Why CSA is just ridiculous and should be banned for wheels

[LennyB]

Thanks. I changed the poll. I think authentic should be above like this not below. Right ?

I also changed the question into what people wish to be in sport mode.

Second poll is not possible, but less relevant I think. Because I a, already sure people use things just because they are possible and want the best possible times within whats allowed.

Where is it?

 

[Macboyilija]

I am waiting for the comments here before I start the poll of course ! Only scaff reacted. So I wait a little for other remarks and if not I will post it.

I want it to be able to chose 2 options so the last question could be answered as well.


POLL QUESTION: (1) What is your wish regarding to aid-tools used in sport mode (so not single player) and (2) do you want it to be changed ?

If you drive with a steering wheel chose the SW option, if you drive with a controller, chose the DS4 option. You can chose 2 answers so please answer both questions.

I play with SW: I want no aids at all !
I play with SW: I want no aids at all, just ABS allowed
I play with SW: I want authentic: only aids that the actual car or class has
I play with SW: I want always TCS and ABS allowed
I play with SW: I want always TCS, ASM and ABS allowed
I play with SW: I want always TCS, ASM, CSA and ABS allowed
I play with SW: I want everything always allowed ! (also racing lines etc)
I play with DS4: I want no aids at all !
I play with DS4: I want no aids at all, just ABS allowed
I play with DS4: I want authentic: only aids that the actual car or class has
I play with DS4: I want always TCS and ABS allowed
I play with DS4: I want always TCS, ASM and ABS allowed
I play with DS4: I want always TCS, ASM, CSA and ABS allowed
I play with DS4: I want everything always allowed ! (also racing lines etc)

I am open to change if PD changes the aid rules for sport mode
I am open to change if PD changes the aid rules but for FIA races only
I like it as it is and dont want PD to change a thing.


Does it seem clear the way I formulate it regarding the 2 questions ? English is not my main language and I dont know if i formulate it correctly. Help is welcome.

 

[LennyB]

Looks good to me.

 

[zzz_pt]

There's another option missing.

I don't have a wish but I'll drive with any restrictions / permissions.

This is what I do atm btw. I drive ABS only or ABS+CSA if I want to have a more relaxed play time.

 

[Macboyilija]

Zzz_pt I added this part with the 2nd question at the bottom. Agree ?

That way we know better the real reason for chosing that option.

 

[zzz_pt]

Zzz_pt I added this part with the 2nd question at the bottom. Agree ?

That way we know better the real reason for chosing that option.

Yes.

 

[Macboyilija]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/poll-what-aid-tools-in-sport-mode-should-be-allowed.374648/

Finally

 

[Voodoovaj]

I think we do have different versions of the game, in your video there are no greyed out aids. On my version of the game, the aids are always displayed ?

EDIT : @Macboyilija If there can be two poles in one thread, it would be good to see what people would like, and what people use..

I hope a lot of people would like only ABS, but use CSA to compete with everyone else using CSA even though they don't like it.

You don't see them because the game is in HDR and the colors don't always show in the Youtube upload. The only aid I have on is ABS, so it's in the grey (red when active). The other aid icons are transparent (disabled).

 

[JacksHerer]

Ah I didn't know that with HDR/youtube, I've noticed the sound, it's a shame the engine sounds don't upload properly either.

 

[Voodoovaj]

By that logic it would still be super useful with either the hardest street tire on, or the softest race tire on, so does that still exist to you?

Do you use it? And if so when and why? It's hard for me to believe that people don't see it as hocus pocus, I think it is a mask that smooths over flaws in the physics and in that thought process I wonder why it's just not always on for everyone, not pointed out, and not an option. I keep hearing that it is not beneficial but I keep seeing top 10 drivers using it lol, I've not ran across a replay where it's obviously being exploited but I don't watch many replays either.

If it is a safety net then it's a good idea not to use it, you'll never do your best when you know a mistake will not be penalized, you might very well start taking risks you normally wouldn't also.

By the logic of your friend Mr. P, I should be able to turn on CSA and run 1:37.9 (1 second faster) which would have made me one of the top 3-4 players in the western hemisphere. A nice thought, but highly unlikely. If it ACTUALLY gave me that benefit, why wouldn't I use it?

I never used CSA on strong or weak. Also, most lobbies that I play in don't allow it, so what benefit is there to gain a skill that I then have to go without in the lobbies? I have tried it and I have yet to find it a benefit. It has only ever been a hindrance. As you say, it is a safety net at best. People who are seeing huge time gains with CSA enabled aren't driving very well anyway.

So this goes round and round. The only people who use it for advantageous purposes, aren't that good. Good players who use it, use it for comfort rather than for speed.

The #1 reason people crash into others is poor driving, aka poor car control, and the thought of taking away a car control assist from poor drivers seems extremely counter intuitive.

 

[mirial]

Can I just ask one thing, why are so many here not interested in trying to learn to overcome driving without CSA? I've posted solid, invaluable advice to some folks in the past who were struggling which was only recognised by one or two people (@dabz343 )

@Macboyilija I think the option of replacing default ABS with weak needs to be added because the skill of carefully balancing and rotating the car after heavy braking has almost been removed. Frustrating that no one at PD has recognised this (yet) and it's a pity Lewis with his skill and influence couldn't have recommended to Kaz to get rid of it during his demo....

 

[polizei]

By the logic of your friend Mr. P, I should be able to turn on CSA and run 1:37.9 (1 second faster) which would have made me one of the top 3-4 players in the western hemisphere. A nice thought, but highly unlikely. If it ACTUALLY gave me that benefit, why wouldn't I use it?

I never used CSA on strong or weak. Also, most lobbies that I play in don't allow it, so what benefit is there to gain a skill that I then have to go without in the lobbies? I have tried it and I have yet to find it a benefit. It has only ever been a hindrance. As you say, it is a safety net at best. People who are seeing huge time gains with CSA enabled aren't driving very well anyway.

So this goes round and round. The only people who use it for advantageous purposes, aren't that good. Good players who use it, use it for comfort rather than for speed.

The #1 reason people crash into others is poor driving, aka poor car control, and the thought of taking away a car control assist from poor drivers seems extremely counter intuitive.

Just for fun, go try this challenge with no CSA and with CSA and see if there is any difference. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/nordschleife-world-record-challenge.374511/

 

[Voodoovaj]

Can I just ask one thing, why are so many here not interested in trying to learn to overcome driving without CSA? I've posted solid, invaluable advice to some folks in the past who were struggling which was only recognised by one or two people (@dabz343 )

@Macboyilija I think the option of replacing default ABS with weak needs to be added because the skill of carefully balancing and rotating the car after heavy braking has almost been removed. Frustrating that no one at PD has recognised this (yet) and it's a pity Lewis with his skill and influence couldn't have recommended to Kaz to get rid of it during his demo....

THIS.

And I am currently going through the ABS weak battle. I went from ABS default and 0 balance to ABS weak, and I went faster. Then I went back to default and balance +4 or +5 and I went faster still (by a significant amount) and in my gut I feel I can go faster still if I go back to ABS weak and practice more.

Just for fun, go try this challenge with no CSA and with CSA and see if there is any difference. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/nordschleife-world-record-challenge.374511/

To what end? Why would I bother driving an unrealistic car, at an unrealistic speed, for an unrealistic competition that gives me no benefit whatsoever? I gain zero. I gain no skill. I gain no points. I gain nothing. If you are going to equate a realistic 3 minute Nurb lap to the realism of CSA, that's going to be a hard argument to support.

 

[AdamA998]

Lol, ABS is not getting removed, people need it online in Sport mode. Anyway the only assist I used to use was TC at 2, now I drive with nothing except ABS and brake balance.

 

[JacksHerer]

I have wondered if changing aids around is recognised by the game, kind of like shopping around for insurance, you keep getting better deals.

 

[polizei]

THIS.

And I am currently going through the ABS weak battle. I went from ABS default and 0 balance to ABS weak, and I went faster. Then I went back to default and balance +4 or +5 and I went faster still (by a significant amount) and in my gut I feel I can go faster still if I go back to ABS weak and practice more.



To what end? Why would I bother driving an unrealistic car, at an unrealistic speed, for an unrealistic competition that gives me no benefit whatsoever? I gain zero. I gain no skill. I gain no points. I gain nothing. If you are going to equate a realistic 3 minute Nurb lap to the realism of CSA, that's going to be a hard argument to support.

"just for fun" Do you have reading comprehension problems?

 

[Voodoovaj]

I have wondered if changing aids around is recognised by the game, kind of like shopping around for insurance, you keep getting better deals.

No, but by playing with them you do feel what the car is doing and you gain car control.

"just for fun" Do you have reading comprehension problems?

I read it as a hostile challenge. Sorry. In any case, I hate the Tomahawk. I find it the same kind of fun as shoving a fork in my eye.

 

[Voodoovaj]

delete

 

[NommyNom]

So I am a DS4 user and I tried turning on CSA last night, it felt so odd and twitchy, like the car was constantly fighting me and I couldn’t get close to the times I set with it off. I could be doing something wrong or the way I am driving is all wrong. Hopefully I can get a wheel soon, I’ll run the test again then.

 

[JayRS200]

Come on guys, you all know that using CSA with a wheel is just plainly ridiculous!
The option should only be active for controller settings. (Suggest this to PD please)

- The whole point of using a wheel is that you want to steer the car as the real thing.
- The Force Feedback gets messed up - strange forces when the correction gets active
- Some of you guys keep saying 'it does not make me faster' and then 'just resting my arms' or 'just a safety net' or 'just makes me more consistent' Don't be ridiculous. It helps a lot, it prevents spinning, so you can drive on the limit more consistently and thus are way faster on average. Don't you dare to say: "Oh, I can countersteer like god - in principle - but sometimes I just need to rest and leave it to the electronics."

I can already hear some of you saying "What about TCS then?" But don't confuse things here. TCS is not fundamentally ridiculous. A race series might allow or disallow it. The same should go for GT races. At the moment it is (unfortunately) allowed in every race. (Another possible improvement for PD)

Note Added:
Just to make one point clear:
I am not complaining, whining or moaning. Nor am I telling people what to use or accuse them for anything.
I am just ridiculing the serious, even top notch drivers that use CSA.
I think that ridicule is stronger than any argument here.

Agreed. I see some youtubers using it and it makes the car they are driving look so easy and unnatural.

Fair enough most I've seen are quite modest and not bigging themselves up too much, but it's flattering them.

These are people who aren't noobs though. Fair enough everyone can do what they feel like but for me I lose a bit of respect for them.

 

[nord_clane]

That lap...the CSA Icon is flickering like hell...

I can not take laps like this serious or be impressed by them. He can just push like hell with no danger at all because of CSA.

To add to that: This guy is normally not a top10 guy...

 

[zzz_pt]

That lap...the CSA Icon is flickering like hell...

I can not take laps like this serious or be impressed by them. He can just push like hell with no danger at all because of CSA.

To add to that: This guy is normally not a top10 guy...

I think CSA is completely useless with the Bugatti The car is glued to the track. Easier to drive than most Gr.3 or even Gr.4 with ABS only. #realism

 

[ASH32]

I was way slower with CSA on at todays Race C at Suzuka, had to run with it off. That should please some people.

 

[Koutch_Pro]

I am waiting for the comments here before I start the poll of course ! Only scaff reacted. So I wait a little for other remarks and if not I will post it.

I want it to be able to chose 2 options so the last question could be answered as well.


POLL QUESTION: (1) What is your wish regarding to aid-tools used in sport mode (so not single player) and (2) do you want it to be changed ?

If you drive with a steering wheel chose the SW option, if you drive with a controller, chose the DS4 option. You can chose 2 answers so please answer both questions.


I play with DS4: I want authentic: only aids that the actual car or class has


I am open to change if PD changes the aid rules for sport mode



Does it seem clear the way I formulate it regarding the 2 questions ? English is not my main language and I dont know if i formulate it correctly. Help is welcome.

those would be my answers, and you know the stupid thing is, I do use "whats available" in a race. Although (because of the TT) I never use csa annymore.

 

[LennyB]

That lap...the CSA Icon is flickering like hell...

I can not take laps like this serious or be impressed by them. He can just push like hell with no danger at all because of CSA.

To add to that: This guy is normally not a top10 guy...

Magnetic rumbles are alive and well, they've never really gone away it's just that controlling the effect has become harder in the game. CSA to the rescue.

 

[Rage Racer]

I use CSA with some cars tending to oversteer, like Audi R8 LMS or Cayman GT4. But only in Sport mode and to be more stable. However, I could just use the ASM if CSA got banned in Sport mode.

 

[F4H Rosso]

That lap...the CSA Icon is flickering like hell...

I can not take laps like this serious or be impressed by them. He can just push like hell with no danger at all because of CSA.

To add to that: This guy is normally not a top10 guy...

Is this not witch-hunting?

You aren't impressed by my times or videos but feel the need to comment on them on YT or post them here, funny, that.

FWIW, I'm not usually a top ten guy because I barely play, not for any other reason. CSA doesn't magically give me a divine gift to go from mediocre to top ten material and if you think that, you've lost the plot. I can also say that I'd have no issue running the same time without CSA, as I proved on stream this evening.

I have respect for you and your pace, I recognise you and wouldn't ever come on a public forum and try and bash your name without you knowing. That's not on.

 

[LennyB]

@F4H Rosso

I hope no one took it as a bash on you, I know I didn't, I might have poked fun at CSA but that's what the thread is about. Don't you think it's easier to hold on as you cross on and off the rumbles? They can push you off, suck you in, and be generally unpleasant.

Anyway, nice lap. 👍

 

[zzz_pt]

Bugatti at Yamagwia.

With CSA you can be "safer" (not sure if faster) at least at 2 points on the track: first corner and the SS's after sector 2. In fact, for me, the worst corner to nail was always the first one. I've tried it with BB all the way from -5 to +5 and the car just spins out if you break more than 40% at corner entry (T1). I restarted the lap tons of times after T1 or even mid T1. But managed the 1:15:899 with ABS only.

With the M6, for example, on this exact track, the place where you can feel the car is more stable with CSA (again, not sure if faster) is on the SS's.

Having said all that, I will still turn on CSA if I feel like it. And I don't care if some people roll their eyes. I've hopefully shown I can be just as fast, if not faster, with ABS only.

 

[F4H Rosso]

@F4H Rosso

I hope no one took it as a bash on you, I know I didn't, I might have poked fun at CSA but that's what the thread is about. Don't you think it's easier to hold on as you cross on and off the rumbles? They can push you off, suck you in, and be generally unpleasant.

Anyway, nice lap. 👍

I’ve got no issue with the thread or it’s sentiments, I wish CSA didn’t exist to be perfectly honest. What I don’t like is when it gets personal and I think Nord crosses that line when he starts saying things like “this is a guy that’s not usually top ten” as if that’s relevant to the thread or conversation. Like I said in my previous post, he’s more than happy to post on my videos where he knows he can have a civil discussion with me (and has done in the past) but instead he chose to post my vid here with the intention of shaming me, making a personal comment to go with it.

If people want to debate CSA then that’s cool but @nord_clane can leave me out of it. I’m not being anyone’s scapegoat.