Why is "Duping" so frowned upon as cheating when rubberband grinding is fine?

[DOUQA]

I don't get how some people can look down on others for wanting to cut to the chase given the circumstances.
As for morality.... Really now..

This!

 

[African Kat]

Theres always gonna be mixed opinions on open forums - i think if u paid for the game, the ps3 and internet u did it cause u wer looking for lasting enjoyment. Some ppl start losing enjoyment when they have to grind way too much to buy a super high priced car like the muira. So trading and duping cars for them keeps things fresh i guess.

It doesnt bother me much

 

[Rylan]

What makes "Well PD said you should (sic) have this car yet" good?

It's not about "good". It's about the design and implementation of the game by the developers. It's the same as Core Design saying that you don't get to fight Jacqueline Natla until you've finished the rest of Tomb Raider. or by saying you can't have the Rocket Launcher in GTA3 until you've done the missions which unlock it. If you don't like it your option is that you just don't have to buy the game.

Sure, you can bypass it by entering in something, strangely enough, called a 'cheat" but at least call a spade a spade. It would be one thing to say "I cheat" but something entirely different to pretend PD designed it this way.

They've been very good about it. They put in a levelling system for those that wanted to go down the career path, they added something like 50 or 60 cars for those that just wanted to jump right in to arcade mode. When things needed tuning they implemented seasonals to give players extra money.

What they also did was give you a save feature so you can back up your career and you reward them by exploiting a feature they didn't have to give you. This is how it affects us all because gaming companies are less likely to do those things in future knowing that people will exploit it.

It affects us all when exploiters go online and race the cars they haven't 'earnt' ( and I do use that loosely when it comes to a game, or when they brag about their progress on a forum, or show off their trophies ( which Sony take very seriously ) or destroy the trading part of the game by devaluing cars or when PD or any other manufacturer thinks "**** it! Let's not bother with a save feature because it will just get abused".

The ramifications of cheating go far beyond that one person sat in their chair thinking about only themselves.

 

[Brend]

I wonder...see these people who do the rubber-band grind etc. so they can drive the cars...would they still do these things if there was a test drive feature where you can drive the cars or even better drive them in arcade mode? Anyways as the user above stated trophies are a main concren here as Sony is known to be very stern about trophies are used and collected...

 

[TheCracker]

Duplicating cars isn't cheating because it doesn't get you any further in the game, it only adds cars to your garage (or PSN friend's garages). You really have to have earned the money in the first place to buy any car worth duping. Most of the decent cars have very little or no re-sale value, so you either end up with multiple versions of the same car, or you swap one with a friend to get a different one for your collection. Collecting cars is one of GT's selling points. Duping is just one way of doing this quicker.

Rubber banding on the other hand, can be used to gain A and B spec points, therefore getting you further through the game.

Neither method can be considered 'in the spirit' of how the game was envisioned to be played. But since there are a limited amount of races available to be run, and since some of the more desirable cars available can cost between 5 and 20 million credits, 'cheats' like these allow those of us who neither have the time or inclination to play the game for 6 hours a day, every day to get those precious cars/A & B spec points that we'd otherwise never have the opportunity to gain.

 

[Luminis]

But since there are a limited amount of races available to be run, and since some of the more desirable cars available can cost between 5 and 20 million credits, 'cheats' like these allow those of us who neither have the time or inclination to play the game for 6 hours a day, every day to get those precious cars/A & B spec points that we'd otherwise never have the opportunity to gain.

I, personally, frown upon all of those methods equally
But, as I said, if someone feels tthe need to do so, well, whatever floats their boat.

As long as people don't start to claim that you can't have a life if you're playing GT5 without duping/glitching/rubber banding/cheating/whatever, I don't care.
Happens quite often, though

See, that's basically what I'm talking about. You don't need to play for six hours a day, every day to get somewhere in the game. You need to do so if you want to get somewhere in a week or two, and that's it.

 

[Tornado]

The games progression is just fine for those of us with a modicum of patience

That sounds like a problem in and of itself.

 

[Luminis]

That sounds like a problem in and of itself.

Yeah, patience is something a game's developer shouldn't presume these days. Not gonna work.

 

[gambleboyen]

Is reaching level 40 by purely playing the sunday cup also cheating?

Because that's not the way is meant to be played.

BTW, I've neither duped nor rubberbanded, although I let bob grind money for me.

 

[Ya Pops]

It's not about "good". It's about the design and implementation of the game by the developers. It's the same as Core Design saying that you don't get to fight Jacqueline Natla until you've finished the rest of Tomb Raider. or by saying you can't have the Rocket Launcher in GTA3 until you've done the missions which unlock it. If you don't like it your option is that you just don't have to buy the game.

Or you can... v

Sure, you can bypass it by entering in something, strangely enough, called a 'cheat" but at least call a spade a spade. It would be one thing to say "I cheat" but something entirely different to pretend PD designed it this way.

Cheats which give you all weapons in GTA are created, and 'leaked' by the developers in the first place. Bad example mate

They've been very good about it. They put in a levelling system for those that wanted to go down the career path, they added something like 50 or 60 cars for those that just wanted to jump right in to arcade mode. When things needed tuning they implemented seasonals to give players extra money.

I'd argue that they added seasonals to make up for providing a pretty poor career mode with a distinct shortage of events . The large cash bonus for the seasonals is an answer to complaints about having to grind for cash.

What they also did was give you a save feature so you can back up your career and you reward them by exploiting a feature they didn't have to give you. This is how it affects us all because gaming companies are less likely to do those things in future knowing that people will exploit it.

Are you really suggesting that PD are unable to stop people duping, or were unaware that it would be possible in the first place and that other games companies will stop allowing you to backup a save because they don't know how to make it secure?

It affects us all when exploiters go online and race the cars they haven't 'earnt' ( and I do use that loosely when it comes to a game, or when they brag about their progress on a forum, or show off their trophies ( which Sony take very seriously ) or destroy the trading part of the game by devaluing cars or when PD or any other manufacturer thinks "**** it! Let's not bother with a save feature because it will just get abused".

Please explain how it affects you when someone uses a car they haven't 'earnt'.
Trophies? lol.. Bragging about their progress? lol... How do these two 'issues' affect your ability to win a race? How many trophies do you get for duping btw?
There is no marketplace or trading part of the game. There is a gifting feature, nothing more.
Where is your evidence to support this theory about games developers giving up on save features?

The ramifications of cheating go far beyond that one person sat in their chair thinking about only themselves.

I'm all ears.

 

[Luminis]

Is reaching level 40 by purely playing the sunday cup also cheating?

Because that's not the way is meant to be played.

Well... Considering the amount of XP you get from the Sunday Cup and the amount of XP needed to get to level 40... I think it becomes a non issue, purely because of the time needed.

I doubt anyone's masochistic enough to actually do that

 

[Tornado]

It's not about "good". It's about the design and implementation of the game by the developers. It's the same as Core Design saying that you don't get to fight Jacqueline Natla until you've finished the rest of Tomb Raider. or by saying you can't have the Rocket Launcher in GTA3 until you've done the missions which unlock it. If you don't like it your option is that you just don't have to buy the game.

And people probably wouldn't be so worried about bypassing the intended progression if the intended progression itself wasn't so completely incompatible with previous entries in the franchise. That's PD's fault. Not the fault of people trying to get around it.

It affects us all when exploiters go online and race the cars they haven't 'earnt' ( and I do use that loosely when it comes to a game, or when they brag about their progress on a forum, or show off their trophies ( which Sony take very seriously )

You see, this literally makes no difference:

• If you are worried that griefers getting good cars can ruin online play because it is easy for them to get good cars to abuse, here is some relevant info: I could just B-Spec like crazy to get the money to buy them.
• If you are worried that bad drivers could get good cars and lead to poor races, here is some relevant info: I could just B-Spec like crazy and obtain those awesome cars without turning a wheel in the game.
• If you are worried that you may be beat by a good driver who obtained similar cars to you illegitimately, here is some relevant info: You aren't interested in having a good race with someone. You only care about winning.

or destroy the trading part of the game by devaluing cars

Using trading as a reason against duping is invalid because trading is a nonexistent feature.

or when PD or any other manufacturer thinks "**** it! Let's not bother with a save feature because it will just get abused".

Or they could just patch the exploit.

The ramifications of cheating go far beyond that one person sat in their chair thinking about only themselves.

So come up with an actual reason that proves this.

Yeah, patience is something a game's developer shouldn't presume these days. Not gonna work.

That's not what I meant. I meant that you can't blame lack of patience as being a fault of the people playing the game if you were the one that drastically changed the game design so that it required patience.
PD changed their massively open-ended GT Mode of the first four games into the comically linear GT Life mode of GT5. PD should not only not be surprised that people are trying so hard to sequence break, but they should have expected it.

 

[Exorcet]

It's not about "good". It's about the design and implementation of the game by the developers. It's the same as Core Design saying that you don't get to fight Jacqueline Natla until you've finished the rest of Tomb Raider. or by saying you can't have the Rocket Launcher in GTA3 until you've done the missions which unlock it. If you don't like it your option is that you just don't have to buy the game.

Yes, it's all the same. But I'm not limited to just not buying the game. I can exploit it and make it fun. No real reason not to do that. However the devs wanted me to play is not a binding factor at all. No matter what they intended, I'm free to do what I want as long as I don't interfere with others.

Sure, you can bypass it by entering in something, strangely enough, called a 'cheat" but at least call a spade a spade. It would be one thing to say "I cheat" but something entirely different to pretend PD designed it this way.

I'm not bound to misuse the word cheat just because other people do. They call them cheat codes, doesn't make them cheating. Unless you have an unfair advantage (which automatically implies that there is a second person somewhere) it's not cheating. This makes single player uncheatable. Multiplayer is very cheatable, but I don't see duping's advantage. My car is restricted just like everyone else's online.

They've been very good about it. They put in a levelling system for those that wanted to go down the career path, they added something like 50 or 60 cars for those that just wanted to jump right in to arcade mode. When things needed tuning they implemented seasonals to give players extra money.

OK, but I'd like more than 50 or 60 cars, or at least I'd like be able to choose what car I want to drive. Arcade mode and its car list is very limited. It's not as fun as having a huge garage with tuneable cars etc, and the arcade race cars are particularly bad because they are all about set ups. Why should I have to go buy them just to use them properly? It makes no sense, especially if I don't find the quest to unlock them exciting or meaningful at all.

What they also did was give you a save feature so you can back up your career and you reward them by exploiting a feature they didn't have to give you. This is how it affects us all because gaming companies are less likely to do those things in future knowing that people will exploit it.

Or maybe they'll get the point and see that credits are not fun, and they'll make the whole credit thing optional next time.

It affects us all when exploiters go online and race the cars they haven't 'earnt' ( and I do use that loosely when it comes to a game, or when they brag about their progress on a forum, or show off their trophies ( which Sony take very seriously ) or destroy the trading part of the game by devaluing cars or when PD or any other manufacturer thinks "**** it! Let's not bother with a save feature because it will just get abused".

Trading is as much as a cheat as duping, completely invented by the players. It was never destroyed. Duping probably helped it. Bragging or showing off is not a necessary outcome of duping, and if anything dupers probably care less about trophies than "legit" players. At least anyone with my mindset would. As for how dupers bringing their cars online effects you, I doubt that you would ever be able to identify a duper from a non duper just by meeting them online. You would only know if they told you.

The ramifications of cheating go far beyond that one person sat in their chair thinking about only themselves.

If I was thinking about myself alone, I wouldn't have given out free cars and limited my trades to 1:1 exchanges when people were offering me more. Duping isn't selfishness either. There is nothing wrong with completely ignoring PD's intentions on how you should play the game. That decision is up to the player and the player alone.

 

[KippCorona]

It's a decision everyone has to make for himself...

To me it's part of the game and part of the fun I have to play and to someday earn or be in the position to buy a certain car. Many other games offer you to earn the unlockables for a few bucks on PSN (Tiger Woods, BF:BC2, etc.) but I never did it because it takes away the fun I have with gaming.

If people do not have the patience to play until they get what they earned - I don't care. To me it's just nonsense to cheat by duping or rubber grinding... I feel a little bit sorry for those who cannot wait and earn the prize by the way it's meant to be. And to be honest, the usual excuse "I don't have the time..." doesn't count! I have a job, a girlfriend (time consuming!) and many other things I like doing. The game was released not even three months ago, there is plenty of time to own all cars you like one day (YEARS!)! Why hurry so much?!?! I don't need to... If you have got all the cars so fast and easily, do you really drive them all? Do you really dig into tuning and checking out, what car fits your expectations and your driving style? I don't think so...

My pleasure with GT5 is not biased by such behaviour. Let them do what they want... So for me it's not even cheating it's just stealing your own fun!

It's simply not the way I wanna play it!

 

[CeeJay]

This is all so confusing! PD needs to release a moral code for us all to follow so we can be sure we're not breaking any rules!

 

[Rylan]

Cheats which give you all weapons in GTA are created, and 'leaked' by the developers in the first place. Bad example mate

I think it's a perfectly good example. The fact that a developer publishes a cheat doesn't stop it from being cheating. The sad mistake is that sometime in the late 90's someone began to label them as 'secrets' so as not to prejudice their games.

I'd argue that they added seasonals to make up for providing a pretty poor career mode. The large cash bonus for the seasonals is an answer to complaints about having to grind for cash.

I agree they implemented them for exactly that reason and I'm not making any assertations as to whether the balance is correct but then again neither are you. We're simply taking about whether it's cheating or not, whether it affects others, and the hypothetical debate of "Can you cheat at solitaire?"

The seasonals provide more than enough to build up a varied selection of cars and as a result the exploiting isn't necessary at all. As I said earlier is merely indicative of todays self-entitled society.

Are you really suggesting that PD are unable to stop people duping, or were unaware that it would be possible in the first place and that other games companies will stop allowing you to backup a save because they don't know how to make it secure?

No. Not at all. They gave players the ability to save their progress in response to a large number of complaints from people who put many hours into the game only to lose it.

Marking the save file as exportable was a tick in a box. Implementing a proper, anti-duping system takes time and I believe this exploitation is the reaction to a kneejerk fix on PDs part. A longer term solution will likely involve the server capturing your trades and comparing them against your progress file.

I expect to see anti-duping implemented in a forthcoming patch. The real question is whether PD will take the number of self-confessed dupers as reason enough to change the levelling system.


The true costs of duping in GT5 will not become clear until someone, whether it be PD, Sony, or other developers take action upon it and all of us, even those of us who do not cheat, have to live with whatever those consequence, whatever they may be. Hopefully we'll escape unscathed.

The sad thing you won't ever understand though is that, although we're likely to be affected, the people most affected are the ones posting here and here claiming they're bored of the game.

When you started duping you removed your incentive.

This is all so confusing! PD needs to release a moral code for us all to follow so we can be sure we're not breaking any rules!

Don't wait for a moral code from PD. Make a decision you feel comfortable with but remember that the choices you make in life, or in a game, reflect upon your character.

 

[strngz0731]

personally...

i do not condone duping, and view it as blatant cheating.

(seriously, if you choose to accumulate/progress through the game outside of the game itself, then you're not playing the game to accumulate/progress through the game, and just cheating...)

i think rigging things up with rubber bands, while legitimate (albeit a bit shady) as at least it's in-game activity, is totally stoopid.

(i mean, seriously, why go through all those silly steps and that awkward set-up when you can just farm b-spec? yeah, it probably takes a bit longer, but repeatedly running the same races in b-spec an element inherent to the game that's necessary for advancement/completion, as anyone who's reached level 40 in b-spec can attest to...)

for a-spec, you're the driver. why would want to advance in the game without doing the driving?

(i've only paused my a-spec advancement because i'm having issues with a proper/stable/working set-up for my dfgt wheel. i switched to b-spec to keep enjoying the game, and now that i've played through and reached level 40, i find it's a great in-game means to continue progress towards legitimately obtaining one each of the 1,000+ cars...)

if you want to play through the entire game and legitimately earn that platimun trophy, it's a serious development of skills and investment of time - with lots of direct interaction with the game for the parts of the game where you're the driver, and a serious investment of time - with less direct interaction with the game - for the parts of the game where you're not the driver. it takes both to completely play through the game, and there's just no way around that.

in summary...
play the game as best suits your life, your opportunity to play, and your skills, but actually play the 🤬 game and steer clear of loopholes!
👍

 

[Luminis]

Wow, this threat really is becoming wall-of-text-y...

That's not what I meant. I meant that you can't blame lack of patience as being a fault of the people playing the game if you were the one that drastically changed the game design so that it required patience.
PD changed their massively open-ended GT Mode of the first four games into the comically linear GT Life mode of GT5. PD should not only not be surprised that people are trying so hard to sequence break, but they should have expected it.

I agree with that... I guess. It's just that, whether they deliberately decided to make the A-Spec system require patience or whether they didn't put much thought into it and it just turned out to be that way, it doesn't really matter.

The way I see it, it's pretty simple: Some have the patience to put up with it, some don't. And if PD consciously designed it to be that way, it was a pretty big mistake, in my opinion. For if they did, it would presume that the audience, for the most part, would be patient enough to put up with it. Which is, in my opinion, not the case. As a game developer, they should've known better than to rely on the virtue of patience.

As far as gaming goes, I think it's pretty much extinct, nowadays. This isn't particularily limited to GT5 or the GT franchise in general. It's somethign that has afflicted all kinds of games, I guess. But I digress.

I actually agree that the game would be so much better if it just went with the formula of a more open gameplay which was used in previous GTs.

All I'm saying is this:
If PD had paid some attention to how games have developed over the past years, they should've known that patience is not something that should be expected from most gamers.

I don't even intend to attack anyone, it's just the way I see the gaming industry as a whole.

 

[Tornado]

The sad thing you won't ever understand though is that, although we're likely to be affected, the people most affected are the ones posting here and here claiming they're bored of the game.

When you started duping you removed your incentive.

I can think of quite a few reasons that people would get bored with GT5. And unless you can prove that people stopped playing because of duping, you cannot say that they did.

Make a decision you feel comfortable with but remember that the choices you make in life, or in a game, reflect upon your character.

 

[Blitz187]

So do people make money playing this game? Are million dollar sponsorships on the line here if you dupe cars to progress in the game? In the end no matter how you bring it, it is a game. People pay money to play this game and own the disc. So does that not entitle the user to play the game how he wants too? Duping cars does no affect the game in a negative way at all... The only people who are bothered by it are the morale police....

For me duping is great. Back when I was a youngin'... 15 years old and no worries in the world playing GT1 and GT2 I could put in the time to get where I wanted... Also the way the game was setup made it easy to obtain things... theyve made it difficult now and FORCE you to put in massive amounts of time to get somewhere... I'm turning 30 next month and I just dont have the time to put in like I did when I was young. So for me duping is a godsend and if people are bothered by it, thats their problem to deal with... but don't try to tell people how they should play... thats just ridiculous....

 

[Ya Pops]

The sad thing you won't ever understand though is that, although we're likely to be affected, the people most affected are the ones posting here and here claiming they're bored of the game.

When you started duping you removed your incentive.

Barring a few of the endurance events, I've completed everything in the career mode and all the licences and special events.
I've outlined the extent of my duping in the first page of this thread (backup save trading and a bit of Bdaying). I have all the cars I want (around 400 barring colour variants. I don't want all 1031 cars) and there is nothing left to do but hotlap and go online.

Do us both a favour and don't presume to tell me what I'll never understand.

Don't wait for a moral code from PD. Make a decision you feel comfortable with but remember that the choices you make in life, or in a game, reflect upon your character.

That's just plain hilarious. So by that rationale, I guess all dupers go online to bash other players of the track because they have low morals and the driving skills to match.
Dupers just want a variety of cars and generally don't appreciate the way PD has gone about designing the career progression. That's all. It's not real life, and nobody is stealing anything from anybody.

Please don't paint everything in black and white. To be quite honest, your argument is bordering on fundamentalism regardless of how well written it is.

 

[jjaisli]

Implementing a proper, anti-duping system takes time and I believe this exploitation is the reaction to a kneejerk fix on PDs part. A longer term solution will likely involve the server capturing your trades and comparing them against your progress file.

I expect to see anti-duping implemented in a forthcoming patch. The real question is whether PD will take the number of self-confessed dupers as reason enough to change the levelling system.

I really don't believe they'll do anything about it. Neither PD nor Sony likely care that duping is going on. (Only vehement, busy-body anti-dupers really care) The only reason PD, or any developer, implement a frozen game save file is to prevent people from passing along any DLC which could potentially cut into their revenue. And since any of the stealth cars or chromline cars are not stored in your game save file but as part of the game data. They can not be copied, duped or traded. And I think it's reasonable to conclude if Sony does introduce any DLC for purchase, it will do so in a similar manner as with the stealth and chrome cars. Duping is here to stay for those who want it.

I could certainly understand if duping cars allowed you some sort of cheat where you could magically alter the cars' handling or give them more power, or something which would lead to an unfair situation in online racing. But this is clearly not the case. Cars are cars whether you win them, pay for them with credits, allow your B-spec morons to win them for you or dupe them through birthday or game save glitching. In a sense everybody who owns the game, ALREADY owns these cars. All 1,040 cars in the game, with every conceivable mod or color option available are ALREADY yours and sitting on the disc. As such, I would find it hard to believe that Sony or PD will do anything about the situation. There are some people out there who don't play the game as an RPG. To them, the goal is NOT progressing through the game and earning credits. To them, it's a driving simulator and they're not particularly amused with having to jump through hoops to unlock these cars.

So long as the cars are the cars and not magically altered, this entire duping question is nothing but a big red herring.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Don't wait for a moral code from PD. Make a decision you feel comfortable with but remember that the choices you make in life, or in a game, reflect upon your character.

lol This is where I have to draw the line. I wasn't going to post until I saw this.

Real life, yeah, you're right. But a game? Just no. I dupe because game progression is terribble compared to the previous four games. Like I said in another thread, I don't feel the need to cheat or use exploits in GT 1-4 because the progression was designed well in those games and didn't suffer issues that were very easy to prevent like GT5 does. Duping made the game much more tolerable for me.

But if cheating GT5 makes me a bad person, then so be it.

 

[ElSecundo]

I don't think there's a meaningful way to discuss cheating here, because there isn't even any agreement on what cheating is.

For some, 'cheating' is obtaining items and/or money and/or advantages through actions not built into game play. Bypassing lower level challenges by using higher level items that aren't available yet within the game would be called a cheat. These can often be obtained with 'cheat' codes, and in GT5's case, via duping.

For others, 'cheating' means getting an unfair advantage over others in a game. If they are playing by themselves, there can be no cheating by this definition. If they are playing with others who have access to the exact same equipment (no matter how it's obtained), there can be no such thing as cheating.

As a developer, if I'd created a specific set of challenges for players, and they bypassed the challenges, I'd say they were cheating. It's one thing to outsmart the challenges via game play, but bypassing them through exploiting a gaming system is just cheating. BUT if they'd played through the game and already beaten the challenges laid out, and went back to have a different kind of fun by using 'cheats' to get weapons or equipment out of game sequence, I'd say "more power to you, have fun".

Rubber-banding? No different than duping, IMO. It's just another exploit. I appreciate the cleverness of some exploits, but I hate to see them put to use before the gamer has beaten the challenges straight up. That's not what a gamer does. A gamer beats the game in a fair fight, then goes back and sees how he/she can twist the game system to their advantage.

The game developer builds a game, with a set of rules for playing. A toy manufacturer makes an object to be played with. Games have toy elements, and some people just want to play with the toy aspects of the game. That's their right, too, when they pay their money. Gamers seem to get mad when others play with the game as a toy, ignoring the set rules that make the game a challenge.

 

[Patrocles]

So I don't get it... it's wrong and cheating to dupe cars, but it's fine to rubber band grind ovals for cash?

Why is there any difference? Neither is how the game was "meant" to be played and both solve a problem that is a shortcoming with the game (ie cash payout scale) so why is one so frowned upon and the other just looked at as "oh that's ok"?

I mean rubber band grinding is one step away from a "push button get cash" solution and ultimately no different other than the fact your PS3 has to be on gobbling electricity to make it happen.

And Duping is an extension of the "push button get cash" option so I don't get why the GT crowd seems to feel like one is ok but the other isn't...

Their is a difference? I guess I am a "lumper" and put them both into the same category (which is "outside realm of what GT5 game designers planned for players").

Both are fine with me.
(full disclosure - I neither duplicate or rubberband controller in GT5)

 

[Rylan]

Do us both a favour and don't presume to tell me what I'll never understand.

That's probably sensible advice since, as I believe you won't ever understand it, it's pointless pointing it out. My bad!

That's just plain hilarious. So by that rationale, I guess all dupers go online to bash other players of the track because they have low morals and the driving skills to match.

Sorry, I missed where I posted that. Perhaps you could quote it or link it so I can review it. My statement is very simple but let me make it easier for you.

Everybody should make the choices they want to in life but they should do so with the full knowledge that people will judge them based on those actions.

Real life, yeah, you're right. But a game? Just no.

If we're talking about "Does Roleplaying John Shepherd as a bad guy in Mass Effect reflect on your personality" then I'll agree that compartmentalization means this isn't the case. However, I would take an interest if my children continuously decided to play 'the bad guy'.

But if we're talking about cheating in a game then, yes, I believe it reflects on your character. I think that if a person is willing to cheat in a game that really doesnt require cheating then I have to consider what they would do to get something that really had value.

 

[Samus]

I haven't bothered to read the whole thread, but to me there is a big difference.

Doing the rubber band grinding is still playing the game as intended. By that I mean you're still running races, earning money over and over. That's totally as intended and you're not directly manipulating the game, you're just automating the driving. The game is still being played normally as far as the game knows, it's getting the same inputs.

Duping however is different. For that you are directly manipulated a loophole in the game to benefit. The game intends you to buy a car, lose your money and gain one car. Backing up your save before doing so, sending the car to another account then loading back up pre-purchase and getting the car back is not playing the game as intended.

I don't do either for what it's worth, I think they're both a waste of time that could be spent actually playing the game, but that's my opinion.

 

[Ya Pops]

That's probably sensible advice since, as I believe you won't ever understand it, it's pointless pointing it out. My bad!

The AUP protects you from receiving an answer to this...

Sorry, I missed where I posted that. Perhaps you could quote it or link it so I can review it. My statement is very simple but let me make it easier for you.

Everybody should make the choices they want to in life but they should do so with the full knowledge that people will judge them based on those actions.

I said 'By that rationale'.. And I'm still waiting for you to provide sources for your claims. I notice you've avoided answering most of the questions aimed at you by myself and others.
Funny how guys like you consistently display selective vision, a condescending tone and the air of someone who believes themself to exist on some higher plane of intellectual and moral superiority.

Should I care how someone like you judges me?
Choices made in life are not the same as those made in a video game. One is not a true reflection of the other in this instance.
In fact, you remind me a lot of the guy who went by the name 'IncredibleMind'.. Which says a lot about the sheer arrogance of your kind..

But if we're talking about cheating in a game then, yes, I believe it reflects on your character. I think that if a person is willing to cheat in a game that really doesnt require cheating then I have to consider what they would do to get something that really had value.

That all depends on your view of cheating, which is what this thread is about.
I'm being patient with you here, and I'm still waiting for you to explain how an advantage is gained. So far, the best you've come up with is bragging and trophies...

 

[C_Raccoon23]

If we're talking about "Does Roleplaying John Shepherd as a bad guy in Mass Effect reflect on your personality" then I'll agree that compartmentalization means this isn't the case. However, I would take an interest if my children continuously decided to play 'the bad guy'.

But if we're talking about cheating in a game then, yes, I believe it reflects on your character. I think that if a person is willing to cheat in a game that really doesnt require cheating then I have to consider what they would do to get something that really had value.

If that's what you want to think, fine. It doesn't really matter to me, because I'm not playing GT5 anymore anyway, until future updates make it better where I won't feel the need to cheat, or until they at least add more things to do. So that's one less duper to worry about.

I'll be playing older GT games and that other racing game on that other console later on down the road.

 

[speedgear]

rubber band takes time to get money , stupid dupers trade car with other ppl , so you see a car that took hours for you to win duped in seconds by many noobs.