What is wrong with the Lamborghini Murcielago in this game?

[capt_aaa1]

This Lambo is a mule! its curb weight is no good for track racing and the chassis balance is not like its sibling, I have seen several accidents involving it, the car is incredibly fast but is dangerous in the wrong hands.

In GT5 with proper throttle/braking and steering adjustments the car can be tamed very well.

 

[CarreraGT]

Just curious, has anyone actually played with the brake bias and tyres and gotten this thing to handle properly?

 

[afc2112]

Sadly... as the goalposts move, class leaders start to get left behind. Some modern econoboxes can drive rings around the supercars and sportscars of yesteryear. (except for the small issue of power...)

-

Again: regarding the tires: have any of you driven these cars on tires they weren't made to drive on? A car that feels fine-honed and docile on summer rubber definitely won't on cruddy rubber. It's set up to take advantage of the grip it has at all four corners... and changing down two or three steps to worse rubber will change that balance in unpredictable ways.

If you want to compare these cars to real life, get a reasonable facsimile of the rubber they use. With the Lotus, most modern Elises/Exiges come with pretty hardcore Advans... probably the equivalent of "Sports" category tires in GT. The NSX... well... hard to say, but definitely not "Comfort" tires.

Going down a few steps in rubber compound will exaggerate whatever bad habits the stickier rubber was hiding, be it excessive oversteer, excessive understeer, or a twitchy mix of both.

I was comparing the NSX to its contemporary Porsches & Ferraris (993s & F355s).

And even then, I still felt the NSX needed a V8 to be really special. There was no sense of occasion or danger to it. It's a very benign experience. A 965 would have wanted to kill me if I set one foot wrong, but not so with the NSX...

 

[R390GT1'97]

Is the LP670-4 alright though. Or should I just get the Gallardo?

 

[Bigbazz]

I bought a Gallardo and thought it was awesome, much more enjoyable than the Murc for me.

 

[Mike712]

It's a heavy 4 wheel drive car, you need to learn to drive it correctly, slow in fast out, break hard for corners, and go easy on the throttle untill you're past the apex then hit the gas and let the car naturally drift out as you acccerate.

 

[Ariel Atom Bomb]

I was comparing the NSX to its contemporary Porsches & Ferraris (993s & F355s).

And even then, I still felt the NSX needed a V8 to be really special. There was no sense of occasion or danger to it. It's a very benign experience. A 965 would have wanted to kill me if I set one foot wrong, but not so with the NSX...

Just out of curiosity, what year NSX was it? NA2's are way tame compared to NA1's. NA1's feel way more edgey.

 

[afc2112]

Just out of curiosity, what year NSX was it? NA2's are way tame compared to NA1's. NA1's feel way more edgey.

A 92 & a 95. The Manual rack has better feel, IMO. Then again, this car is superb handling wise, its chassis could handle a lot more power.

 

[Ariel Atom Bomb]

A 92 & a 95. The Manual rack has better feel, IMO. Then again, this car is superb handling wise, its chassis could handle a lot more power.

Absolutely. Honda basically underdeveloped their car in one major way. Chassis/suspension was brilliant, but even I will admit that it's a fair bit short power wise.

 

[Oversteerin']

Wow, what a whopper of a tale you have. You got anything to prove you're telling the truth here?

Your story will make a fine addition to THIS thread.

What a whopper of a tale I have? What do you want, pictures of our cars? Sure, I could post up various photos I've taken when I've had the cars out, but what's the point? You'll probably just make some obnoxious comment about how I probably just took pictures at a local car show.

No, I am not going to play that game. You don't want to believe me, fine. I couldn't care less what some jealous kid on the internet thinks about my credibility. Oh, and why exactly did you attach a link to an internet speed check site in your reference to a forum thread that my "whopper story" would be a good fit in?

 

[Goshin2568]

What a whopper of a tale I have? What do you want, pictures of our cars? Sure, I could post up various photos I've taken when I've had the cars out, but what's the point? You'll probably just make some obnoxious comment about how I probably just took pictures at a local car show.

No, I am not going to play that game. You don't want to believe me, fine. I couldn't care less what some jealous kid on the internet thinks about my credibility. Oh, and why exactly did you attach a link to an internet speed check site in your reference to a forum thread that my "whopper story" would be a good fit in?

I don't think it's that people don't believe your story, it's your "I've-driven-it-in-real-life-so-my-word-is-absolute-unchangeble-undisputable-law-no-matter-what-else-is-said-by-anyone" attitide that is getting some people PO'ed.

 

[niky]

I was comparing the NSX to its contemporary Porsches & Ferraris (993s & F355s).

And even then, I still felt the NSX needed a V8 to be really special. There was no sense of occasion or danger to it. It's a very benign experience. A 965 would have wanted to kill me if I set one foot wrong, but not so with the NSX...

Ah. Well... the NSX wasn't really noted for its danger but as to how usable its performance was. Yes... Honda could have put in more power, but I guess that wasn't like the point. The point was that the NSX, like the Miata, was a car that everyone should be able to exploit and enjoy to the fullest... and both could use about 200 hp more.

 

[Oversteerin']

I don't think it's that people don't believe your story, it's your "I've-driven-it-in-real-life-so-my-word-is-absolute-unchangeble-undisputable-law-no-matter-what-else-is-said-by-anyone" attitide that is getting some people PO'ed.

My tone has been purely in response to the fact that it's beyond absurd for a bunch of kids (some of whom aren't even old enough to drive yet) telling me that I don't know what I am talking about and that all the cars in this game are perfect representations of their real-life counterparts when I actually have hands-on experience with the car to say otherwise.

I even included a link to a review from one of the most reputable companies in the business (Car and Driver) that says the exact same thing that I was telling everyone all along, and still all the "experts" here know better. And I'm the a-hole? Anyway, like I said before, I'm done, and will no longer be responding to anymore posts here. If you guys want to keep this thread going, you can do so amongst yourselves.

 

[RedSuinit]

What a whopper of a tale I have? What do you want, pictures of our cars? Sure, I could post up various photos I've taken when I've had the cars out, but what's the point? You'll probably just make some obnoxious comment about how I probably just took pictures at a local car show.

No, I am not going to play that game. You don't want to believe me, fine. I couldn't care less what some jealous kid on the internet thinks about my credibility. Oh, and why exactly did you attach a link to an internet speed check site in your reference to a forum thread that my "whopper story" would be a good fit in?

My tone has been purely in response to the fact that it's beyond absurd for a bunch of kids (some of whom aren't even old enough to drive yet) telling me that I don't know what I am talking about and that all the cars in this game are perfect representations of their real-life counterparts when I actually have hands-on experience with the car to say otherwise.

I even included a link to a review from one of the most reputable companies in the business (Car and Driver) that says the exact same thing that I was telling everyone all along, and still all the "experts" here know better. And I'm the a-hole? Anyway, like I said before, I'm done, and will no longer be responding to anymore posts here. If you guys want to keep this thread going, you can do so amongst yourselves.

Receded.

 

[Mike712]

My tone has been purely in response to the fact that it's beyond absurd for a bunch of kids (some of whom aren't even old enough to drive yet) telling me that I don't know what I am talking about and that all the cars in this game are perfect representations of their real-life counterparts when I actually have hands-on experience with the car to say otherwise.

I even included a link to a review from one of the most reputable companies in the business (Car and Driver) that says the exact same thing that I was telling everyone all along, and still all the "experts" here know better. And I'm the a-hole? Anyway, like I said before, I'm done, and will no longer be responding to anymore posts here. If you guys want to keep this thread going, you can do so amongst yourselves.

Oversteerin have you driven the Lambo on a track? I have and I can assure you like all 4wd cars it understeers at high speed, you probably wouln't have noticed the understeer driving at typical road speeds.

 

[Oversteerin']

Spoken like a true liar.

Fine, rather than listen to you make feable attempts at getting under my skin, it'll just be easier to shut you up. Here's a little snap shot of our F430 in my garage the last time I had it out for a weekend (I don't have any pics of the murci on my phone, so this will have to suffice. After this, **** off, please)

[/IMG]

 

[RedSuinit]

Fine, rather than listen to you make feable attempts at getting under my skin, it'll just be easier to shut you up. Here's a little snap shot of our F430 in my garage the last time I had it out for a weekend (I don't have any pics of the murci on my phone, so this will have to suffice. After this, **** off, please)

[/IMG]

There, was that really so hard? 👍

 

[niky]

Standard practice is to have a piece of paper with your username and "Hi GTP" on it. Just letting you know. Easy way to get people to shut up.

Spoken like a true liar.

If you want to call a guy out and ask him for proof, call him out. But throwaway insults are not kosher. Mm'kay?

 

[Oversteerin']

Standard practice is to have a piece of paper with your username and "Hi GTP" on it. Just letting you know. Easy way to get people to shut up.

Lol, I'll keep that in mind. I didn't have time to prepare a "custom pic," as I don't have any of the cars out right now and had to use a photo that was already on my phone. I'll prepare a "GTP" certified shot next time .

 

[gtfan4life]

Oh my god, the Elise. You can't touch the throttle while the wheels are turned without stepping out.

But thanks for expressing my outrage, Oversteerin'. When I was doing the challenge I kept saying "Show me a Murci that handles like this in real life" out loud in frustration.

I definitely feel the pain here. I have the Collector's Edition Lambo. It has a lot of power and requires alot of focus when cornering. I find if you set traction control to 2 ABS to 1 and all other aids off. It is possible to hook slide around the bends are higher speeds. It does take a little practice. Also you have to not be afraid to approach the bends at a higher speed. Happy Driving All.👍

 

[RedSuinit]

Lol, I'll keep that in mind. I didn't have time to prepare a "custom pic," as I don't have any of the cars out right now and had to use a photo that was already on my phone. I'll prepare a "GTP" certified shot next time .

Seriously though, what do you do for a job? That's really cool that you have gotten to drive all of those cars. Also, can you really blame for for being a skeptic? Most people out here just blow out smoke in order to impress people that they have never even met before. Sorry about the liar comment by the way. No one can resist proving someone wrong when their that blunt about it. Maybe a little unnecessary, but it got you to post a pic, didn't it? Have you ever gotten to drive an MR2?

 

[Oversteerin']

Seriously though, what do you do for a job? That's really cool that you have gotten to drive all of those cars. Also, can you really blame for for being a skeptic? Most people out here just blow out smoke in order to impress people that they have never even met before. Sorry about the liar comment by the way. No one can resist proving someone wrong when their that blunt about it. Maybe a little unnecessary, but it got you to post a pic, didn't it? Have you ever gotten to drive an MR2?

It's all good man, no hard feelings. To answer your question, I work for an exotic car share firm that deals in fractional ownership and rentals. I am in sales, and as such, get to drive the cars from time to time when they are available. We allow members to use our vehicles in sanctioned track events that we sponsor, like HPDEs and various SCCA events. This is how I've been fortunate enough to get track experience with these things. It's a fun job, but it's not as glorious as it sounds, trust me. I make decent money, but you won't see me driving around in a Ferrari of my own anytime soon, I assure you. Anyway, take it easy man.

 

[RedSuinit]

It's all good man, no hard feelings. To answer your question, I work for an exotic car share firm that deals in fractional ownership and rentals. I am in sales, and as such, get to drive the cars from time to time when they are available. We allow members to use our vehicles in sanctioned track events that we sponsor, like HPDEs and various SCCA events. This is how I've been fortunate enough to get track experience with these things. It's a fun job, but it's not as glorious as it sounds, trust me. I make decent money, but you won't see me driving around in a Ferrari of my own anytime soon, I assure you. Anyway, take it easy man.

Sounds like an interesting job to say the least. I have a lot of track experience in my 2, but that's about it. I have had the pleasure of driving ONE 512bb and that thing was a BEAST to handle. I must have spun that car around 4 times before I finally got a good lap in. I have driven a couple of corvettes and a few lotus' but nothing to the degree that it sounds like you have.

 

[Oversteerin']

Sounds like an interesting job to say the least. I have a lot of track experience in my 2, but that's about it. I have had the pleasure of driving ONE 512bb and that thing was a BEAST to handle. I must have spun that car around 4 times before I finally got a good lap in. I have driven a couple of corvettes and a few lotus' but nothing to the degree that it sounds like you have.

Well, those are still cool cars, man 👍. In all reality, everyone thinks that these high-end exotics are the end-all-be-all of sports cars, but they really aren't. Sure, they're fun to drive, but the fact is that there are many cars that will spank Ferraris and other 6 figure monsters around a racetrack for a hell of a lot less (like a well-prepped vette, for example). The exotics are really more about the "experience" than anything else - sound, style, exclusivity, etc. I assure you though, once you get past the novelty of it all, they are just cars - they still have rattles and squeeks, and the same issues that every other car has (oftentimes, more). Anyway, I'm signing off for tonight. Take it easy, man.

 

[7HO]

Because they put economy tires on it in the test. The Elise doesn't even come with tires that crappy.

This. I whinged about the Elise on another forum and then the tyre question struck me so I checked and found it had comfort hard, it all made sense then.

For starters, even with the absolute worst, hard compound, bald tires in the world, no car would have so little adhesion as the lotus in that challenge.

This is where you lose some credibility. I'm not a kid and I have also had the pleasure of driving a wide variety of cars including some exotics mostly through employment. What I have also done that you have not is fit a set of crappy, narrow, old hard tyres to a performance car to deliver it to a mechanic and I can tell you unless you have done this no amount of experience driving the car with good tyres can prepare you for it. The mechanic took the same car for a test drive, came back white and said it was the scariest thing he had ever driven.

While the Elise in Top Gear was worse than I'd expect even with those tyres I have never driven one to the limit (I have driven one excitedly but it was a customers and on public road) and I can imagine a real one would handle similar to that with terrible narrow tyres when pushed hard. Try this in the Top Gear challenge, take off with moderate throttle, short shift it and take corners slow, suddenly it handles a lot more reasonably. My verdict is the comfort hard tyres are terrible.

One more thing to consider is your wheel set up and how you drive. One thing I have noticed when driving high powered cars in the game is I need to make a effort to try to drive them realistically, because my pedals are nothing like a real car and because there are no g forces I often find myself driving far more spirited than I would in a real car. It's a lot harder to feel the car in the game and in real life I'd never get away with the amount of throttle I use in game often in some of the real cars I have driven.

FWIW I haven't had enough playing time with the cars in question to give a thorough assessment so I'm not defending their physics absolutely and I will say that the physics in the game do leave a little to be desired in general, especially the brakes but from what I have experienced I think the premium car physics are the best from any GT title in the series.

The point I'm trying to make is even if you do really have as much experience as you claim you obviously have very little experience with terrible tyres and definitely have no experience with terrible tyres on a performance vehicle so whatever experience you do have doesn't count for much when we are discussing a performance car on terrible tyres.

 

[Mike712]

One more thing to consider is your wheel set up and how you drive. One thing I have noticed when driving high powered cars in the game is I need to make a effort to try to drive them realistically, because my pedals are nothing like a real car and because there are no g forces I often find myself driving far more spirited than I would in a real car. It's a lot harder to feel the car in the game and in real life I'd never get away with the amount of throttle I use in game often in some of the real cars I have driven.
.

Have you tired turning the force feedback up? on higher settings it's easier to detect changes in grip.

 

[ChromeBallz]

The Elise in the event drives so badly because of Comfort tyres. Try it anywhere else with sports soft or even racing tyres, it's a hoot!

The LP640 drives exactly like it's supposed to, i think. Clarkson mentioned it in the Top Gear review (Series 9 episode 5) - The 4WD system is a bit dimwitted. You have tons of grip, but when you get to the limit BAM it's off, where normally you can hold a car in a drift when you go over it.

 

[Mike712]

The Elise in the event drives so badly because of Comfort tyres. Try it anywhere else with sports soft or even racing tyres, it's a hoot!

The LP640 drives exactly like it's supposed to, i think. Clarkson mentioned it in the Top Gear review (Series 9 episode 5) - The 4WD system is a bit dimwitted. You have tons of grip, but when you get to the limit BAM it's off, where normally you can hold a car in a drift when you go over it.

It's the same with all powerful 4wd cars, the 911 turbo is exactly the same in reguards to massive understeer.

 

[7HO]

Have you tired turning the force feedback up? on higher settings it's easier to detect changes in grip.

Yeah I have mine set on max, I get massive arm pump the day after playing for a few hours Still it is not the same as driving a real car, in a real car all your senses work together to feel exactly what the car is doing, I'd love to try an x-sim setup and I'd love it if something like this existed for the PS3.

The pedals are a big thing to, I can't wait to upgrade because my GT Pro pedals are far too soft and I find myself pressing them much more than I do in a real car but then GT has always let you do this and get away with it so now that I am getting into more realistic sims I need to train myself to not press them so hard. I think upgrading to a new setup might help kick bad habits, I hope.

 

[skywolf23]

Fine, rather than listen to you make feable attempts at getting under my skin, it'll just be easier to shut you up. Here's a little snap shot of our F430 in my garage the last time I had it out for a weekend (I don't have any pics of the murci on my phone, so this will have to suffice. After this, **** off, please)

[/IMG]

Sweet car . Are you the stig by any chance? Seeing a list of cars you have driven .

But i do wonder, are not all modern lambos and ferraris and etc heavily electronically controlled and handled depending on what preset setting you set in the car, and that CST option in the ferrai's lest in the 599 and a few others just stands for "commence suicide training" cause turning off all aids in most of these modern sports cars is just that suicide unless you are michael schumacher or someone like that.

And what is the first thing most of us do? turn off asm, and other driving aids in the options and then take the cars out and end up wrecking the car if it was real life and possibly killing ourselves, cause we are pushing the cars at the extreme limits.

Really wish PD would sim the drivers control options in the ferraris and other cars that had adjustable driving aids, instead of the generic gt options of 0-10 and etc.