2012 European Grand Prix

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Yes, I get all that, all very valid points. But don't you think teams will and do exploit that? You're right, it is harder to judge fuel usage over a distance like that, but they'd be able to manage it fairly easily over the last few laps.

I don't really care that much about it, just offering a different opinion (and bringing the topic to the thread) and opening a debate on consistency in the rules.

Going off on another tangent, Button really needs to get his act together. I don't think the continuing McLaren strategy fails are helping him, but he's clearly got other issues at the moment and is struggling to drive through issues as many others seem to do.
 
Sureboss
Well, obviously, but why? Where's the logic in having to return to pits with x amount of fuel after qualy, but not race? You get points for the one that fuel isn't tested on, that makes sense...
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In DTM you have to return to the pits with x amount of fuel after the race but in F1 you dont... its the rules, and as long as everybody knows how it works...
 
DaxCobra
Are you kidding me? Hamilton has finished in the points all season, and hasn't finished where he should because of team errors. Even today they didn't get it right, and all he was doing was defending inside the rules when Ginsters / Badgift / The Dangerous One slammed into his side.
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Obviously Zippy was making a joke post. Hamilton is still unquestionably one of the most talented drivers on the grid. Prior to today, he was leading a championship that his own team has worked hard at taking from him, with a long list of ruined stops, including one today, though with almost no ruined stops for Button in 2012, and the qualifying blunder a while back wherewith they caused him to go from pole to the last row on the grid. There are almost no drivers on the grid as deserving of the seat as Hamilton, and replacing him with another driver would be a step down in almost any case, with but perhaps just a select few possible exceptions. Hamilton is single-handedly carrying McLaren in the constructors championship this year, with Button basically off on vacation somewhere.

Whatever criticisms could be made of Hamilton in 2011 are gone for 2012. His head is clearly back in the game this year, and few drivers on the grid rival his driving talent. Button sure doesn't, and never has, and the only reason Button outperformed Hamilton in 2011 isn't by being better but a result of whatever personal demons Hamilton was wrestling with.

If anybody needs replaced at McLaren, it's the rest of the team.
 
IceMan PJN
Obviously Zippy was making a joke post. Hamilton is still unquestionably one of the most talented drivers on the grid. Prior to today, he was leading a championship that his own team has worked hard at taking from him, with a long list of ruined stops, including one today, though with almost no ruined stops for Button in 2012, and the qualifying blunder a while back wherewith they caused him to go from pole to the last row on the grid. There are almost no drivers on the grid as deserving of the seat as Hamilton, and replacing him with another driver would be a step down in almost any case, with but perhaps just a select few possible exceptions. Hamilton is single-handedly carrying McLaren in the constructors championship this year, with Button basically off on vacation somewhere.

Whatever criticisms could be made of Hamilton in 2011 are gone for 2012. His head is clearly back in the game this year, and few drivers on the grid rival his driving talent. Button sure doesn't, and never has, and the only reason Button outperformed Hamilton in 2011 isn't by being better but a result of whatever personal demons Hamilton was wrestling with.

If anybody needs replaced at McLaren, it's the rest of the team.
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Nailed it.
 
A thought....


If Hamilton hadn't had such a poor pit stop (Again), he would have had the lead, or at least 2nd, meaning he would have had a bigger gap, and could have been easier on his tyres.

The corner was Hamiltons, Maldonado should have disengaged and waited another lap. Instead, he continued his very... interesting line in the corner and tried to come out ahead.
 
hawkeye122
A thought....


If Hamilton hadn't had such a poor pit stop (Again), he would have had the lead, or at least 2nd, meaning he would have had a bigger gap, and could have been easier on his tyres.

The corner was Hamiltons, Maldonado should have disengaged and waited another lap. Instead, he continued his very... interesting line in the corner and tried to come out ahead.
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Maldonado tried to pull the same overtaking technique other drivers had used. The only difference is that Hamilton didn't concede and Maldonado made a boneheaded move back on to the track.

He should have backed off and let Hamilton keep his spot as he would have eventually out maneuvered him.
 
I didn't like Maldonado before and this race didn't help much either. Then he blamed Hamilton for pushing him off the track when he clearly drove into Hamilton on rejoining. He just throws his idiot cap on too often.
 
At 1ness
Yes, he did have a hope.

How come Hamilton (in a car 5 seconds slower per lap) managed to hold off Maldonado until the point that Maldonado took him out ?, yes, he had less traction, but so what?... it was 1 more lap to the end, chance worth taking in my opinion....mate.
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Obviously not worth taking, look how it turned out.

Hamilton has said himself his tyres felt like they were flat, and that he didn't even know where he would have finished up had the incident not happened. How can you still say in light of all this that it was 'a risk worth taking'?

Had Maldonado yielded and bided his time, he would have had a further 6 heavy braking zones to the end of the race to get Hamilton, never mind traction zones and DRS.

You are completely underestimating just what a hopeless state Hamilton was in at that point of the race. He might as well have been on wet tyres, and no one would have been advising him to race against someone in that scenario.
 
IceMan PJN
Obviously Zippy was making a joke post. Hamilton is still unquestionably one of the most talented drivers on the grid.
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Actually, I wasn't. In Hamilton I see a guy who makes a lot of bone-headed errors, counting the DNFs at Monza and Singapore in 2010 along with all the contretemps in 2011. Compare his performance in that regard to, say, Vettel, who aside from his bash with the No.2 HRT in China this year has a clean sheet since Spa 2010. Sure, he's had some DNFs, including today's, but none of those were self-inflicted. The contrast couldn't be clearer. One of those two guys has eliminated or at least minimized his own mistakes, and the other hasn't.
 
Now that the thread has calmed down I'm going ask my question one more time.

Why is fox broadcasting the race 4 hours after it starts? It happened this race and I accidentally found out the winner before the race started. They are again broadcasting the British GP at 12 instead of 8. If this is to accommodate another show on Fox then they don't deserve to broadcast any at all. Fox just doesn't care about their Formula One watching population 👎👎👎
 
Jsoccer9
Now that the thread has calmed down I'm going ask my question one more time.

Why is fox broadcasting the race 4 hours after it starts? It happened this race and I accidentally found out the winner before the race started. They are again broadcasting the British GP at 12 instead of 8. If this is to accommodate another show on Fox then they don't deserve to broadcast any at all. Fox just doesn't care about their Formula One watching population 👎👎👎
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Because SPEED is owned by FOX, the contract states that 4 (I think) races have to be shown on the local FOX affiliates, to bring in more viewers or something like that. In order to do so, they delay the races so that they're shown at a more "acceptable" time, because they figure the average Joe doesn't have enough give-a-damn to get up at 8 in the morning to watch a race.
 
In my opinion, it was both of their own fault. Hamilton should've given Maldonado more room to race while Maldonado shouldn't have been still going side-by-side when clearly he was running out of the track.

A fun race, probably the best European GP in Valencia for years!
 
Funny thing. As I was watching I was thinking surely they're going to crash...one or two corners later....
 
TheBook
Because SPEED is owned by FOX, the contract states that 4 (I think) races have to be shown on the local FOX affiliates, to bring in more viewers or something like that. In order to do so, they delay the races so that they're shown at a more "acceptable" time, because they figure the average Joe doesn't have enough give-a-damn to get up at 8 in the morning to watch a race.
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Then is there another place where I can watch the race at real time? I'm in the US so I can not tune into the BBC or Sky coverage via television.
 
Maldonado should have slipped back in behind instead of still trying to take the position by driving off the track and forcing his way through, a more experienced driver would have slipped back in behind only to take him on the next opportunity. Based on the state of Hamiltons tyres that would have been 1 corner.

Maldonado is fast and obviously has talent but has a serious problem with being overly aggressive and lacking patience, he got off lightly with a 20 second penalty, though knowing that he ruined his own chance of a podium result was probably punishment enough in his eyes.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
Funny thing. As I was watching I was thinking surely they're going to crash...one or two corners later....
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During the race as soon as I saw McDonaldo catch up to Hamilton I knew two things: McDonaldo will try an aggressive maneuver on the outside/inside - and crash, or he will wait for the DRS zone to pass him - then crash. Turns out it was choice one, except instead of "aggressive" it should be "bone-headed."
 
Things are always going to be shaky - if not outright questionable - when Maldonado and Hamilton go for the same piece of road since they're probably the most agressive and incident-prone drivers on the grid.
 
Was out feeling poorly. Didn't watch the race. First time, all season.

Thus, I only come in here to say one thing:


Alonsoooooooo!

That is all.
 
prisonermonkeys
Things are always going to be shaky - if not outright questionable - when Maldonado and Hamilton go for the same piece of road since they're probably the most agressive and incident-prone drivers on the grid.
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So how's that possible Hamilton/Maldonado combo at Williams coming? ;)


I would still call it fair to say that Hamilton had the outside line. Maldonado tried to take the outside line from a car which was LEADING into the first corner. He subsequently went Off-track, and tried to rejoin ahead of Hamilton.

If Schumacher had done it (He would have), we would probably be saying much the same thing- It's his fault because he did it for 14 years. Just because Hamilton has made more mistakes (Because he's been in the sport longer) doesnt make Maldonado any better of a driver.
 
After seeing that replay again between Maldonado & Hamilton, it seems like Maldonado was deliberately crashing into Hamilton. There was room to stay on the inside and rejoin the track behind Hamilton and try again in the next turn.

All these Maldonado incidents added up, he should have gotten a one race ban at least in my opinion.
 
Great race, but tough race for Seb. Surely would've won this without a doubt if he hadn't retired.

Driver of the day: Sebastian Vettel.
 
Was shocked by Maldonado's crash into Hamilton, but more shocked by Hamilton's mature response. To those comparing this move to the others at the same corner, if you overtake and keep your car within the confines of the circuit then it is for the car off the racing line to stay there. If you have left the circuit though, you can't just rejoin. You have outbraked yourself to make the place and must rejoin the circuit safely. Just gutted that these kind of incidents always seem to involve Hamilton in a season which was McLaren's for the taking. Now though I'm not so sure...

Was a very good race though overall, kind of good to see some reliability issues (though EXTREMELY cruel for the outstanding Vettel and impressive Grosjean) since it mixes up the result somewhat. Very impessive drive from Alonso, Webber and Schumacher as well to capitalise on everything going on around them and proving that you can overtake at Valencia!

Condemned the DRS zone before the race but actually it was perfect this time round.
 
Was surprised to see the Red Bull of Vettel dropping out, anyone know what was the problem?
 

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