 2 days of playing Only cause some races are REALLY hard but after you race it about 27 million times, you kill the competion for some reason

 

[mwoodski]

Did you try Prosim.....

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

well had a good few races with sierra tonight


and won by 3 laps round bathurst

would be intresting to get a mini race series going on with toca 3 online

and a random video i did today,5 lap race at the mountain

 

[FadeToBlack]

I didn't feel like looking through the whole thread to try and find this, but I have a question. I just got this game the other day and I've been playing World Tour mode. Well, I can't figure out how to select a different car when I go into a championship. Like, for example, if I go into the Japanese Works Cup, the only car it will let me drive is the NSX. Is this the way it's supposed to be? Probably a dumb question, but sometimes dumb questions need asked.

Thanks in advance.

BTW, this thread is the whole reason I bought this game. I actually had never tried any of the ToCA games and found this thread on here, read quite a bit about it, then bought it. So far, I love it. I suck at rallying, though.