Why is "Duping" so frowned upon as cheating when rubberband grinding is fine?

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Devedander
I was thinking moral difference since the term "cheater" usually implies immorality... Duping gets you something for virtually no work and so does rubber banding and bspeccing with an x2010
All of which are arguably "not how it was meant to be done."
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If b-speccing with an X2010 or duping were "not how it was meant to be done", then you wouldn't be able to do it that way. That you can, and PD haven't changed that, tells me they really don't give a s**t one way or the other.

And it's not like they aren't aware or watching - look how quick they changed GT Academy when the cutters and bouncers were pointed out, and how quickly they cancelled the entire round when they were pointed out AGAIN.

If you couldn't enter the X2010 in B-spec, you couldn't B-spec grind with it. It's not like there's a series it needs to be there for, like the FGT, and we all know there ARE cars that you CAN'T B-spec with (or A-spec, either, Ferrari F2010 and F2007!)

I left my PS3 on for a while, while I would go to work, and I'd let Bob B-spec me up some money and XP. I tried different cars - X2010, FGT, 430 Scuderia, and even the '70 Challenger RM (that one lost Tsukuba 9-hour by 20 seconds. :( )

If B-spec grinding is cheating, if duping is cheating, then rubberband grinding is cheating, period.
 
They put the backup in gt5 and they also added the "receive all" button in the community area. They knew it u were going to be "accepting" lots of items.

All other gt games have been exploited!!! Money cheats! Saving friends garages! All been done! Gt5 is no different. They just want to sell games. Probably someone is buying the game right now because they know they can go home and trade for a x2010!!
 
NjLowrider
They just want to sell games. Probably someone is buying the game right now because they know they can go home and trade for a x2010!!
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Exactly. If it put the dosh in the pockets of Sony execs, they really, REALLY don't care what you do with your game, so long as it doesn't impact their company negatively (such as tainted GT Academy events were in danger of doing)
 
I couldn't get a table to show up here: so compare the numbered from one with the corresponding number in the other.

Duping = Worse Evil

1) uses up server bandwidth (requires the internet)

2) spawns cars exponentially over the web between many people

3) uses up email addresses and PSN names

4) requires no time to get a 20 million dollar car (nearly instantaneous)

5) resembles nothing but hacking, file manipulation, etc OUTSIDE the game environment

6) the fix (limiting how and when save files can be used) could prevent many from having access to their saves which they might legitimately need

7) duping can be done from the start by absolute noobs


VS

Rubber Band Grinding A-spec = Lesser Evil

1) uses no bandwidth (can be done without access to the internet)

2) limited to a single person’s garage unless he dupes for others too

3) only requires the original PSN

4) requires 20 hours or so to get a 20 million dollar car

5) Entirely within the game, almost exactly like B-spec: same as idle B-spec running for days on end (a-spec grinding gets you more money faster and therefore saves more electricity)

6) the fix (removing X1 eligibility) would affect only those who grinded in this way

7) A-spec rubber banding requires an X1 and must occur only after the player has already progressed a ways into the game
 
Hastatus
I couldn't get a table to show up here: so compare the numbered from one with the corresponding number in the other.

Duping = Worse Evil

1) uses up server bandwidth (requires the internet)

2) spawns cars exponentially over the web between many people

3) uses up email addresses and PSN names

4) requires no time to get a 20 million dollar car (nearly instantaneous)

5) resembles nothing but hacking, file manipulation, etc OUTSIDE the game environment

6) the fix (limiting how and when save files can be used) could prevent many from having access to their saves which they might legitimately need

7) duping can be done from the start by absolute noobs


VS

Rubber Band Grinding A-spec = Lesser Evil

1) uses no bandwidth (can be done without access to the internet)

2) limited to a single person’s garage unless he dupes for others too

3) only requires the original PSN

4) requires 20 hours or so to get a 20 million dollar car

5) Entirely within the game, almost exactly like B-spec: same as idle B-spec running for days on end (a-spec grinding gets you more money faster and therefore saves more electricity)

6) the fix (removing X1 eligibility) would affect only those who grinded in this way

7) A-spec rubber banding requires an X1 and must occur only after the player has already progressed a ways into the game
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:rolleyes:


Too funny. Real serious problems you mentioned there in the first part. LOL.


And the 20 hours to get a specific car, so disgusting. Yeah, 20 hours of the Indy 500... I just threw up a bit in my mouth. :odd:
 
Hastatus
7) A-spec rubber banding requires an X1 and must occur only after the player has already progressed a ways into the game
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Not when you can practically trade anything for a X1 these days, even a lozy paint chip.
Nor do you really have to progress much into the game. One seasonal event gets you from lv1 to 20+....
 
PD should have implemented damage properly as that would negate the rubberband trick...all the wall banging would have made the wheels fall off a long time ago.

duping is blatant cheating, rubberbanding is a noob trying to grind while not there...seriously do you need to do it? It's just not something that needs to be done, it's only for those who want all the cars for nothing.
 
mickey
duping is blatant cheating
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Go dupe and see if you do better in any organized races. What someone does in single player doesn't matter. Online, duping doesn't change the fact that skill wins.

rubberbanding is a noob trying to grind while not there
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Sounds exactly like B-Spec. And B-Spec anywhere. Rubberbanding is B-Spec with a smarter driver.
 
mickey
PD should have implemented damage properly as that would negate the rubberband trick...all the wall banging would have made the wheels fall off a long time ago.
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I think it is a sad state of affairs where people are complaining that PD didn't do a feature properly not because doing the feature properly would have made the game better, but because doing the feature properly would have prevented people from playing the game the way that they want to.
 
Eh, duping to me keeps the game fresh and my PS3 fresh. I don't have to MacGyver a rubberband and a keyboard and keep my PS3 running for hours to get a rare car I find, I buy it, trade it to myself, and restore and have the car and my original money in like 1/60th the time. I don't have anything left to win except stuff it wouldn't matter for (Special challenges, licenses), I'm just trying to get cool cars at this point and this makes it much easier for me to enjoy that aspect of the game. I don't feel bad, and frankly neither should you. :)
 
I'm not surprised by such decision making by kaz...

when I heard he is planning to add feature to the game which you can go out the car and go around rather than improving the game...I already knew that the series is giving the crown to Forza or NFS Shift as the best console sim
 
Unidos
I don't view Duping as "cheating" or Rubberbanding either,
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Neither do I, which may not have been clear in my earlier post. When I say I consider them exactly the same level of "cheating", I mean that level is *zero*.
 
Some interesting responses here... a couple of which have me thinking...

For instance:

It's a matter of the time it takes.

So if somehow Duping could be locked down so that no one could do more than say 1 car every few days, would that make it less cheating as long as the process was the same? What if it also rendered your PS3 to be on and unuseable for other things for that period also?

As far as "the game allows it" is rubber banding a control stick and plugging in a keyboard with a wedge on the enter key really something we consider the game to "allow"?

I keep thinking back to moral implications, not difficulty of achievement when calling sommething a cheat...

Morally I can't see the difference between duping a car (meaning you obviously did nothing on your own to earn said car in the way of game mechanics) and rubber banding an Aspec grind (again you did nothing on your own to earn the car in terms of game mechanics).

Bspec is noteably different simply because it doesn't particularly abuse any game functions (other than the very fact that the x2010 can be entered into races ;) ) however it seems to me ultimately a case of still getting something for really doing nothing...

At the end of the day I could see each of thesse options being distilled into a button you can press and "get money/XP" and changing very little about the process ultimately other than the time/electricity used.

The "button press" may be a little more or less time consuming depending which road you go down, but ultimately is there so much difference other than that?

Surely they all bear little relation to actually participating in a race and challenging you physically and mentally to beat a reasonable competition - which I have seen argued many times as the "real" purpose of GT5.
 
Why is "Duping" so frowned upon as cheating when grinding is stupid.

There fixed it for you.
 
If the game had an extensive & varied career mode, the whole grinding issue wouldn't be such an erm.. Issue.
As it is, once you've completed all or most the events (probably setting enduro's aside for a rainy day), there's no way to earn decent cash without repeating the same races over and over or putting your ps3 out of commision by employing Bob.
Yes, there are seasonal events, but they're no replacement for a proper career mode, and are just bandaids on a broken back.

All that time spent boring yourself to death just to get cars for use in arcade, online and hotlapping... No thanks.
Personally, my duping only goes as far as backup save trading. After all, how can you build a collection if you have to lose a car for every one you gain?
For those that dupe cars to themselves, good for you. It's not your fault there's no option for saved tuning/paint setups is it?

I don't get how some people can look down on others for wanting to cut to the chase given the circumstances.
As for morality.... :lol: Really now..
 
Well me personally I have no problem with either as they both dont affect me

Im also happy to admit that yes ive duped but the cars I have are always from the UCD and always low credit rare cars meaning that I have the money to spend on the high credit rare cars available in the UCD at the same time as I hardly ever buy premium models unless really neccasary

my personal $2
 
Dupping is unnessessary and not at all in the pirit of the game. however rubber band ing has been made nessessary. Why you ask, because of poor game design forcing you to repeat section sof the game over and over again that you have all ready completed just to advance. Dupping is people just being greeded.
 
They're both cheating.

What I find interesting is that people are so quick, including the OP, to label this as a solution to a problem. The only problem here is impatience on the part of those that participate in duping and rubberbanding.

The games progression is just fine for those of us with a modicum of patience but duping is just a sad reflection on todays "Must have everything now" mentality.
 
Rylan
The games progression is just fine for those of us with a modicum of patience but duping is just a sad reflection on todays "Must have everything now" mentality.
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Let's assume that the duping is only done out of greed and impatience like you say above. What's the problem then? What makes "Must have everything now" bad? What makes "Well PD said you should have this car yet" good?

What should make me enjoy driving in circles, which is basically A-Spec, over racing, which is online.
 
PhillGuy
Dupping is unnessessary and not at all in the pirit of the game. however rubber band ing has been made nessessary. Why you ask, because of poor game design forcing you to repeat section sof the game over and over again that you have all ready completed just to advance. Dupping is people just being greeded.
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That really doesn't make very much sense. Duping is greedy, but rubberbanding isn't? Really? Rubberbanding is just another form of being "greedy" - wanting to advance, and not wanting to actually put in the time and effort to do so.
 
Kwicko
That really doesn't make very much sense. Duping is greedy, but rubberbanding isn't? Really? Rubberbanding is just another form of being "greedy" - wanting to advance, and not wanting to actually put in the time and effort to do so.
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Rubber banding indy generates so much cash. Leave it on overnight and in a few hours, its +80k every 4min for hours.
 
People really should stop talking about 'morals'. Morals are for the real world, not for a game in which the outcomes of your 'moral' choices affect only yourself.

Count me as one immoral action replay user and previous GT license skipper.
 
I don't really understand what's wrong with duping cars. All I was doing to earn credits was running my B-spec guys through the Dream Car Championship, over and over and over. Just check in every 15 minutes or so, press X, X, down arrow, X, then wait for the next race to load, and press X again. That is NOT playing a video game. Duping is just a method of eliminating that boring non-gaming method of earning credits with another boring, non-gaming method that's less time consuming. It's not the players fault that many cars are ridiculously expensive and require a person to complete the highest paying races a stupendous amount of times in a row. It's not the players fault that the whole thing is so screwed up, un-fun, boring, infinitely repetitive, etc. etc. etc.
 
Rubberbanding isn’t considered “cheating” so you have someone to laugh at for running their PS3 for 20+ hours when they could have done it in one. Two different exploits, same net result. I guess they think if they use the lesser of the two they’re less guilty. All silly, since if you were any good and knew how to enjoy the game you wouldn’t need to do either (I am not one of these people, sadly, but I don’t BS myself).
 
Neocodex
Rubber banding indy generates so much cash. Leave it on overnight and in a few hours, its +80k every 4min for hours.
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Isn't it +117k/4min? Heck, even at 80k/4min, that's 1.2 million per hour. Leave it for 8 hours, you've got 9.6 million credits. Less than a full day, you're sitting at 20 million.

How long did I have to grind B-spec to get that much cash?

See, "rubberbanding" basically limits you to one 20m car per day. Oddly enough, so does duping.

They really do sound remarkably similar in both intent and outcome. :)

Duping = Getting something for pushing a button.

Rubberbanding = Getting something for keeping a couple buttons pushed.

B-Spec Grinding = Getting something for pushing a button.
 
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