4 wheel drift

[vinkento]

You stick your fists up that humongous a$$ of yours. But then you might get the herpes between your fingers and that would itch like hell.

 

[Shinez]

That was just retarded...

 

[vinkento]

Trying to get into the swing of being a complete moron, so that I can have a reasonably decent conversation with someone of the same stature of intelligence. (i.e. YOU)

 

[DrifterYamez]

To clarify, all four wheeks lost traction, yes I used the e-brake to initiate the side ways, however I set it up to go through the corner sidewas without need for any more e brake or steering input. I did not ens up losing control and drove right out of it, call it what you may but thats what happended

 

[vinkento]

Hmmmmm, either way, if it looks cool on the replay, that's fine with me.

 

[Shinez]

Vinkento'z momma looks cool on the replay..... <--Look at the crowd laugh at you....Look..Keep looking

 

[vinkento]

They sure are laughing hard, but not as hard as I'm laughing about how small my mother sais your ***** is.
See, that's more than what you have, did you notice that? See, there's more. HAHA!

 

[Thio]

Would the moderators care to see this?

 

[huZba]

Originally posted by DrifterYamez
To clarify, all four wheeks lost traction, yes I used the e-brake to initiate the side ways, however I set it up to go through the corner sidewas without need for any more e brake or steering input. I did not ens up losing control and drove right out of it, call it what you may but thats what happended

I haven't seen the clip, but from what i can see, it sounds like a 4 wheel drift to me. This babble about no control is just nonsense. No control means that you're a total passenger just waiting for the car to do something on it's own. With an FF you control the drift all the time by the accelerator and brake. You see this in rally all the time(on tarmac). You brake with your left foot and control the accel with you right one. This means you have total control of the amount of grip on each tyre. Even with no countersteer you still control the force pulling the car and the direction can be changed by changing the amount of tracion on each tyre.
To make things clear, when the car is sideways it still has grip on all four tyres... if it didn't you'd be sliding forever since there's nothing to keep you on the road or anything. Inventing something that reduces the traction to zero would get you a nobel brize.

 

[vinkento]

Thio, I apologize for my rude behavior. It's just... Shinez started itttt

 

[TruenoAE86]

Originally posted by huZba

To make things clear, when the car is sideways it still has grip on all four tyres... if it didn't you'd be sliding forever since there's nothing to keep you on the road or anything. Inventing something that reduces the traction to zero would get you a nobel brize.

I think this goes for everyone one. When I say there is a loss of taction it doesn't mean the friction goes to zero it means there is a reduction of friction. A tire, or anything for that matter, can give more traction when it is rolling (or not moving relative to the ground) VS when it is sliding so when the tier begins to slide there is in fact a loss of traction, just not a complete loss.

 

[bengee]

when people say loss of traction... they imply that the friction force that can be supplied by the ground upon the wheels is already exceeded... this doesnt mean that there is no grip... it only means that there can be no more applied to wheel(s) that have lost traction... in fr and mr and 4wd the control of this loss of traction can be easily controlled with acceleration ( acc or braking) of the wheels and slip angle that the wheels make with the ground. i will not discuss the different entry types in drifting because peple already understand what happens... back swings out due to loss of grip first (oversteer)... in a drift acc of back wheels (greater than that of the front) will continue and allow control over back wheel traction... this allows one to easily control the slip on these wheels as long as the car is maintaining some angle with the turn... when tangent to the turn a much higher torque is needed to induce slippage than at a higher angle... however at higher angles speed will diminish much more quickly as all friction force generated by wheels on ground is in the opposite direction to the desired motion and less in the direction of the way wheels can turn... the front wheels can of course be controlled in a similar way by the angle they make while steering.... this allows one to control speed direction by the angle of the friction force with that of the car... (this is why cars do not completely spin when countersteer is employed). relative speed is of course an important factor in what i have just said... but not important for the basics that i have tried to express...

HUzba i am not saying that ff cannot drift but i cannot rationalize it in my own head... i am really curious to understand how you prolong the slip once you initiate it... while i can initiate it in ff cars... i do not understand how i can prevent the rear tires from re establishing a grip thresh hold once i am in the turn... which results in what most people experience with ff cars understeer and a pulling out of a drift early (without use of e brakes that is... which i have never tried)... since all angle and torque is applied only to front wheels the rear seem to be just along for the ride and dont seem to serve much more purpose than to support the car in a stable way...
please explain what you do...

 

[akina_86]

i could ff drift but i wish i can show u guys....sorry

 

[TruenoAE86]

Well if anyone wants to see good FF drifting just DL gran dorifto 2.

 

[Shinez]

huzba...in a FF drift the only thing controlling the car is the brake..Once the accelerator is used..you're not longer drifting..because that will cause your back end to whip into the correct direction

 

[Z E V]

Originally posted by Shinez
How do you know this..Tell me how you know this exactly..Tell me how losing traction in ALL 4 Tires on a car that isn't AWD is a drift...;;;

Well back in the 1930s Tazio Nuvolari used to throw his MR cars into four wheel drifts around corners. Using four wheel drifts is the fastest type of cornering, but the slip angles have been reduced to nearly imperceptable levels with the development of new rubbers and tire designs, and aerodynamic downforce. Observe this quote-->

"At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in the ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight with the car in a perfect position. I looked at him, his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not the face of someone who had just escaped a hair-raising spin. I had the same sensation at the second bend. By the fourth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime, I had noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend, I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instinct would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he had obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four-wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."

Enzo Ferrari

 

[huZba]

Originally posted by Shinez
huzba...in a FF drift the only thing controlling the car is the brake..Once the accelerator is used..you're not longer drifting..because that will cause your back end to whip into the correct direction

That happens when you countersteer too much. Rally drivers slide FFs all the time on tarmac and they don't need the E-brake.
To make everyone understand what i mean... watch the initial-D episode where they drift the honda civic. Minimal countersteer and left foor braking.

 

[Shinez]

Lol..oh my god...first of all when it comes to rally cars on tarmac, when they have tires suited for the occasion they don't really do ANYTHING resembling a drift..maybe it'll slip an inch....but come on...And when they do Slide on tarmac is when they have tires that are for a different terrain which doesn't acount for anything either....And I swear..if someone tells this group to refer to initial D to find the truth in some form of drifting...oh my god...Seriously I know there was alot of aid in the realism of the show, but for 1...it was a Civic...Drifting a 10 second corner...Without losing Power or speed and remaining sideways..Oh yeah REALISTIC INDEED

 

[Shinez]

Well back in the 1930s Tazio Nuvolari used to throw his MR cars into four wheel drifts around corners. Using four wheel drifts is the fastest type of cornering, but the slip angles have been reduced to nearly imperceptable levels with the development of new rubbers and tire designs, and aerodynamic downforce.

Ok.If Four Wheel Drifting is the fastest type of cornering, how come F1 cars don't slide all around the place, and second..If it IS the fastest type of cornering and IS a drift, how come you don't see them taking advantage of that in Dori races?

 

[vinkento]

F1s are made to grip like they do, If drifting wasn't terribly terribly dangerous, companies would spend lots of money in development for cars designed to drift. Car corporation's first priority in cars is safety.

 

[lifestream]

Probably because f1 racers don't know how to drift, those kind of cars aren't designed for drifting. anyways. Thats why they have nice grippy tires~

And this is for HubZa. Being a big Initial D fan I can't really say anything bad about it but... First of all hes using the E brake and the break to drift those turns.. and some of them would not be possible irl, because they are longer then a FF car could actually drift. But even so, you would still lose a ton of speed.

Just a reminder here for everyone that uses Initial D in their posting... Initial D had some professional drifters helping out in the creation of the anime, and they did some studying on drifting. The concepts behind Initial D are very real, but the things done inside the anime are definately not. Takumi is doing what was said to be 4 Wheel Drifts at around 110- 120mph, yet when u see him drift they look like all out sideways exhibition drifts... A 4 wheel drift doesn't even look like anything... so.. guys please be careful when u reference Initial D... because its just an anime

 

[vinkento]

I do remember that the Speedometers in Initial D were in KMH, I don't ever remember Takumi going over 140kmh, Which is only around like 85mph.

 

[TruenoAE86]

Originally posted by Shinez
Lol..oh my god...first of all when it comes to rally cars on tarmac, when they have tires suited for the occasion they don't really do ANYTHING resembling a drift..maybe it'll slip an inch....but come on...And when they do Slide on tarmac is when they have tires that are for a different terrain which doesn't acount for anything either....And I swear..if someone tells this group to refer to initial D to find the truth in some form of drifting...oh my god...Seriously I know there was alot of aid in the realism of the show, but for 1...it was a Civic...Drifting a 10 second corner...Without losing Power or speed and remaining sideways..Oh yeah REALISTIC INDEED

The drifting done with the Civic was just to adjust the angle since it was a "gum tape death match". He did not drift at any kind of pronounced angle; it was very slight. But yes most of the stuff in Initial D is not realistic and in most cases should not be compared to RL.

 

[bengee]

yahhh... huzba you had me going i was gonna give you a chance but then you said he drifted in id with left foot braking... incorrect he did the left foot braking to correct his line as the car slid of the ideal line...

shinez in a true 4wheel drift the slip angle is not that great and the reason y it would be the fastest way around a corner is because grip and therefore force available for forward and centripital acc is maximized... making it the fastest possible way through a desired line... sometimes however such a line does not exist where one can maintain this and in such cases the shortest line ( being the straightest possible line) is usually the fastest line because it will take the least amount of time to travel through...

 

[Shinez]

The drifting done with the Civic was just to adjust the angle since it was a "gum tape death match". He did not drift at any kind of pronounced angle; it was very slight. But yes most of the stuff in Initial D is not realistic and in most cases should not be compared to RL.

The drift angle was very slight? Go watch the episode again man...That was NOT slight...Second...when he drifted against whatever the guys name is in the Silvia that he knocked off the pass....That wasn't slight either..Lol...

 

[bengee]

iketani is the guys name in the sylvia... i do not remember the dude even drifting...lol... i just remember the left foot braking technique... i dont ever remember seeing him sideways

 

[bengee]

i dunno maybe i am on crack

 

[vinkento]

iketani powerslided only in the series, he did it a few times in the early episodes

 

[LanEvo]

he was still learning hand-brake traction breaking technique before the end. i would say maybe itsuki is a better drifter...but other than those 2, none of the akina "speed stars" could drift for beanz

 

[vinkento]

hehehe, you only saw itsuki drift at the end of the series, and that was only 1 turn.