WTF! GT4 is NOT online

[Sambert]

More isn't always better, unless the foundation is strong enough to allow it. If the driving experience alone is enough to balance it out, then no online play is a small sacrifice to pay.

I've only been able to watch videos and read interviews with KY. I havent had the pleasure of playing Prologue. Maybe the handling and immersion is so much better that any complaints about previous games are washed away. I just wish they could fix current problems before tackling bigger obstacles (i.e. more more more)

Yes the AI in all released GT games is most certainly crap. Yet the essence of GT is that it to allows you to feel like you’re piloting a particular car. Hence the need for a greater quantity. I think KYs chief priority is a driving simulator rather than racing simulator. For someone such as myself, that suits me very well as I find myself testing cars against each other in free runs most of the time. I understand your frustration, yet what other game allows you to feel like you're not playing game? I would rather drive a pink vitz in GT4 than race online with an Enzo in Forza…


Edit: Hmm that sounds like a good signature

 

[JohnBM01]

Beds at PD because they are LAZY? Come on now. If PD didn't give a flying crap about GT4, they'd release it since June 2004 with some of the glitches I heard about in Driv3r or some of the crashing in Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3. "Be thankful you're getting GT4, you unworthy peasants?" Let me tell you something. If Gran Turismo wasn't as successful as it was... 1.) PGR2 will be the only true-to-life racing game. 2.) Rallysport Challenge 2 would be better than GT4 and still be in a battle with the Colin McRae series. And oh yeah... 3.) Millions of dollars will be wasted on nonsense. 4.) Would-be racers would have no real inspiration or way to practice up on racing technique. 5.) Logitech would be making steering wheels for games other than GT. 6.) Legions of fans would be wishing someone make a racing game that would be the standard for what seperates a good racing game from a great one. And perhaps in terms of our conversation... 7a.) GTPlanet would not be born. 7b.) A site devoted to Gran Turismo would be devoted to stuff OTHER than GT. So since 1997 in Japan and perhaps 1998 to us, this game is responsible for quite a lot. If this game series wasn't around, the Ridge Racer series and Need for Speed series would be the top racing game series on PS2. So PD came a long way and you want to say they betrayed your trust because they didn't include widescale online play? If you want online play with lots of cars and races, get an XBOX and bag Sega GT Online. How dare you attack PD like you did? The least you can do for this subculture of GT gameplayers is to honor PD for what they've done even before GT4. And if they're so lazy, why are they working feverishly to try to get GT4 released as soon as they can without errors? If this were soccer/football and I were a referree, I'd be displaying out a lot of red cards for those who feel so violated having dealt with GT4. What's wrong with this world? Why do I bother sometimes? I don't get it. I may never get it.

 

[JohnBM01]

When it comes to GT4, they WERE working on online play. But GT4 can still be a success even without online play. Besides, all that glitz and glam that you all been wanting in a GT series game takes more work than getting cars and tracks put together. PD is like its own family. They are a team. They are making a racing game that has never looked better since GT3 (would have been "Gran Turismo 2000"). They are so dedicated in getting GT4 done right. They live by their own principles, and if they aren't satisfied, they'll MAKE it hot. So what would be an analysis of this? Think about when GTPlanet was being upgraded, then when the main server went down for days. Jordan worked his ass off to make sure GTPlanet remains. Did he complain? No, he didn't. Is Kazunori complaining that he can't get the game done? No way in hell. So how can you tell me and others that PD is lazy all because they can't meet the standards of one such person? We are only suggesting. PD knows what it is capable of doing and know they'd like to work with regardless of what someone thinks. Like on G4TechTV show "X-Play" one time. Adam Sessler liked RallySport Challenge 2, giving it a "4 out of 5" rating. After the review, he liked having the car smashed up, and said that maybe Gran Turismo should follow suit. And if we're unworthy peasants, remember. KY and PD didn't make Gran Turismo what it is today. Ohh no. WE made Gran Turismo what it is. But yeah, you're right. Don't want GT4? Don't get it. Don't like GT4 because "something's missing?" Don't get it. PD worked too damn hard for all of this and I feel as a GT fan that I don't seem to belong if people hate GT4 all of a sudden because of wheels, maybe some AI, or a tiny little thing like online play. And PD is working on it. So you have a choice. GT4 online (LAN only), or GT4 (worldwide gameplay). Your choice. Well, I'll say it like this. If you love GT4 but want online play, you're more ungrateful than unworthy. Am I right? You can't have anything you want. Like when you marry soemone or date someone, if you love that other person intimately, you love her/him for who she/he is, and what she/he isn't. A person that can love something even if it isn't what a certain person exactly wants is a person who understands this situation perfectly and isn't whining like a baby who can't play around at a play ground. Love something for what it is and what it isn't. And in this sense, if you don't want to get GT4 with LAN online play, then that's fine. But you'll still be missing out. Oh yeah... Final Fantasy XI. The game was on PC with PS2 versions to follow. People had a choice. Get FFXI for PC, or wait for it on PS2. But at least online issues didn't mean the difference between success and failure.

 

[Sambert]

Beds at PD because they are LAZY? Come on now. If PD didn't give a flying crap about GT4, they'd release it since June 2004 with some of the glitches I heard about in Driv3r or some of the crashing in Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3.

John the lazy/in bed PD post was satirical mate. I thought that was obvious…
Just one other thing: We all appreciate posts of substance, yet it might be worth concentrating on being a little more succinct in future. I think you’ll find that more people will read your posts through…

 

[oxygenuk]

i see no point in getting gt4 now until it reaches below platinum price, keep us waiting all this time and it wont even have online mode anymore, bastards

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Talking in circles here!

The whole discussion about weather the AI has improved. Maybe a bit, but it remaines crap. This is something you can get your heads around, or not? Discussions like this are everywhere in the topic and are going nowhere.

 

[Cosmic]

I agree with John! Stop compalining ffs!
No online play? So? You will get it later.
And and about the Ai :
Can you make a better AI yourself then PD?

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Can you make a better AI yourself then PD?

No, but the team of Live for Speed can. And that consists of three people.

 

[Ruf CTR]

So you're saying we should drop manufacturers just for damage? Brilliant...

Who says you have to drop manufactuers to get damage??? What about Forza, which has the best manufactuers GT4 has to offer, and still have damage??? Sorry dude, but that's just an lame excuse for PD being lazy...

 

[Hajaz]

i think its more a technical limitation.
I mean, Forza has real damage and very realistic physics yes, but its only running at 30fps because of that. Its just that PD doesnt want to go and state something like "the ps2 isnt powerfull enough to do proper damage at 60fps"

I'll enjoy both games tho.

 

[Ruf CTR]

i think its more a technical limitation.
I mean, Forza has real damage and very realistic physics yes, but its only running at 30fps because of that. Its just that PD doesnt want to go and state something like "the ps2 isnt powerfull enough to do proper damage at 60fps".

That is what i was expecting to hear, not some bull**** about they will have to drop manufactuers.... But yeah i agree with you about the hardware limitations....

 

[shirakawaa]

The problem is that KY is a perfectionist, and if car damage has to be implemented in GT it has do be done right (i.e.: crashing against a wall at 200+ km/h will trash your car in a useless block of metal and plastic). The PS2 does not have the power for that, and most manufacturers do not want to show such amount of damage to their cars.

I personally wouldn't want to see in GT partial visual damage as seen in most games and probably as will be in Forza. It's almost as unrealistic as having no damage at all.

See here an Alfa Romeo 147 crashing at 64 km/h against a deformable structure (EuroNCAP Test)
http://www.sicurauto-video.it/56k/147.mpeg

It's hard with current technology to properly simulate crashes in a console racing game.

 

[Soman]

LOL perfectionist? Thats like the esccuse for fools, his team sucks at NetCode, and on making AI


If he was a perfectionist he would not have the AI in it....and it is NOT a simulation game, its a semi one...if it was a simulation and a good proper racing professional AIdo you think many people would be able to win races at all?

 

[Ruf CTR]

I personally wouldn't want to see in GT partial visual damage as seen in most games and probably as will be in Forza. It's almost as unrealistic as having no damage at all.

What if i told you that Forza has 3 types of damage:
1. Cosmetic damage
2. Limited damage
3. Fully simulated damage

It amazes me that you guys know so little about this amazing good game... Too bad...

 

[Soman]

Ye Forza Motorsports looks amazing, do yo know if there will be a good Racing Wheel?

 

[Ruf CTR]

Ye Forza Motorsports looks amazing, do yo know if there will be a good Racing Wheel?

At the moment, no.... that's the only thing wrong i can find in the game.... It's said that Madcatz will be making a custom Forza Wheel, but as the Xbox doesn't support ForceFeedback (it could if the Forza developers put FF on the Forza disc), it misses the experience of the Logitec wheel....

 

[code_kev]

John online play is hardly a tiny thing . Oh and PLEASE john, cut out the 400 word essay crap, what you said could have been condensed into so much less, we don't need all the "pd is a family" and a story about GT planet crap. Just get to the fricking point.

For those in a rush, here's a short version of Johns post.

"They may have stopped making an online mode, but I'm sure it will still be good. "

THAT'S ALL YOUR POST SAID JOHN.

If you love GT4 but want online play, you're more ungrateful than unworthy. Am I right?

Not if I'm paying £30 for the game I'm not .

 

[Cosmic]

Who says you have to drop manufactuers to get damage??? What about Forza, which has the best manufactuers GT4 has to offer, and still have damage??? Sorry dude, but that's just an lame excuse for PD being lazy...

The graphics tells everything

 

[Ruf CTR]

The graphics tells everything

What do you expect...?? Yes, GT4 hass overall better graphics (looks more real-life), but Forza has more detailed graphics, which all are created real-time, not pre-rendered....

Yeah, but unlike you, i don't buy a game b/c of it's graphics..... even if GT4 ends up with better graphics than Forza, i'll be getting the game... 1st place isn't the only good spot on the podium...

 

[Solid Fro]

but Forza has more detailed graphics, which all are created real-time, not pre-rendered....

What? Both are in real time. A matter of fact, ALL games are in real time.

 

[Ruf CTR]

What? Both are in real time. A matter of fact, ALL games are in real time.

Never mind..... You obviously do not know what i'm talking about....

 

[Solid Fro]

You're right, I do not. If you could form a sentence properly, then I just might be able to understand you.

Look up the definitions of real time rendering and pre-rendering.

 

[shirakawaa]

LOL perfectionist? Thats like the esccuse for fools, his team sucks at NetCode, and on making AI

If he was a perfectionist he would not have the AI in it....and it is NOT a simulation game, its a semi one...if it was a simulation and a good proper racing professional AIdo you think many people would be able to win races at all?

Perfectionist, simulation/car modelling wise, that is. There may be better racing games, or better AI, but the cars seen in GT are made by a perfectionist team.

What if i told you that Forza has 3 types of damage:
1. Cosmetic damage
2. Limited damage
3. Fully simulated damage

It amazes me that you guys know so little about this amazing good game... Too bad...

I was talking only about the visual aspect of crashes. It's not hard to believe that forza will have a very realistic crash damage simulation. In fact, I think Forza will be way better at this than GT4.

(visually speaking) If it will feature realistic crashes calculated in real-time, as real as the video I posted, it will be a revolutionary game. But it's unlikely going that far, too much processing involved (you don't have idea of the number of polygons and calculations you have to pull off to make something that realistic), and I won't believe until I see it.

Semi-precalculated, simplified but damage and visually wise overall realistic crashes in Forza? Yes.
Realtime calculated crashes with realistic chassis deformation, parts breakage, displacement, all different depending on material, etc. (all the things you'd expect from a real-life accident) ? Not possibile at this time.

 

[Famine]

Much of what you say is how you enjoyed the GT games. A bit harsh to say that this is the way of enjoying GT and being a real enthousiast. If you didn't mean it that way, please say so, but that is how your reaction comes over on me.

I said nothing of "being a real enthusiast". People who divide the world - including into "casual gamers" and "true gamers" - are idiots.

However, if you can suggest a better way of enjoying any given computer game than experiencing everything the game has to offer - before bemoaning what it doesn't offer - I'll be glad to hear it.


I'll lay odds that most of the people complaining that 50 tracks and 800 cars isn't a good enough reason to buy it, compared to online mode, don't race more than half of the circuits in GT3 and haven't driven every single car at least once. That's why it doesn't matter to them - they find a favourite few cars and don't care about the sheer breadth even GT3 offers with its mere 186 cars.

Instead of reacting like this, and actually lowering yourself to the level of some members here

I AM a member here. Do not for one second believe yourself to be at a higher "level" than anyone else.

you could try to imagine what effect this announcement has on people.

What effect? Oh, I forgot, whether a computer game that they don't have to play or buy, on a console they don't have to own includes a feature that they want is the single most important factor in their lives?

Come off it. If the lack of a true online mode in GT4 is the biggest worry you have this year I'm both envious of you and pity you.

Cancelling this (at least for the first version) rips apart the expectation of a lot of gamers

Yes - not living up to expectations is one of the worst things someone can do. But on the other hand, who is to blame for the level of expectation?

I've not read anything about GT4. I have no expectations of it - other than for it to have more cars and tracks and look prettier than GT4. I am not disappointed, because I haven't whipped myself up into a puerile frenzy about what is essentially a collection of 1s and 0s which look pretty.

I will not justify their reactions, but I can understand their emotions.

I cannot. It. Is. A. Computer. Game.

It's not like their dog just died. Unless it did - and that's not exactly PD's fault.

 

[Ruf CTR]

Let me clarify.... GT4 uses pre-rendered shadows, reflections etc., while Forza creates reflections real-time: my car shows reflections of other cars, real-time shadows.... This is what i meant to say, sorry if you couldn't figure that out, i guess you must be the only one....

SHIRAKAWA Akira, i agree with you, but that's what i like about the Forza devs; they are trying the best they can (i hope) with the hardware that they have...

 

[Solid Fro]

Let me clarify.... GT4 uses pre-rendered shadows, reflections etc.

Those "pre-rendered shadows" are just carefully placed textures. Why waste CPU cycles with real time shadow effects when all you have to do is make a texture bitmap?

GT4 uses real time reflections, which is a first for the GT series.

 

[Ruf CTR]

Those "pre-rendered shadows" are just carefully placed textures. Why waste CPU cycles with real time shadow effects when all you have to do is make a texture bitmap?

Like i said before, this is why Forza is more detailed.... Tell me which is more precise, "carefully placed textures" or real-time shadow effects??? If you're just a casual gamer, yes, it isn't noticable... but for a trained eye you WILL notice, that's the point, and it shows that the Forza devs aren't trying to fool the eye, whereas PD is doing so..... Anyway, let's get back ontopic....

 

[Famine]

Please tell me what gives you a "trained eye" to see what you consider as tromps des oeuix, but makes someone who doesn't see it - and instead prefers to play the damn game - a "casual gamer".

 

[Solid Fro]

Oh! GT4 is going to suck because it doesn't have real time shadows?

 

[nasanu]

How many people complaining about the lack of "true" online racing in this thread have actually bothered to drive every single car in GT3? How many of you have driven all of the Arcade cars - the ultimate levellers - and participated in online databases, such as those at GT3Times, Racing-Line and the Arcade Car Database at GT Racing Point, databases which are policed for cheats by eminantly qualified racers and replay verifiers to determine the very limits of human capability in the game? How many?

If you don't participate in these databases - which is basically the GT3/GTC/GT4P equivalent of what you'd call "true" online racing - what makes you think that any one of us who do would want to race online against you? How can you know how good you are unless you are racing against the glitterati of GT3 - Arco/Wiese, jmr, Max. E, Mr. P, Slowpoke and the like? What makes you think that online racing against a bunch of numpties whose idea of car control is smashing into you on the inside to turn a corner? Online racing for you will be a hollow experience - filled with hollow victories and hollow losses because you don't want to participate now, so the people who are actually any use don't want to participate against you in the future.


Now shut up your inane, brain-dead whining and be thankful for the game that is about to come out. And remember, the first Gran Turismo only came about as Kazunori Yamauchi wanted a decent racing game for himself. You don't have to buy it, but if you own a PS2 I suggest you probably should.

Inane, brain-dead whining? Powerfull words from a fanboy who is personally insulted when someone does not like something about GT.

I have done all of the things you have said above, i have all golds in every PAL GT game released, driven every car in all games and competed online (i was one of the origional people competing in GT at the GTF)... GT offline I have done it all. Now I have a question for you. Do you actually know what you are missing? Have you competed online? Truly online on xbox live or PC? I doubt it. Online play is not just a small bonus, its everything. Playing GT offline is NOT racing not matter what you call posting times on forums. Actually being able to directly compare your driving, being able to apply pressure and crack your opponent... This can not be reproduced offline and once you have tasted it you realise that playing offline really is pointless.

Sure I will still get GT, I will simply be a casual player dusting it off every now and then to take a test drive. But the game that will encapture me will hopefully be Forza.