Why is "Duping" so frowned upon as cheating when rubberband grinding is fine?

[Exorcet]

personally...

i do not condone duping, and view it as blatant cheating.

(seriously, if you choose to accumulate/progress through the game outside of the game itself, then you're not playing the game to accumulate/progress through the game, and just cheating...)

i think rigging things up with rubber bands, while legitimate (albeit a bit shady) as at least it's in-game activity, is totally stoopid.

(i mean, seriously, why go through all those silly steps and that awkward set-up when you can just farm b-spec? yeah, it probably takes a bit longer, but repeatedly running the same races in b-spec an element inherent to the game that's necessary for advancement/completion, as anyone who's reached level 40 in b-spec can attest to...)

for a-spec, you're the driver. why would want to advance in the game without doing the driving?

(i've only paused my a-spec advancement because i'm having issues with a proper/stable/working set-up for my dfgt wheel. i switched to b-spec to keep enjoying the game, and now that i've played through and reached level 40, i find it's a great in-game means to continue progress towards legitimately obtaining one each of the 1,000+ cars...)

if you want to play through the entire game and legitimately earn that platimun trophy, it's a serious development of skills and investment of time - with lots of direct interaction with the game for the parts of the game where you're the driver, and a serious investment of time - with less direct interaction with the game - for the parts of the game where you're not the driver. it takes both to completely play through the game, and there's just no way around that.

in summary...
play the game as best suits your life, your opportunity to play, and your skills, but actually play the 🤬 game and steer clear of loopholes!
👍

Posts like this just miss the point. I dupe not for progress. The in game progress means nothing to me. Absolutely zero. My A-Spec level is higher than my complete %. I'm the highest level on my friend's list with the smallest % and least trophies. Non sense like that has serves no purpose IMO. GT5 is for racing, and I'll do whatever it takes to spend more time racing.

I don't do either for what it's worth, I think they're both a waste of time that could be spent actually playing the game, but that's my opinion.

See the above.

 

[TheCracker]

rubber band takes time to get money , stupid dupers trade car with other ppl , so you see a car that took hours for you to win duped in seconds by many noobs.

Maybe those people who spent hours playing to win a car, talking about prize cars here obviously, don't want that car so trade it with someone who does want it?

Trading and duping cars doesn't effect anyone else's game - so why get worked up about it?

 

[Le Mans 88]

Sorry to be blunt but some people need to get a ******* life and let those who want to drive and tune cars get on with it.

All of this restricted save garbage is down to gamers and their trophies, levels and other such tedious crap.

As for those claiming duping ruins the longivity of the game what planet are they on, the fun in GT5 comes from fine tuning your cars spec, set-up and perfecting your driving lines and race craft, not earning bloody credits to reach another artificial target.

 

[B Quiet N Drive]

Because non dupers love to ride their high and mighty horse of righteousness. They always will.

 

[vrooom]

As long as PD doesn't unlock all cars (or at least all cars corresponding to your A-Spec level) in arcade mode I will continue to dupe since it's the fastest way to get the cars I wont to test drive on Nordschleife.

I don't care about my A-Spec level, B-Spec level, completion percent or trophies. I see GT5 as a driving game and not as an RPG game. Duping is the only way I can continue to have fun with GT5. If there wasn't duping I would have already quit playing due to the horrible grinding.

 

[BTBAM]

Why do you even care what other people think of how you play?
I couldn't care less.
Life is full of choices.
Some of us buy a 20mil car then dupe it and buy another.
Some like to grind Daytona 200 times. I personally have better things to do with my time.

 

[Mach2Escudo]

Im a Duper and don't see what the big deal is, its my game, console, tv, broadband all bought and paid for and will do with it what i wish.
I just want to drive the cars now, not in 6 months after grinding the Indy for 10000 hours!
Each to there own.
Peace.

 

[nik99]

... I'm still waiting for you to explain how an advantage is gained. So far, the best you've come up with is bragging and trophies...

I used the birthday glitch/dupe to get myself a 1967 Mark IV Race Car.

After several attempts and a little tinkering with the suspension settings, I was finally able to win the first race in the Historic Cup.

I would have never been able to win this race with the 1962 Buick Special or the 1970 Challenger or any of the other cars in my garage.

I can't describe how much fun I had winning this race; I figured out how I could go faster without the driving aids and before last night I had never improved a cars handling without looking up the settings on the internet.

The advantage I got from duping is not having to do the American Championship Indy Race 180 times to drive this fantastic car.
Oh, and I won the 'Dream Race' trophy as well.

 

[tigermilk]

Neither are examples of cheating.

Both are examples of poor programming, a lack of a good contact physics model, and inability to implement damage of any sort.

They are examples of the ineptitude of PD and Sony.

 

[Devedander]

The game was released not even three months ago, there is plenty of time to own all cars you like one day (YEARS!)! Why hurry so much?!?! I don't need to...

I think many people fail to make the distinction between grinding/skipping repetitive parts of the game to get something faster vs just bypassing something you don't like.

Take for instance BFBC2. I play that game a LOT. I am only a level 30something and far from whatever the top level with all the unlocks is. And I don't mind that it's taken me months and months to get where I am and will take me months more to get the rest of the way... becuase it's fun the whole way. I enjoy every game I play... the journey is fun so the destination is indeed something that just will come with time.

Or Counter Strike. I played that for YEARS and there wasn't even ever anything to unlock. Other than game updates, my weapons selection was the same 3 years in as it was day 1.

I built towers in Sim Tower that took days and weeks, Sim City (oh God the time sink) obviously patience is not a problem as long as the thing you do is interesting.

With GT5 the grinding is not (for me) so much a matter of time invested as it is that that time is not enjoyable. After doing a race a few dozen times against the same AI I am burnt out on it. It's just not fun anymore.

Whether it was a few weeks of grinding or a few years of grinding, I personally don't see it as a "must have now" issue, but rather as a "I am not interested in doing it anymore" issue.

I haven't even logged into GT5 more than twice in the last few weeks... and when I think about turning it on for a race all I can think about is "loading screens and grinding".

Many have mentioned going back to FM3 because the career mode was so long and varied that it stays fun for a long time... they are playing through multiple seasons... obviously it's not a matter of no patience... or they wouldn't be doing that.

So I have to wonder, to all who assume those who "cheat" do so because they have no patience and just "want it now", what would you think if your assumption was wrong and they "cheat" not because they are impatient, but because the options available to them just aren't fun regardless of how long they would take to get through? What if the reason for "cheating" wasn't greed and impatience, but rather that if they don't do it, they will pretty much be left with the option of not playing the game anymore because there is just nothing interesting left for them?

 

[Ya Pops]

nik99, good on you mate 👍

It should be about having fun, and the guys that harp on about cheating lowlifes like you & I consistently come across as the most miserable amongst us.. Funny how that works eh?

Then again, they do say bad guys have all the fun.. *cue maniacal laughter*

 

[tigermilk]

With GT5 the grinding is not (for me) so much a matter of time invested as it is that that time is not enjoyable. After doing a race a few dozen times against the same AI I am burnt out on it. It's just not fun anymore.

Many have mentioned going back to FM3 because the career mode was so long and varied that it stays fun for a long time... they are playing through multiple seasons... obviously it's not a matter of no patience... or they wouldn't be doing that.

Agree with these sentiments. The AI just isn't challenging in GT5, and the races feel the same. Heck, I pulled GT5 out again last night after some 2 weeks of not playing just to see how arcade mode was. Even at the "pro" level the game is a cake walk. It's just not challenging or fun. The ONLY reason I've been playing it the last month has been the seasonal event races.

FM3 has its own form of grinding, which is the lengthy seasons. But still the AI is much better. I play it with the AI at the hardest level and it can be a real challenge.

 

[StingrayX]

I agree with earlier posters...dupers and rubber banders are for the people who are impatient and want the cars a.s.a.p. As for many GT fans who are patient and enjoy the game as it comes...

 

[strngz0731]

Posts like this just miss the point. I dupe not for progress. The in game progress means nothing to me. Absolutely zero. My A-Spec level is higher than my complete %. I'm the highest level on my friend's list with the smallest % and least trophies. Non sense like that has serves no purpose IMO. GT5 is for racing, and I'll do whatever it takes to spend more time racing.

Well, I will agree that duping is not for progress - of anything. All you get with duping is duplicate cars...


However, instead of spending more time playing the game and racing to unlock cars and earn credits to buy cars what you're doing to spend more time racing is spending the time it takes to dupe cars?


Hey, if there's a point to that, I do believe I'm glad I'm missing it.

 

[Ya Pops]

Does that mean we're not GT fans StingrayX?

As said before, just playing the game without a great deal of repetiton won't get you the cars.
A little repetition wouldn't be such a bad thing, but the current amount that's required is frankly ridiculous.

If I wanted say, a P4, a Miura, an FGT and a 787B, what would I have to do and how long would it take by just playing the game without repeating the same events over & over? After that, what if I wanted some other very expensive cars?

 

[Devedander]

Well, I will agree that duping is not for progress - of anything. All you get with duping is duplicate cars...


However, instead of spending more time playing the game and racing to unlock cars and earn credits to buy cars what you're doing to spend more time racing is spending the time it takes to dupe cars?


Hey, if there's a point to that, I do believe I'm glad I'm missing it.

I believe you may not understand how people use duping... sometimes people use duping just to get more of the same car so they can trade or give them to others, but another common use of duping is to keep your Cr AND buy a car.

So let's say you have $6mill and you want an FGT. Duping makes it possible to buy the FGT but still have $6mil afterwards.

So when you ask why spend time duping instead of racing to earn cars, I think many people do becuase:

1: Duping lets you spend more time racing the races you WANT to race for fun instead of the races you HAVE to race in order to earn money at any decent rate.

2: In a purely time/return ratio duping obviously has the upper hand

 

[JeffKill]

Well, I will agree that duping is not for progress - of anything. All you get with duping is duplicate cars...

I think you're confused as to why most people "dupe". You can dupe to either a.) keep you credits after buying a new car, or b.) keep you car while trading.

People aren't "duping" to have multiple copies of the same car. And it takes very little time to back up your save and reload it, so it isn't very time consuming.

 

[Exorcet]

strngz0731, it goes back to what Devedander said on the last page. The only thing that I consider racing in GT5 is online racing. The hardest part of A-Spec is not winning, but making races reasonable. I tried, but even being a worse car doesn't make the AI competitive. If I have to spend more time making the AI competitive than actually racing (for all of 5 laps...) then how am I supposed to enjoy GT5 offline?

You're right, duping takes time away that I could be using to play A-Spec and earn money. But I don't want to go near A-Spec. The only reason I ever go into GT Mode (not counting when I go straight from the main menu to online) is to get cars for online. So I either have the choice of spending hours watching paint dry to earn credits, or spending minutes restoring saves before heading online.

It's not about impatience at all. GT Mode isn't a game. It's a chore. I have no problems flying 500 miles over the course of 2 hours in my flight simulators before I even see another plane to shoot at before flying 500 miles back home. I actually tend to make longer more "boring" missions than the ones that come with the game/sim. The difference is, the flight simulators make you want to play. Excluding online, GT5 makes you want to sell your PS3 and question why you bought one in the first place.

 

[strngz0731]

Ah, now I understand a little better, I think...

strngz0731, it goes back to what Devedander said on the last page. The only thing that I consider racing in GT5 is online racing. The hardest part of A-Spec is not winning, but making races reasonable. I tried, but even being a worse car doesn't make the AI competitive. If I have to spend more time making the AI competitive than actually racing (for all of 5 laps...) then how am I supposed to enjoy GT5 offline?

You're right, duping takes time away that I could be using to play A-Spec and earn money. But I don't want to go near A-Spec. The only reason I ever go into GT Mode (not counting when I go straight from the main menu to online) is to get cars for online. So I either have the choice of spending hours watching paint dry to earn credits, or spending minutes restoring saves before heading online.

It's not about impatience at all. GT Mode isn't a game. It's a chore. I have no problems flying 500 miles over the course of 2 hours in my flight simulators before I even see another plane to shoot at before flying 500 miles back home. I actually tend to make longer more "boring" missions than the ones that come with the game/sim. The difference is, the flight simulators make you want to play. Excluding online, GT5 makes you want to sell your PS3 and question why you bought one in the first place.

If all you want is online racing, Exorcet, go play iRacing or something.
Wait, I believe you can't just dupe your way into getting all the content for nothing, so maybe you should stick with GT5...

I think you're confused as to why most people "dupe". You can dupe to either a.) keep you credits after buying a new car, or b.) keep you car while trading.

People aren't "duping" to have multiple copies of the same car. And it takes very little time to back up your save and reload it, so it isn't very time consuming.

Regardless of the amount of time, JeffKill, it's still time that can't also be spent playing/racing/whatever, right?
I really doubt the intended design of the game was to dupe content so people could get what they wanted either faster and/or for nothing. I'm pretty sure the intended design of the game was to play through the game...

I believe you may not understand how people use duping... sometimes people use duping just to get more of the same car so they can trade or give them to others, but another common use of duping is to keep your Cr AND buy a car.

So let's say you have $6mill and you want an FGT. Duping makes it possible to buy the FGT but still have $6mil afterwards.

So when you ask why spend time duping instead of racing to earn cars, I think many people do becuase:

1: Duping lets you spend more time racing the races you WANT to race for fun instead of the races you HAVE to race in order to earn money at any decent rate.

2: In a purely time/return ratio duping obviously has the upper hand

It's that 'time/return' philisophy, Devedander, that is exactly what I disagree with.
If one spends the time to earn something, they return with what they've earned. With that logic, robbing a bank has a much better 'time/return' ratio than working at a job for making money, no?

Hey, everybody, play the game however the 🤬 you want to and enjoy it.
I'll play the game as it was designed and without taking advantage of the loopholes that unfortunately exist and enjoy it.
Let's all remember that it's just a video game, which is why <maybe it's guilt> I can't understand why <guilty> so many people feel the need <guilty> to justify and <guilty> rationalize why they <guilty> dupe.
It doesn't negatively impact me beyond the principle of it, so dupe until you can't dupe no more. Sure would blow chunks if a future update to the game changed things, wouldn't it?
(I will just end by saying that, in carrying with the 'time/return' philosophy, if you don't want to spend the time playing the game as it was intended, maybe you should return to the store you bought the game at and trade it in for something that's more to your liking...)

 

[Tornado]

Sure would blow chunks if a future update to the game changed things, wouldn't it?

If PD patched the exploit without doing anything about the reason that people do it? Absolutely.

maybe you should return to the store you bought the game at and trade it in for something that's more to your liking...)

Or, maybe PD shouldn't have screwed up the GT Life mode in the first place.
💡

 

[JeffKill]

Regardless of the amount of time, JeffKill, it's still time that can't also be spent playing/racing/whatever, right?
I really doubt the intended design of the game was to dupe content so people could get what they wanted either faster and/or for nothing. I'm pretty sure the intended design of the game was to play through the game...

I spend plenty of time driving and racing still. Only difference is, I only spend 5 minutes to buy a car that costs millions of credits, instead of waiting till I build my credits up to that point again.

I've earned over 18 million credits now through racing A & B spec. I've completed everything in the game other than the endurance races (as I don't have the time). Now I just enjoy buying new cars, then tuning and testing them on different tracks. I don't care to go back through and repeat the races that I've already completed. I'd rather get in a new car and just drive. 👍

 

[Ya Pops]

Hey, everybody, play the game however the 🤬 you want to and enjoy it.
I'll play the game as it was designed and without taking advantage of the loopholes that unfortunately exist and enjoy it.
Let's all remember that it's just a video game, which is why <maybe it's guilt> I can't understand why <guilty> so many people feel the need <guilty> to justify and <guilty> rationalize why they <guilty> dupe.
It doesn't negatively impact me beyond the principle of it, so dupe until you can't dupe no more. Sure would blow chunks if a future update to the game changed things, wouldn't it?
(I will just end by saying that, in carrying with the 'time/return' philosophy, if you don't want to spend the time playing the game as it was intended, maybe you should return to the store you bought the game at and trade it in for something that's more to your liking...)

If it makes you feel better to think this, good for you 👍

 

[ara]

I think many people fail to make the distinction between grinding/skipping repetitive parts of the game to get something faster vs just bypassing something you don't like.

How is exploiting a system to "skip repetitive parts of the game" in fact different from exploiting a system to "bypass something you don't like"

 

[Hastatus]

I agree with earlier posters...dupers and rubber banders are for the people who are impatient and want the cars a.s.a.p. As for many GT fans who are patient and enjoy the game as it comes...

Perhaps some people want the cars. I myself do the rubberband thing mostly for the XP (the cars I buy are a happy by-product). I want to race the 24 hour Nurburgring. I have tried to race it online some: I once had a room with 10 people or so and accidentally had the laps left at 7 or 8 and only 3 people stayed until the end: I guess they didn't like the rain or darkness. Anyways I never grinded until I got to level 36 following the Le Mans 24 hour. If the Nurburgring had been a level 36 race I wouldn't have had to grind, but alas it took me two weeks of rubberband grinding at night and during the day in order to unlock that race. If I hadn't grinded I don't think I would have unlocked the race before I got mega-bored with the single-player game. Now I have it unlocked and will be able to race it whenever I find the time in my schedule rather than when PD thinks I should race it: 2012 or so. Given the massive undertaking the endurance races themselves are, there really is no need to have such an exponentially massive undertaking just to unlock them. Back to my point though...if 24H Ring were a level 36 race I wouldn't have grinded with the rubberband beyond that race. I had most of the cars I wanted well before I started rubberbanding (WITHOUT DUPING).

 

[TAZ71]

I think that grinding is a necessity in this completely twisted game(Don´t take me wrong I like it very much) because currently I´m on Bspec level 30 and 1/2(Already with grind) and, I´ve done every little thing i could do in Spec B, and the next Race is Level 32, without grinding I won´t be able to do it, if we think of this, this game needs serious update because someone in PD has done the math completely wrong.
Duping cars is a diferent story, but for me I don´t see it as bad as others, duping doesn´t hurt anyone so, no problem to me.
For me if the next update doesn´t solve this I´ll not get to Level 40 in Aspec because I wont have the time(no save in endurance races) to do 24hours races several times because I don´t have the time to play every single day, and when I play, i only manage 2 or 3 hours at max, so my PS3 would have to be on and dedicated to GT5 for maybe 2 weeks, and that for me is a complete absurd.

 

[strngz0731]

If it makes you feel better to think this, good for you 👍

Nope, it really doesn't make me feel better, but thanks for your support...

 

[strngz0731]

I spend plenty of time driving and racing still. Only difference is, I only spend 5 minutes to buy a car that costs millions of credits, instead of waiting till I build my credits up to that point again.

I've earned over 18 million credits now through racing A & B spec. I've completed everything in the game other than the endurance races (as I don't have the time). Now I just enjoy buying new cars, then tuning and testing them on different tracks. I don't care to go back through and repeat the races that I've already completed. I'd rather get in a new car and just drive. 👍

I applaude the effort you've put into the game.
Part of what gets me about all of this is that there's got to be far too many folks out there that are into duping but haven't invested that level of play on the game.
The other part that gets me is that, even with the effort you've spent, you're still getting something you want faster and/or for nothing.

 

[strngz0731]

If PD patched the exploit without doing anything about the reason that people do it? Absolutely.


Or, maybe PD shouldn't have screwed up the GT Life mode in the first place.
💡

If you got that much of a problem with the game, and I can't or won't argue with anyone having a problem with the game because GT5 is riddled with issues and flaws...

If you got that much of a problem with the game that you can't play it as designed and intended without exploiting loopholes, then just turn the game off and go play something else.
💡

 

[Exorcet]

If all you want is online racing, Exorcet, go play iRacing or something.

Why? I can essentially play online only races in GT. I just need to dupe.

If you got that much of a problem with the game that you can't play it as designed and intended

And what logic makes it such that playing as intended is the right way to play?

 

[Ya Pops]

The other part that gets me is that, even with the effort you've spent, you're still getting something you want faster and/or for nothing.

What difference does it make to you and your experience of the game?

If you got that much of a problem with the game, and I can't or won't argue with anyone having a problem with the game because GT5 is riddled with issues and flaws...

If you got that much of a problem with the game that you can't play it as designed and intended without exploiting loopholes, then just turn the game off and go play something else.
💡

You forgot to tell him to go play NFS.

Hey, everybody, play the game however the 🤬 you want to and enjoy it.

THAT'S more like it 👍