Wolfe: Out of curiosity, do you play FM4/Horizon with a wheel or controller? Sim or Normal steering? What about deadzone and max range settings? Assists or no assists? I'd have to say, playing PC games for nearly 2 decades, there isn't any sim on a console at the moment that rivals the depth and hardcore realism of PC sims. FM4 is still however, what you'd expect to be an accurate depiction if you want to call it, of a fast moving car and how physics and gravity affect it. If they had made the handling any more hardcore or sim-like, it may not have appealed to the major lot gamers out there. You don't tune in FM4? Buddy, you are seriously missing out. It's the perfect set up on any given track, that really makes your car shine. Experiment with the suspension settings, tire pressures, LSD, and individual gear ratios... you'll see how significantly it affects performance and handling. Though, the damage model is a bit overzealous and it's quite hard around certain turns to avoid the AI cars, unless you want to give up your position completely. As for Horizon, it's only their first game. So not bad for a first attempt. Here's hoping Horizon 2 is released as an exclusive Turn 10 only product. It would be very interesting to see the possibilities in that respect, once the new hardware comes out. Do you really think it's necessary to have such a stark contrast between both games? I mean what's so bad about using everything from FM4 and translating that into an open road setting? They can always include more accessibility options for the average casual/arcade racing fan. Thoughts anyone?