Vanquish vs. Viper

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Originally posted by BadBatsuMaru
Where are you getting that figure? If you can get 700 HP for less than $2000, please tell me why the link you posted is for a $3700 blower upgrade that puts out 616 HP.

You're so full of shït. That supercharger costs $3699, plus you have to get the $139 Cobra Cool Air Kit, and then you can't run the car on regular gas anymore! To get 616 HP, you need to run 20 PSI boost, but even 92 Octane Premium isn't good enough if you turn the boost up past 15 PSI! Go read the site's FAQ!

And just because that site made a random comment that a Mustang with 700 HP could run 9 seconds doesn't make it true. That claim was made nowhere on the site, it was only mentioned in the PDF file, which was already poorly written and had spelling mistakes.



Why do you keep saying that??? I asked you for proof, and you have none, so I think you'd better shut up. The Z06 has more power, and it's 600 lbs. lighter. Do you know how much 600 lbs. slows a car down?



Maseratis? What doesn't beat a Maserati? Do you honestly think anybody cares if your Mustang can beat a Maserati or a Mercedes SL 55 AMG? I don't see a Viper on that list. I don't see a Corvette on that list. The best thing you can come up with is that your Mustang is only 3 seconds slower than a Ferrari? Care to elaborate? I can peddle a bicycle within 3 seconds of a Ferrari if you make the track short enough. It really shows how desparate you are when you'll just give out random numbers like that without any frame of reference whatsoever.



But of course! A live axle! Yeah, I'll bet that'll just magically make up for having less power and weighing 600 lbs. more.

I know, you want so much to believe that the Mustang is a kick-ass race car, but try taking a step back and looking at the things you're saying. Pull Henry Ford's head out of your ass long enough to see how insane most of your Mustang-related comments are.

you're in such denial now man, it's easy to tell by how agressive your argument is. Ok i'll start with your rediculous statement about the ferrari and the bike on a short enough track. First your whole argument for vette being best bang for the buck was that it can keep up with 100,000 dollar ferari's. The F355 is a 125,000 dollar car is it? Well that puts THAT concept to shame. THEN you mention a "short enough track" the Circut de La Sarthe is 8.47 miles long, that's not that short of a track there guy, especially for street cars.

Now for your whole "less power thing" I really think you're starting to lose focus in a big way, I mean. I've shown you that they make 370WHP, and there is even a dyno showing it's estimated crank HP at 417. Do you want ANOTHER dyno showing that? I'll one up that, here's a video of a BONE STOCK 03 cobra dyno'ing at 359 WHEEL horsepower
They even leave on the paper filter, which is raplced by a better one on 90% of lot Cobra's, so this is as LOW as LOW can be on a cobra. 360 Wheel HP

http://www.mikestoyz.com/multimedia/chris03dyno-1.wmv

As far as "616 not on pump gas"...How many cars run 616 Wheel HP on 92 octane? None. Not a single one, and don't say "yeah this vette from blah blah" cause you'd be lying, i searched all night for ANY car that can run 616 wheel horsepower on 92 octane american gasoline. Oh but guess what? It can get near 500 HP on your everyday chevron crap.
 
Um, any chevy 350 variation (ls6, Ls1, Lt1) with JUST a head and cam swap will make 600hp on Premium pump gas...

The reason the cobra has problems running the pumpgas is because a blower is made for lower compression and it really upsets the way the pump gas was designed to be combusted at that high of boost.

duh
 
See I knew you were going to say that...Proove it...Don't just say "Any can do it" Show me one with 620HP on 92 octane fuel.
I gave you proof to the fullest extent with everything i mentioned. You've just mentioned things, proove this.
 
Originally posted by Driftster
First your whole argument for vette being best bang for the buck was that it can keep up with 100,000 dollar ferari's. The F355 is a 125,000 dollar car is it? Well that puts THAT concept to shame.

No, my argument was that a Corvette can beat a $150,000 Ferrari 360 Modena. By your own admission, the Mustang can't keep up with an F355, a car which isn't being made anymore, but you are so diluded that you think this makes it a better "bang for the buck" than a Corvette that can tear it apart.

And now, by your own admission, a 2003 SVT Mustang dynos at 359 HP. Well, a 2001 Z06 dynos at 348, and a 2003 Z06 dynos at 369 HP. They're all close, but the Z06 has more power. Even if you show dynos of a stock Mustang dyno'd at 370 HP, it doesn't matter. You're ignoring the actual performance of the vehicles and the fact that the Mustang is carrying around an extra 600 lbs. of weight.

You're getting so desparate, you're just ignoring everything I say and coming back with strange and mostly irrelevant comments. The Z06 is better than the Mustang. It costs $13,000 more, but it can beat Ferraris and Vipers. The Mustang can't, so most people consider the Corvette a better bang for the buck if they actually care about performance.

I don't love the Z06, and I agree that the 2003 SVT Mustang is a cool car. I'm just telling you the facts, which you will completely ignore since I'm not saying "MUSTANGS RULE!!!"

If I had the cash, I wouldn't buy either of those cars. I'd spend $31,000 on a 1995 NSX-T and $9,000 getting a GruppeM supercharger installed, because I'd much rather have 350 HP at the wheels in an NSX that's 100 lbs. lighter than the Z06.
 
Prove it, prove what? Prove basic engine facts? A supercharger uses LOW compression, the more boost, the more you can't use premium octane fuel. A motor that just swaps heads and cams, will have the same compression because you have not changed the rod or crank, thus not changing the amount fuel is compressed before it is combusted, which means you don't have a change in fuel.
 
Ahem, 2003 Subaru WRX STi lists around $32k.

Throw in about $20k worth of mods to bring it up to the price of a Corvette z06, and you'd probably have 500hp, 11s in the 1/4, 1.05g skidpad, blow anything short of a race car away on a road course, and still have AWD to get you home when it snows on the way back from your drag strip fun. That's bang-for-buck goodness. :lol:
 
Five hundred out of 4 Cylinder? Yea, but lets see that motor last for over 6 months. Running that kind of boost is hell on a motor, absolute hell. Also, all wheel drive is completely unessecary. The corvette has perfect weight distribution, the rear wheel drive system is much lighter, and with correct handeling there is no over/understeer that would cause a need for a heavy AWD system that also drags down horsepower to the wheels.
 
I also don't see the Wrx comming out with a heads up instrument display, a 10 speaker sound system, double analog fully powered seats, does it come with traction control? Im not to terribly knowledgeable on there interiors.
 
Sominon, I still have yet to see any paperwork showing a 620HP engine on 92 octane, so all of your info is nothing but rumor untill you got some evidence, just as the 410HP mustang was, however I gave proof. As far as the corvette dynoing at a higher number, 1 i've looked and have yet to see any 03 z06 dynoing in at the rear wheels at more than 340HP, i've also read many first hand account saying that the Z06 dyno'd in at around 340HP

http://dynoperformance.com/jpgraph/graph_hptq.php?ID=474&width=680&height=450
 
Are you a moron, or just that god damn dumb.

COMPRESSION, is what determines the OCTANE FUEL you are USING. If you change HEADS AND CAM, and leave the ROD, PISTON, AND CRANK alone, you wont change COMPRESSION, So you can run on the same OCTANE fuel as before.

When you speak of mustangs with higher performance SUPER CHARGER kits, with more BOOST, which needs a DIFFERENT COMPRESSION, then before, your changing the OCTANE FUEL your using.
 
I have a Vanquish but I dont have a Viper yet. I need to have them both to test them to see which one is better, and by the way are you guys talking about fully loaded Viper vs fully loaded Vanquish or the original. Also there is only one kind of Vanquish in the game and more then one kind of Viper. I think 3 Vipers in the game vs 1 Vanquish, this isn't fair.
 
Originally posted by Sominon
I also don't see the Wrx comming out with a heads up instrument display, a 10 speaker sound system, double analog fully powered seats, does it come with traction control? Im not to terribly knowledgeable on there interiors.
None of those systems aid performance. How are they relevant to this discussion? :confused:
 
Originally posted by Sominon
Five hundred out of 4 Cylinder? Yea, but lets see that motor last for over 6 months. Running that kind of boost is hell on a motor, absolute hell.
You'd be surprised what digital fuel and spark management can do for reliability. :)
Also, all wheel drive is completely unessecary.
False. :confused:
The corvette has perfect weight distribution,/quote]
That it may, but the Subaru's isn't much worse. What's your point?
the rear wheel drive system is much lighter,
Did you actually look at the relative weights of the cars?
and with correct handeling there is no over/understeer that would cause a need for a heavy AWD system that also drags down horsepower to the wheels.
But you still can't accelerate out of a corner as fast, or powerslide as easily, or dump the clutch at any engine speed you want and still get awesome acceleration, or handle as well on a wet track... the list goes on. Weight aside, AWD owns RWD in the real world. :P
 
I don't care what fuel management system you got, no 4 cylider motor will last at that heavy of boost, not to mention the ungodful amount of money dumped into a car that for that much could have nearly boguht a viper. (That is if you completely overhaul every part in the engine to make it completely capable and as reliable as possible of having those boost levels.)

Also, the WRX STi is a compact car, and a Corvette is a fullsized race car, WRX weight 3153 lbs (According to supercars.net) 3117 Vette... hmmm oh yea your AWD sure is light eh?

Oh, btw go find a high torqueing 'all wheel drive' car and drop the clutch at 'any' engine speed, and i'll watch your drivetrain go through the air like a cruise missle.

Anyway im done posting in this thread.
 
Originally posted by Sominon
I don't care what fuel management system you got, no 4 cylider motor will last at that heavy of boost, not to mention the ungodful amount of money dumped into a car that for that much could have nearly boguht a viper. (That is if you completely overhaul every part in the engine to make it completely capable and as reliable as possible of having those boost levels.)
Because all 4 cylinder motors are crap, right? :rolleyes:

Also, the WRX STi is a compact car, and a Corvette is a fullsized race car, WRX weight 3153 lbs (According to supercars.net) 3117 Vette... hmmm oh yea your AWD sure is light eh?
My point was not that awd is light so much as the cars are a similar weight, and the Sti isn't a stripped-out lightweight model, as the z06 most certainly is. :rolleyes:

Oh, btw go find a high torqueing 'all wheel drive' car and drop the clutch at 'any' engine speed, and i'll watch your drivetrain go through the air like a cruise missle.
Never seen a Skyline at a drag strip, have you? :rolleyes:

Anyway im done posting in this thread.
We'll miss you. :rolleyes:
 
First the z06 isn't a "Stripped out race model" The z06 is simply a upgraded C5. It still has AC, still has A stereo, still has a nice interior, the body is fiberglass that is why it's lighter. Now in terms of AWD, AWD cars for 1 can't be launched like RWD cars, but the AWD DOES make up for it, you also gotta factory in AWD loses alot more through the drivetrain than a RWD Car, seeing as how a WRX makes 240Hp?(not sure) and get's 170 to the wheels...Quite a bit of loss there, but in terms of weight, porsche makes a 50KG AWD system, so that's pretty damn light if you azk me. In the "everday" world. RWD is a heck of alot more practical, needs less power to move, which means less fuel. a 600HP 4 Cylinder is actually pretty damn practical, for instance the Bozz Speed Evo 6, it's a 615HP 4G63. Or the Civic that is featured in this months Hot Compacts & imports that makes 650HP and is streetable, and makes 725 HP with nitrous, and yes these figures are to the wheels. And this car has been running under these conditions for about 5 1/2 months now.

As far as AWD drivetrains taking high rev drops.......Not all can...Subaru WRX's can't..22B's can.....Evo's can....Skyline's can...Audi's can..porsches can...But the funny thing is, i've seen more RWD car's completly fly off of their axles, then I have AWD cars mess up their drivetrain.

All in all, it depends on who makes the car, AWD cars can be better or RWD cars can be better.

oh BTW...A Corvette isn't a full sized race car..If it was a full sized Race car it wouldn't be on the street. The Corvette is a 2 Door Sports Coupe, which is far from a race car. Race bread, yes, race car? Heck no.
 
Ack, one last post.

Supposedly thats better then a 50/50 as I believe porsche used it to but I can't remember where it was said. You can't give me by the way it isn't better as the C5 has 49/51 which is closer to 50/50 and doesn't handle as well.
 
maybe it's because the z06's suspension is more tuned to the body, balance is the most important factor, which means the front springs must be tuned to even out how the car carries that weight as compared to the back. So yeah standing still it might be 53/47. But while the weight is shifting it's not. I'm sure that 53/47 works to the vettes advantage seeing as how it has a LS6 up front. But remember it's still race engineered for that specific car....47/53 works better on some cars than 53/47 would, and so would 50/50
 
The Subaru WRX STI is nice I have one (2003 STi) and I myself am :lol: out loud that you are putting them in the same post together. My STI has 365hp with 360hp with a Blizt turbo upgrade kit and I run 12.7 1/4mile at the track which is a z06 contender now but at stock I only got 13.0 at the 1/4mile and all the z06 stock times I saw were 12.5,12.7,12.8,12.9, and grampa's 13.2 1/4mile times which means ther is noway in hell that the mustang,wrksti,and evo can take this mean beast Z06. My cost on my STI and KIT was only $34,988 which is cheaper than the vett but with out the looks,skill of craftmenship, and the confort that ther is no dout that the Z06 your driveing will give anybody a run for ther money the Z06 doller for doller is the best buy to make. In my case I wanted a 4door car with sleeper POWER which I have ther is now one around here with a car that says sleeper well except the contour SVT 2000's they only have 205hp buy they hang with everyone in 1st,2nd,&3rd gear. OOO ya you can drop the clucth in the WRX STI at ant speed and Not hurt anything ther built to be driven hard hens the S T I on the car.
 

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You sir, I respect more so then any human being on the planet right now. That has to be the most truthful, unbiased, and factual thing i've heard in a long time.
 
Originally posted by SubaruWRXsti
The Subaru WRX STI is nice I have one (2003 STi) and I myself am :lol: out loud that you are putting them in the same post together.
Maybe it's because you didn't read the part where I said
2003 Subaru WRX STi lists around $32k.

Throw in about $20k worth of mods to bring it up to the price of a Corvette z06...
:confused:
 

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