Yoshida (Sony Japan) - "It’s going to take a few years for PD next Project"

[Griffith500]

Not one time have I mentioned seasonals or the amount of time they spend on any of it. I'm taking about additions like remote racing, mid championship saves, custom driving suits, adjustable transmissions, OCD and Seasonal events being added as an option (not the weekly update themselves), and whatever else has been added to the game through patches. These are all things that weren't in the original release (whether they should have been is a different issue) and have made the game better and a deeper experience.

@Griffith: is that last part directed at me?

My concept of respect extends only as far as "regard" or "consideration", and not, as it seems to for some people, to "obligation" or "reverence".

To answer you question, though: you didn't prompt me to write that, no.

 

[SkateNj]

hhhmmmm my primate lesser is back.
But i think PD made a major leap especially with the new 750pp seasonal for improving gt5.
ITS AWESOME!!!!

 

[sumbrownkid]

He's tweeting in Japanese (a language not widely spoken in the majority of countries GT5 is sold in)and it's rarely anything that's concrete or concise.

No you didn't say it was alot of work but you did make it out like the bug fixing (why the hell weren't they ironed out before release?) and seasonals was what has been taking up PD's time. We haven't even gotten mid race saves yet and it's unlikely we will before 2012 rolls upon us, fact is PD isn't doing anything remotely close to being an open book nor are they giving us anything other than 'possibles' (Kaz's tweets...).

That's a petty argument. And dude, fixing bugs is a lot more complicated than you think it is.

And so far, PD is respecting the the Hell of this game with their fixes and updates. I do agree that PD can be more vocal on what they are doing, but perhaps they like the secrecy and try not to pile on more public pressure.

 

[Jack002]

Why are people asking about GT6? It took years for 5 to come out. We heard about it in 08 and 09. Its not been out a year and needs a 6 now?

 

[Spagetti69]

Why are people asking about GT6? It took years for 5 to come out. We heard about it in 08 and 09. Its not been out a year and needs a 6 now?

I think people expected 6 to follow around 18 months to 2 years later TBH.
No one is saying it should come out tomorrow.

 

[Tenacious D]

Fixing bugs and writing some code for the seasonals is really alot of work isn't it? Hardly....getting no communication or signs of anything actually new and worthwhile is showing a lack of respect to paying customers...

This fibbing is really getting old.

There are interviews with game developers concerning new projects. Kazunori and others in SONY are being interviewed as well.

There are interviews with game developers concerning completed projects which are still being worked on. Kazunori and others in SONY are being interviewed as well.

Developers are releasing tidbits of news on Facebook and other social networking tools. So is Kazunori.

There are gaming blogs where developers release news of games receiving updates and add-ons. The Playstation Blog is one source of Gran Turismo news, with a number of articles. We get a lot of Gran Turismo news here.

SOME developers host sites in which some of the devs themselves participate in dialog, but usually this is just through a community support person. And this is certainly not universally true. Many devs simply don't have any contact with the public at all.

If you don't like what you're getting, then why are you happy with what others are doing the same way?

 

[axl54]

@Tenacious D, every other major studio employs at least one community manager, to relay feedback from the studio to the fans and vice versa,
It is ****ing ridiculous that PD don't do this!, millions of customers, waiting for the next translation from Kaz's twitter account, it's a complete joke.

I've never seen any news re gt5 updates on the PS Blog, the official website
is filled with info on the academy and Kaz's racing exploits, and almost never has any information on what PD are up to game wise etc (apart from the seasonals),
I think it's an incredibly unprofessional way to act.

 

[robbo6]

@Tenacious D, every other major studio employs at least one community manager, to relay feedback from the studio to the fans and vice versa,
It is ****ing ridiculous that PD don't do this!, millions of customers, waiting for the next translation from Kaz's twitter account, it's a complete joke.

I've never seen any news re gt5 updates on the PS Blog, the official website
is filled with info on the academy and Kaz's racing exploits, and almost never has any information on what PD are up to game wise etc (apart from the seasonals),
I think it's an incredibly unprofessional way to act.

Thats true.....my news comes form here, an unafiliated site. I truly think that PD and Kaz don't have much interest in listening to the American and European fanbase.

 

[mcfizzle]

I think it's an incredibly unprofessional way to act.

Don't confuse lack of communication with being unprofessional. If he told us all f off through a tweet that would be unprofessional.

He is apparently more of an old school developer when it comes to releasing info. I can remember when we only received news on games after game shows and when a developer did an interview with a game magazine. That way is fine by me but many people expect constant updates and access to the developer now a days I guess. Maybe people need to write Chris whatever his name was from SCEA, the guy that spoke at shows, and tell him we need more info.

 

[axl54]

We'll have to disagree because I think the lack of clear communication is unprofessional these days.

 

[finnracer]

I think somebody's just a little annoyed that Kaz isn't PR obssesed like a certain Dan Greenawalt. Business can be done in many ways and before you doubt Kaz's methods have a look at some sales figures...

(also +1 to the oldschool comment )

 

[Griffith500]

"Oldschool" is interesting. There have been a number of PC games this year that have just "appeared" with a month or two, or few, to go before release. That kinda reminded me of the good old days. Contrast with DX:HR which we've had trailer after trailer for for the last year or so. It gets boring! Well, it would have, if I'd actually watched them. As a fan of the series, I want to be surprised.

Brink was another culprit. Yet Modern Warfare 3 has been surprisingly quiet since the "leaked" trailers were officially released. Does it make a difference?

 

[Tenacious D]

@Tenacious D, every other major studio employs at least one community manager, to relay feedback from the studio to the fans and vice versa

Says you. I happen to habit a few developer sites. Take the Sucker Punch boards. As far as I know, the admins there are in contact with SP themselves, but they give almost NO info to us whatsoever, at least in regard the Sly Cooper side. Maybe they're so giddy over the love for inFamous that they pop in from time to time and thumb wrestle with the fans, but I'm doubtful. On the Sly Cooper side, we heard zilch from SP for six years. And I have similar stories to tell from a number of other boards, such as Valve. They don't say much about what they're working on for future release, except for a select few companies.

Taking your fun times from a few developers and applying it to all of them isn't going to fly very far with someone with some actual experience under his belt.

 

[axl54]

Well at least they have a community manager + admins that communicate directly to the fans - even if it's not to your satisfaction.

 

[mcfizzle]

Well at least they have a community manager + admins that communicate directly to the fans - even if it's not to your satisfaction.

See what's funny about what you just wrote and were saying before is that PD does communicate directly with its fans through twitter, it's just not to your satisfaction.

 

[Sier_Pinski]

I'm just going to take a quick guess here and say that PD's next project may be a Gran Turismo game for PS Vita, not GT6.

 

[jjaisli]

Says you. I happen to habit a few developer sites. Take the Sucker Punch boards. As far as I know, the admins there are in contact with SP themselves, but they give almost NO info to us whatsoever, at least in regard the Sly Cooper side. Maybe they're so giddy over the love for inFamous that they pop in from time to time and thumb wrestle with the fans, but I'm doubtful. On the Sly Cooper side, we heard zilch from SP for six years. And I have similar stories to tell from a number of other boards, such as Valve. They don't say much about what they're working on for future release, except for a select few companies.

Taking your fun times from a few developers and applying it to all of them isn't going to fly very far with someone with some actual experience under his belt.

But some developers DO communicate with fans through an open and OFFICAL porthole. And the communities are better for it. Because you can point to others who don't, does that make it better? No, Tenacious, it makes it WORSE! I'm always amazed how GT fans can defend the indefensible.

See what's funny about what you just wrote and were saying before is that PD does communicate directly with its fans through twitter, it's just not to your satisfaction.

The thing is, PD does NOT communicate directly with it's fans through twitter. Kaz happens to have a personal twitter account, where occasionally, he'll answer a few tweets, in Japanese. This is a far cry from having an open forum where they:
- announce EXACTLY what was in each update.
- announce what's coming in the next update.
- listen and consider feedback from their customers what they would like in the next update.
- communicate with those fans what they can and can not do or, what Sony will or won't allow them to do.

I'm happy Kaz tweets. If he didn't, we wouldn't get any information at all. But what's wrong with simply having this go through an official PD forum? Yes, there are pros and cons and I'm sure some of the more rabid GT fans cringe at the idea of people "complaining" about the game on an official GT forum for the world to see. But that's the way it's done with more modern and progressive companies who are truly interested in providing customer service. In this, PD and Sony could learn a hard lesson.

 

[Griffith500]

But some developers DO communicate with fans through an open and OFFICAL porthole. And the communities are better for it. Because you can point to others who don't, does that make it better? No, Tenacious, it makes it WORSE! I'm always amazed how GT fans can defend the indefensible.


The thing is, PD does NOT communicate directly with it's fans through twitter. Kaz happens to have a personal twitter account, where occasionally, he'll answer a few tweets, in Japanese. This is a far cry from having an open forum where they:
- announce EXACTLY what was in each update.
- announce what's coming in the next update.
- listen and consider feedback from their customers what they would like in the next update.
- communicate with those fans what they can and can not do or, what Sony will or won't allow them to do.

I'm happy Kaz tweets. If he didn't, we wouldn't get any information at all. But what's wrong with simply having this go through an official PD forum? Yes, there are pros and cons and I'm sure some of the more rabid GT fans cringe at the idea of people "complaining" about the game on an official GT forum for the world to see. But that's the way it's done with more modern and progressive companies who are truly interested in providing customer service. In this, PD and Sony could learn a hard lesson.

You're right, it could be better, they could have dedicated "community managers" (sounds like they want to be shepherds) and so on. For some reason, the only thing that really bothers me in that list is the missing / incomplete patch notes. I don't mind the patches just appearing, but then I've been a PC gamer for years, so I'm used to it. Is this the difference?

I can see the industry is moving in a different direction, for better and for worse, but, again, it really doesn't bother me. I just like to play games.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Since when did a two year release cycle become a bad thing for games (of any kind)?

Depends on what is actually accomplished.
Unfortunately, in this console gen with maybe an exception here or there, usually not much.

I would say that is a better proposition than being stuck with a product for three - five years, not knowing when the product you were told you were going to get will actually arrive, I'm sure there are a few GT5's on the used shelves because people are bored of waiting for "that patch or that DLC".

People also expect an adequate amount of quality content on a 5-6 year time cycle as well, not two or three more years with "trickle down content" in an effort to shore up, in many respects, a bum game .

My concept of respect extends only as far as "regard" or "consideration", and not, as it seems to for some people, to "obligation" or "reverence".

This comment speaks volumes.

I can see the industry is moving in a different direction, for better and for worse, but, again, it really doesn't bother me. I just like to play games.

It is moving in this direction.
GT5 IMO is a prime example and it is definitely for the worse.

I like to play good, well concieved, well implemented, and well developed from the start games, not a hodge podge of string along damage control patches and masked "additional content".

As far as old school, Kaz seems to have left that reservation with GT5.
But it also seems he hasn't enrolled anywhere else, as of yet.

 

[VetteZR1]

Can't wait for GT-6 so all the crybabys can rev up their tearducts. Some people are never satisfied with what they get. Sure GT-5 has some holes but it's the best thing going at the moment. All this talk of the game not having this or that will be brought up again when GT-6 comes out.

 

[Griffith500]

This comment speaks volumes.

You might be reading too much into it.

...

It is moving in this direction.
GT5 IMO is a prime example and it is definitely for the worse.

I like to play good, well concieved, well implemented, and well developed from the start games, not a hodge podge of string along damage control patches and masked "additional content".

As far as old school, Kaz seems to have left that reservation with GT5.
But it also seems he hasn't enrolled anywhere else, as of yet.

Well, I wasn't commenting about the "quality" of GT5 itself, I think that's been beaten to death. I do admit I wish it was more consolidated, consistent and polished than it was at release, and still is.

All I was saying is, I don't need my hand holding about what to expect - I can manage that for myself. Vague release notes, though, do annoy me - but that's probably only because I'm used to detailed changelogs from past experiences. Similarly, Steam is constantly updating my games, but it rarely says why these days (it used to have logs for all updates), and that annoys the hell out of me.

So yeah, for better, and for worse.

 

[robbo6]

Can't wait for GT-6 so all the crybabys can rev up their tearducts.

It would be almost worth it to hear that PD went bust and the GT franchise forever consigned to history, just to shut people like you up.

 

[paskowitz]

Don't confuse lack of communication with being unprofessional. If he told us all f off through a tweet that would be unprofessional.

He is apparently more of an old school developer when it comes to releasing info. I can remember when we only received news on games after game shows and when a developer did an interview with a game magazine. That way is fine by me but many people expect constant updates and access to the developer now a days I guess. Maybe people need to write Chris whatever his name was from SCEA, the guy that spoke at shows, and tell him we need more info.

No. I am sorry. In this day and age, with this high a profile title. It is wrong. I go back to the MGS4 example. MGS4 had a terrific community manager, Ryan Payton. Kojima productions is no less closed off than PD, yet they interacted with their fans for over 2 years before the game came out. This directly made MGS4 a better game. Then after it was released the backlash to MGO was closely monitored and fixes were made every month.

Then there are the games with official forums that the devs constantly visit and reply to:
F1 2010
DiRT series
FM series
COD
BF
etc.

These games are all made better by this high level of interaction. Just now are we seeing actual communication from PD. There are so many little things that could have been made better if they had been a little more forthcoming and open in their communication.



Moving more on topic. I really hope this improves for GT6.

 

[Perkel]

One thing Sony should consider is to make GT an pure online game where you don't buy game only subscription. Thanks to that they could just add things faster.

Problem is system that changes every 5-7 years.

 

[TP1]

One thing Sony should consider is to make GT an pure online game where you don't buy game only subscription. Thanks to that they could just add things faster.

It's called iRacing.

Gran Turismo is mosly a single-player experience.

 

[R34EVO9]

No, that is not the case. Usually, when you are hiring a specialist of some kind you do want him/her to identify with the culture, mission and values of the company you're working for, as well as to excel in each and every technical aspect of the job he will be performing. Also, you want to make sure that the new professional get along well with the team, so you do perform some micro-management to ensure the team is coping with the new member well.

Imagine now that you are adding five dozens of people to PD's offices within a month, how do these specialists blend with the existing workforce? How are their tasks organized and set? Who will induct and train them on the adaption stages?

See? That alone takes a lot of disallocation of workforce to train and accompany these new guys until they are a hundred percent at home, and mainly, demand a whole new lot of management to be done. You can't hire specialists in a hurry, the same goes for managers.

Point is, although you did raise up a valid question ( one that I did ask here many times too ), the expansion you're talking about is a huge step, couple that to the quake/tsunami events in Japan and all the rush in delivering new content ( mostly led by Forza 4's debut, I presume ), and that sort of reengineering is quite hard to be done right now.

Sorry for the huge post, I've had some experience in project management in my last two jobs and I just like to share some thoughts on the subject.

I honestly expect GT6 to be an expanded version of GT5, much like GT4 was in relation to GT3. Not much different, only bigger and fixed in some points.

Yea I see where your coming from but haven't they had this same 150 guys for sometime now>??

 

[Dan_]

Ooops... Double post, sorry.

 

[Dan_]

You've read only the last part of the discussion, it's clear that PD have 150 employess, I was commenting on the suggestions for a huge expansion on their workforce.

It's called iRacing.

Gran Turismo is mosly a single-player experience.

I agree, GT4 was a stunning game mostly because it's A-Spec mode was awesome. GT5 lacks career mode events and that's one of it's flaws too.

 

[VetteZR1]

It would be almost worth it to hear that PD went bust and the GT franchise forever consigned to history, just to shut people like you up.

Spoken like a true crybaby

 

[MitchZ06]

Spoken like a true troll. Move aside would ya?