Unstable braking...

9,038
United States
Murica
BasedAckbar
The update broke something with the tire model zero mile stock car won’t brake in a straight line. Did not behave this way before 1.20 was not fixed with 1.21.
Usually the car trails into the direction of the tires with more wear if wear is on, so if the left side tires have more wear then it will drift to the left. Another factor is wind direction which can make a car unsettled at times. They also changed up how the suspension and tires handle weight transfer and heat, so some tinkering of the set up is necessary again now.
 
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133
Hong Kong
Hong Kong
Alex Wilmot, you are wrong about those settings. I have tried everything and l have tried tuning the natural frequency and spring rates like you say and it does nothing to stop the swerving under braking.

My toe settings, as crazy as they look nullify the swerve under braking everytime, without any detriment to the car's handling in any other area. This is on the GT40 and Ferrari...

GT7's settings are messed up, and backwards for sure. They keep messing things up with every update too.

The game feels like it's been created by children who have been on the Dodgem's rides down at the fair for too long!

They don't have a clue what they're doing, the game is illegitimate and a joke!
 
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1,165
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
AWRacing17
Alex Wilmot, you are wrong about those settings. I have tried everything and l have tried tuning the natural frequency and spring rates like you say and it does nothing to stop the swerving under braking.

My toe settings, as crazy as they look nullify the swerve under braking everytime, without any detriment to the car's handling in any other area. This is on the GT40 and Ferrari...

GT7's settings are messed up, and backwards for sure. They keep messing things up with every update too.

The game feels like it's been created by children who have been on the Dodgem's rides down at the fair for too long!

They don't have a clue what they're doing, the game is illegitimate and a joke!
Sigh… oh well here’s a tune and a clip of said tune(could be better with upgraded brake discs, some aero too) to show you’re wrong, I have used real world techniques to tune this, nothing has been "backwards" as you claim(with zero evidence to support your claim I'll add)



What it really boils down to is that you don’t know what you’re doing with a tune or driving so it’s easier to say the game is at fault, the game isn’t related to the real world, the game is a joke blah blah, instead of trying to improve yourself, the issue seems to lie with you.
 
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196
Portugal
Alvalade
How do you know what is "too stiff" on a flaming computer game car?? Weight transfer in a REAL CAR happens no matter the stiffness of springs or dampers. And TBF ... to appreciate what actually happens is beyond your comprehension.
The settings on GT7 (or any console racer) has little connection or no connection to real suspension kinematics. Dicking around with suspension sliders on a car based video game is simply guess work and is no
more of a legitimised exploit to make your car faster if you hit the right values.

Gt7 is a simcade,you should not be giving advice based on real suspension theory where it does not apply or is anywhere accurately translated in-game. It's the same reason you can't simply fly a real plane just because you're good at Ace Combat.

And the finish this off, you had no intention to help the OP here, all you have done was come across condecendingly and gaslight him.


Again, the question is not about if vintage cars are more difficult to drive, the question is do we expect braking instability on vintage race cars?

The driver on the Gt40 video simply hit the brakes "firm" as he said in the video, no special technique needed there.

Here is a Daytona Coupe watkins glenn, at 1:35 mins he hits 128 mph and brakes hard, notice how smooth it is.



So teach us where the cause of the poor balance is? and what poor materials can be found on a Daytona coupe or Gt40?

You and Kaz know something us mere mortals do not...


Agreed

Pedrocor did answer you..., the original models worked like prototypes per say, it doenst need a deep investigation, im not a engineer but its the natural evolution of motorsports, the video you posted probably the car its not the same compared to the original version, when i say its not the same i meant, is the car using original brakes/suspension, are the tires with same specs compared to the 60s?

Anyway i gave a good tip, some old cars in GT if you put diferent tyres compounds in rear/front will improve the handling, i know that cause most of my team mates do classic races and the few races i did with classic cars they suggested me that to be competitive, i dont know the models and if in this particular case will help, last race i did in wich i used that trick was like 2 years ago..., i think in GT7 probably will work also its just a sugestion.
Simply cause nowdays im to busy and normally i avoid tunning..., cause it needs time and testing and i prefer to race in the few time i have.
The only game that i do some tweaks its in ACC cause the setups are not up to date and need some tweaks mostly cause of tires and brakes temperatures.
 
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47
Romania
Romania
So it took this long and some arguing to finally see what your settings are...

Well you're wrong, GT7 settings aren't reverse to real life,
Yes toe angle affects steering stability, but what you've got here is the rear end is soo stiff when you brake and the weight transfer moves forward the rear gets light, but now the rear is soo stiff the back end hops about hence why you're having oversteer and then having to control this by to putting toe out in the front and toe in at the rear to control it,

If you just showed your setup from the start we could of had a discussion on how you could just soften the rear, but you've solved only one issue at least
The game actually gets something the wrong way compared to real life. The coefficients indicating understeer vs oversteer behavior at low and high speed. The + and - are reversed compared to their real life meaning.
 
1,165
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
AWRacing17
The game actually gets something the wrong way compared to real life. The coefficients indicating understeer vs oversteer behavior at low and high speed. The + and - are reversed compared to their real life meaning.
1) how do you know the those coefficients are incorrect to real life?
2) the argument is around the suspension settings where the other two say GT7 is reversed to Real life where I say it it like real life(I don't see anyone running toe in on the front here which would be reverse like the claim of the other two)
 
1,101
United States
Tennessee
tnfedexman
I see it with the F40 over 200mph more than before. Coasting and intermitting breaking before a major turn to get speed down solves the problem for me.
 
2,766
coilerdh
no.no.
There is something different for sure since 1.20 , many of my cars get really unstable under braking(pull left/right randomly)
 
104
United States
United States
I'm noticing this all of a sudden now too as I'm practicing some laps for the Gr4 Manu Cup race @ Kyoto. Braking in the WRX Gr4 has all of a sudden become ridiculous. It almost immediately will lock the brakes and slide, even with ABS turned on and running RS tires.

It definitely was not like this before this latest update.
 
201
Belgium
Belgium
Today noticed some repeated (lap after lap) instability on the 2023 Nissan Z, in the braking zone before the first corner of Interlagos. No ABS, SH tyres, G29, time trial.
I like it. Feels more realistic.
 
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8
Sweden
Sweden
How do you know what is "too stiff" on a flaming computer game car?? Weight transfer in a REAL CAR happens no matter the stiffness of springs or dampers. And TBF ... to appreciate what actually happens is beyond your comprehension.
The settings on GT7 (or any console racer) has little connection or no connection to real suspension kinematics. Dicking around with suspension sliders on a car based video game is simply guess work and is no
more of a legitimised exploit to make your car faster if you hit the right values.

Gt7 is a simcade,you should not be giving advice based on real suspension theory where it does not apply or is anywhere accurately translated in-game. It's the same reason you can't simply fly a real plane just because you're good at Ace Combat.

And the finish this off, you had no intention to help the OP here, all you have done was come across condecendingly and gaslight him.


Again, the question is not about if vintage cars are more difficult to drive, the question is do we expect braking instability on vintage race cars?

The driver on the Gt40 video simply hit the brakes "firm" as he said in the video, no special technique needed there.

Here is a Daytona Coupe watkins glenn, at 1:35 mins he hits 128 mph and brakes hard, notice how smooth it is.



So teach us where the cause of the poor balance is? and what poor materials can be found on a Daytona coupe or Gt40?

You and Kaz know something us mere mortals do not...


Agreed

Wow. I’ve never seen a more obvious and extreme display of the Dunning-Kruger effect than what you’ve ’contributed’ to this thread.
It was entertaining though. Cheers.
 
301
Austria
Austria
The cars from the 60s where exactly known by their braking performance.
Also, they would do a lot of lift and coast to save fuel (a great race pace should be about 5 seconds slower than raw car pace, 10 seconds would be a good pace "Gurney developed a strategy (also adopted by co-driver A.J. Foyt) of backing completely off the throttle several hundred yards before the approach to the Mulsanne hairpin and virtually coasting into the braking area"), from GT40 to the next successful car at the endurance scene, the 917, there was a performance jump of about 8 seconds (5 if you consider the 7.0 liter Mark IV). As for brake specs, the Cobra and early versions of the GT40 used a very rudimentary solid brake disks and three piston calipers and on those days the wheels were pretty small, 15 inch on both cases, the brake disks had to be pretty small also.
On sprint races, the GT40s weren't as dominant as in endurance races, the Lola T70s and later the Mirage M1s gave them a run for their money.

Of course, nothing of this as to do to, prior to update, the braking was ok, now it isn't. My guess is that PD realized the handling of this old cars shouldn't be as easy as it was before.

Thank you that was really informative👍
 
84
England
England
When i was trying to fix the Aston DB3s that had becomeso ubstable i ended up having to set the braking sensitivity to the max which solved the issue so it might be worth giving it a go on unstable cars,also set the front toe angle to 20 to 30.
 
54
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Wow. I’ve never seen a more obvious and extreme display of the Dunning-Kruger effect than what you’ve ’contributed’ to this thread.
It was entertaining though. Cheers.
Says the person who only made 7 posts on here and decided to bring up a 4 month old thread...

Questioning if a Playstation video game has any connection to real-world car/suspension kinematics is not Dunning-Kruger, it's an excersize of rational and critical thinking.