Would you be disappointed, if GT7 releases on PS4, too?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 7' started by rhalgr, Sep 18, 2020.

?

Would you be disappointed, if GT7 releases on PS4, too?

  1. Yes

    92 vote(s)
    58.6%
  2. No

    65 vote(s)
    41.4%
  1. Emilius_73

    Emilius_73

    Messages:
    81
    No... just no.

    A PS4 port would be an insane limiting factor for GT7. Say goodbye to raytracing, larger multiplayer grids, dynamic weather, etc.
     
  2. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

    Messages:
    1,674
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm not sure that's necessarily the case.
    In a sense no different to PS4 games that were Pro enhanced with better resolution, HDR, frame rate, etc.
    Also, Ride4 (which has both a PS4 and PS5 version releasing soon) mention larger grids on the next gen. version.

    I feel the dynamic weather is a decent point though.
     
  3. hardvibes

    hardvibes

    Messages:
    3,966
    Location:
    Italy
    Why worry about something that isn't going to happen?
     
  4. MoLiEG

    MoLiEG

    Messages:
    6,042
    Location:
    Mexico
    Gotta get that sweet dollar.

    I would not mind seeing GT7 in 2 consoles, but I don't think it will happen.
     
    Animedeaf likes this.
  5. neil_1980

    neil_1980

    Messages:
    107
    Assuming we knew soon enough (and I'd put money on that not being the case) I'd cancel my PS5 order.

    Yeah it might look better on the PS5 v PS4 but if it means the game being crippled in terms of grid sizes/weather/PSVR then Id rather save £450 and just play it on a PS4
     
  6. imported_rik19

    imported_rik19

    Messages:
    2,193
    Location:
    England
    GT7 prologue on ps4, why not?
     
  7. TS050

    TS050 Premium

    Messages:
    2,876
    This is because developers literally weren’t allowed to have features exclusive to the PS4 Pro. Every game has to run on a base PS4 first
     
    Brzlav and ImaRobot like this.
  8. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

    Messages:
    12,955
    Location:
    United States
    Which makes it interesting what he said about Ride 4. I'm wondering if that doesn't matter anymore? Or that it's just outright incorrect, because I can't seem to find anything on it.
     
  9. FPV MIC

    FPV MIC

    Messages:
    2,453
    As far as I know it's correct.

    Q: Will PS4 Pro have separate or exclusive games?
    There will not be any PS4 Pro-exclusive games. Because PS4 Pro and the standard PS4 are members of the same family, both systems will be fully compatible with all past, present, and future PS4 titles, including PlayStation VR. All PS4 games are PS4 Pro games, and vice-versa.


    From here: https://blog.playstation.com/2016/09/08/ps4-pro-the-ultimate-faq/

    I'm not sure how Ride 4 will work being cross gen. Bigger PS5 grids offline only? Or Ps5 specific servers with an option to choose between cross gen or not? I can't see developers dumbing down the online content (framerates etc.) enough to run on a base PS4 and a PS5 like they did with PS4 and Pro.
     
    ImaRobot likes this.
  10. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

    Messages:
    12,955
    Location:
    United States
    That's exactly what I was thinking. Games for PS5 don't seem to be held back, but instead, the PS4 is getting cut short.
     
    FPV MIC likes this.
  11. Vspectra

    Vspectra

    Messages:
    1,300
    Ride 4 isn't focused on competitive online racing and esports. Having a ps4 GT7 that won't support the same online grid count, physics, or lacks features like dynamic weather wouldn't work in cross-gen play between the two GTs, so the ps5 version will have to be held back to make online play fair with the ps4 player-base.

    Even outside of that, the graphical assets, especially for tracks, would be made with PS4 hardware in mind and it'll be easier just to increase the resolution using those ps4 assets for ps5 instead of making entirely new track models and assets that actually take advantage of ps5 hardware. PD already struggles with making consistent track assets for only one console gen to begin with.
     
    ArR29 likes this.
  12. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

    Messages:
    1,674
    Location:
    Australia
    Yep, sure.
    To my knowledge what I said there is correct though.
    "Better resolution, HDR, framerate, etc."
    To be fair, it's possible/probable that most games had an option to lock in higher frame rates or run the increased visuals.
    I'm unsure if any games actually allowed for both purely via an 'enhanced Pro' version.
    As for features, ie. dynamic weather, I acknowledged that's a different ball game.

    I think Ride4 is a reasonable analogy, almost a GT on 2 wheels.
    But I'm also struggling to find any fine details about it.
    I mentioned (perhaps in another thread) that PS4 races I've seen all have a 12 bike grid.
    But I can't find anything regarding the PS4's version framerates, resolution, etc.

    As for the PS5 version:
    "Get ready to experience a smoother and shining gameplay, at 60FPS with a resolution up to 4K and enjoy your beloved bikes with the highest quality for shaders and textures, with a never seen before level of detail both for bikes and environments. Also, your riding experience will be extremely more precise, satisfying, and natural. Thanks to the extra power of next gen consoles, all races both online and offline will be now even more compelling, with 20 riders competing for the victory!"
    https://ridevideogame.com/news/ride-4-on-ps5-and-xbox-series-x/

    My assumption is that they specifically mention resolution, framerate, grid size, etc. there because it's an increase over the PS4 version.
    That assumption could be incorrect though.

    *Edit*
    I just wanted to add, and keeping in the same frame using the Ride4 example, that the PS4 version will be able to be played on a standard PS4, a PS4 Pro, and the PS5.
    What that might equate to regarding differences in resolution and framerates is beyond me. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  13. MIE1992

    MIE1992

    Messages:
    1,890
    Location:
    United States
    I...would not really be a fan. Like, I wouldn't be highly disappointed, but I'd likely just get the PS5 version, considering that I doubt the two hypothetical versions would be comparable.
     
  14. liquid_ocelot

    liquid_ocelot

    Messages:
    10
    It would be extremely disappointing, and I really don't like where gaming is headed this "generation".

    It started with Microsoft's decision to support the Xbox One for two years following the launch of their new console. Next thing you know they're launching a weaker/cheaper console alongside the much more powerful Series X. Imagine boasting about the power of your next-gen console, only to bottleneck yourself and the rest of the industry by releasing a 4 teraflop console as well. And to make matters worse, their entire platform is shifting towards subscription based, netflix style gaming, with Gamepass. There is no doubt that the quality of first party games will diminish in such a system.

    Sony's messaging has been inconsistent as well. Jim Ryan talked about how they wanted to migrate users from PS4 to PS5 as soon as possible. Suddenly, there are several launch games that are cross-gen, and even a future AAA title, "Horizon Forbidden West", that is also confirmed to be cross-gen. While it's great that more people get to share the experience, we're talking about new games being tied to technology that's nearly a decade old. It makes developers jobs' tougher and the games suffer as a result.

    I'm fine with yearly releases launching on previous gen consoles (EA sports titles, F1, 2k, etc) but most AAA titles shouldn't be held back, especially not a flagship franchise like Gran Turismo.
     
    Brzlav and Leovizzz like this.
  15. NickXP

    NickXP

    Messages:
    139
    Nope The spec differences between the ps4 and ps4 pro are nowhere near as big as those between the ps4 and the ps5.
     
  16. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

    Messages:
    1,674
    Location:
    Australia
    I think you may have mistaken the point behind my post (and also forgotten that I was responding to another post).

    Sure. There is a marked difference with the gap between a PS5 and PS4 vs the gap between a PS4 standard and Pro.
    But it seems to me that some people feel that just because a game is available on a weaker system it therefore means that the game must be hobbled on the stronger system.

    Case in point: "Say goodbye to raytracing ..."
    My (fairly kind) response: "I'm not sure that's necessarily the case."

    In other words, just because there is a PS4 and PS5 version of the same game, doesn't mean the PS5 version is automatically limited to what the PS4 version can offer with it's weaker system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
    Animedeaf likes this.
  17. Vspectra

    Vspectra

    Messages:
    1,300
    The point of Pro was to provide higher resolutions because of the gaining popularity of 4k TVs, the games were still designed and made to run on base PS4, not make entirely different game assets than what the base PS4 GPU could handle at 1080p. The basic hardware architecture itself between PS4 and PS4Pro was actually still the same and limited by the same weak laptop jaguar CPUs at a slightly higher frequency. The only major difference between normal vs. Pro is more gpu teraflops for the resolution increase. The point of Ps4 Pro wasn't to go into a completely new generation, it was to provide the same PS4 assets at a boosted resolution or more stable framerates.

    It's not remotely the same as going from a PS4 to PS5, in which the hardware jump here is actually much larger than the jump from PS3 to PS4.

    If you're going to create a game for both PS4 and PS5, it will 100% hinder the potential of what a PS5-only version would bring in both graphical asset quality and game design. Choosing to say that a few features that might not be needed and can be replaced with more traditional rendering methods, such as ray-traced reflections, or a simple change in resolutions or grid counts, doesn't prove that a PS5 version wouldn't be held back by PS4 hardware. That's not taking into account the tire modeling and physics system that will definitely be paired back just to make gameplay the same between ps4 and ps5 users.

    PD aren't going to separate the player-base for an esports online focused game even though they can do so much more with the PS5's CPU jump. To run at a stable minimum of 60hz with real-time global illumination for dynamic time transitions (which can be aided by ray-tracing), dynamic weather and atmospherics with volumetric cloud simulation, thermo-mechanical tire physics rather than the traditional mathematical model, actual damage simulation, the potential to have all of these is only possible on PS5 hardware. Taking away all of these advancements would essentially involve Polyphony making an entirely different game for PS4, so not only will they separate the player-base but the idea of PD making two different games at once is highly unreasonable. So the only other option here is for them to make the ps5 version essentially the same game as the ps4 version. A next-gen GT will 100% be held back by ps4 limitations.
     
  18. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

    Messages:
    1,674
    Location:
    Australia
    "If you're going to create a game for both PS4 and PS5, it will 100% hinder the potential of what a PS5-only version would bring in both graphical asset quality and game design."

    Really?
    Have you asked Milestone if that's the case with Ride 4?
    Because from what I can tell they are looking to push the PS5 version of the game as far as they take it with regards to what's available for them with what the PS5 allows.
     
  19. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

    Messages:
    27,556
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    There's no way anyone is pushing the PS5 as far as it can go with anything already announced. The games you see near the end of a consoles life far surpass those you see at the start from a technical standpoint. That's a proven trend and it follows logically as people get used to what works best to maximise the consoles potential.

    Also if Ride 4 is being designed to offer the same gameplay experience on both consoles then yes there is a valid argument to say the fact it's being developed on PS4 is hindering the PS5 version. I'm not actually interested in Ride 4 so I don't know what they are going for.

    But let's say GT7 offers the same gameplay experience on PS4 as PS5 (assuming they make it dual platform) that means features the PS5 can handle must be cut. I'm not talking graphics here, you improve the graphics by upping the resolutions and enabling effects like RTS. That isn't maximising a consoles potential per se, it's just making use of what the PS5 can do.

    That doesn't mean GT7 couldn'y have real time weather, time changes, more cars on track, longer tracks etc. But to offer the same gameplay experience on each console will restrict one to enable the gameplay experiences to align.

    Like I said, I don't know what the developers of Ride 4 are going for, but if the gampelay experience and features aren't the same, then is it really the same game that's dual platform. No not really. So that's my thinking on the matter.
     
    Razgriz2118 likes this.
  20. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

    Messages:
    1,674
    Location:
    Australia
    Sure, it's a reasonable argument.
    But I'm not going for a 'let's say GT7' scenario.
    I'm working with an announced PS4/PS5 game that is similar to GT except it has 2 wheels.
    The PS5 version is being released 3 months after the PS4 version.

    The developers state the PS5 version will have better resolution, better framerate, more bikes on grid, better physics, better shaders and textures, obviously using the haptic controller, and I will assume also the 3D Audio abilities of the new console.

    So again, I will ask the question.
    In what way is the PS5 version being hobbled by the the PS4 version?
     
  21. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

    Messages:
    27,556
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Like I said, I haven't been following Ride 4, I don't know what the developers are doing, but from the sound of it they're developing 2 games (albeit calling them the same thing) with each console in mind.

    What some people think of immediately when they hear of a game that's cross gen is that it's the same being ported from one console to the other. Essentially in this scenario the PS5 version would be the PS4 one but with just the higher resolution and effects. And if it really is the same game but with the graphics and frame rate boosted then it absolutely is sacrificing things on the newer console. And these ports do happen, they are often lazy, but they do happen.

    The key though is my reference to the two games offering the same gameplay experience or not (specifically in a non-graphical sense anyway). If the physics in Ride 4 are different between the two versions and there are different numbers of bikes on the grid they aren't the same gameplay experience.

    If you are developing two games on each system that appear similar but underneath are designed specifically for the systems they are being released on then yes you should get much more from the newer system.
     
    Razgriz2118 likes this.
  22. Tassie_tiger

    Tassie_tiger

    Messages:
    1,674
    Location:
    Australia
    I think I'm just going to have to walk away from this conversation.

    It started as 'Say goodbye to raytracing'.
    My response was 'No'.

    I would love to see someone show me where anything I've said is incorrect.

    All of this 'Yeh, but' stuff, imagining only negative maybe's about a game we have very little idea about is wearing thin.
     
  23. PiotrGT

    PiotrGT

    Messages:
    239
    Location:
    Poland
    I wish they released it on PS4 as well somehow. I think they could do that, GT Sport already looks amazing even on a base console, Maybe it would be possible to scale down PS5 GT7 to GT Sport like graphics for PS4 version. PS4 still needs that full blown GT game. It's not very likely to happen though which to me is unfortunate.
     
    Nielsen likes this.
  24. Castrol96

    Castrol96

    Messages:
    2,790
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So far GT7 looks like a PS4 game enhanced a little like Spiderman.

    Polyphony always push the boundaries in tech when it comes to visuals, with the way GT7 looked it could potentially be for PS4 too as well minus some features.
     
    markell007, FuriousDemon and PiotrGT like this.
  25. NickXP

    NickXP

    Messages:
    139
    According to developers most games are developed for the weaker console first in order to make sure that it runs well and then they port it to the more powerful system. That means that the PS5 version would be heavily restricted by a 7+ year old console that was considered outdated even when it came out. Also ray tracing wouldn't exist in the PS4 version in no way shape or form. There are currently 0 out of the +4000 PS4 games available that support ray tracing. Also fun fact the PS3's CPU is more powerful than the PS4's CPU on paper.... I am serious look it up
     
    Razgriz2118, ImaRobot and Dave A like this.
  26. Dave A

    Dave A Premium

    Messages:
    27,556
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Now I'm confused, I'm not sure what has prompted this or what part of my previous post you dissagree with since I was essentially acknowledghing and agreeing with your point about Ride 4 and explaining why, albeit based solely on your comments as I know very little about Ride 4.

    As someone that does some coding (albeit not to the level of PD of course) I can tell you that just doing a port of code from one console to the other would be making sacrifices left, right and centre, but developing the games for each console independanlty of each other with thier own code etc. and with the PS5 version including extra features (i.e. not offering the same experiernce) might not be making those sacrifices.

    This costs a lot more though, and straight ports with some trimming here and there and higher resolutions and better effects tend to be the common (and considerably cheaper) route taken.

    I can make a 2d sprite based game run like crap on a GTX 1080 PC with an i7 7700k processor (I actually know I can, I've done it), there's hell of a lot to be said for building optomised your code for the platform it's running on over porting the code.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
    Razgriz2118 and ImaRobot like this.
  27. FuriousDemon

    FuriousDemon

    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    United States
    Pretty much this. The fact that they already show the game (and it doesn’t look that much better than GT Sport) probably means it’s a PS4 game as well. Could be wrong of course, but if it comes out in 2021 I’m fairly certain it’s going to be cross-gen. If what they showed so far is just pre-rendered concept stuff, then maybe we have a chance of it being PS5 exclusive.
     
  28. Daz555

    Daz555

    Messages:
    965
    Which would rule out large driver fields and enhanced physics and that would be terrible for next gen.
     
  29. NickXP

    NickXP

    Messages:
    139
    Well if you think there isn't much difference between GT SPORT and GT7 then you should probably get your eyes checked.
     
  30. Samus

    Samus

    Messages:
    18,961
    Or it's just footage from early development. This wouldn't be the first time that they showed off footage for the next gen game that was actually just last gen slightly tarted up, they did it with GT2(000) and Vision Gran Turismo (first PS3 demo). We just don't know at this stage.

    The improved lighting is really the only difference. Everything else, in the gameplay, is identical.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020