Aggressive driving in Sport Mode.

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anthaliscious


What do you guys think of this incident? People don’t agree with the block, people don’t agree on where he was going to pass. Who is right and wrong here:odd:
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Racing incident 10/10. If I were IOF Racing, I would've definitely tried the inside. From his perspective, going around the outside is a really wide line that not only costs time, but also has less of an overtaking opportunity

If I were you though, I would also defend the inside knowing that this would be Racing's mindset. Your defense wasn't reactionary- it was anticipatory. If it weren't for the slight bump I'd consider it a textbook defensive maneuver
 
If I were to let him go below the white line into pit exit basically, he would’ve been heading straight towards the inside wall the starts to angle towards the track, then the grass immediately after. He wouldn’t have cleared me in time of the wall or the grass. He would’ve ended up braking 3 wide into the grass and most likely domino Lester and I.
 
anthaliscious


What do you guys think of this incident? People don’t agree with the block, people don’t agree on where he was going to pass. Who is right and wrong here:odd:
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I don't agree with block, so un sportmanship. IMHO, you choose 1 line and stay on that line, weaving is a big NO for me
 
anthaliscious
If I were to let him go below the white line into pit exit basically, he would’ve been heading straight towards the inside wall the starts to angle towards the track, then the grass immediately after. He wouldn’t have cleared me in time of the wall or the grass. He would’ve ended up braking 3 wide into the grass and most likely domino Lester and I.
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Interesting perspective! Didn't think about that
 
anthaliscious


What do you guys think of this incident? People don’t agree with the block, people don’t agree on where he was going to pass. Who is right and wrong here:odd:
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My humble opinion ( I'm still and constantly learning :) ) :

Everyone's ok except the P3 car ... what a stupid attempt to overtake on the very inside. On a side note, I really hate it when someone tries to take a line that's leading to nowhere :rolleyes:.
You made one defensive move and returned to the racing line, so that's perfectly ok I think. On top, aside from rules, you probably have saved the top 3 from carnage that could have happened if P3 had went into the grass ...

PS
He even disrespects P2 going through the chicane - that's not been the "2-wide-line" imo.

Edited for AUP
 
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BallPtPenTheif
Are you familiar with the characteristics of the mini? It seemed weird how it would rev up fast and high while turning and then bog itself down on the straights. It also felt like the car would pull to the left while trying to accelerate out of a turn. It's a fun car to drive but I can't make any sense of what the engine is doing.
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Yes, whilst the wheels are turned, you're spinning the inside front wheel and the revs rise (if you look carefully, you can see smoke coming from the front wheel of cars in front of you) - as soon as you get the wheels straight, and the car level, the inside wheel regains grip and the revs drop. Like most FF cars, it suffers from torque steer, hence the pulling on the steering on acceleration.

Like many people who learnt to drive in the UK in the 60s or 70s, I learnt in a Mini, albeit the bog standard 850cc version, not a Cooper! With limited power you certainly learnt a lot about keeping up momentum, but the handling was great, so you didn't need to slow much for corners.

I'm sure all that experience is helping me with the current daily race!
 
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azrilnazli
I don't agree with block, so un sportmanship. IMHO, you choose 1 line and stay on that line, weaving is a big NO for me
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That was neither weaving or crowding the car off the track. Ant doesn’t notice IOF’s overspeed until the filling in the sandwich moves out of his slipstream, he reacts. IOF tries to force the issue and the result was what it was.
 
mthomas_95
Going for a gap that doesn't exist and risking a 3 car pile up is an even bigger no for me.

It was a certain Brazilian that made going for non-existent gaps popular and used by many to justify dirty driving :lol:
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How you'd know that his action will cause a wreck ?

I call that a weaving since I experienced that move a lot on GTS b/s on my region. I always drive Mustang, well known for top speed and I rely on that to beat 4wds / lighter cars. But when they saw me approaching from behind, what I get is always a block

- last minute block at Suzuka straight
- last minute block at Conrod straight
- this week's nurb GP at straight before T1

Well that is my opinion. Mine will not align with other popular views.
 
azrilnazli
How you'd know that his action will cause a wreck ?

I call that a weaving since I experienced that move a lot on GTS b/s on my region. I always drive Mustang, well known for top speed and I rely on that to beat 4wds / lighter cars. But when they saw me approaching from behind, what I get is always a block

- last minute block at Suzuka straight
- last minute block at Conrod straight
- this week's nurb GP at straight before T1

Well that is my opinion. Mine will not align with other popular views.
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Define weaving.
 
azrilnazli
I call that a weaving since I experienced that move a lot on GTS b/s on my region. I always drive Mustang, well known for top speed and I rely on that to beat 4wds / lighter cars. But when they saw me approaching from behind, what I get is always a block

...

Well that is my opinion. Mine will not align with other popular views.
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It's not weaving.

"20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off-line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner."
http://www.f1-grandprix.com/?p=869

F-1 rules are considered the most stringent due to their open wheel configuration and even under F-1 Regulations that block was legal.
 
azrilnazli
How you'd know that his action will cause a wreck ?

I call that a weaving since I experienced that move a lot on GTS b/s on my region. I always drive Mustang, well known for top speed and I rely on that to beat 4wds / lighter cars. But when they saw me approaching from behind, what I get is always a block

- last minute block at Suzuka straight
- last minute block at Conrod straight
- this week's nurb GP at straight before T1

Well that is my opinion. Mine will not align with other popular views.
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They were just making their car as wide as possible in a three car battle. No weaving but good positioning.

My take on it. If IOF had managed to go three wide, he'd have seen there was nowhere to go without squeezing ANT into the middle of the track and there was no chance of that happening with lester on the outside. I'm curious though. If ANT had stayed left of the white line, would IOF have risked it... By the time he'd pulled level, he'd see the wall squeezing the track with the grass afterwards and either he gets through or all 3 are playing pinball.

Lester was caught napping at the chicane though. IOF nips through and half a car in front when lester wakes up and bumps him. IOF might have turned in a little too early but it's hard to tell for sure.

Good hard racing on the straight and fairish battling through the chicane. Nothing to complain about in my opinion.
 
He should have corrected left and gone for the gap in between imo. Yet bump, bump, bump, too much bumping for me.

ROCKET JOE
I'm not familiar with bump drafting. Are there fairness rules to it like swapping position after a lap or similar ?
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The only rule the game has is don't do it. You don't get a time penalty and probably no SR Down warning either, yet rest assured you'll have a red rating at the end of the race when you consistently push another car ahead. At least until before the last update the car that gets pushed got away clear, so if you want to have a fun race and don't care about SR, find a stable driver and push away!
 
anthaliscious


What do you guys think of this incident? People don’t agree with the block, people don’t agree on where he was going to pass. Who is right and wrong here:odd:
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The IOF guy was just going to shove you over into the next guy with a pass through there anyway. The block is justified in this case.
 
I've watched ANT and IOF racing quite a lot through NicoR's streams and don't think IOF would have tried to complete the move. IOF also looked like he guessed ANT would defend against lester but had nowhere to go when ANT defended against him with his one line change. To be honest, if I was IOF and had that speed from the double tow, I'd have a look to see if there was room to pass or try to drag ANT right to make room on the left.

In the context of this thread, that video doesn't fit as it's typical battling for position on the final 3rd of the Monza straight. ANT only had to move 3 feet to the right to cover the line so I wouldn't even call it a block.

If IOF had managed to get 3 wide, we'd have something to talk about but from what I've seen of him, he would have backed out as soon as he had a clear view of the track.

It's the main thing I like about the top 24 or top split races. Just the right amount of aggression but with clear intent so there's less surprises. I've seen some shady moves from them but they're much rarer that high up in the rankings with how close they are on pace.

@anthaliscious Did IOF complain he was blocked?
 
Good read above about FT_Ant's race incident. I've noticed that most of you have been commenting very moderate based on the facts - rightly so !
I've been quite harsh with IOF due to my own experience. It's one of my nightmare scenarios that happened a couple of times already :
You run down some straight with another car slipstreaming you, you decide to defend covering the inside. Instead of attempting the overtake on the open outside part of the track, the driver behind tries to force it on the other, puts two wheels on the grass no matter what the risk.
To me that's shameless and stupid and usually I'd refuse to give in and move straight on, but well, ...
1. How do you find such action ?
2. How would you react ?

kilesa4568
... In the context of this thread, that video doesn't fit as it's typical battling for position ...
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👍

Still great to talk about it - might help a lot of people to finally tell pure hard battling from being overly aggressive and unfair.
 
ROCKET JOE
To me that's shameless and stupid and usually I'd refuse to give in and move straight on, but well, ...
1. How do you find such action ?
2. How would you react ?
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I've been on the receiving end of those sorts of moves myself. With them thinking their superior draft entitles them to try and force the pass through but it usually never ends well going 3 wide. That would be overly aggressive and unfair to the other 2 drivers but as it's sport mode, damage limitation would kick in for me. I'll cut my losses and tuck in behind to limit risk or losing more time.

It's gaming sport mode I suppose but I'll take a safe 2nd over a risky 1st any day of the week. Maybe it's a little nitty to race that way but with all the people writing cheques their skills can't cash, including me if I try and dig my heels in, it's a lot safer.

ROCKET JOE
Still great to talk about it - might help a lot of people to finally tell pure hard battling from being overly aggressive and unfair.
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It helps to be pragmatic when you watch clips like that. It's full of if's and maybe's that never actually happen.

It was just the right amount of aggression but I'm taking their skills into account when I say that. They've got full car control at optimum speed and know what they're doing.

We see the same dramas with F1 at Monza's chicane that's classed as a racing incident so no problem for me there. That chicane is always notorious for talking points anyway.
 
anthaliscious


What do you guys think of this incident? People don’t agree with the block, people don’t agree on where he was going to pass. Who is right and wrong here:odd:
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I think there is no way...even with the draft, that they complete the pass and get back on the racing line before the grass starts which then causes a heap more problems for p1 and p2. So good blocking in my opinion
 
I started writing a long post about this a few days ago but the argument with the guy making bold comparisons between himself and someone who's won multiple Formula 1 races has since stopped so I'll try an abridged version.

In my time playing this game and posting on here regularly since the August update there's been a considerable disparity between the way I've played it, the way I've seen others play it and the way people post about it on here. Of all the people who've ever played GT Sport online, only a fraction of them are really any good. To put this into context, I'm comfortably a DR/B level player and have been pretty consistently. I play with a DS4 using automatic transmission and (I've discovered) rarely have the attention span I'd like in races.

When you drive against someone who's deliberately dirty you know, and you can tell. When you drive against people who're blatantly stupid you can tell. When someone's weaving on a straight on the first lap trying to stop people from slipstreaming you, they're a moron. When someone tries to drive into you on a straight as you're alongside each other, they're a moron and doing it deliberately. When someone brakes too late into a corner and makes contact with you or somehow impinges you, it's not as certain.

The vast majority of people playing the game and that you play against won't be S/S level. They won't have every braking point down off by heart, they won't have complete control of the car at every corner and they're not going to be perfect at overtaking. Multiple pages of this thread concerned someone making a pass at the last corner at Interlagos, judging whether or not it was fair because he went really tight on the inside. Around the time this was going on I was continually doing a similar thing at the bottom of the hill at Dragon Trail Gardens. I'm not trying to be dirty, I didn't think I was even being particularly unfair to others. I took a different line through the corner and sometimes people drove into me even though I had position and the line of the corner.

I think a proportion of people on gtplanet, and I'm not naming names because I don't know anyone here, have an inflated sense of what to expect from people they play against online. Truly aggressive and dirty driving is easy to spot and that's fair enough, but in my experience a lot of it just comes down to not being the sort of perfect professional racing driver we all probably watch in some league/class or another on a regular basis. The sooner you accept that and be prepared to handle it the better time you'll have playing the game.
 
stpatty
I think a proportion of people on gtplanet, and I'm not naming names because I don't know anyone here, have an inflated sense of what to expect from people they play against online. Truly aggressive and dirty driving is easy to spot and that's fair enough, but in my experience a lot of it just comes down to not being the sort of perfect professional racing driver we all probably watch in some league/class or another on a regular basis. The sooner you accept that and be prepared to handle it the better time you'll have playing the game.
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I think your wrong, a quick glance at folks SR trace on KP tells you everything you need to know. It can be split into three basic groups, those that race but cant be safe with a permanently low SR, those that race but their SR fluctuates from high to low, those that race and their SR remains high.

GTS needs to further distinguish safe racers and fluctuating racers. Trust me its obvious when your racing gamed SR’s.
 
@stpatty is also right.

Ability decreases the further down the ranks you race and your level of expectation should go down with it and with SR often written in crayon, you can't always expect an SRS to be a true SRS.

Like me with my current DRB. I can defend against some of the more aggressive moves without going over my limit but experience has shown me how high risk that can be. They've already committed to an ill advised move and trying to defend against it usually comes to grief as they'll still try to force the move through. To keep time loss to a minimum, ceding the position you thought was safe keeps you in the race and maintains a high SR easier.

It's Sport Mode mode. Keep the risks to the bare minimum and don't trust anyone until they prove they can be trusted...which isn't very often.

I think where sport mode is now is permanent. It's always going to be aggressive with point chasers so if you don't have a contingency for that, you're in for a hard time with it.
 
kilesa4568
@stpatty is also right.

Ability decreases the further down the ranks you race and your level of expectation should go down with it and with SR often written in crayon, you can't always expect an SRS to be a true SRS.

Like me with my current DRB. I can defend against some of the more aggressive moves without going over my limit but experience has shown me how high risk that can be. They've already committed to an ill advised move and trying to defend against it usually comes to grief as they'll still try to force the move through. To keep time loss to a minimum, ceding the position you thought was safe keeps you in the race and maintains a high SR easier.

It's Sport Mode mode. Keep the risks to the bare minimum and don't trust anyone until they prove they can be trusted...which isn't very often.

I think where sport mode is now is permanent. It's always going to be aggressive with point chasers so if you don't have a contingency for that, you're in for a hard time with it.
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Sport Mode is mostly... gone to the dogs... a bare bone for dogs to carv their teeth... not more than that... and we are talking about... enraged dogs...
 
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kilesa4568
@stpatty is also right.

Ability decreases the further down the ranks you race and your level of expectation should go down with it and with SR often written in crayon, you can't always expect an SRS to be a true SRS.

Like me with my current DRB. I can defend against some of the more aggressive moves without going over my limit but experience has shown me how high risk that can be. They've already committed to an ill advised move and trying to defend against it usually comes to grief as they'll still try to force the move through. To keep time loss to a minimum, ceding the position you thought was safe keeps you in the race and maintains a high SR easier.

It's Sport Mode mode. Keep the risks to the bare minimum and don't trust anyone until they prove they can be trusted...which isn't very often.

I think where sport mode is now is permanent. It's always going to be aggressive with point chasers so if you don't have a contingency for that, you're in for a hard time with it.
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Yet theres an easy fix for this, rather than SR being only as good as your last race it should take into account your SR history, this would go a long way to weeding out those whose SR’s bounce up and down. Then an SR S would be more representative.
 
Borderline unplayable this weekend, unusual for me to get time to play but squeezed in 3 races and all were just horrible. Either rammed off from miles back or if someone catches me i get pushed off and if i catch someone they initiate contact.

It's ridiculous right now.
 
rono_thomas
Yet theres an easy fix for this, rather than SR being only as good as your last race it should take into account your SR history, this would go a long way to weeding out those whose SR’s bounce up and down. Then an SR S would be more representative.
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I agree with you. The SRS band needs to be halved as it's way too vague with its 19 point spread but I doubt that will happen as it will probably put strain on the matchmaking.

The cynical side of me thinks there's an opportunity to bank on a good run of safe races to allow for one or two misdemeanours with an average SR system though. There has to be a real danger of immediately losing SR points with the knee jerk reactions and poor decisions you regularly see people make.
 
kilesa4568
I agree with you. The SRS band needs to be halved as it's way too vague with its 19 point spread but I doubt that will happen as it will probably put strain on the matchmaking.

The cynical side of me thinks there's an opportunity to bank on a good run of safe races to allow for one or two misdemeanours with an average SR system though. There has to be a real danger of immediately losing SR points with the knee jerk reactions and poor decisions you regularly see people make.
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It's already halved. Matchmaking first matchs 90 to 99 SR together, A+/S to D/S until it can't make a full lobby anymore. Then it will increase the range to full SR.S or even add SR.A to get the room full. When your SR drops to 89 you get matched with a different group of people.

PD could half the point 'budget' for 80 to 89 and quarter it for 90 to 99. Once you get to 99 you basically have points to use up for dirty driving. Instead it should be hard to stay there instead of having a cushion. The problem with that is, there aren't enough people at SR.S as it is. Perhaps it's time to do away with the region locks and do some more advanced matching on actual lag. My ping time to Europe is lower than to South America, yet I'm stuck with the smaller pool of the America server.
 

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