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- ProtoApocalpse
2012 European Grand Prix
- Thread starter Matty
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MagpieRacer
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- MagpieRacer
There is no real argument, Maldonado has been penalised so he must have been in the wrong.
- 823
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- SuperDiscoDaz
- Pooliedaz
Demon Drone
Yeah some of the drivers used to seem to have a lack of emotion. Alonso is definitely losing that lack of emotion and my god even Kimi cracked a bit of a smile today. What is the world coming to
I see you've returned to grace us with your superior knowledge of F1.
- 7,113
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- FLAT_TWELVE
Maldonado's fault. But what happened is not particularly relevant, we all have seen many accidents and mishaps from many drivers without this kind of uproar in the boards.
And LOL @ people saying that Maldonado should be given a harsher penalty than Vergne. He didn't T-Bone Hamilton he just went in for a bit of space that Hamilton (within his own right but very, VERY dumbly) just didn't give him.
Maldonado got a drive through just as Senna got a drive through. And I think that is consistent decision making.
Now, to call for Maldonado's exclusion from the sport because of this ... is blowing it all out of proportion.
And LOL @ people saying that Maldonado should be given a harsher penalty than Vergne. He didn't T-Bone Hamilton he just went in for a bit of space that Hamilton (within his own right but very, VERY dumbly) just didn't give him.
Maldonado got a drive through just as Senna got a drive through. And I think that is consistent decision making.
Now, to call for Maldonado's exclusion from the sport because of this ... is blowing it all out of proportion.
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- SuperDiscoDaz
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FranciscoJR
Can I try the drugs you are on because some of the comments you have made are crazy because most of the people on here want to how Hamilton got away with it again in your opinion.
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FranciscoJR
It wasn't racing, it was idiocy.
Senna and Kobayashi was a racing incident, and it's absolutely galling that Senna got a penalty. One driver is unsighted, another gets squeezed, they collide. Largely unavoidable and 50/50, yet Senna gets a penalty - a largely irrelevant one too, given that the incident put Senna to the back anyway.
If you want to bemoan penalties bemoan that one, not entirely justified ones directed at idiotic homicidal drivers like Maldonado.
dhandeh
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- dhandes
Hamilton really got away with it. Do you have any other pearls of wisdom to share with us? If so please tell.
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- SuperDiscoDaz
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dhandes
I think he might be an Xbox troll
- 7,113
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- FLAT_TWELVE
Ok, I can agree with you on your first sentence, wouldn't mind two equal penalties for Maldonado and Kobayashi.
About Senna, I do like the guy and all, but he closed that gap in panic (if you watch the video, he does seem to look at his right mirror before turning right to "close the door") and indeed caused a very avoidable accident, so I think he deserved a penalty. Could be wrong though, I don't own the truth
@ Famine: I hear you about past deeds, just not this one. Hamilton could've easily done this himself in his pre 2012 self. Or Webber.
(btw, think I told you before, it's Badgiven. Donado translates to given, not gift.
)
- 2,791
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Ok, I can agree with you on your first sentence, wouldn't mind two equal penalties for Maldonado and Kobayashi.
About Senna, I do like the guy and all, but he closed that gap in panic (if you watch the video, he does seem to look at his right mirror before turning right to "close the door") and indeed caused a very avoidable accident, so I think he deserved a penalty. Could be wrong though, I don't own the truth
@ Famine: I hear you about past deeds, just not this one. Hamilton could've easily done this himself in his pre 2012 self. Or Webber.
(btw, think I told you before, it's Badgiven. Donado translates to given, not gift.
Many drivers actually brake when they see a gap disapearing
but I don't know for sure. Never saw on board from Kobay.And technically it would be more like "badly given" as previously stated. Don't you think? 👍
- 3,024
- Top Valley, NG5
Maldonado has a history of bad driving. see below cut and pasted.
However, his participation in the WSR was marred by a four-race ban for dangerous driving. He failed to slow down at the scene of an accident at Monaco, despite the presence of warning flags, and struck and seriously injured a marshal.
More incidents below.
GP2 Series
Maldonado's performances in FR3.5 were enough to attract the interest of GP2 teams, and he signed a contract to drive for Trident Racing in 2007 after a successful test in late 2006.[17] He took his first victory in only his fourth race in the series with a commanding win at Monaco. However, he had to miss the final four rounds of the season after breaking a collarbone during training, leaving him outside the championship top 10.[18]
He moved to the Piquet Sports team for 2008, his second year in the series. At midseason he had two poles and two podiums. He had a farcical sprint race in the wet at Silverstone – he stalled on the dummy grid, picked up a penalty for speeding in the pitlane as he joined the race, another penalty for passing under yellow flags, and crashed into Adrián Vallés and Kamui Kobayashi on the final lap. He started at the back of the grid for the Hungary feature race, but he moved up to finish fifth after staying out for longer than any other driver, and setting a succession of quick laps on these worn tyres. Four podium finishes—including a win at Spa—in the final six races saw him rise to fifth place in the drivers' championship by the end of the season.
However, his participation in the WSR was marred by a four-race ban for dangerous driving. He failed to slow down at the scene of an accident at Monaco, despite the presence of warning flags, and struck and seriously injured a marshal.
More incidents below.
GP2 Series
Maldonado's performances in FR3.5 were enough to attract the interest of GP2 teams, and he signed a contract to drive for Trident Racing in 2007 after a successful test in late 2006.[17] He took his first victory in only his fourth race in the series with a commanding win at Monaco. However, he had to miss the final four rounds of the season after breaking a collarbone during training, leaving him outside the championship top 10.[18]
He moved to the Piquet Sports team for 2008, his second year in the series. At midseason he had two poles and two podiums. He had a farcical sprint race in the wet at Silverstone – he stalled on the dummy grid, picked up a penalty for speeding in the pitlane as he joined the race, another penalty for passing under yellow flags, and crashed into Adrián Vallés and Kamui Kobayashi on the final lap. He started at the back of the grid for the Hungary feature race, but he moved up to finish fifth after staying out for longer than any other driver, and setting a succession of quick laps on these worn tyres. Four podium finishes—including a win at Spa—in the final six races saw him rise to fifth place in the drivers' championship by the end of the season.
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@ Famine: I hear you about past deeds, just not this one. Hamilton could've easily done this himself in his pre 2012 self. Or Webber.
(btw, think I told you before, it's Badgiven. Donado translates to given, not gift.
With Badgift they just aren't past deeds. Ramming Hamilton off the road in Belgium was petulant, dangerous and not even 12 months ago. Ramming Perez in Monaco was petulant, dangerous and not even a month ago. Here he's driven off the track - yes, he was squeezed there, but watch every other corner overtake in the history of F1 - and rather than safely re-entering to continue the fight he would inevitably win, he's scythed back on with no regard for safety and T-boned another car, pinging it into the air. Then driven round without a front wing, blocking another driver.
I mean do we remember Suranovic/Daly from four weeks ago? Do we remember Dan Wheldon at all? I can't even remember the last time a driver's deliberately driven into another one and Maldonado has done it twice in a year! He is going to kill someone unless this idiotic streak can be removed from him - and a farcical 20s postrace penalty won't do that.
And yes, but Badgift is funnier
It encapsulates what he is to the rest of the grid.
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About Senna, I do like the guy and all, but he closed that gap in panic (if you watch the video, he does seem to look at his right mirror before turning right to "close the door") and indeed caused a very avoidable accident, so I think he deserved a penalty. Could be wrong though, I don't own the truth
I'd have said it was marginal, but I'd err on the side of not giving him a penalty. Even if because he'd sort of already learned his lesson after getting turned around at that sort of speed and puncturing a tyre...
- 161
- Portugal
- bipito
Failling to present a fuel sample in the Spanish GP, Hamilton was punished with starting from the back.
Maldonado T-bones him, and receives a 20sec penalty? WTF is this now? Crash and Derby races???? Four wheels outside the track, failing to rejoin the track and causing a crash like that and just that penalty? LOL
Senna's penalty was fair in my view.
The J.Vergne penalty is ANOTHER FAIL from the stewards!! What he did, many other drivers have done that and worse even without being punished after!
F1 is a great show of skills, fast and impressive cars. BUT is also a show of political behavior and bad judgment by the direction.
The championship and sport is rulled by morons who just have money interests.
PS: i dont have time to read the last pages, but i saw people calling maldonado Badgift.. XD
Just for curiosity, PASTOR in portuguese means "Shepherd" wich i think he should be doing. Taking care of sheeps. xP
Maldonado T-bones him, and receives a 20sec penalty? WTF is this now? Crash and Derby races???? Four wheels outside the track, failing to rejoin the track and causing a crash like that and just that penalty? LOL
Senna's penalty was fair in my view.
The J.Vergne penalty is ANOTHER FAIL from the stewards!! What he did, many other drivers have done that and worse even without being punished after!
F1 is a great show of skills, fast and impressive cars. BUT is also a show of political behavior and bad judgment by the direction.
The championship and sport is rulled by morons who just have money interests.
PS: i dont have time to read the last pages, but i saw people calling maldonado Badgift.. XD
Just for curiosity, PASTOR in portuguese means "Shepherd" wich i think he should be doing. Taking care of sheeps. xP
Doth1s
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- D34D MERC
I would agree. I saw no malice or intent in the contact and Senna had taken himself out of running as it was.
- 804
- GTP_ZippyCat
Watched the DVR of the race. That. Was. Epic. Unexpectedly so.
Quick takes:
Grosjean is the real deal. He was on his way to a win when the alternator let go. I rather like his manner -- genuinely happy to be there, and just gets on with the job.
The Schumi-and-Webber dice was enjoyable throughout, and I'm glad Schumi was rewarded with the podium. Two pros doing work.
Far as Hamilton vs. Maldonado, I'm with Shaggy Alonso and Seismica in my take on the situation. Hamilton lost sight of the big picture and not for the first time. Compare his reaction to the tires going off to Alonso's in Canada or Kimi's earlier in the season. People wonder whether he'll want to stay at McLaren and I keep wondering why McLaren would want to keep him. Put Di Resta or Webber in that car and I suspect you'd net more points, more consistently, through the season.
Kobayashi, same thing, there's a reason why no one tips him for a top drive.
Alonso is quite clearly the class of the field driver-wise and the driver's championship is down to whether Ferrari can continue feeding in upgrades sufficient to keep it competitive with the RBs. Button is out of it and Hamilton can be counted on to throw points away. Alonso from recent history will have one bad, non-points race and that's it.
Quick takes:
Grosjean is the real deal. He was on his way to a win when the alternator let go. I rather like his manner -- genuinely happy to be there, and just gets on with the job.
The Schumi-and-Webber dice was enjoyable throughout, and I'm glad Schumi was rewarded with the podium. Two pros doing work.
Far as Hamilton vs. Maldonado, I'm with Shaggy Alonso and Seismica in my take on the situation. Hamilton lost sight of the big picture and not for the first time. Compare his reaction to the tires going off to Alonso's in Canada or Kimi's earlier in the season. People wonder whether he'll want to stay at McLaren and I keep wondering why McLaren would want to keep him. Put Di Resta or Webber in that car and I suspect you'd net more points, more consistently, through the season.
Kobayashi, same thing, there's a reason why no one tips him for a top drive.
Alonso is quite clearly the class of the field driver-wise and the driver's championship is down to whether Ferrari can continue feeding in upgrades sufficient to keep it competitive with the RBs. Button is out of it and Hamilton can be counted on to throw points away. Alonso from recent history will have one bad, non-points race and that's it.
- 9,303
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- GTP_DaxCobra
Are you kidding me? Hamilton has finished in the points all season, and hasn't finished where he should because of team errors. Even today they didn't get it right, and all he was doing was defending inside the rules when Ginsters / Badgift / The Dangerous One slammed into his side.
This Valencian GP had a new judge Mika Salo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mika_Salo), who is a former F1 pilot from 90's. Today drivers want judges to have more perspective from their side and this is one reason Jean Todd put Salo there. Judgement directions most likely bend therefore towards avoiding to interfere upcoming GPs.
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- 2,791
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- Burnout_PT
Well... Mixed feelings about racing drivers judging. They are more likely to decide based on how they would've done, or the driver history, personal preferences...
I mean McNish was the marshal last year in Monaco, slapped Hamilton with 2 penalties for over agressiveness 2 weeks after crashing in Le Mans in an very aggressive overtake attempt. Doesn't this undemine their authority as well?
Still... Alonso. Unbelievable. I saw Luca di Montezemolo shaking his head after practice and thought "those guys are in trouble". Then this response from Alonso, just fairy tale stuff, and he's prince charming.
Very bad for Grosjean as the kid deserves all he can get. He doesn't push anyone, he's trying to do it right (unlike others...). He had a shot here, and more, that would be 8/8
Those saying Hamilton acted differenly on both overtakes, have you considered maybe it's cause Grosejan has earned some respect, while Maldonado just acts like a bully?
Vettel. Well, if we weren't all so bored with this "run away and win" from the past, maybe there would be more people rooting for him. This way, most people are happy when he doesn't. Except Germans I guess, but that is perfectly understandable.
I mean McNish was the marshal last year in Monaco, slapped Hamilton with 2 penalties for over agressiveness 2 weeks after crashing in Le Mans in an very aggressive overtake attempt. Doesn't this undemine their authority as well?
Still... Alonso. Unbelievable. I saw Luca di Montezemolo shaking his head after practice and thought "those guys are in trouble". Then this response from Alonso, just fairy tale stuff, and he's prince charming.
Very bad for Grosjean as the kid deserves all he can get. He doesn't push anyone, he's trying to do it right (unlike others...). He had a shot here, and more, that would be 8/8
Those saying Hamilton acted differenly on both overtakes, have you considered maybe it's cause Grosejan has earned some respect, while Maldonado just acts like a bully?
Vettel. Well, if we weren't all so bored with this "run away and win" from the past, maybe there would be more people rooting for him. This way, most people are happy when he doesn't. Except Germans I guess, but that is perfectly understandable.
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officialdriver
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I disagree. Race ends at the finish line. Having to stop to have enough fuel looks ok for me...
I mean, even if fuel runs out before the finish line, and they still get to cross the line, I'd say it would be rather unfair to strip them from the win.
On qualy, if you allow it, you're gonna have to buy extra tow-trucks because 24 cars will park at the end.
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Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
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- Ardius_
In qualifying you know how many laps you will run at full pace (all of them except in and out lap).
In the race all teams run expecting to save fuel on some laps and push hard on others as well as expecting safety cars.
So basically its easier to mis-judge the fuel in the race than it is in qualifying.
