Will the relatively poor sales of GT6 affect the development of GTSport?

[DRADIS_9008]

I think everyone is touching on the same point .... GT6 was released at a time when casual/offline racers were looking at the PS4 and just not paying any attention to any game coming out on the PS3 ....Most people had already moved on mentally....GT6 has copped a lot crap over the last 2 years....I myself enjoy jumping on to blast some laps and enjoy playing with my online mates where we have some really good dog fighting sessions (at least 3-4 times a week).... thats all that matters ....that you end the night on a buzz comparing overtake moves and just general banter...(like we do at the go-kart track in real life) ... I have noticed when talking to a few people who had GT5 at work but are not consistent online racers that the common theme is "GT5 gives me what I need....and GT6 is just not different enough" the other day I chucked on GT5 just for nostalgic reasons (truth was my internet was down) and it surprised me that I could tell the difference between the 2 versions almost immediately but when I first got GT6 I did the same comparison and walked away going mmmmmm this is in essence a copy.....I can't explain why this has happened that now I can really see they are fairly different in handling and just feel.... but I do believe based on these non online enthusiasts at work and what they are telling me.... they will buy GT7 for sure....one guy even said to me .....I am not really into racing games but I allways by the GT's except for GT6....I obviously asked why? his answer ....the PS3 went into storage when GT6 came out there was no point buying a game I am not going to play on the PS4 ....and considering that I only have the PS3 active today exclusively to play GT6 (All my other gaming is on PS4) I see his point.

I believe it was in essence a calculated move by the creators knowing they were not ready for the PS4 but could not stretch the GT5 life out until late 2016...it is a smart move because if you combine the GT5 and GT6 numbers because their business case for funding is without doubt combining the cost i.e. for the non financial people out there they need to justify the cost versus benefit when getting funding for production and the costs of GT5 and GT6 I believe were a combined cost and they back in the office are rubbing their hands knowing they hit another 2M+ just for some tweaks....they are doing really well and if anything exceeded their internal forecasts regardless of what they say publicly....My personal opinion is GT7 will be a good game for the fans of GT series....and the non fans at work are telling me they will buy it for sure but they are not investing in Project cars....this goes back to people know the brand and have lived with it ....they want it in their collection.....Obviously I may be proven completely wrong...

 

[Mike_grpA]

The last couple of GT games have felt like PD tried to do too many things at the same time. The gameplay (career, AI, physics, etc.) suffered badly because they were trying to make the games do so many new things at once, with such a small team. GT5 sold well because:
A) It was hugely anticipated by fans.
B) It was hyped up beyond belief.
C) For a while it was bundled with the PS3.

I reckon GT5 is half the reason GT6 sold poorly (for a GT game). GT5 was hyped up like it was going to be the best racing sim ever. I bought it at release, and it was an absolute mess. It was infested with bugs, despite it's lengthy development, it's physics were nowhere near as good as they were made out to be pre-release, and pretty much all of the new features were done so poorly they seemed like tacked on afterthoughts, rather than the new revolutionary features we were promised in the hype fest.

Every time I went into a second hand store, or looked in the pre-owned section at EB Games, there would always be tons of copies of GT5. It must have been the most traded in of all PS3 games.

Then think of what the pre-GT6 hype was like. A lot of the same promises of brand new super realistic physics, ground breaking features, etc. Except this time it seemed most of these amazing new features wouldn't be in the game at the start, but "in a future update" (sorry guys, I know that quote is basically swearing at GT Planet). I once again believed the hype, thinking "they will have learned from the shortcomings of 5, and 6 will be improved in all areas". I pre-ordered 6, and when I got it, I was shocked. There seemed to be even more bugs in the physics than 5 had, some still haven't been resolved to this day, the damage had actually been made worse than 5, something I didn't think was possible, the AI and sounds were still the worst in the genre, and the game had been made way easier and shorter than any other full GT game.

Then I thought I could look past all of it because of the amazing course maker that had been hyped up so much pre-release. I bought GT6 mostly for this amazing new feature, that would surely be a game changer. The possibilities would be endless, and as far as I could tell from the interviews with Kaz, it would only be a couple of months tops before it was added.

We all know how that went...

From my perspective, GT6's poor sales could be attributed to the poor performance of GT5. Obviously releasing it on PS3 after PS4 launched will have had an effect too.

My point is, seeing how poor GT6 was, Worse than 5 IMO, GT7 will have to deliver more than just pre-release hype to generate GT5 levels of sales. Especially up against games like Pcars, AC, FM6, and all the arcade racers that are available (since GT tries to attract sim and arcade fans alike). I really, really hope that they have learned from the last two games, and make GT7 amazing as a result, but I voted for the third option because I think they'll look at the sales numbers and think they don't really NEED to change anything, as they're still good numbers.

 

[sk8er913]

None of the options were fair... They made over 100 million US dollars from this game... There are plenty of things a company can do with 100 million dollars, it won't effect development at all. The little "A familiar game targeted towards a more casual audience ala GT6" was entirely unnessary.

edit:

If we go by the past figures it would seem Sony has some worrying to do:

In the millions:

Gran Turismo 10.850
Gran Turismo 2 9.370
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec 14.890
Gran Turismo Concept Series 1.560
Gran Turismo 4 “Prologue” 1.400
Gran Turismo 4 11.730
Gran Turismo 5 “Prologue” 5.350
Gran Turismo PSP 4.220
Gran Turismo 5 10.890
Gran Turismo 6 2.370

The reason why GT1s and GT3s (and probably GT5s too) sales were higher than GT2 GT4 GT6 sales was, because often Gran Turismo was sold with the console as a bundle. That's part of the problem, another problem was that it was released at the same the next gen console.

bad sales =/ bad game

probably more like:
Late release + No console sales = bad sales







This might change development of GT8, depending on how it lines up with the PS5 release. But not for 7.

 

[jimipitbull]

Is an Italian company that used VGCharts for GT6 sales figures a reputable source Johnny? Scraping the barrel aren't we?

 

[gtracedriver1]

As most of you are by now aware, GT6 has sold an abysmal 2.37 million copies. I expected the numbers to be low, but not that low. It introduces all kinds of variable never before seen in the GT series, primarily uncertainty as to the direction of the franchise. It also might mean GT6 was an overall loss for the Sony group for the first time, after 15 years of wildly successful releases. Heck even the Prologue outsold GT6 by more than 2:1.

I'm curious as to what effect everyone thinks this may or may not have on the development of GT7. Do you think it'll make PD take a second look at including standard cars in GT7? Do you think it'll spur them to rethink the offline gameplay, to cater to a wider range of players beyond the casuals that the GT6 appeared to be targeted to for the most part? Will they revisit the online experience to allow lobby hosts more control over events and provide them with better tools for player management, to allow a smooth, cleaner online experience? Do you think they are planning to overhaul major elements of the franchise as a result of these poor sales results?

Or do you think it'll be business as usual, basically the same type of GT game in a shinier, more powerful package with some added bells and whistles? Do you think they are confident about the direction the franchise is going and will chalk this terrible sales result up to the console transition?

NOTE: This is not a discussion of GT6 sales, you can find that discussion HERE. It's also not a bash GT6 thread, you can find that HERE.

We do not know about the numbers until they officially release it on their site. The number in your post is one year old from vgchartz. Obviously they will look back and see what they like to do for GT7. Gfx, gameplay wise it will be pretty good. There should not be any standard cars and sounds, AI needs a overhaul.

 

[sk8er913]

We do not know about the numbers until they officially release it on their site. The number in your post is one year old from vgchartz. Obviously they will look back and see what they like to do for GT7. Gfx, gameplay wise it will be pretty good. There should not be any standard cars and sounds, AI needs a overhaul.

Well done, I see it on the news page now.

"Although VIRAG does not specify the source of their data, their numbers closely match those displayed by “VGChartz” in 2014 – an unofficial and notoriously unreliable website which provides rough estimates of video game sales. Therefore, the numbers reported in the court documents are unverified, outdated, and almost certainly incorrect."

 

[Tenacious D]

I can't see how anyone can say that GT5 is better than 6, unless you REALLY love that Course Maker. While you still have to feed it paint chips for new colors, at least when you get that started, the Paint Shop in GT6 has some darn paint!

I have no doubt that GT7 is going to have a number of things that up the ante over GT5 and 6, besides delicious graphics. And the graphics are what I expect to be the least improved, they're already fantastic. Just think of what incredible features were added since GT4.

And people have mentioned all the other racing games out since the launch of PS4. Some are far better than others, but they all have something cool that makes people discuss them as benchmarks to judge GT7 against. Heck, there are some awesome racers out there. And as much as Kaz says he pays no attention to what other developers are doing, we all know he's aware of them and what they offer.

What's more, even with his extensive knowledge of all things automotive, Kaz became a professional race car driver. He knows what it's like to be THERE, on the track, driving a race car. He plays his own games. He has said he wants to bring as much of that experience into his game.

But on top of all that, Kaz and the team are hella ambitious. You can't look at GT5 and 6 and say, "Oh... anyone could have done that... they basically phoned that in." Sure, and mediocre games routinely sell 11 million copies. Yes, to be sure, they are strange Gran Turismos with weird flaws and issues, and I doubt anyone doesn't think that Kaz hates admitting this.

He and the team are in the same state as a world class rock band who are used to making platinum selling albums. And then along comes one that a number of fans question, and a sequel which only goes gold. Most of the time, such bands will knuckle down and work hard to outdo themselves. They have the ambition, they have the skills, they have the technology and the funding. I expect GT6 to be quite outdone.

 

[sk8er913]

I can't see how anyone can say that GT5 is better than 6, unless you REALLY love that Course Maker. While you still have to feed it paint chips for new colors, at least when you get that started, the Paint Shop in GT6 has some darn paint!

I have no doubt that GT7 is going to have a number of things that up the ante over GT5 and 6, besides delicious graphics. And the graphics are what I expect to be the least improved, they're already fantastic. Just think of what incredible features were added since GT4.

And people have mentioned all the other racing games out since the launch of PS4. Some are far better than others, but they all have something cool that makes people discuss them as benchmarks to judge GT7 against. Heck, there are some awesome racers out there. And as much as Kaz says he pays no attention to what other developers are doing, we all know he's aware of them and what they offer.

What's more, even with his extensive knowledge of all things automotive, Kaz became a professional race car driver. He knows what it's like to be THERE, on the track, driving a race car. He plays his own games. He has said he wants to bring as much of that experience into his game.

But on top of all that, Kaz and the team are hella ambitious. You can't look at GT5 and 6 and say, "Oh... anyone could have done that... they basically phoned that in." Sure, and mediocre games routinely sell 11 million copies. Yes, to be sure, they are strange Gran Turismos with weird flaws and issues, and I doubt anyone doesn't think that Kaz hates admitting this.

He and the team are in the same state as a world class rock band who are used to making platinum selling albums. And then along comes one that a number of fans question, and a sequel which only goes gold. Most of the time, such bands will knuckle down and work hard to outdo themselves. They have the ambition, they have the skills, they have the technology and the funding. I expect GT6 to be quite outdone.

I also don't understand how people say that GT4 is the best GT. GT6 has all of the same cars and tracks AND MORE! As well as an online feature that allows you to organize races like AJ's GTPlanet Endurance Series. And GT4 didn't have GT Academy. GT6 is the best GT, until 7 is released. with every release they make massive improvements that add to the game as a whole. A lot of people are mad about the missing course maker. But it might be really, really, good.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I also don't understand how people say that GT4 is the best GT. GT6 has all of the same cars and tracks AND MORE! As well as an online feature that allows you to organize races like AJ's GTPlanet Endurance Series. And GT4 didn't have GT Academy. GT6 is the best GT, until 7 is released. with every release they make massive improvements that add to the game as a whole. A lot of people are mad about the missing course maker. But it might be really, really, good.

Because the AI actually races you, as in does not deliberately let you win? How about a competent GT-Mode? You can say what you like about online this or Academy that. It doesn't make the game better. GT3 and GT4 are so much better than GT6, the absolute worst GT game ever made.

 

[sk8er913]

Because the AI actually races you, as in does not deliberately let you win? How about a competent GT-Mode? You can say what you like about online this or Academy that. It doesn't make to game better. GT3 and GT4 make GT6 look silly.

AI can't compete with real people. Racing real people is way more realistic that any AI could possibly be, for the next few decades. But I hope AI stay in games. I don't want to see AI on the racetrack, unless they are safety features.

 

[Tired Tyres]

AI can't compete with real people. Racing real people is way more realistic.

Totally irrelevant to people who do not race online, and Project Cars would suggest otherwise anyway.

 

[sk8er913]

Totally irrelevant to people who do not race online.

The vast majority of people have access to race online. The 5% that can't are irrelevant. That isn't a solid number, it's just an educated guess, but so is the outdated sales total in the OP.

 

[Tired Tyres]

The vast majority of people have access to race online. The 5% that can't are irrelevant. That isn't a solid number, it's just an educated guess, but so is the outdated sales total in the OP.

Irrelevant. I have access to online. I have no interest at all in racing online. I've tried it. It is not for me.

 

[sk8er913]

Irrelevant. I have access to online. I have no interest at all in racing online.

Well then too bad, you're missing out on some great competition. AI can't replace real drivers.

 

[jimipitbull]

Didn't the GT6 sales thread have the title changed by a moderator due to it being deliberately misleading? From memory it violated the AUP, much in the same way as this thread's title.

 

[Tired Tyres]

It was changed once the source of the data was discovered. This thread title is not misleading - unless you believe GT6 sales to be somehow less than terrible?

 

[Zelalem]

Didn't the GT6 sales thread have the title changed by a moderator due to it being deliberately misleading? From memory it violated the AUP, much in the same way as this thread's title.

Give the OP a break please. He probably didn't have time to change the name yet.

Well then too bad, you're missing out on some great competition. AI can't replace real drivers.

Nor graphics, physics or sound. Real life wins everytime, but everything can be improved and the AI in GT6 is abysmal. Please try to understand, that for someone like Tired Tyres or myself a good AI is more important, because some don't have the time or skill to race in a very competitive and good racing league like the gt endurance series. I like watching it, thought. Beyond that driving in random lobbys can result in bad races with a lot crashes.

 

[sk8er913]

Nor graphics, physics or sound. Real life wins everytime, but everything can be improved and the AI in GT6 is abysmal.

Well the graphics are closer to real life than in GT4, the physics are closer to real life than GT4, and the sound is an improvement too. The AI might be slower and less competitive. But there are more cars on the grid, and PD seems to be trying to build more dynamic and aware AI. The thing that online play represents is an alternative opponent to the AI. So if you are finding the AI to be lifeless, you have the option for something more real. I would say that every single core gameplay element in GT6 is better than GT4. GT5 has a poorly designed course maker, but I'm not sure that displaces the improvements that GT6 made over it's predecessor.

Sure real life is the best. But we aren't Billionaires, nor professional race car drivers (except for the lucky few GTP members that are), so we have to resort to trying to simulate real life conditions.

I think in GT7 they will continue to develop and improve all aspects of the game in someway, as they have done in all of the past versions of the game. GT7 will be the most advanced and lifelike GT so far! I still think it is unfair to say this series is created for the casual gamer. Have those that call GT a casual racing game played NFS or TDU recently?

 

[Zelalem]

@sk8er913
I do agree on GT6 being better than GT4 and your thought on GT7. But things are different with your argument about playing online, if you want to race more life like drivers. Someone like myself just don't have the skill or time to race in leagues and want to race against a good AI instead.

 

[jimipitbull]

It was changed once the source of the data was discovered. This thread title is not misleading - unless you believe GT6 sales to be somehow less than terrible?

I believe someone used a word without knowing what it means

Full Definition of ABYSMAL

a : having immense or fathomless extension downward, backward, or inward <an abysmal cliff>

b : immeasurably great : profound <abysmal ignorance>

c : immeasurably low or wretched <abysmal living conditions of the poor>

So perhaps it's not deliberately misleading, if that's the case I apologise Johnny. It's probably just misleading due to ignorance.

 

[sk8er913]

It was changed once the source of the data was discovered. This thread title is not misleading - unless you believe GT6 sales to be somehow less than terrible?

I believe they are not terrible. How much do they get per copy? They made money or broke even, and that's all they need to do.

 

[Zelalem]

I believe they are not terrible. How much do they get per copy? They made money or broke even, and that's all they need to do.

Since PD is first party Platform Royalty can be ignored.

 

[sk8er913]

Since PD is first party Platform Royalty can be ignored.

Well 14x2.37 is 30 million. Thats a lot for a 50 man team. I still think they made money from this game.

 

[Zelalem]

Well 14x2.37 is 30 million. Thats a lot for a 50 man team. I still think they made money from this game.

Add to that the 27$ for Sony and you have 41x sold copies. With 2,37 million sales Sony would get almost 100,000,000. But those sale numbers are wrong.

 

[sk8er913]

Add to that the 27$ for Sony and you have 41x sold copies. With 2,37 million sales Sony would get almost 100,000,000. But those sale numbers are wrong.

They are most likely higher, possibly around 4 or 5 million, but thats just speculation.

 

[GT6mebe]

Since PD is first party Platform Royalty can be ignored.

This is not an accurate diagram. Its a rough estimate at best. Pubs rarely give out such numbers and it varies across the board due to marketing, platform and distribution deals. I'm only point this out because you are multiplying inaccurate numbers by a factor of millions to obtain revenue/profit resulting in a massive margin of error.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Didn't the GT6 sales thread have the title changed by a moderator due to it being deliberately misleading? From memory it violated the AUP, much in the same way as this thread's title.

I guess the forum as a whole violated AUP, you're grasping at straws to be honest in what would seem to be a shallow attempt at just ruffling up those you don't continually agree with.

 

[Zelalem]

This is not an accurate diagram. Its a rough estimate at best. Pubs rarely give out such numbers and it varies across the board due to marketing, platform and distribution deals. I'm only point this out because you are multiplying inaccurate numbers by a factor of millions to obtain revenue/profit resulting in a massive margin of error.

Onlive was a cloud gaming company and worked with those publishers. Their estimate should be fairly accurate.

 

[FoRiZon]

So, is GT6 dead? Well even i who sometimes proclaim it is confused. I do saw numerous influx to PCars. Some have a great time, but it does have a drama by itself which is a ridiculous amount of bugs. Less said about Forza which got the fiasco when FM5 goes out with its economic system and removed features plus the physics that still on debate. Time will tell if FM6 got it right.

And also time will tell if GT7 got it right. We witnessed the major improvement in sound. PD recruiting, etc. The amount of new premiums in GT6 is actually okay by the numbers. The biggest problem as far as i see here is the lack of communication. And, that's it, really. GT6 isn't so bad it'll make GT7 an unforgivable piece. Plus GT6 is in PS3 and a development continuation of GT5 anyways, so its not really a flop and it is what to expect at that point.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well 14x2.37 is 30 million. Thats a lot for a 50 man team. I still think they made money from this game.

How about a 140+ man team for 3 years?

I guess the forum as a whole violated AUP, you're grasping at straws to be honest in what would seem to be a shallow attempt at just ruffling up those you don't continually agree with.

Give the OP a break please. He probably didn't have time to change the name yet.

Thank you sirs, you are both gentlemen and scholars


Of course I was unaware of the source of the sales information at the time of posting. Now that I'm aware of it, I'll leave it up to the mods to decide if the thread should close on that basis.