2012 European Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Matty, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. astrosdude91

    astrosdude91

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    Aww really? I thought I was doing a good job of hiding it. :p
     
  2. DaxCobra

    DaxCobra

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    Not even slightly.
     
  3. disinfected

    disinfected Premium

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    And for some reason my DVD didn't record it until the wee hours of Sunday night. Looks like my prediction was almost true. I'll be watching it tonight.
     
  4. Peter.

    Peter.

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    Who would have bet on Valencia being one of the most exciting races so far of 2012?

    On a different note, Horner is saying that Alonso's title challenge will take a tumble at one point in the year. I highly doubt it, because that Ferrari is showing superb reliability, as well as getting faster and faster each race. He will need some real misfortune for his title chase to fall apart right now.
     
  5. disinfected

    disinfected Premium

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    I still feel like someone is going to start running away with it here in the next couple of races.
     
  6. ROAD_DOGG33J

    ROAD_DOGG33J Premium

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    Alonso already had a tumble in the beginning of the year. Though it is possible that he could retire or have some bad luck in a race or two. Hamilton should be in the position Alonso is in, but McLaren keep screwing him over.
     
  7. Akmuq

    Akmuq

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    He would say that to keep his drivers motivated though, and you never know, Alonso could get some seriously bad luck and between as much as 7 different drivers with a chance of a win each week there will be some hot-tempers and frustration which can lead to poor driving and collisions.

    At the moment it looks like it will be between Alonso, Webber, Hamilton, Vettel and Rosberg. I'm doubting Kimi since you can never tell how Lotus will keep up development on the car. Also of note, Grosjean could be 2nd, maybe even first, if he was able to finish all the races this year, weather or not the Lotus is the best car on the grid, he is a seriously quick driver and I can see him winning a World Championship in the future, either at Lotus if they remain near the top or with another high-end team.
     
  8. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    It wouldn't surprise me. Would be highly unusual to keep getting different winners. Not impossible, but unusual.

    That said, I'm not sure if anyone will run away with it either, because there are a hell of a lot of drivers on an even keel at the mo. Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso definitely have more wins in them. Provided Hamilton and McLaren get their acts together, I suspect the title will be down to those three in the end. But it'll be close.
     
  9. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

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    No he didn't retire despite the team asking him continuously to stop the car, he ignored though.
     
  10. Bye Ya

    Bye Ya

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    This season has gone up for grabs so far. I wouldn't put it past the top 7 drivers or so not to make a challenge for the points should things continue to be so unpredictable.
     
  11. Peter.

    Peter.

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    No, he did retire, while running in 10th, I believe.
     
  12. Jiggins

    Jiggins

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    Meh, I believe it was both Hamilton and Maldanado's fault. Hamilton should of been aware that it was Maldanado behind him, and should of yielded on the 2nd apex, but Maldanado shouldn't of came back on the track when Hamiton was so close to him. But i do not believe Maldanado crashed into him on purpose, he turned the wheel and the car just didn't turn. Its a tough one to judge though. Here's a video if you want a look. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILhjnwW4jdE
     
  13. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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  14. hornet_burnout

    hornet_burnout

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    I don't understand how Pastor actually pushing Grosjean off the track was ok in Australia, and now that he is on the outside it's Hamilton's fault cause he didn't make room?

    And other people made the pass in the same place because they managed to get further ahead and the inside driver couldn't go wide (see previous long post whith pictures...). Pastor was in no position to keep trying to make ot stick. HE should've yielded. But Pastor is still a crasher.

    And he's a bully (remember Australia and Monaco penalties?). If people are gonna make way cause it's him coming, then his bully tactics win. I say the opposite, while he keeps pulling stupid stunts, he shouldn't be given anything.

    Except more penalties.
     
  15. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    So Hamilton is at fault because he should have known the driver behind him is a loose cannon? Well that could be dangerous to F1 if drivers have to start giving way to others or be taken out. Surely they should look at said drivers who don't seem to understand when they have to concede a pass didn't work and dish out penalties to them instead. Ah....

    It's whether the driver on the outside kept it on the track or not. A lot of them outbraked themselves and ran out of track so knew to yield. Others did the same move but kept within the confines of the circuit so it was then the inside driver who had to concede the position.

    Haven't seen any mention of Vergne's crash with Kovalainen either. Any explanation for it? Glad he got such a heavy penalty for such a stupid move, but I am worried with the amount of drivers in F1 flaunting safety at racing speeds to crash into others. Maldonado (based on Spa 2011 and Monaco this year) and now Vergne should be dealt with a lot more seriously or we will see more of these incidents occurring.

    Maybe these drivers are gaining experience using F1 2011 online?...
     
  16. tezgm99

    tezgm99

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    I'm going to blame Rosberg for that. If it wasn't for his....staunch defending....at Bahrain this year, Lewis probably would have left just enough room on the outside the other day. But since we now know there are no rules about running someone off the track anymore, why should Lewis have given Pastor room? :sly:
     
  17. Prince.M5

    Prince.M5

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    Well, because Lewis shouldn't have given Pastor more room, that has caused his own race. When you're racing with Maldonado, you will have to always be very aware that something is going to happen fairly soon.
     
  18. Only_in_f1

    Only_in_f1

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    I feel Maldonado is a little unlucky that the high kurb effectively steers him straight into the side of Lewis.
     
  19. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    And if the kerb wasn't there? There wasn't a cars width inside of Hamilton to rejoin the circuit, whether rejoining cleanly or without control because of a kerb. If anything, the kerb should have made him MORE cautious as he must have known the consequences of going over a kerb on steering.

    Surely?...

    It's a shame what happened in Barcelona this year, good for Williams to get a win like that but it does mean that Maldonado is forever rid of the "only there because of the money input" tag, despite being a liability for 19/20 races.
     
  20. Seismica

    Seismica Premium

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    I dislike Maldonado as much as the next guy, but what he did in Valencia was a lapse of judgement. He should have known a driver like Hamilton wouldn't give enough space, just like Hamilton shouldn't expect Maldonado to yield. It was the inevitable consequence of the clash between two aggressive driving styles.

    It was a racing incident in my opinion, but because Maldonado went off-track he could be penalised for it, and noone can really argue with that as he momentarily had 4 wheels off the track. By the rules, Hamilton did nothing wrong (On a corner exit they are allowed to run wide if they have the inside line), but it was clear that he squeezed Maldonado off-track and then cut back across the apex of the left hander. Aggressive defending is always risky and unfortunately Lewis lost out because of it.

    An experienced driver would judge how another driver will react. Whether they're a veteran of grand prix racing or a fresh rookie from GP2, their actions are often quite predictable. For instance, you should always be more wary battling with rookies. Maldonado is not someone who is usually fair on track, Hamilton should at least compensate for this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  21. hawkeye122

    hawkeye122

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    What do you mean by "Compensate?" Because Maldonado is fairly new, everyone should give him space because he's a hot head? THEY, the experience on the grid, should just let Maldonado by?

    How do you compensate for keeping a legitimate line in a corner, only to have the "Rookie" run off track and pull a Touring-Car worthy move on you?
     
  22. Alex.

    Alex. Premium

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    The fact he won an F1 race in a williams shows that the 'only there for the money' tag should be complete bollocks anyway. He's a quick driver who's learning and making rookie mistakes, but he has major potential.
     
  23. DaxCobra

    DaxCobra

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    The whole "He's new" thing is rubbish. He has competed in GP2 and other racing sports and should have picked up proper racecraft, but no, he is just awful at it. Most of it is intentional too by the looks of it.
     
  24. OK8

    OK8

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    Is this true? If it is, it changes everything.

    I thought you're supposed to leave room on the "other line" which ever you decide to take. Other people overtook from the outside there and weren't pushed to the run off area, so I was amazed at how people were justifying Hamilton's actions. If you're allowed to push others like that (leave no room at all on the outside) then I guess there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think that's clean racing.

    All in all I side with Maldonado on this one. It's possible for two cars to go side by side there and if Hamilton hadn't pushed Pastor out, none of this had happened (though also if Maldonado had had the sense to just wait for a few corners and try the cutback somewhere, he would've had the place and there would've been no scandal).
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  25. Peter.

    Peter.

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    Listen to yourself. Do you really think Maldonado is ever saying "Hey, I'm going to endanger both the lives of myself and the other driver by crashing into him, even if it will completely ruin my race weekend, my credibility, and possibly destroy my career as a racing driver permanently."?
     
  26. Fryto

    Fryto

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    Article 20.3 of the 2012 FIA Sporting Regulations: "More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off‐line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner."

    According to this article Hamilton did not do anything wrong. He left space for one car while approaching the corner. As Maldonado didn't pass him before the corner it's Hamilton's right to take the corner on the regular racing line.
    If you don't agree, try looking at it the other way around. Suppose you're overtaking a car on the inside, you'll also continue on the racing line and kind of force the other car to give up its position. This is also exactly what Maldonado (at least I think it was him) did when overtaking Webber at the last corner before start/finish
     
  27. DaxCobra

    DaxCobra

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    Yeah, who in their right mind would think Maldonado would crash into anyone intentionally??? :rolleyes:
     
  28. Pezzarinho17

    Pezzarinho17

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    He seems to lapse judgement a lot though. If it was his first season then it would be deemed part of the learning curve, but he has been in F1 long enough now. Hamilton of old would not have yielded regardless, however he was passed earlier in the race by Grosjean at the same place. Grosjean kept within the track limits, Hamilton knew the corner was lost and so he yielded. I'm pretty certain he would have done the same thing had Maldonado stayed on the track as well. True though that Hamilton might have thought more wisely about being taken out, but the second you give a driver a free inch you may as well stay at home.

    Exactly my point proven. Before the win, I don't remember seeing potential. He has won a race now though so "suddenly" he has potential, which I agree for every other single race winning driver. For instance Rosberg showed potential LONG before China this year and it was inevitable he would be a GP winner in a matter of time. I don't see Maldonado progressing his career beyond his Venezuelan money though, and a quick look through the GP2 field shows there are more drivers where that money came from as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  29. Fryto

    Fryto

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    :D

     
  30. DaxCobra

    DaxCobra

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    Now where did I get that idea from then??