Update sucks

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GT_Fanatic
The true fact of the matter is that PD are pandering to the masses and turning GT5 into an arcadey style of driving, instead of making it what they purport it to be "the real driving simulator".

EDIT: Put racing slicks on even the most average of cars in GT5p, and it will take chicanes like it is welded to the tarmac. Tell me thats realistic...
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What an ignorant statement.

Put any R compound tires on any sub 500bhp car and it will GLUE to the road! It is realistic! If I put Bridgestone F1 tires Super Soft which basically are R3, you wouldn't think your car would glue to the road? Until PD implements heat cycles, it WILL!

The true opinion is that you know close to nothing about tires and physics related to them.

Rant: Why the hell would you put R compound tires on a street car in the first place? You're your own problem!

TIRE SELECTION

PD gives you S3 tires as default, let's see what S3 tires are.
The following tire is a BFG R1 DOT approved tire, basically cut slicks:

june2008054.jpg



Now go check the tires on your dad's car and tell me it's similar.
 
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GT_Fanatic
EDIT: Put racing slicks on even the most average of cars in GT5p, and it will take chicanes like it is welded to the tarmac. Tell me thats realistic...
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Thats realistic. Obviously you have never driven on full race slicks, or probably any R-comp tire for that matter.
 
JAGUAR1977
On the PC very little came close to the difficulty of the F40 on N tyres, possibly the '55 Mercedes F1 car or '85 Turbo F1 cars, GTR2 cars by comparison were an arcade delight!

Are we seriously saying a modern road car should be as difficult to drive as those mentioned above?
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I remember when we had Suzuka 600 restricted to S1 tires I drove the F40 there online. It was my first race at Suzuka in the F40, ever.

The setup I was running on the car was something I cooked up in probably 5 laps of practice at Fuji months ago. So with more tuning I'm sure I could increase the grip.

I tuned the pp for the race and off I went. No assists except for ABS at 1, in car view and no racing line.

In 4 races I spun just once, exiting the final chicane, most likely because of RBE.

I hate to say it, but in many ways the car was easy to drive. In fact I was about to win a race in the Ferrari F40 in a 10 car field @ S1 Suzuka 600 before host quit when I was on the back stretch.

The only thing that bothered me was the "on ice" feeling that driving the Ferrari F40, Ford GT and certain other cars gave you around lazy medium speed bends. This was not a problem with the tires, as even on R1 or better tires at other tracks the Ferrari F40 and Ford GT behaved the same.

The grip levels of the tires were fine, it was the physics of some mid engine and some RWD "drifting" cars like the RX-7 through medium speed corners that bothered me. As I said just fitting softer tires didn't fix the problem. The cars themselves were not balanced. Tuning the suspension helped this problem but never solved it.

However it was still controlable, and not impossible. It just needed tweaking, not the overhaul they gave it.

Also, I don't think slapping slick racing tires on a monster vehicle should suddenly make it driveable and stuck to the road. These are super cars. The tuned cars have downforce levels of 20/35, when in GT5 the prototypes will have downforce levels of 100/120 if previous GT games are anything to go off of.

So if a tuned road car is glued through the corners, what is a purpose built racecar with 5 times the downforce of the tuned cars going to handle like in GT5? Maybe so much grip you can drive through the grass?
 
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You're mixing up the issues here, again. The discussion was about tires, which this update is about, not downforce.

There are obviously flaws with the downforce/aerodynamics and I'm sure it'll be apart of further updates but for now you cannot bring this as an argument. F1 have the highest downforce in the game, you can get an idea from that, the draft online is absurd, it is obviously flawed but it cannot make its way into road car TIRE discussions as it's close to irelevant.

The grip levels of the tires were NOT fine. It was absurd to have the "on ice" feeling while equipping your road supercar with R compound tires. Refer to my earlier post, which you happily overlooked it seems?

Drive the GT with N3, you'll get that similar "on ice" feeling except it is in no way exagerated like it was in pre-update.

You simply got used to a game that was WAY off reality in terms of grip levels and now that you're actually with somewhat proper tyre physics, you're whinning.
 
I dont know if ths has been said yet or not but I want to throw this out there and get some feedback...

Does anyone think that weather effects may have been implemented in this latest update. I know there are no choices for wet races but maybe the foundation is in place. This sudden grip improvement may be partly because all the races are taking place on hot, clear, bright, sunny days and this fact is now having an effect on the tires?.

The fall update may not give us new tracks, but instead let us race the current tracks in the rain.
 
:dopey:
JAGUAR1977
Put racing slicks on any roadcar and it will be literally glued to the track, so much so you will have difficulty losing traction.

Have you ever seen the program Motorsport Ranch (lots of the drivers also play GT and Sims btw), a good driver in a Mini Cooper will lap 5+ seconds quicker than someone in a 911, Viper etc. on stock tyres, the difference is that huge. In fact the biggest complaint amongst drivers who are new to slicks on the show is they are not yet experienced/brave enough to push the tyres to their limits.

Edit:- In fact I'd recommend watching Motorsport Ranch to all (on Rush HD in the UK), they go into great detail regarding tyre and car set-up, it's a pure car against the clock challenge, with a staggered start based on qualifying laps. Because such diverse grids are so unusual, I'll challenge anyone not to be amazed at how a quickly a slick shod Mini Cooper chases down stock supercars, or the amazing lap times a track prepared Lotus Elise can set with a few simple tyre and suspension changes.
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I'm not going to get into this kind of debate again, because it just ended up in a flame war. I own a modded S2000 that stomps all manor of cars. I have a relative that makes he's money from modding cars and racing them. I have video footage of a modded Subaru WRX destroying a Bugatti Veyron from a rolling start. What the discussion is, is how the tyre physics in GT5p have been made too grippy.

EDIT: @ div is back. Showing a picture of a tyre means nothing. The ignorance is on you. now going and ask your dad if he can take my S2000. :dopey:
 
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Why does it mean nothing when I clearly described which tire this is, manufacturer, model, DOT approved?
You showing us that you don't know what it is is clearly a pretty solid argument in favor of your ignorance.

GT_Fanatic
EDIT: @ div is back. Showing a picture of a tyre means nothing. The ignorance is on you. now going and ask your dad if he can take my S2000. :dopey:
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What have you come up with that was relevant to the discussion other than your childish bragging of you owning a S2000 and that you have friends who have friends who have really super duper cool cars? Presenting Ze true fact which is one big glorified wanker opinion.

Yea, anything else?

GT_Fanatic
The true fact of the matter is that PD are pandering to the masses and turning GT5 into an arcadey style of driving, instead of making it what they purport it to be "the real driving simulator".
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Div is back
Why does it mean nothing when I clearly described which tire this is, manufacturer, model, DOT approved?
You showing us that you don't know what it is is clearly a pretty solid argument in favor of your ignorance.





What have you come up with that was relevant to the discussion other than your childish bragging of you owning a S2000 and that you have friends who have friends who have really super duper cool cars? Presenting Ze true fact which is one big glorified wanker opinion.

Yea, anything else?
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I'm no longer going to waste my time with a fool like you, as you have to resort to offensive language because you are incapable of replying in a civil manner, simply because you do not have the intelect to do so. EPIC FAIL on your behalf. :dopey:
 
Yes, real epic fail for you to steer away from the initial discussion which was civil until you stepped in and felt the need to brag, how brilliant. The fact that you showed no response to the clear facts that I stated about tires and preferred to overpower any fact pointed with dubious claims of "I know this and this guy". Again, brilliant proof of intelect on your part.

To get back on topic, I don't think the weather changing effects have been put in, I believe it is strictly a tire update.
 
bobzed
very nice vid 👍
btw did you tell the driver to keep only 1/2 of the throttle in turns?
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No, all I did was tell her not to bother trying to win the race :-)

Now, obviously, as I mentioned in the video, she did play a little GT4 (using the DFP however, not the G25). But not much, and she wasn't great except in very slow / low powered cars. I have to admit I was very proud when she started feathering the throttle all on her own. She was even getting a little counter-steering action going there. I think I'll get her into Autocross as soon as she's old enough.

But all of that aside. Obviously you can't call GT5P a SIM anymore, because there is simply no way any child could get into a real Ford GT, and, having never driven a real car suddenly enter a bend at over 140 miles per hour and survive the experience. This is clear proof that the new physics absolutely can't be realistic. This is clear proof that this can no longer be considered a SIM.
 
I think people need to stop using this "epic fail" term on these forums, it just looks pathetic and extremely cocky.

I really wish I could play more so I could have some input on this discussion. From the short amount of time I played I didn't like the update. On the other hand I was also one of the ones that said the game lacked the amount of grip that needed to be there. Although in the end my opinion doesn't mean jack. I've never raced a car on a track and most of my driving experience comes from gravel roads.
 
panjandrum
No, all I did was tell her not to bother trying to win the race :-)

Now, obviously, as I mentioned in the video, she did play a little GT4 (using the DFP however, not the G25). But not much, and she wasn't great except in very slow / low powered cars. I have to admit I was very proud when she started feathering the throttle all on her own. She was even getting a little counter-steering action going there. I think I'll get her into Autocross as soon as she's old enough.

But all of that aside. Obviously you can't call GT5P a SIM anymore, because there is simply no way any child could get into a real Ford GT, and, having never driven a real car suddenly enter a bend at over 140 miles per hour and survive the experience. This is clear proof that the new physics absolutely can't be realistic. This is clear proof that this can no longer be considered a SIM.
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Question for you.

Could she do it BEFORE the update?
I'd bet yes, because your point is not about tire physic, it's about the fear factor, which she cannot have while sitting on a comfortable couch while her dad looks over her and she's holding a plastic steering wheel.
 
Div is back
In GT5P pre-update you could NEVER pull a drift like Clarkson is right now, and I mean NO ONE could. The snap oversteer was WAY too exaggerated. Now it's actually driveable, like ANY car should be, the oversteer is controllable while you can easily drop it with too much angle on your drift

To Earth ad Panja:

That second video on HSR with the slower cars prooves one point, and you all seem to have missed it. The AI will run in STD physics with S3 tires no matter what you pick. What's your point? This test is obviously rigged and you've just lost a ton of credibility. Using your daughter to proove a point over the internet is to be quite honest, very ridiculous.
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Well, I've seen you out there on the track a lot and I'm sorry you feel this way. I certainly agree with you about the snap oversteer being somewhat off on the Ford GT before the update. I'm not staying everything was perfect before. There were things that certainly needed work.

What myself, and Earth, and drama-Kyd and some others here are saying is that the reality of the physics has been reduced dramatically. In essence, we're saying that this is no longer a SIM, but just a GAME. Which is a real shame.

I don't know how you would consider that test rigged though. She wasn't out the win the race or even turn a fast time. My only point was that it would be absolutely impossible for her to do, in real life, what she just did in GT5P: Hop into a Ford GT and drive it like that. Remember, even though she did have some GT4 experience, it was quite limited, and this was her first time driving GT5P or the Ford GT. Since a SIM is supposed to simulate real life, GT5P obviously isn't doing a good job.

It is doubly a shame because before the update they had the best of both worlds: Standard Physics for those wanting a game, and Pro for those wanting a SIM.

But no, it wasn't perfect. It was just much better than it is now.
 
Come on guys, this thread will be locked if you keep attacking each other. There's no need to call people epic fails. This should be a civilized discussion, not a war zone.

@Div - the picture of the tire is a good point. Soft-compound sports tires are essentially slicks, and true R-compound slicks are like glue. Both offer high levels of grip, and the tire physics update simply made the tire types more true-to-reality. People have noticed that tires now wear down in races, so perhaps they heat up more quickly and have more grip. It's just a suggestion, but it may be why the tires are more grippy now.
 
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using what tyres......and in what mode of simulation.......??????lol

PS If I cant beat you, I'll try and find a 12 yo girl to do it!!!!
 
New update in terms of physics is great.

Period.

Now go and watch more dash-youtube videos of real cars on N and S tyres to see what "level of grip" really means.

No more ice-skaitng is a greatest sigle achivement of this update - mission accomplished, thank you. And now go back and try to drive F40 on N2 on Eiger, NSX-R on S2 on Suzuka or BMW M3 on N3 anywhere and then come back to discuss futhrer about simulation.

Polyphony did a great job - as always - and all this nonsense is just nonsense. And sorry for sunding so harsh :)
 
After noticing a slight difference with the stock Ford Gt (N3 tires), I decided to check the quick tune and noticed something strange. The rear downforce was set to 20 and the front was set to 0.

So I decided to get the GT LM (N3) and put the downforce in favor of the rear by 20 points. The GT LM became easier to drive due to offsetting the downforce balance by giving the rear at least 20 more downforce points than the front. The difference really becomes apparent in 3rd gear.

I can not duplicate the exact settings of the stock car but it is close enough. Now if you even out the front/rear downforce than the GT LM (N3) goes back to being exceedingly difficult to drive especially with no assists or ABS. I always drive with the dualshock 3.:)
 
amar212
New update in terms of physics is great.

Period.

Now go and watch more dash-youtube videos of real cars on N and S tyres to see what "level of grip" really means.

No more ice-skaitng is a greatest sigle achivement of this update - mission accomplished, thank you. And now go back and try to drive F40 on N2 on Eiger, NSX-R on S2 on Suzuka or BMW M3 on N3 anywhere and then come back to discuss futhrer about simulation.

Polyphony did a great job - as always - and all this nonsense is just nonsense. And sorry for sunding so harsh :)
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Get your butt on Suzuka now and we'll see what the real score is. ;)
 
panjandrum
What myself, and Earth, and drama-Kyd and some others here are saying is that the reality of the physics has been reduced dramatically. In essence, we're saying that this is no longer a SIM, but just a GAME. Which is a real shame.
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Thats exactly where you are wrong, how can a more realistic tyre grip, turn a Sim into a game?
Oh wait... that's not possible!!! You also fail to deliver any proofs for your claims. Its okay with me if you say you liked it more pre-update,well your opinion fine. But calling it unrealistic i.e. not a Sim no more is a bummer to say the least!
I give you one proof for why its more realistic now 👍
If cars( even low powered) in RL would handle like they did in GT5p, everyone trying would be killed rather soon because the car wasn't controllable for more than a few seconds .
Driving cars would be strictly prohibited by law in this case! ( if the pre-update handling would ve been any realistic...)
But you guys don't get it, i know.
 
H20HYBRID_GT
If cars( even low powered) in RL would handle like they did in GT5p, everyone trying would be killed rather soon because the car wasn't controllable for more than a few seconds .
Driving cars would be strictly prohibited by law in this case! ( if the pre-update handling would ve been any realistic...)
But you guys don't get it, i know.
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👍

Signed. And also the main logic behind those youtube videos I've posted yesterday.
 
alright for the youngins on this forum that are complaining about gt5p. If u dont like it maybe u should try hard 'drivin or race 'drivin from the arcade days and u can see how far we've come. You gotta appreciate what these programmers have put there time into.
 

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