Do you believe in God?

[homeforsummer]

Prove to me things can come into existence without cause and I will work on my Noble prize!

You're welcome to respond to my post above on just such a topic any time you like.

 

[ScouserInExile]

If Scaff proved it, it would be his Nobel prize

As for putting 'God' in place of a theory of creation. Isn't that what the ancients did to explain eclipses, devastating weather, etc.? It's easy to call on 'God' to explain that which we do not know. Looks a bit silly when some bright spark decides to question that, does some science and comes up with the correct answer.

And herein lies my big problem with the blind belief in a god, any god. Blindly believing that a god created everything and everything happens because of a god does nothing to advance humanity. Where those with utmost faith in a higher power are happy to say "because god did it", fortunately others will say "hang on, why does that happen?". Without that lack of faith, we'd all still be living in caves (well, not quite. But it works for the sake of this argument).

 

[CodeRedR51]

 

[Kingland093]

And herein lies my big problem with the blind belief in a god, any god. Blindly believing that a god created everything and everything happens because of a god does nothing to advance humanity.

well at least we know how we came to be

 

[CodeRedR51]

well at least we know how we came to be

Explain.

 

[Gonales]

I have just one thing to say:

 

[CodeRedR51]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/o...gs-of-atheism.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&emc=eta1

 

[sumbrownkid]

There are many reasons why not to believe in God. Some use science as excuse, others personal grievances (loss of faith and what not).

Science and religion do not have to always be opposed to each other. To me they can work together, but most of the time the two fields work best when separated.

To me God created the universe, and science explains how he or she went about it. Sort of like what Einstein said about Physics being the language in which God wrote his universe with or something.

Let the religious debate morality, and let the scientist discover and postulate. I doubt the Qu'ran concerns itself with quantum mechanics as much as me being a good person.

It really gets annoying when Atheists and Theists go at it with arrogance and smugness.

 

[MatskiMonk]

It really gets annoying when Atheists and Theists go at it with arrogance and smugness.

Yeah, this, and it does appear to be from both camps.

Personally, I've opened my mind a lot more to religion... Am I a believer? I don't know yet, I'm currently trying to rationalise what I know, and what the possibilities are into a model that works for me - it seems that however far science gets us, there will always be unanswered questions. If you just assume for one minute that one day science will have all the answers, what does that mean for human free-will? Karma? Chance? Good and Evil? If science has all the answers then as far as I'm concerned these things can't exist - everything is simply the output of a formula, once we know all the formulae, and once we can observe all the variables, we will know all the answers... what then? Level 40 X2011 in Gold Chrome ticket for mankind?

.. of course, the human race is likely to have been extinguished, or extinguished itself long before we get to such a stage.

 

[ScouserInExile]

well at least we know how we came to be

I know how I came to be. My mummy and my daddy had a special cuddle and nine months later a stork left me under a gooseberry bush.

Nice to know that you accept that religion is of no use to humanity, though.

 

[sumbrownkid]

We'll probably never prove the existence of a deity, and that's fine by me really.

Science can only test what is attainable, and it is pretty hard to get God to show up for hypothesis testing

 

[PzR Slim]

There are many reasons why not to believe in God. Some use science as excuse, others personal grievances (loss of faith and what not).

Science and religion do not have to always be opposed to each other. To me they can work together, but most of the time the two fields work best when separated.

To me God created the universe, and science explains how he or she went about it. Sort of like what Einstein said about Physics being the language in which God wrote his universe with or something.

Let the religious debate morality, and let the scientist discover and postulate. I doubt the Qu'ran concerns itself with quantum mechanics as much as me being a good person.

It really gets annoying when Atheists and Theists go at it with arrogance and smugness.

Why should morality be reserved for the religious?

 

[Joel]

Whoops, double post.

 

[Joel]

Why should morality be reserved for the religious?

I don't think that was really his implication. Just more that science isn't really an "opinion". You don't agree or disagree that water is 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen, while theologists (theologians?) debate whether or not certain activities are acceptable for those of a certain religion. Of course, there are some religious people who actually believe that you can't be moral without a belief in a God, but I'm going to give sumbrownkid the benefit of the doubt here based on the history of his posts here at GTPlanet.

well at least we know how we came to be

Oh really? Do tell.

I have just one thing to say:
*Facebook comments*

👍

 

[Dennisch]

We'll probably never prove the existence of a deity, and that's fine by me really.

Science can only test what is attainable, and it is pretty hard to get God to show up for hypothesis testing

Didn't god show himself to people of the past?
Maybe we need recreate Eden, or try to sacrifice a child to lure him back from heaven.

 

[Kingland093]

I know how I came to be. My mummy and my daddy had a special cuddle and nine months later a stork left me under a gooseberry bush.

Nice to know that you accept that religion is of no use to humanity, though.

I meant how the human race came into existence and I'm a religious person so I do believe that it is useful (not all religions though)

@Noob616 read the book of Genesis, that'll tell you how everything came into existence

@Dennisch Catholics believe that God shows himself during the Mass so he still does

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, the link you gave me was just another loop to the ring of trying to explain away the ability of self creation bound by observed laws that do not point to such a thing.

No it contained details of well documented and scientifically discussed hypothesis on the subject, rather than 'god did it because it says so in a book we can't prove the providence of'.

With belief in a Creator that truly isn't bound by such things for God created the concept of creation I can account for the start of all things with my admission of such entity.

No you simply accept that god always has been, which means you are hit by the exact same issue of what caused god to exists/ where did god come from/what was before him.

Prove to me things can come into existence without cause and I will work on my Noble prize!

Why would you get a noble prize if I was able to prove something that would most certainly see me collect it?

I meant how the human race came into existence and I'm a religious person so I do believe that it is useful (not all religions though)

Head over to the Creation vs Evolution thread, plenty of details in that on exactly how the human race came to evolve into its current form. I think however you are refering to teh existance of life (we as a species came along a lot later than that).

@Noob616 read the book of Genesis, that'll tell you how everything came into existence

Really - could you provide the evidence that backs that up at all?

@Dennisch Catholics believe that God shows himself during the Mass so he still does

Odd because I've been to a lot of Catholic masses and never seen him once, you'd think he would of tapped me on the shoulder and sorted out the whole being an atheist bit.

 

[Gonales]

Didn't god show himself to people of the past?
Maybe we need recreate Eden, or try to sacrifice a child to lure him back from heaven.

I really, really hope that's sarcasm

My reasons not to believe in God:

1) What proof is there? A bible, and what people tell me.
2) The bible, changed completely over the years. Things that were written down in the first and second amendment changed, and now I would put money on the fact that 90% of what is in the bible, has nothing to do with what was in there in the first place.

3) People lie. I think all of us agree on that, so why wouldn't people called priests, (for example), tell lies? Even if it was the truth in their opinion?

 

[Dennisch]

@Dennisch Catholics believe that God shows himself during the Mass so he still does

Please provide the evidence.

And Gonales, yes, that was sarcasm.

 

[Kingland093]

Head over to the Creation vs Evolution thread, plenty of details in that on exactly how the human race came to evolve into its current form. I think however you are refering to teh existance of life (we as a species came along a lot later than that).




Really - could you provide the evidence that backs that up at all?



Odd because I've been to a lot of Catholic masses and never seen him once, you'd think he would of tapped me on the shoulder and sorted out the whole being an atheist bit.

actually humans didn't evolve (but this arguement is for a different thread)

yes, the world

if you looked at the Eucharist during and after the concecration then you did see him
evidence- it happened during the Last Supper which was the first Mass so it still happens during masses today

 

[CodeRedR51]

@Noob616 read the book of Genesis, that'll tell you how everything came into existence

Again, because a book says so? Right.

 

[ScouserInExile]

I meant how the human race came into existence

Yeah, I kinda got that, but I feel my story is about as believable as the Christian / Jewish / Muslim story of creation you seem to believe where an omnipotent and omnipresent being thought us into being.

and I'm a religious person so I do believe that it is useful (not all religions though)

And what use does religion actually have and, more to the point why does your religion have uses that others don't?

@Noob616 read the book of Genesis, that'll tell you how everything came into existence

Again, that's just your fairly baseless opinion formed from the single Abrahamic text you've either read or been told about. There is a good bit of evidence, not least common sense, that points to the contrary.

 

[Scaff]

actually humans didn't evolve (but this arguement is for a different thread)

Then please back taht claim up in the correct thread.

if you looked at the Eucharist during and after the concecration then you did see him

Nope.

evidence- it happened during the Last Supper which was the first Mass so it still happens during masses today

Uhh you are aware that's not even remotely close to evidence.

 

[huskeR32]

...As a Christian I understand that being born into total depravity I myself can't do any good in God's eyes nothing. My good deeds are nothing but filthy rags to him. Any good that comes from myself or any other person for that matter is not of himself but God. Thus to God goes all the glory!...

This is one of the most depressing things I've ever read. I honestly can't fathom why you would continue to believe in something that makes you feel that way.

Not to mention, it leaves me baffled about your morality argument. How can something that devalues humans that much be the source of our innate sense that life is precious?

... Remember it is the theory of evolution with many problems and doesn't hold water very well.

I'm going to leave this alone, as the discussion is for another thread, but I will say that you need to look up what the word "theory" actually means before trying to have that discussion with anybody.

I myself don't have to worry about such things as Darwin because I have a God that forms the basis for argumentation. I can stand here and say that wrong and right do exist, that we can rely upon our conscious mind to relay proper information to us. If you take God out of the equation you are saying from the irrational we get the rational. Where do you see that in this world?

Essentially what you're saying is: "Even though the theory of evolution is a convincing idea, and poses serious questions to the validity of my faith, I'm going to ignore it (i.e. not 'worry about such things') and console myself by repeating 'God did it' over and over again."

You're OK with this?

Sorry if nobody else took this the same way I did, but:

Buuuuuurrrrrnnnnn.

I took it the same way

 

[Dennisch]

actually humans didn't evolve (but this arguement is for a different thread)

yes, the world

if you looked at the Eucharist during and after the concecration then you did see him
evidence- it happened during the Last Supper which was the first Mass so it still happens during masses today

Sooo, if and when I go to mass, and I bring my camera, I will be able to record evidence of god? And non of the billion+ christians has ever thought of that idea, to shush us non-believers?

 

[Scaff]

Second, in what ways does the theory not "hold water?" It's a theory that's been supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence. Please actually respond to this.

Please see the Creation vs Evolution thread for that discussion, we need to keep these threads on topic.

 

[Tesla]

 

[huskeR32]

Please see the Creation vs Evolution thread for that discussion, we need to keep these threads on topic.

Fair enough, edited my post accordingly.

 

[Kingland093]

Sooo, if and when I go to mass, and I bring my camera, I will be able to record evidence of god? And non of the billion+ christians has ever thought of that idea, to shush us non-believers?

1) yes!
2) masses are sometimes televised but not strictly for evangelization (I think, I might be wrong)

 

[Kingland093]

Uhh you are aware that's not even remotely close to evidence.

well it does depend on whether or not you believe the Bible is fact or not