Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 626 30.5%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 17.9%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,059 51.6%

  • Total voters
    2,052
Love this thread!
Quick video here covering some points being made in this thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRY-QSPAn7M&list=LLial70msHxtQIJYCOQAZ2NQ

Nothing I haven't heard before. Just fallacies that fall apart under scrutiny.

Well then I will suggest something more science based. It is a 5 part video and a bit lengthy, but I will give you major credit for watching proper Christian material other then those not qualified speaking for Christians as a whole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHZrSuXZkY

I stopped watching after "Discovery Institute" 39 seconds in (I knew I recognized Meyer's name, and that reminded me why).
 
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Well then I will suggest something more science based. It is a 5 part video and a bit lengthy, but I will give you major credit for watching proper Christian material other then those not qualified speaking for Christians as a whole.

So are you now saying you are qualified to state what is properly Christian? Along with stating who is and isn't qualified to speak for Christians?

Just how much have you spoon fed, geez...

As for Meyers, there is a reason why he isn't taken seriously by the scientific community. Oddly enough because he doesn't use science to support his claims for Intelligent Design.
 
Consistency in Doctrine would support Biblical Christianity would it not? Some people are so bold to claim you can go to heaven without faith in Christ which is un biblical and not Christian.

No I am not saying I have the final word in whats "Christian" if I did I would be Catholic and a aspiring pope ;)
 
" You (atheists) speak about logic and reason. You trust the laws of logic have order and meaning. Like firing up your computer and trusting a particular software will work every single time. But you can't explain why. And you expect me to take your arguments seriously? You have to borrow from my worldview, my capital, for yours to even stand up. I can explain why the universe has order. If there wasn't order science would be impossible. Logic impossible. Your faith is blind." -theocratickingdom30

I can't put it much better then that.

Why, because "God" says so? :dunce:
 
Consistency in Doctrine would support Biblical Christianity would it not? Some people are so bold to claim you can go to heaven without faith in Christ which is un biblical and not Christian.

I'm so bold to claim there is no heaven. And if there was, I'd rather not have to deal with such a petty and trivial God. I grew sick of Christianity because of the many problems within it, before you even start looking at all the scientific problems.

But to add onto your un-Biblical bit, there are a lot of religions that have "Heaven" and do not require faith in Christ. And some of them are rather popular...
 
Ahh now you are catching on!!! I wonder is it accepted on here that there isn't any historical evidence for the life of Christ? It's good to know at what level of honest discussion I am in for.
 
Well then I will suggest something more science based. It is a 5 part video and a bit lengthy, but I will give you major credit for watching proper Christian material other then those not qualified speaking for Christians as a whole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHZrSuXZkY
I will give it a watch when I have time (most likely tomorrow night).



Avoiding what? The fact you don't like things that God does?
I've not yet seen any evidence for god at all, let alone him/her doing anything.


I will re read other posts and look for posts I can respond to. In the mean time please give an account for your world view without a God and how you can trust anything? For example why would you trust a highly evolved monkeys brain? That is what Darwin questioned.
Could you please cite Darwin stating that and stop banging on about highly evolved monkey brains, we did not evolve from monkeys, nor does evolutionary theory state that, you are simply showing a stunning lack of knowledge with comments of this nature.

I also don't understand why I need a god to trust anything? What exactly would a god do to provide me with any trust in anything? As a statement that makes no sense at all


As a channel I am subscribed to on youtube put it " You (atheists) speak about logic and reason. You trust the laws of logic have order and meaning. Like firing up your computer and trusting a particular software will work every single time. But you can't explain why. And you expect me to take your arguments seriously? You have to borrow from my worldview, my capital, for yours to even stand up. I can explain why the universe has order. If there wasn't order science would be impossible. Logic impossible. Your faith is blind." -theocratickingdom30

I can't put it much better then that.
The universe doesn't have order, so your starting with a false premise on that one (so a nice logical fallacy to start with) and I find it rather rich that a religion that has borrowed the vast majority of its concepts from other older religions and sources has the gall to state that we borrow its worldview and capital.

Take the 'golden rule'......

""Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.""

....that version is one of the earlier ones, from Confucius a good six centuries prior to the NT verses of Mathew and Luke, of course the Babylon had a concept of reciprocity as far back as 1780 BC. Yet Christianity rather often likes to try and take the credit for that one.

Its a central tenet of moral behavior, and yet has common routes over the entire globe, many of which predate the bible and many of which are secular.

So no gods and religion are not required for moral values and Christianity most certainly doesn't have a lock on it in any shape or form.
 
Every time this thread gets active I'm optimistic the convo won't be revolving around the bible, every time I'm disappointed.

Oh well, it was much more thought provoking with Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah :lol:
 
I will give it a watch when I have time (most likely tomorrow night).




I've not yet seen any evidence for god at all, let alone him/her doing anything.



Could you please cite Darwin stating that and stop banging on about highly evolved monkey brains, we did not evolve from monkeys, nor does evolutionary theory state that, you are simply showing a stunning lack of knowledge with comments of this nature.

I also don't understand why I need a god to trust anything? What exactly would a god do to provide me with any trust in anything? As a statement that makes no sense at all



The universe doesn't have order, so your starting with a false premise on that one (so a nice logical fallacy to start with) and I find it rather rich that a religion that has borrowed the vast majority of its concepts from other older religions and sources has the gall to state that we borrow its worldview and capital.

Take the 'golden rule'......

""Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself.""

....that version is one of the earlier ones, from Confucius a good six centuries prior to the NT verses of Mathew and Luke, of course the Babylon had a concept of reciprocity as far back as 1780 BC. Yet Christianity rather often likes to try and take the credit for that one.

Its a central tenet of moral behavior, and yet has common routes over the entire globe, many of which predate the bible and many of which are secular.

So no gods and religion are not required for moral values and Christianity most certainly doesn't have a lock on it in any shape or form.

Here is the Darwin quote from a letter he sent to William Graham July 3rd 1881,
"But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

If you wish to get a better context below is a suitable link.
http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-13230
 
Well you can say i believe in a God, but not exactly how i was taught to believe. I am technically a christian but i believe that God is our Universe, not a being who created the 10 commandments and so on. This is my idea of a God and i respect everyone's personal opinion on this matter.

Also, would this belief make me agnostic?
 
Here is the Darwin quote from a letter he sent to William Graham July 3rd 1881,
"But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

If you wish to get a better context below is a suitable link.
http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-13230

In other words, you are arguing that the convictions in your mind are untrustworthy? Gotcha.

Fortunately, for the rest of us, we don't have to rely on the "untrustworthy convictions" of our minds, since we have devised a method to objectively sort truth from falsehood. One that provides the same answer, whoever uses it.

Science.
 
WOW I can't believe you really just missed the entire point. Care to explain how your understanding of science wouldn't fall into that category? It is idiotic to point at science and proclaim THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS... Just not that simple! Remember it is the theory of evolution with many problems and doesn't hold water very well.

I myself don't have to worry about such things as Darwin because I have a God that forms the basis for argumentation. I can stand here and say that wrong and right do exist, that we can rely upon our conscious mind to relay proper information to us. If you take God out of the equation you are saying from the irrational we get the rational. Where do you see that in this world?
 
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Yes the theory of evolution is clearly full of problems and doesn't hold water yet it has survived over 150 years and every single piece of evidence found has SUPPORTED and EXPANDED it. Seems legit.
 
Remember it is the theory of evolution with many problems and doesn't hold water very well.

You bolded the important part. Theory basically means it's sound, it's not a hypothesis which something that does not have evidence supporting it.

I can stand here and say that wrong and right do exist, that we can rely upon our conscious mind to relay proper information to us.
You can say it, but what is missing is evidence. If everything goes back to God, it basically leaves you without an answer because God isn't proven.

If you take God out of the equation you are saying from the irrational we get the rational. Where do you see that in this world?
What makes God rational? He's a completely unnecessary extra step that is also often self contradicting.

A video from before said that everything with a beginning needs a creator. Where is God's creator? Is it because he never began? Then why did the universe need to begin? If we're going with eternals, it's much easier to accept the universe being eternal. At least we know the universe exists.
 
WOW I can't believe you really just missed the entire point. Care to explain how your understanding of science wouldn't fall into that category? It is idiotic to point at science and proclaim THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS... Just not that simple! Remember it is the theory of evolution with many problems and doesn't hold water very well.

I myself don't have to worry about such things as Darwin because I have a God that forms the basis for argumentation. I can stand here and say that wrong and right do exist, that we can rely upon our conscious mind to relay proper information to us. If you take God out of the equation you are saying from the irrational we get the rational. Where do you see that in this world?

Because several different people can use scientific reasoning and come up with the same answer*, based on the same evidence, regardless of race, religion or background, because the proofs are there for everyone to see?

Whereas no two denominations (or even theologians within the same denomination) can completely agree on the Bible?

Tell me, do you refrain from wearing anything but pure wool undergarments, or are you just as heretical as the rest of us who wear cotton boxers with nylon waistbands? :D

"Science" is not a belief. It's way of thinking that demands you show your proof and that such proof is reproducible.

"Irrational"? Where did you get the idea that the Universe is irrational?


*Unless of course, you're a proponent of ID and selectively censor and misinterpret the evidence to support your delusions.
 
Here is the Darwin quote from a letter he sent to William Graham July 3rd 1881,
"But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

If you wish to get a better context below is a suitable link.
http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/entry-13230

Wow did you actually do that!

Now this thread is full of links that contain examples of quote mining, but its not often someone is brazen enough to go for it in the thread itself, yet we have just such an example now.

You said (and I quote directly):

xxxdisciplexxx
For example why would you trust a highly evolved monkeys brain? That is what Darwin questioned.

Now what Darwin actually said (context aside as we will come to than in a minute) was:

Darwin
Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?

Now you've changed one word (mind to brain) thus changing the meaning as the brain is an organ and the mind is a much more abstract concept, and then added in two words (highly evolved) that utterly change the meaning of it and assign a position to Darwin that we know he did not hold (a highly evolved monkey brain doesn't exist as monkey are right now at their current state of evolution - we are going to need to wait a while to see how monkey brains evolve for quite a while).

Now that's without the fact that you have taken the quote utterly out of context by omitting the preceding part of the letter, so lets take a look at teh whole letter shall we:

Darwin
Dear Sir

I hope that you will not think it intrusive on my part to thank you heartily for the pleasure which I have derived from reading your admirably written `Creed of Science,’ though I have not yet quite finished it, as now that I am old I read very slowly. It is a very long time since any other book has interested me so much. The work must have cost you several years and much hard labour with full leisure for work. You would not probably expect anyone fully to agree with you on so many abstruse subjects; and there are some points in your book which I cannot digest. The chief one is that the existence of so-called natural laws implies purpose. I cannot see this. Not to mention that many expect that the several great laws will some day be found to follow inevitably from some one single law, yet taking the laws as we now know them, and look at the moon, what the law of gravitation — and no doubt of the conservation of energy — of the atomic theory, &c. &c. hold good, and I cannot see that there is then necessarily any purpose. Would there be purpose if the lowest organisms alone destitute of consciousness existed in the moon? But I have had no practice in abstract reasoning and I may be all astray. Nevertheless you have expressed my inward conviction, though far more vividly and clearly than I could have done, that the Universe is not the result of chance. But then with me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man’s mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey’s mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind? Secondly I think that I could make somewhat of a case against the enormous importance which you attribute to our greatest men: I have been accustomed to think, 2nd, 3rd and 4th rate men of very high importance, at least in the case of Science.

Lastly I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilisation than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risks the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is. The more civilised so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilised races throughout the world. But I will write no more, and not even mention the many points in your work which have much interested me. I have indeed cause to apologise for troubling you with my impressions, and my sole excuse is the excitement in my mind which your book has aroused.

I beg leave to remain | Dear Sir | Yours faithfully and obliged Charles Darwin.

I've highlighted the part you (mis)quoted in bold and taken in context its actually a rebuttal to the argument (that oddly you hold) that the universe has order and purpose.


Quite frankly your original post smacks of either an attempt to deliberately mislead (which the AUP you agreed to is quite clear is not permitted) or of massive ignorance of the position Darwin held and the theory of evolution.

If I were to do the same with a bible quote, so say change:

Thou shall not kill

to

Thou shall not kill any Jews

I'm fairly certain that you would be up in arms and protest that I had utterly misrepresented by the context and meaning of the quote. Yet that is exactly what you have done.

Quite honestly the above conduct is far from what would be expected in this discussion, does you no credit at all and is not the conduct we would expect from a member. Please ensure you don't repeat it.

After all its not as if your the first:

http://sensuouscurmudgeon.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/a-preacher-quote-mines-darwin/
 
Sorry but the theory you have adapted follows the train of thinking that everything came from nothing still. Time and chance do not amount to anything on their own so don't go there.

You are borrowing the Christian world view to debate it! Who is what now? The idea that you can have order, reasoning, and laws from a chaotic event is silly! Please start with that then put your trust in the scientific method that further proves the existence of God. The fact that you can study things in such a way with intellect is a God given gift. If you deny these natural laws or the fact that life on earth is a miracle on its own evaluate your stance further.

You want a God made Universe without the God. Salvation is of the Lord, one who is talked into Christianity can be talked out of it. I understand that you will remain blind until God gives you eyes to see. That is how it works, so I feel no major burden of proof.

With that said it would be nice for you to explain where the order in the Cosmos came from?

If you truly see me smearing the quote purposely you are wrong and I am sorry you feel that way. In fact I feel I gave a decent account for a fact I heard 2 months ago. I spent a bit of time searching for that quote for you to validate my point that even Darwin questioned the reliability of his mind to a extent.

Also are you proposing I have been on that site you linked before or something? I may have missed your point but I've never been on it before if that is what you are saying.
 
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Kinda like theoretical physicists?

If we're discussing what lies outside the Universe, theorists will admit that it's all hypothetical. But if we're talking quantum physics, many of the predicted phenomena have been verified.

With that said it would be nice for you to explain where the order in the Cosmos came from?

And here I thought you said the Cosmos was irrational?
 
You link science to a single voice as if it has spoken in regards to evolution. Are you trying to mix about? The Darwin article is interesting but was the conclusion really just Darwin doesn't doubt evolution we know that? Yikes

Scaff really... You can't possibly be thinking you A) disproved my point of concern in that letter
or
B)It is so clear I went on this smear campaign

If that is how you handle something of this nature how can you live among humans? That can't honestly be your first impression of my post.
 
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Sorry but the theory you have adapted follows the train of thinking that everything came from nothing still. Time and chance do not amount to anything on their own so don't go there.
No it doesn't.

Your assigning a position to me I have never made and it would be appreciated if you stopped doing so, I have never stated such a position nor is it an accurate one.

Yet it is unsurprisingly one that theists like to try and assign to atheists (incorrectly):

http://liberatedmind.com/2009/10/can-something-come-from-nothing/



You are borrowing the Christian world view to debate it! Who is what now? The idea that you can have order, reasoning, and laws from a chaotic event is silly! Please start with that then put your trust in the scientific method that further proves the existence of God. The fact that you can study things in such a way with intellect is a God given gift. If you deny these natural laws or the fact that life on earth is a miracle on its own evaluate your stance further.
What am I borrowing from the Christian world view?

You've stated this as if it were fact a number of times now, but seem to be unable to say exactly what it is I have 'borrowed'.

You are also making a huge number of assumptions (god given intellect, science proves god (please provide this), life on earth is a miracle (from god one assumes you mean)), yet are not able to provide any citations to back this up at all.


You want a God made Universe without the God. Salvation is of the Lord, one who is talked into Christianity can be talked out of it. I understand that you will remain blind until God gives you eyes to see. That is how it works, so I feel no major burden of proof.
I don't want a "God made Universe without the God" as not a shred of evidence exists that the Universe was made by god, as such to assign that position to me is patently ridiculous. Don't attempt to imprint your own belief on me and then use it as proof.

I also find it odd that religion enforces an unchanging doctrine on its followers (I have to assume you take the bible literally as you have not yet answered that question yet), while science demands the questioning of everything, yet I'm the one who need 'eyes'.


With that said it would be nice for you to explain where the order in the Cosmos came from?
Why does it need to come from 'something' and if it does and we don't currently fully understand what that is does 'GOD' (any of them) automatically become the default answer?

You seem to be saying that if science can't (yet) fully explain it then the answer must be god (and the video you posted clearly says as much), so why must it be your god?


If you truly see me smearing the quote purposely you are wrong and I am sorry you feel that way. In fact I feel I gave a decent account for a fact I heard 2 months ago. I spent a bit of time searching for that quote for you to validate my point that even Darwin questioned the reliability of his mind to a extent.

Also are you proposing I have been on that site you linked before or something? I may have missed your point but I've never been on it before if that is what you are saying.
I'm not proposing that you used that site, I used it as a single example (many more exists) that this is a commonly quote-mined piece from Darwin, you simply managed to take it to another level by not just omitting the context but adding in two entire words and changing the total meaning.

Do I believe you stumbled across the original quote and then accidentally mis-used it? Well while that is possible given the other links and material you have provided I think it far more likely that you have simply upped teh ante on a piece of quote-mining you had already found on a Creationist site and taken as 'fact' without actually checking its validity. Its not possible to prove either way and quite frankly its irreverent, you miss-quoted and its been corrected, that is enough.


If that is how you handle something of this nature how can you live among humans? That can't honestly be your first impression of my post.
You get one warning on this - you resort to personal attacks and digs again and you will be gone. You asked for these discussion to remain civil and yet you are the one pushing that boundary repeatedly.
 
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Sorry but the theory you have adapted follows the train of thinking that everything came from nothing still. Time and chance do not amount to anything on their own so don't go there.

If you can provide any evidence that proves "time and chance do not amount to anything on their own", now is the time to do so.

Here's what I suspect:

1) You don't have any
2) You wouldn't know what to look for even if you wanted some

You're doing exactly what so many other people adept in biblical knowledge but sorely lacking in scientific knowledge have done before in this thread (and the CvE one). You've picked up on token phrases like "we evolved from monkeys", "everything came from nothing", "the universe is ordered", all of which are simplistic and essentially meaningless.

You then attribute meaning to them (based on misunderstanding and lack of knowledge) and come to the conclusion that even the most developed scientific theory is less convincing than "god did it". And in fairness, you're right: "we evolved from monkeys" is nonsensical, but since that isn't how we evolved and we have much more accurate theories to describe that, then it doesn't matter that it's nonsensical.

***

"Time and chance do not amount to anything on their own" is another incredibly simplistic phrase. It's another phrase that appears convincing because the concept behind it makes little sense, but that's because it's been hugely over-simplified from the reality.

Over vast, vast time periods, the tiniest, most imperceptible change can make a huge difference. The fact we'll all grow old and die at some point illustrates that on a small scale. Cells in our bodies replace themselves nearly constantly. We don't feel ourselves ageing (other than occasionally waking up in the morning with a new ailment) but it's still happening. Visually, you can only witness it over extended time periods, or witness it in people you know if you only ever see them every ten years. But just because you can't see it day to day, that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Now expand the average 80-90 year lifespan over billions of years. It may take, hundreds of thousands of years for something in the universe to visually change, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening. Of course "time" can amount to things on its own, if you have enough of it. Everything in the universe is at the mercy of time, to one extent or another. Everything travels through time in the same direction. The universe is an increasingly disordered place. Entropy increases. It only looks "constant" and "ordered" because we're witnessing a mere fraction of it. Massive distances and timescales don't make sense to the human mind. Some people (like yourself) seem to dismiss it as a result.

Likewise, "chance". Dangerous word. Does indeed imply that something can come from nothing. But implying this would also be inaccurate.

Again, imagine something ordered. Let's say, a pack of cards. Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts and Spades, each suit in order. In a perfect, ordered universe, you would always know what card came next. You might even be tempted to bet a large sum of money, always knowing you'd guess the right card. On "chance" alone, the order would never change.

But we've already established that the universe isn't ordered. It's not like a perfectly shuffled pack of cards. Imagine betting everything you own that you know the pack of cards is ordered. Perhaps the first few cards have been in order - a small window of consistency, just like we have when witnessing our small window of time on the universe. Except, the universe isn't ordered. Nor are the cards. After the six of clubs, there's an element of disorder - a seven of diamonds. You lose all your money. And learn that what appears to be an ordered system is nothing of the sort - the tiniest, tiniest change (a mis-placed card, an imbalance in the embryotic, tightly-packed universe) can have huge consequences - you lose all your money, or the universe comes from apparently "nothing".

***

"Time" and "chance" are entirely subjective. And a subjective view of each is not the basis for an argument as to why our current theories of the universe are wrong. And it certainly isn't, by process of elimination, proof that God made the universe instead.
 
You get one warning on this - you resort to personal attacks and digs again and you will be gone. You asked for these discussion to remain civil and yet you are the one pushing that boundary repeatedly.

He is a noob not yet practiced at the art of passive aggression.
 
Well you can say i believe in a God, but not exactly how i was taught to believe. I am technically a christian but i believe that God is our Universe, not a being who created the 10 commandments and so on. This is my idea of a God and i respect everyone's personal opinion on this matter.

Also, would this belief make me agnostic?

You would be defined more as a "theist", someone who believes in an undefined god, unless you were uncertain about that god's existence, in which case you'd become an "agnostic theist".
 
Well you can say i believe in a God, but not exactly how i was taught to believe. I am technically a christian but i believe that God is our Universe, not a being who created the 10 commandments and so on. This is my idea of a God and i respect everyone's personal opinion on this matter.

Also, would this belief make me agnostic?

DK
You would be defined more as a "theist", someone who believes in an undefined god, unless you were uncertain about that god's existence, in which case you'd become an "agnostic theist".

I'd call it deist.
 
xxxdisciplexxx, I strongly urge you to at least skim through this entire thread and also the CvE thread. Yeah it's over 17,000 posts combined so I can understand anyone not wanting to read each and every one of them, but please skim through them to get the gist of what's already been discussed. For instance, your Darwin [mis]quote has come up before. You'd learn that anything sourced to the Discovery Institute will be met with derision, and (more importantly) why it will be met with derision. You'd also find that some of us are far more knowledgeable than you're giving us credit for, although I believe that you're already beginning to realize that.

Above all please keep in mind that this is a discussion. If a question is asked in good faith, it deserves an answer also in good faith.
 
Scaff, the link you gave me was just another loop to the ring of trying to explain away the ability of self creation bound by observed laws that do not point to such a thing. With belief in a Creator that truly isn't bound by such things for God created the concept of creation I can account for the start of all things with my admission of such entity.

Prove to me things can come into existence without cause and I will work on my Noble prize!
 
Scaff, the link you gave me was just another loop to the ring of trying to explain away the ability of self creation bound by observed laws that do not point to such a thing. With belief in a Creator that truly isn't bound by such things for God created the concept of creation I can account for the start of all things with my admission of such entity.

Prove to me things can come into existence without cause and I will work on my Noble prize!

If Scaff proved it, it would be his Nobel prize ;)

As for putting 'God' in place of a theory of creation. Isn't that what the ancients did to explain eclipses, devastating weather, etc.? It's easy to call on 'God' to explain that which we do not know. Looks a bit silly when some bright spark decides to question that, does some science and comes up with the correct answer.
 
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