Why can't we be clean?
- Thread starter dabz343
- 57 comments
- 4,128 views
- 1,049
- Grand Rapids,MI
- HaydenFan69
Those kids have parents who are saying to them, "You crash this week, you are done." That level of fear conditions those who really want to do this sport to be better drivers. Plus the creating of hero's from those who are questionable on track leads those to think anyone can do it. Yet they fail to see those guys have years and thousands of hours of practice in order to have the ability to make that pass. Drive feet off the back of a car lap after lap.
- 223
- United States
I’m nearly 40 and resisted GT Sport until recently. Playing online was something I didn’t ever care to do. I read that GT Sport had a new offline mode. If only I had realized how crappy it was (start last and try to catch the first place car with a huge lead) I wouldn’t have bothered.
I played online for a while, but it’s just not fun for me. I can’t run the lines I want to run, because most racers are completely unpredictable. The penalty system is a joke, and too often the victim gets the penalty. I’m sure iracing is better, but I have limited time and don’t want to invest in a pc just for one racing game. That’s why I’m so hopeful that ACC can adjust the frame rate on ps5. That is the best racing I have EVER experienced in my life, and it’s against AI who are both fair and predictable. The average GT Sport racer is playing on their couch and treats each position as if it’s do or die. I’m not good enough (nor have the time) to run fia, but I still read the fia thread on here. Even there, the best of the best are routinely taken out, punted, blocked and cheated out of a fair and clean race. Hell, 1 Ferrari driver took out the other in a recent F1 race! There’s almost no hope for clean online racing. The offline mode in GT is catered to even the slowest racers, and it’s not even a real race to have you start in last place and try to pick off the slow AI drivers 1 by 1 before you run out of laps. Too bad, because it’s the perfect simcade kind of game but you can’t get a real race online or offline.
I played online for a while, but it’s just not fun for me. I can’t run the lines I want to run, because most racers are completely unpredictable. The penalty system is a joke, and too often the victim gets the penalty. I’m sure iracing is better, but I have limited time and don’t want to invest in a pc just for one racing game. That’s why I’m so hopeful that ACC can adjust the frame rate on ps5. That is the best racing I have EVER experienced in my life, and it’s against AI who are both fair and predictable. The average GT Sport racer is playing on their couch and treats each position as if it’s do or die. I’m not good enough (nor have the time) to run fia, but I still read the fia thread on here. Even there, the best of the best are routinely taken out, punted, blocked and cheated out of a fair and clean race. Hell, 1 Ferrari driver took out the other in a recent F1 race! There’s almost no hope for clean online racing. The offline mode in GT is catered to even the slowest racers, and it’s not even a real race to have you start in last place and try to pick off the slow AI drivers 1 by 1 before you run out of laps. Too bad, because it’s the perfect simcade kind of game but you can’t get a real race online or offline.
- 626
- Northern Ireland
- GTRP_mirial
Since the start I've been saying it's because PD have chosen to make the game accessible and to level the playing field which discourages discipline and only encourages bad driving habits from day one which harden with time. It's still surprising PD being Japanese, that they ever chose this philosophy given they are a very disciplined people and aspire to create things that are of good quality.
Kids starting off in a 10-15 HP kart from day one with real wheel braking requires immediate discipline to avoid crashing, never mind being fast. The difficulty would seem to be a stimulus for those doing karting, whereas the difficulty with a real sim is a hurdle and source of pain to the gamer.
- 2,756
- New Plymouth
I think it is a combo of many things. People don't have injury on the line in these races. For most of us we will never meet our competitors in person. Nothing to worry about there. Ratings can be manipulated with careful planning. Penalty system can be manipulated, and for quite a while there actually rewarded dirty driving.
And the Gran Turismo AI. All along punting cars, pushing them wide and being hit plenty from the AI was a problem on the GT series. How people were suddenly supposed to switch from that barge and bash type of driving to super smooth without a serious rewrite of the whole system is a mystery.
In the end we choose to be clean or not. I am currently recovering from a reset that I got in part because I was considered the problem in incidents solely because I had a higher DR. I did fight back, and am paying the price for it. But I choose to fight clean unless all other options are gone in the majority of cases. We just need to convince others of this.
And the Gran Turismo AI. All along punting cars, pushing them wide and being hit plenty from the AI was a problem on the GT series. How people were suddenly supposed to switch from that barge and bash type of driving to super smooth without a serious rewrite of the whole system is a mystery.
In the end we choose to be clean or not. I am currently recovering from a reset that I got in part because I was considered the problem in incidents solely because I had a higher DR. I did fight back, and am paying the price for it. But I choose to fight clean unless all other options are gone in the majority of cases. We just need to convince others of this.
- 53
- United Kingdom
I do my very best to run clean races be that online or against the AI but when you're in a lobby with questionable other drivers who dive punt and block it just gets frustrating , I had chance to get into a good lobby last week had around 13/15 players mostly good clean driving except for one guy who for unknown reasons kept running me off track or punting , anyway after about four races with different tracks I had had enough the next time he pushed me I took revenge , just happened to be on Brands , I gave him a gentle nudge at (I don't know the corners name) the hairpin at beginning of track he went right into the gravel .
Anyway turns out he was room owner he took it badly and kicked me out , Muppet .
So clean is best but if it turns nasty just leave the track that's my philosophy.
Anyway turns out he was room owner he took it badly and kicked me out , Muppet .
So clean is best but if it turns nasty just leave the track that's my philosophy.
- 274
- England
- ruzzwald
I've done roughly 1500 races on Gtsport and I'd say maximum 50 have had proper dirty drivers in them
Most of them are clean
There are a lot of factors, and it can also be to do with your attitude as well as what they are doing
If you go in thinking it's all dumb everyone's dirty and whatever your probably not gonna find the clean racing and only focus on when someone does something you don't like
Tbh for what it is, gtsport gives some of the best racing for the best value for money I've had
The penalty system can be hugely frustrating though, and now it can be worse due to it noticing things that didn't matter before like little taps in the rear which can be so subtle
But hey it's non contact so we try our best to avoid it
But overall it's got a great feel, the hardest drivers to over come are the ones that can't admit defeat into a turn, for example you get on the inside they still turn in on you that kind of thing,
But then you just gotta be creative or aggressive make it stick and get away
If your worried about Dr and Sr make a back up account and enjoy yourself don't get wound up then save the high level racing for the main and fun and care free for the back up
Most of them are clean
There are a lot of factors, and it can also be to do with your attitude as well as what they are doing
If you go in thinking it's all dumb everyone's dirty and whatever your probably not gonna find the clean racing and only focus on when someone does something you don't like
Tbh for what it is, gtsport gives some of the best racing for the best value for money I've had
The penalty system can be hugely frustrating though, and now it can be worse due to it noticing things that didn't matter before like little taps in the rear which can be so subtle
But hey it's non contact so we try our best to avoid it
But overall it's got a great feel, the hardest drivers to over come are the ones that can't admit defeat into a turn, for example you get on the inside they still turn in on you that kind of thing,
But then you just gotta be creative or aggressive make it stick and get away
If your worried about Dr and Sr make a back up account and enjoy yourself don't get wound up then save the high level racing for the main and fun and care free for the back up
- 4,500
- Australia
It's quite simple, there's no real consequences when being dirty in a game.
Do it in real life and you might get yourself banned for a long time or injured or killed
Do it in real life and you might get yourself banned for a long time or injured or killed
- 7,755
- Yorkshire
- ScapeGoat4U
- WhippingBoy
Some people enjoy driving dirty, & PD doesn't cater to them. Dirty Shuffle lobbies were immensely popular in GT5, but they seem to be unaware of that fact. Trying to force everyone to drive to the same standards, and with a broken penalty system to boot, when different people have wildly varying racing preferences is a recipe for disaster (as is putting all ages & skill levels together out on the same track). Destruction derby/banger racing exists in the real world, as does aggressive BTCC style racing & Rally Cross, etc, & GT fans come from all kinds of different backgrounds having a wide range of tastes when it comes to what motorsports they follow in real life. PD's "optimistic" approach to Sport Mode reminds me of a Zoo owner who decides that all the animals should be put together in one large enclosure so that they can get along & play nicely with one another!
- 39
- United Kingdom
- JudgeBerry
Some people enjoy driving dirty, & PD doesn't cater to them. Dirty Shuffle lobbies were immensely popular in GT5, but they seem to be unaware of that fact. Trying to force everyone to drive to the same standards, and with a broken penalty system to boot, when different people have wildly varying racing preferences is a recipe for disaster (as is putting all ages & skill levels together out on the same track). Destruction derby/banger racing exists in the real world, as does aggressive BTCC style racing & Rally Cross, etc, & GT fans come from all kinds of different backgrounds having a wide range of tastes when it comes to what motorsports they follow in real life. PD's "optimistic" approach to Sport Mode reminds me of a Zoo owner who decides that all the animals should be put together in one large enclosure so that they can get along & play nicely with one another!
Good points.
Have some stock car racing on dirt tracks with a different penalty system in place to that used for the regular racing. It could be a lot of fun. Damage model would also help for this.
- 3,051
- England
- kilesa4568
I don't like to see dirty driving but I can't sink to that level as a protest against it any more. It just feels wrong.
It's often entertaining watching how much punishment people will take before they react though.
It's often entertaining watching how much punishment people will take before they react though.
- 227
- California
- My-Kull
No meaningful consequences seems to encourage dirty driving, along with frustration. It occurred to me that a lot of frustration could be avoided if players actually prepared themselves for live competition. Before I did any on-line racing in GT6, I made sure I could get gold in every single-player race. A lot of people seem unprepared for the level of competition in some rooms.
- 1,049
- Grand Rapids,MI
- HaydenFan69
From the Nation’s Cup race from SSRX, I don’t know if I’d call it dirty driving. Just bad driving. Drivers a bit impatient or overconfident in their skills. Even from a blocking standpoint, they aren’t necessarily malicious, just not very good with other drivers next to them on the track.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
I would say, online tracks only unlock after completing the circuit experience for the trak you want to race on. It was kinda annoying that PD only added the circuit experience for new tracks in the update after introducing the track. But it would be a good requirement, gold it to race in sport mode on that track. (Although I guess races on the Nordschleife would be very low in attendance lol)
Or if not completed, restricted to SR.E SR.D SR.C matching.
Completed on bronze, up to SR.B matching.
Silver, SR.A matching at most.
Gold, SR.S unlocks for that track.
- 1,298
- Australia
- TPC_Fudsy
In my experience there are many who don't care about injury in the real world. Don't even think about scratching their car though.... maybe that would help, if your car is damaged you must spend in game credit to repair it....?
- 39
- United Kingdom
- JudgeBerry
Or match make in 2 stages - first by best qualifying time on track and SR (so everyone is very closely matched) and then have qualifying laps FIA style to determine grid order.
- 49
- Roodepoort
What ticks me off is when a car is behind you and believes that he has right of way into the next corner by dive bombing you, using your car as a cornering aid. IRW racing , nobody that's one car length behind would ever attempt to pass a car by dive bombing on the inside to a corner....
All my overtakes are faster exit speeds and slipstream.
All my overtakes are faster exit speeds and slipstream.
- 227
- California
- My-Kull
How about this: Penalties that require you to attend ten minutes of racing school, content determined by the nature of the infraction, dive bombing, brake checking, using other cars to bounce off of in a corner, whatever. Or, instead of school, get gold on the track vs. the AI with a clean race bonus. No more online until you do your ten minutes. For repeated, egregious violators.
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- 1,045
- United Kingdom
In the 2d age of sprite racing games like Outrun if you hit a car or object it's an instant catastrophe. As games got better into the 3d realm cars were more often real weighted physics models that you can bounce off like dodgems. So many players would win races in GT, GT2, GT3, GT4, GT5 and GT6 offline by using the AI as a brake or a wall to lean on. Old habits die hard.
Sometimes it is misunderstanding and inexperience, someone switches to a car with bad brakes, doesn't realise the effect the slipstream has or doesn't take tyres into account, brakes in their usual place and hits the car in front. The car in front thinks they've been punted, and the battle begins.
Other times it is players who just accept the penalty system as part of the game and see that whatever it allows is legitimate within the game even if it isn't in the spirit of racing, MinMax everything, like the final chicane at Goodwood before it was blocked.
Sometimes it is misunderstanding and inexperience, someone switches to a car with bad brakes, doesn't realise the effect the slipstream has or doesn't take tyres into account, brakes in their usual place and hits the car in front. The car in front thinks they've been punted, and the battle begins.
Other times it is players who just accept the penalty system as part of the game and see that whatever it allows is legitimate within the game even if it isn't in the spirit of racing, MinMax everything, like the final chicane at Goodwood before it was blocked.
- 49
- Roodepoort
Best way to fix the penalty system is ...REALITY. ANY collision of any sort....GAME OVER....RETIRED! Your race over! Both cars involved! ..
Races will be alot cleaner that much is 100% certain.
And too many retirements due to collisions....BANNED! Same as being sacked by a team.
Problem solved....online racing will be EXCELLENT!
Races will be alot cleaner that much is 100% certain.
And too many retirements due to collisions....BANNED! Same as being sacked by a team.
Problem solved....online racing will be EXCELLENT!
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- 905
- Indiana USA
- tmsheehan
So most tracks at T1 you lose half the field, next few turns a few more, now you are running with a field of 6-8 . . . how long do you think online racing will last?
Yes, a lot cleaner because fewer will be racing . . .not sure Sony, the game sponsors, or PD would like that very much.
4th statement into your approach and I am still not seeing any advantage to your method. Banned is a tough penalty. If you want "team" play then why not bring this type of feature into the GAME? After all we are talking about a game.
Not seeing a problem solved, actually seeing the end of a franchise because it went off the rails with it's penalty/punishment system and no one wants to play it anymore.
This is my rebuttal and only mine. Enjoy the game as it is, a multiplayer racing game (with problem areas).
#shared fault
- 49
- Roodepoort
You obviously 1 of the kind us real racers are trying to get rid of....
I dont fear such kind of rules as I am a very clean racer.
What we would be left with are all the serious clean racers. All the kiddies and their dive bombings will be gone !
You will rage quit and wont make the end of a single race.
Hmmm.... theres the problem....your mindset is wrong....but you definitely not alone so dont worry ..
I dont fear such kind of rules as I am a very clean racer.
What we would be left with are all the serious clean racers. All the kiddies and their dive bombings will be gone !
I invite you to come race a stint or 2 on project cars 2.....
You will rage quit and wont make the end of a single race.
So most tracks at T1 you would lose half the field...... IRW do they lose half the field at T1 and another quarter at turn 2? NO! So that shows me you are 100% ok with 16 cars all trying to go through a corner at the same time....
Hmmm.... theres the problem....your mindset is wrong....but you definitely not alone so dont worry ..
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- 905
- Indiana USA
- tmsheehan
I actually do enjoy PC2 as well so not sure what you are getting at. I don't rage quit (I realize it is a game and don't quit when things don't go my way. I start a race and finish it no matter what the end results are - personal pride I guess.) and have no problems making it to the end of a race either.
If you want to get rid of my kind of racer - that is your choice. I personally believe I am a good clean racer (who makes mistakes at times) but I choose clean driving and my SR rating over crappy driving.
I just realize this is a game, one that a company designed and marketed which relies on patrons to play. The fewer patrons the less reason to develop follow-on games. So go ahead make extreme punishments and it harder to play for all - lets see how long that lasts.
Don't kid yourself, not all crappy racers are "kiddies and their dive bombers".
I don't believe I said I was ok with 16 cars going through T1, please don't take my words out of context.
To each their own opinions, we just do not agree on the method to penalize racers.
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