Unstable braking...

[Paulyrichard]

...on Cobra Daytona Coupe, Gt40 Mark l and Cobra 427 since update 1.20.

These never weaved from side to side under braking before update, and no amount of adjustment in tuning settings seems to nullify it.

 

[TumeK5]

Considering it's these 60s cars, I'd say it's fully intentional. Handling of the Daytona Coupe sucks to begin with, so I guess they upped the ante!

 

[AlexWilmot]

...on Cobra Daytona Coupe, Gt40 Mark l and Cobra 427 since update 1.20.

These never weaved from side to side under braking before update, and no amount of adjustment in tuning settings seems to nullify it.

I mean a little more information would be useful like maybe a screenshot of your settings, perhaps some details on the changes you made or even a video of said braking,

Otherwise this whole thread is useless complaining yet again

 

[Paulyrichard]

I mean a little more information would be useful like maybe a screenshot of your settings, perhaps some details on the changes you made or even a video of said braking,

Otherwise this whole thread is useless complaining yet again

It's pointless doing that because i've literally changed everything. The cars are unstable no matter what.
I could be here all day posting up useless settings.

I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has experienced this. And if they haven't maybe post their settings, that would progressively be a better way.

 

[AlexWilmot]

It's pointless doing that because i've literally changed everything. The cars are unstable no matter what.
I could be here all day posting up useless settings.

I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has experienced this. And if they haven't maybe post their settings, that would progressively be a better way.

ok then, No I don't have unstable braking with these cars

 

[Saargasm]

Using Alpine 220 Tokyo grind with RS’s has the pulling/swerving on hard braking even when on dry line. Doesn’t have it with RM’s same scenario

 

[GTboyz]

Using Alpine 220 Tokyo grind with RS’s has the pulling/swerving on hard braking even when on dry line. Doesn’t have it with RM’s same scenario

Yeah, I had to tap the gas to stabilize it a bit.

 

[anh165]

...on Cobra Daytona Coupe, Gt40 Mark l and Cobra 427 since update 1.20.

These never weaved from side to side under braking before update, and no amount of adjustment in tuning settings seems to nullify it.

There seems to be some hard-coded handling behaviour on anything old and made in the USA where this is more prominant. I found out that on Daytona raceway and Circuit De Le Sarthe, I'd have to start braking a bit earlier and gently to begin (assuming you have a wheel & pedal set)

Some tracks have hidden uneven spots or bumps where you hit the brakes (i.e braking into turn 1 on Laguna Seca) it would consistently unsettle the car with braking unless you adjust your braking point or position the car different before braking.

 

[Paulyrichard]

ok then, No I don't have unstable braking with these cars

Thanks for that.

Ferrari 308 GTB has it too...

 

[AlexWilmot]

Thanks for that.

I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has experienced this.

Well you did ask

 

[KaiB]

I had and Opel Corsa from the 80s, above 100km/h if i press the brake to hard the car almost killed me couple times...

The instability have to do with old tech.., poor materials poor balance...

The basics of driving must be applied, only brake in a straight line be gentle, people are used to modern cars or old race cars..., in RL most of old road cars are a dead sentence if you dont have the notion and sensibility.

I think GT handling on road cars its fun, i like to race using race cars but my team its composed by more old people that love to drive old road and race cars...
While they are slower in race cars compared to me when using road and old cars i have to pratice a lot to be able tom compete with them.., just cause of all of those factors.

 

[anh165]

I had and Opel Corsa from the 80s, above 100km/h if i press the brake to hard the car almost killed me couple times...

The instability have to do with old tech.., poor materials poor balance...

Can you teach us what is so poor about the Daytona Coupe and GT40? These were successful racing cars from the 1960's...

 

[Paulyrichard]

Well you did ask

And a bit more of an answer, to say the least...
Maybe you could enlighten a few people here and on other posts about this problem with a tune for it.

 

[KaiB]

Can you teach us what is so poor about the Daytona Coupe and GT40? These were successful racing cars from the 1960's...

I cant teach you nothing in that regard cause i didnt tested that combo...

But its possible that have to do with tires..., some cars get more stable if you put diferent compounds in the front and rear. Try to mess with that putting Mediums(front) and Softs(rear) or the other way arround...

 

[MidnightRun85]

Can you teach us what is so poor about the Daytona Coupe and GT40? These were successful racing cars from the 1960's...

I guess, for a start, they were much harder to drive. They were all balanced out by lack of technical progression compared to this day and age, so pin-point handling accuracy and dependable braking systems weren't as proficient as they are these days. For sure they were the best cars in their day, but then if you jump in 1970 Porsche 911 today and drive it hard down a B road, a bog-standard brand new VW Polo will outdrive it. Basically, the fact these are swaying under heavy braking probably isn't unrealistic.

 

[anh165]

I guess, for a start, they were much harder to drive. They were all balanced out by lack of technical progression compared to this day and age, so pin-point handling accuracy and dependable braking systems weren't as proficient as they are these days. For sure they were the best cars in their day, but then if you jump in 1970 Porsche 911 today and drive it hard down a B road, a bog-standard brand new VW Polo will outdrive it. Basically, the fact these are swaying under heavy braking probably isn't unrealistic.

Things have moved on with cars but do you realise that racing cars in the 60's (and 50's) do have to brake HARD routinely in racing conditions right??

The discussion isn't about how difficult it is to drive a 'simulated' classic race car, but the blanket assumption that hard braking and loss of control & stability is normal and expected.

It is not, and it certainly has nothing to do with 'poor materials, poor balance'


Here's a demo of a GT40 hitting 170 MPH before braking ...

 

[AlexWilmot]

And a bit more of an answer, to say the least...
Maybe you could enlighten a few people here and on other posts about this problem with a tune for it.

Well I did ask you for what you had to see maybe you had a setting in the wrong place or not but hey I got:

It's pointless doing that because i've literally changed everything. The cars are unstable no matter what.
I could be here all day posting up useless settings.

I'm trying to figure out if anyone else has experienced this. And if they haven't maybe post their settings, that would progressively be a better way.

So would it be pointless then?
Maybe this entire thread is pointless because it seems like you didn't want a tune, and when someone else isn't experiencing brake issues like you then that's a problem too,

Is this thread just you looking for a circle jerk to complain again?

To enlighten you, guess that you could Increase Front Natural Frequency to counter any oversteer under braking but then again I have no idea what you have it set up as since you won't share your current tune.

 

[anh165]

I cant teach you nothing in that regard cause i didnt tested that combo...

But its possible that have to do with tires..., some cars get more stable if you put diferent compounds in the front and rear. Try to mess with that putting Mediums(front) and Softs(rear) or the other way arround...

That doesn't sound very good...

 

[KaiB]

Things have moved on with cars but do you realise that racing cars in the 60's (and 50's) do have to brake HARD routinely in racing conditions right??

The discussion isn't about how difficult it is to drive a 'simulated' classic race car, but the blanket assumption that hard braking and loss of control & stability is normal and expected.

It is not, and it certainly has nothing to do with 'poor materials, poor balance'


Here's a demo of a GT40 hitting 170 MPH before braking ...

Your assuming all people have the skills to drive those Cars. I recommend you to search on YouTube, search for Leclerc driving the old F1 Ferrari, he is a modern F1 pilot and driving the old car he seems like a Rookie.., he cant put the traction on the floor.., and imagine that, he even Crash in Mónaco while braking.
You can then go and check how old drivers could handle those old tech beasts.
Dowforce was not like today.., and all other factors

That doesn't sound very good...

Its doesnt need to sound.., just feels, some Cars in GT handle better that way, some old cars in GT work like that.

 

[bigmull]

...on Cobra Daytona Coupe, Gt40 Mark l and Cobra 427 since update 1.20.

These never weaved from side to side under braking before update, and no amount of adjustment in tuning settings seems to nullify it.

I also got this post update. preupdate i had all but eliminated it but then they cocked it up withe update,so i set to work again.I dialled back the natural frequency settings and also the Camber.It would help to see your settings sheet.As you can see in the preupdate video,hard braking there is virtually no weaving.

In the following vid,it shows post update braking after fiddling with settings.The car is the DB3s on RH.

 

[Paulyrichard]

I've sorted it! Hah!!

I also got this post update. preupdate i had all but eliminated it but then they cocked it up withe update,so i set to work again.I dialled back the natural frequency settings and also the Camber.It would help to see your settings sheet.As you can see in the preupdate video,hard braking there is virtually no weaving.

In the following vid,it shows post update braking after fiddling with settings.The car is the DB3s on RH.

I messed around with toe settings. I will post up my settings now that l found an answer to the problem.

 

[bigmull]

I messed around with toe settings. I will post up my settings now that l found an answer to the problem.

Interesting,i havent touched the Toe settings at all,might have a look into it.You have to brake really early and hard in the DB3s as although it has drilled discs its only got bog standard brake pads.

 

[Paulyrichard]

Interesting,i havent touched the Toe settings at all,might have a look into it.You have to brake really early and hard in the DB3s as although it has drilled discs its only got bog standard brake pads.

I finally remembered reading somewhere from a long time ago about toe settings being a cause to the problem.
I then thiught about how some GT7 settings seem to be reversed compared to real. Especially the toe settings...

As you can see they're nuts, but then so is GT7 and have done the job without any other ill effect to the car's handling.

 

[F30clubman]

I tried some of these cars on Barcelona (maybe wrong track, too smooth?) but felt nothing or very little (Countach LP 400) unstability. With a G29 wheel and no ABS. Could it be you are (were) experiencing this with the controller or ABS?

 

[AlexWilmot]

I finally remembered reading somewhere from a long time ago about toe settings being a cause to the problem.
I then thiught about how some GT7 settings seem to be reversed compared to real. Especially the toe settings...

As you can see they're nuts, but then so is GT7 and have done the job without any other ill effect to the car's handling.

So it took this long and some arguing to finally see what your settings are...

Well you're wrong, GT7 settings aren't reverse to real life,
Yes toe angle affects steering stability, but what you've got here is the rear end is soo stiff when you brake and the weight transfer moves forward the rear gets light, but now the rear is soo stiff the back end hops about hence why you're having oversteer and then having to control this by to putting toe out in the front and toe in at the rear to control it,

If you just showed your setup from the start we could of had a discussion on how you could just soften the rear, but you've solved only one issue at least

 

[pedrocor]

Can you teach us what is so poor about the Daytona Coupe and GT40? These were successful racing cars from the 1960's...

The cars from the 60s where exactly known by their braking performance.
Also, they would do a lot of lift and coast to save fuel (a great race pace should be about 5 seconds slower than raw car pace, 10 seconds would be a good pace "Gurney developed a strategy (also adopted by co-driver A.J. Foyt) of backing completely off the throttle several hundred yards before the approach to the Mulsanne hairpin and virtually coasting into the braking area"), from GT40 to the next successful car at the endurance scene, the 917, there was a performance jump of about 8 seconds (5 if you consider the 7.0 liter Mark IV). As for brake specs, the Cobra and early versions of the GT40 used a very rudimentary solid brake disks and three piston calipers and on those days the wheels were pretty small, 15 inch on both cases, the brake disks had to be pretty small also.
On sprint races, the GT40s weren't as dominant as in endurance races, the Lola T70s and later the Mirage M1s gave them a run for their money.

Of course, nothing of this as to do to, prior to update, the braking was ok, now it isn't. My guess is that PD realized the handling of this old cars shouldn't be as easy as it was before.

 

[AlexWilmot]

So I went out stock settings, just look at how unstable these cars are...

Spoiler: Cobra 427

Run 1


Run 2

Spoiler: DB3S

Spoiler: 308 GTB

Just imagine how good these cars would be with A) a proper setup and B) Racing tyres

I'd refer you to my post here so you could try make the right adjustments to your car to improve its setup/tune, which btw comes from what you'd do to a car in the real world

 

[Greasyfatman]

I cant teach you nothing in that regard cause i didnt tested that combo...

But its possible that have to do with tires..., some cars get more stable if you put diferent compounds in the front and rear. Try to mess with that putting Mediums(front) and Softs(rear) or the other way arround...

The update broke something with the tire model zero mile stock car won’t brake in a straight line. Did not behave this way before 1.20 was not fixed with 1.21.

 

[anh165]

So it took this long and some arguing to finally see what your settings are...

Well you're wrong, GT7 settings aren't reverse to real life,
Yes toe angle affects steering stability, but what you've got here is the rear end is soo stiff when you brake and the weight transfer moves forward the rear gets light, but now the rear is soo stiff the back end hops about hence why you're having oversteer and then having to control this by to putting toe out in the front and toe in at the rear to control it,

If you just showed your setup from the start we could of had a discussion on how you could just soften the rear, but you've solved only one issue at least

How do you know what is "too stiff" on a flaming computer game car?? Weight transfer in a REAL CAR happens no matter the stiffness of springs or dampers. And TBF ... to appreciate what actually happens is beyond your comprehension.
The settings on GT7 (or any console racer) has little connection or no connection to real suspension kinematics. Dicking around with suspension sliders on a car based video game is simply guess work and is no
more of a legitimised exploit to make your car faster if you hit the right values.

Gt7 is a simcade,you should not be giving advice based on real suspension theory where it does not apply or is anywhere accurately translated in-game. It's the same reason you can't simply fly a real plane just because you're good at Ace Combat.

And the finish this off, you had no intention to help the OP here, all you have done was come across condecendingly and gaslight him.

Your assuming all people have the skills to drive those Cars. I recommend you to search on YouTube, search for Leclerc driving the old F1 Ferrari, he is a modern F1 pilot and driving the old car he seems like a Rookie.., he cant put the traction on the floor.., and imagine that, he even Crash in Mónaco while braking.
You can then go and check how old drivers could handle those old tech beasts.
Dowforce was not like today.., and all other factors

Again, the question is not about if vintage cars are more difficult to drive, the question is do we expect braking instability on vintage race cars?

The driver on the Gt40 video simply hit the brakes "firm" as he said in the video, no special technique needed there.

Here is a Daytona Coupe watkins glenn, at 1:35 mins he hits 128 mph and brakes hard, notice how smooth it is.



So teach us where the cause of the poor balance is? and what poor materials can be found on a Daytona coupe or Gt40?

You and Kaz know something us mere mortals do not...

The cars from the 60s where exactly known by their braking performance.
Also, they would do a lot of lift and coast to save fuel (a great race pace should be about 5 seconds slower than raw car pace, 10 seconds would be a good pace "Gurney developed a strategy (also adopted by co-driver A.J. Foyt) of backing completely off the throttle several hundred yards before the approach to the Mulsanne hairpin and virtually coasting into the braking area"), from GT40 to the next successful car at the endurance scene, the 917, there was a performance jump of about 8 seconds (5 if you consider the 7.0 liter Mark IV). As for brake specs, the Cobra and early versions of the GT40 used a very rudimentary solid brake disks and three piston calipers and on those days the wheels were pretty small, 15 inch on both cases, the brake disks had to be pretty small also.
On sprint races, the GT40s weren't as dominant as in endurance races, the Lola T70s and later the Mirage M1s gave them a run for their money.

Of course, nothing of this as to do to, prior to update, the braking was ok, now it isn't. My guess is that PD realized the handling of this old cars shouldn't be as easy as it was before.

Agreed

 

[AlexWilmot]

How do you know what is "too stiff" on a flaming computer game car?? Weight transfer in a REAL CAR happens no matter the stiffness of springs or dampers. And TBF ... to appreciate what actually happens is beyond your comprehension.
The settings on GT7 (or any console racer) has little connection or no connection to real suspension kinematics. Dicking around with suspension sliders on a car based video game is simply guess work and is no
more of a legitimised exploit to make your car faster if you hit the right values.

Gt7 is a simcade,you should not be giving advice based on real suspension theory where it does not apply or is anywhere accurately translated in-game. It's the same reason you can't simply fly a real plane just because you're good at Ace Combat.

And the finish this off, you had no intention to help the OP here, all you have done was come across condecendingly and gaslight him.

How do I know? Well rear anti roll bar is set to 10 for starters, the most stiff setting you can have, natural frequency which is spring stiffness is set to 3.0 which is very stiff,

As for the rest of your post, clearly again you don’t know a thing about tuning, dicking around with sliders… you do know there’s basic engineering knowledge you could read up that is applicable here and will actually correlate to the game despite your belief that this can’t happen on the hardware,
You only think it’s guess work because you don’t know what you’re doing but your ego is too big to accept this.

To the OP I tried to be helpful to see what the original settings were which OP didn’t want to provide,

Again you’re out of your depth, with the comments you made on this site it’s clear you are not willing to learn and only here to **** post about gt7 regardless of the evidence brought forward.

“to appreciate what actually happens is beyond your comprehension” yet I’m the condescending one? Ok mate I think you need a break from the internet