2021 F1 Driver ThreadFormula 1

[TenEightyOne]

Lawrence didn’t buy Force India on a whim or because he thought he could make money, he did it specifically to give Lance a secure seat in F1.

Source required - and that'll need a statement from Stroll Sr. rather than a journalist's say-so.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Source required - and that'll need a statement from Stroll Sr. rather than a journalist's say-so.

He won't find one. But we already knew that.

 

[Frank McGank]

Don't be so sure, and it definitley isn't something that needs to be gotten out of people's heads. Lawrence Stroll owns the team now, but, with Aston Martin on board it isn't just down to him. Yes its likely Stroll will stay, hence my post being a long shot. However, no seat in F1 is safe regardless of who owns what. If Hulkenberg has a great race and, maybe even a podium, the pressure is immediately on Stroll and Perez, and on Lawrence Stroll, to make the right choices for the team. Lance is at a point where he brings nothing to the team other than his driving ability and thats an area he needs to improve.

Add to that a recent interview where Stroll in response to a question regarding the seats he said "**** happens, business is business so we'll see what happens". Not sounding terribly confident. Lawrence is a businessman through and through and Lance knows that. You don't get where he is by making friends and being nice, plus whether Stroll is retained or not the team doesn't lose money as the investment stays regardless. So a performance based switch around is not off the table.

Lawrence owns a large share in Aston Martin as well. That’s why AM is switching to be RP’s title sponsor.

Source required - and that'll need a statement from Stroll Sr. rather than a journalist's say-so.

It’s fairly obvious. The entire reason Lawrence has invested in motorsports at all is to help Lance’s career. Always bought Lance the best equipment, basically bought out and funded every team in his junior career. What makes you think F1 would be any different? Where’s YOUR evidence that Lawrence thought he could turn a profit by buying FI?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Lawrence owns a large share in Aston Martin as well. That’s why AM is switching to be RP’s title sponsor.


It’s fairly obvious. The entire reason Lawrence has invested in motorsports at all is to help Lance’s career. Always bought Lance the best equipment, basically bought out and funded every team in his junior career. What makes you think F1 would be any different? Where’s YOUR evidence that Lawrence thought he could turn a profit by buying FI?

Yes he does, well aware of that having stated it multiple times myself 👍. What he isn't however, is the only person with a say. Its more than title sponsorship, the team is becoming Aston Martin Racing. Very different to being merely a sponsor and with it will come a different set of demands and requirements.

F1 isn't a fundamentally profitable sport. Lawrence Stroll is a business man and went Force India were going out of business he saw an opportunity to buy into F1, his goal has been about taking that team to the front, changed the name, changed the philosophy, bought Aston Martin on board. The way it came about it could be argued he may have done that regardless of Lance's involvement in F1. Is it convenient for Lance? Of course it is, but it sure as hell isn't the only reason he's done it.

And funding teams in junior Formula is very different. With spec cars, spec engines etc theres very little to be gained other than having small influence on getting the best engineers and team orders. Lance still had to get that car into positions to win races.

 

[Frank McGank]

Yes he does, well aware of that having stated it multiple times myself 👍. What he isn't however, is the only person with a say. Its more than title sponsorship, the team is becoming Aston Martin Racing. Very different to being merely a sponsor and with it will come a different set of demands and requirements.

F1 isn't a fundamentally profitable sport. Lawrence Stroll is a business man and went Force India were going out of business he saw an opportunity to buy into F1, his goal has been about taking that team to the front, changed the name, changed the philosophy, bought Aston Martin on board. The way it came about it could be argued he may have done that regardless of Lance's involvement in F1. Is it convenient for Lance? Of course it is, but it sure as hell isn't the only reason he's done it.

And funding teams in junior Formula is very different. With spec cars, spec engines etc theres very little to be gained other than having small influence on getting the best engineers and team orders. Lance still had to get that car into positions to win races.

You.. contradicted yourself and then agreed with me. “Lawrence Stroll doesn’t have a majority say, and he didn’t necessarily buy an F1 team to help his son’s career. He just decided to invest in a sport that’s almost a guaranteed financial loss, and was able to almost single-handedly bring AM back into the sport after a 70 year absence.” Why else would he do all of this, spend all that money with a 99% chance of not seeing a return on his investment, unless it was for the same reason he did it in lower formulae; i.e., assist his son’s career? Occam’s razor states: the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

 

[MagpieRacer]

You.. contradicted yourself and then agreed with me. “Lawrence Stroll doesn’t have a majority say, and he didn’t necessarily buy an F1 team to help his son’s career. He just decided to invest in a sport that’s almost a guaranteed financial loss, and was able to almost single-handedly bring AM back into the sport after a 70 year absence.” Why else would he do all of this, spend all that money with a 99% chance of not seeing a return on his investment, unless it was for the same reason he did it in lower formulae; i.e., assist his son’s career? Occam’s razor states: the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

I mean, you misquoted me completely but we'll gloss past that.

There was no contradiction, my point is that none of this guarantees Lance a seat in F1 no matter how much money is invested. Doesnt matter who his dad is or isn't or what team he does or doesn't own. Aston Martin and Racing Point are bigger than one man.

 

[Frank McGank]

I mean, you misquoted me completely but we'll gloss past that.

There was no contradiction, my point is that none of this guarantees Lance a seat in F1 no matter how much money is invested. Doesnt matter who his dad is or isn't or what team he does or doesn't own. Aston Martin and Racing Point are bigger than one man.

Yes they are. But when one man is providing the lion’s share of their funding, there’s a bloody good chance they’re going to do what he tells them to. If Lawrence pulls his capital out of them, that’s around 20-30% of their funding (if not more) that evaporates overnight. That would be financially devastating for RP and downright terminal for AM. Lawrence holds most of the cards in that relationship.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Yes they are. But when one man is providing the lion’s share of their funding, there’s a bloody good chance they’re going to do what he tells them to. If Lawrence pulls his capital out of them, that’s around 20-30% of their funding (if not more) that evaporates overnight. That would be financially devastating for RP and downright terminal for AM. Lawrence holds most of the cards in that relationship.

Yes he does. Lance however, doesn't. As I've said and reiterated, in the short term its unlikely. But it can happen.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It’s fairly obvious.

So an opinion. It just seemed to be presented as a fact.

The entire reason Lawrence has invested in motorsports at all is to help Lance’s career.

I think you're thinking of the wrong Lance Stroll, the one we're talking about wasn't born until quite a long time after Lawrence Stroll was a sponsor of the Lotus team.

I suppose it's more feasible that Lance had a fledgling motorsport career when he was one, that's probably why his father bought a racetrack.

Always bought Lance the best equipment, basically bought out and funded every team in his junior career

Yup, carbon-fibre pushchair with active-ride suspension.

Where’s YOUR evidence that Lawrence thought he could turn a profit by buying FI?

I don't need to produce any because that's a claim I never made.

 

[Frank McGank]

So an opinion. It just seemed to be presented as a fact.



I think you're thinking of the wrong Lance Stroll, the one we're talking about wasn't born until quite a long time after Lawrence Stroll was a sponsor of the Lotus team.

I suppose it's more feasible that Lance had a fledgling motorsport career when he was one, that's probably why his father bought a racetrack.



Yup, carbon-fibre pushchair with active-ride suspension.



I don't need to produce any because that's a claim I never made.

Have you got links to Stroll investing in Lotus? Because all the info I can find on the Lawrence Stroll I’M talking about says he built his wealth from investing in Tommy Hilfiger back in the 90s. Right around when the original Lotus died. And his ‘investment’ in Lotus was tantamount to buying minor advertising space between 1992 and 1994. No mention of him having a financial role in the team itself, but rather buying an advert. About as much an ‘investment’ as is UPS in Ferrari. It’s called ‘brand exposure’. He didn’t pull a Benetton.

You did, though. By disagreeing with me when I say “Lawrence Stroll bought out an F1 team to guarantee his son a drive”, you are saying “Lawrence Stroll bought out an F1 team because he felt like it. It’s a coincidence he tried to buy out the team his son originally drove for, and when they refused he bought out another team who coincidentally signed his son to drive for them shortly after.” Where’s your evidence he didn’t do it to further his son’s career? Because currently any observation of the situation says that’s the most likely scenario.

 

[Veinz]

Stroll sr is a big gear head. I suspect there’s a little more to it than him just making sure his son has a seat.

 

[-Fred-]

Stroll sr is a big gear head. I suspect theirs a little more to it than him just making sure his son has a seat.

He owns the Ferrari dealership in Montreal (along with at least a dozen vintage Ferraris and 2 McLaren F1s, just to name those), singlehandedly brought back the Mont-Tremblant circuit from the dead, which will host historic F1 coinjointly with Monaco starting in 2021, and has a majority stake in Aston Martin... but it's all a pet project for Lance, according to less educated people.

 

[Veinz]

The guy is pursuing his passion as far as I'm concerned. I also cannot be mad at him for giving his son so much support either. As a parent, I would do the same thing.

 

[Dennisch]

I like the panicking radio messages of Lance. I. HAVE NO ENERGY. Or that instead of him using KERS, he presses the radio button.

We need more shenanigans like that. Much better than a whining Lewis or Vettel, although Vettel lately sounds like someone who no longer gives a ****.

 

[Bram Turismo]

We need more shenanigans like that. Much better than a whining Lewis or Vettel, although Vettel lately sounds like someone who no longer gives a ****.

I was watching the race on the German TV, and the interview with Vettel was the most depressed interview I saw him giving. Even towards his own countrymen he was responding in a very irritated, very short and snappy manner. I thought maybe if he gets away from the toxic atmosphere at Ferrari he would become his former self again, but I rather have a feeling his morale is at an absolute minimum.

 

[MaxAttack]

I was watching the race on the German TV, and the interview with Vettel was the most depressed interview I saw him giving. Even towards his own countrymen he was responding in a very irritated, very short and snappy manner. I thought maybe if he gets away from the toxic atmosphere at Ferrari he would become his former self again, but I rather have a feeling his morale is at an absolute minimum.

I can't shake the feeling that Vettel is being quite disrespected this year. His career ahead seems to be short and he deserves a better send off from Ferrari than what he's being given - from where I sit I see Ferrari pulling a Max/RB and not bothering to support Seb in the slightest - as if they know the car is dog, and they've decided just to put all effort into getting the best they can out of Charles.

I think of Alonso, and I'm a fan of his, but he basically got an entire season long farewell tour after a half decade bitching down his radio in a sub par car. Vettel has had his confidence completely destroyed by a string of cars that don't suit him as a driver and a team that doesn't seem to have had a good relationship with any of its drivers since a certain square jawed German.

This is embarrassing for Vettel - a 4 time world champion and record breaking racer. I feel he deserves a little more of a nod from F1 and his fellows in the paddock.

To my mind from his view, the fact he is been there half a decade, and Ferrari of all manufacturers have never managed to build a winning car under him, is far more shameful than Vettel's difficulties as a driver, since he won 4 WDCs with a car built by an Austrian energy drink brand (read: Newey).

Such is the way of Italians and sport. Don't fix what isn't broken - even when all your competitors have invented something better. Vettel will always be held up next to Schumacher in the most unfair light now; "Well you are German, you were in the Ferrari, where are the championships?". If I were Seb I'd reply; ask Mattia.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Ross Brawn says that if Hamilton hadn't decided to join Mercedes when he did, Hulkenberg was their next choice.

How's that for an intriguing alternate timeline?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I can't shake the feeling that Vettel is being quite disrespected this year. His career ahead seems to be short and he deserves a better send off from Ferrari than what he's being given

I agree, but F1 has always been that way - they don't know where he'll end up next season and so important technical information/innovations are withheld from him. In this case it's a particularly sad end of the Ferrari dream for Vettel, but you have to admit that Ferrari machinations are always fascinating.

A general question to the forum: in Stroll Sr.'s interview with Sky he mentions a "grandfather clause" that he believes the FIA have made up. What specifically is the clause he's referring to? Some forum members will undoubtedly say it means that an even older family member has to buy Lance a new car.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

A general question to the forum: in Stroll Sr.'s interview with Sky he mentions a "grandfather clause" that he believes the FIA have made up. What specifically is the clause he's referring to? Some forum members will undoubtedly say it means that an even older family member has to buy Lance a new car.

It is to do with the parts and how they come to be designed. The 2019 front brake discs were listed parts, so Racing Point used them on the RP19 within the rules. They were then later removed from that list ahead of 2020, but with the parts in their possession, Racing Point were able to make copies but "of their own design". I think the Grandfather analogy comes from the train of thought where the 2020 RP20 brake ducts are the child:

2020 RP20 Duct <- 2019 RP19 Duct <- 2019 W10 Duct

This is fine for the front brake ducts, but the rear ducts were never listed, so Racing Point should never have owned a raced version of them before 2020. You therefore remove the "father" from the analogy and you are left with Racing Point using Mercedes design

2020 RP20 Duct <- 2019 W10 Duct

 

[MagpieRacer]

Some speculation gathering that Vettel may not see out the season. No hard source otherbthan a few outlets citijg possibility and insiders hinting that the relationship has broken beyond repair to the point that continuing benefits no one.

 

[McLaren]

Some speculation gathering that Vettel may not see out the season. No hard source otherbthan a few outlets citijg possibility and insiders hinting that the relationship has broken beyond repair to the point that continuing benefits no one.

Looks like according to Motorsport.com, Binotto is open to letting Seb. make adjustments on the chassis if it helps him & the team.

Guessing a last attempt to get both parties on the same page before one of the two calls it quits early.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

If Seb leaves. Does hulk get the seat for the season? I'd want him in my car if i was binotto. McLaren wont let sainz go early. Unless Ferrari pay him out big time.

Then McLaren could snatch up hulk.

 

[McLaren]

Looks like according to Motorsport.com, Binotto is open to letting Seb. make adjustments on the chassis if it helps him & the team.

Guessing a last attempt to get both parties on the same page before one of the two calls it quits early.

Didn't take long apparently.

Sebastian Vettel will get a new chassis for this weekend's Formula 1 Spanish Grand Prix after Ferrari found a "small fault" on his car after last Sunday's race at Silverstone.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151310/vettel-gets-new-chassis-for-spain-after-fault-found

It was caused by impact over a kerb & would not have much of an effect on performance, according to the head of chassis engineering. Doesn't seem like the new chassis will actually do much for Seb. based on that?

 

[Jimlaad43]

ld not have much of an effect on performance, according to the head of chassis engineering. Doesn't seem like the new chassis will actually do much for Seb. based on that?

Often a chassis change is more of a psychological change, rather than a physical one. It's basically a placebo effect in action and should give Seb a chance to reset and "blame" his poor performance on the chassis and be able to get back on with it.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

That or the chassis engineer is protecting his job by downplaying the effect of not spotting the defect earlier...

 

[DesertPenguin]

Lando Norris is a legend

 

[Liquid]

Ross Brawn says that if Hamilton hadn't decided to join Mercedes when he did, Hulkenberg was their next choice.

How's that for an intriguing alternate timeline?

Rosberg would have wiped the floor with him.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Rosberg would have wiped the floor with him.

I was thinking more along the lines of how different things might look now if Hamilton had chosen to stay with McLaren, but you're not wrong.

 

[Jimlaad43]

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/22/racefans-round-up-22-08-3/

So according to one of the articles in here, Helmut Marko has Saud that Kvyat isn't performing as expected. Call it a conspiracy theory, but this seems like the first hint that there may be movement at Red Bull.

I wouldn't be surprised if Albon gets dumped back at AlphaTauri at the expense of Kvyat (who has now been quoted to be not up to what was expected), and Red Bull put a quick fix of Vettel or Hulkenberg in the second Red Bull to partner Verstappen, either during this season or for next. Red Bull will be too wary of promoting Gasly, despite his upturn of form, after his failure last year put them in this mess in the first place. Call it farfetched, but if it happens, you heard it here first.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I could definitely see that happening given how they like to shuffle their drivers around. They wouldn't hesitate to drop Kvyat if he doesn't improve. He was already dropped for 2018.