Alfa Z-Cup - Johnnypenso and Carracerptp Z-Cup Co-Champions!

[WRP001]

My approach to the chicane is to avoid the curb on entry. It seems to unsettle the car more than I am comfortable with, especially in a race where I'm trying to get through it every time without contact. I usually get two wheels on the curb on exit, but I try to wait until I get the car rotated before hitting the curb, and I'm very careful with the throttle until I'm off the curb. Then again, I'm one of the slower guys in this series, so maybe you should just do opposite of what I say

I found the exact same thing with this car during my practice runs. With the cars I've raced here in the past the curb didn't upset the car as much... maybe different suspensions or ride heights? That's why I'm very interested to see how the guys hitting 46s are going through that corner.

 

[Johnnypenso]

One thing I'd really like to see is the historic original version of the track without the chicane, at least the option with or without like Monza or LeMans...

 

[BrandonW77]

If you move any races from Tuesday either for Valentines day or maintenance any chance they can be scheduled on Monday or Thursday would be great. We have WRS online races every Wednesday basically overlapping both time slots so that would eliminate a good set of us. If there's no choice then you gotta do what you gotta do and we can race Friday / Saturday those weeks. Of all the races of the season Spa is the one I'm most looking forward to and would like to get that one in as often as possible.

Or as a compromise move one to Wednesday and one to Monday or Thursday?

Very unlikely that we'd move them to Wednesday as I'm not available that day. Monday is the most likely option and the one I would prefer. We can keep the Tuesday EST race on Tuesday as usual if nobody('s wife/girlfriend) objects but I know we have to move the Tuesday GMT race as RDAardvark won't be available that day (under threat of castration).

 

[WRP001]

Very unlikely that we'd move them to Wednesday as I'm not available that day. Monday is the most likely option and the one I would prefer. We can keep the Tuesday EST race on Tuesday as usual if nobody('s wife/girlfriend) objects but I know we have to move the Tuesday GMT race as RDAardvark won't be available that day (under threat of castration).

I'm just guessing here, but I would assume 8:00 PM EST someone's wife / girlfriend is going to object! That's prime dinner date time isn't it? I can't really make 5:00 PM PST any night so I don't have a vested interest, but I'm thinking both should be moved.

Also the title of the thread says next event Tuesday 8PM EST... isn't it GMT?

 

[BrandonW77]

I'm just guessing here, but I would assume 8:00 PM EST someone's wife / girlfriend is going to object! That's prime dinner date time isn't it? I can't really make 5:00 PM PST any night so I don't have a vested interest, but I'm thinking both should be moved.

That's why I was suggesting to move it to Monday, I don't want any of our guys ending up in the dog-house!! I'm fine with either Monday or Tuesday (GT5 is my mistress) so I'll host that race whenever it fits for the majority (presumably Monday at 8pm EST).

Also the title of the thread says next event Tuesday 8PM EST... isn't it GMT?

I don't know what you're speaking of. <-----

 

[Naptown25rs]

That's why I was suggesting to move it to Monday, I don't want any of our guys ending up in the dog-house!! I'm fine with either Monday or Tuesday (GT5 is my mistress) so I'll host that race whenever it fits for the majority (presumably Monday at 8pm EST).

I don't know what you're speaking of. <-----

Monday works fine for me.

 

[Blind829]

Monday would be ideal for me too.

I also found it interesting the US version of Top Gear decided to have their season premiere on the 14th, I'm not sure what they were thinking.

 

[Naptown25rs]

Monday would be ideal for me too.

I also found it interesting the US version of Top Gear decided to have their season premiere on the 14th, I'm not sure what they were thinking.

Who actually watches the US version of Top Gear?

 

[Blind829]

Who actually watches the US version of Top Gear?

Haha, I usually give them a chance every year, so far we've been let down.

 

[carracerptp]

And I agree 100% that this is cutting it too close for an online race. Any driver is going to miss their perfect mark a large % of the time and if you aim for that you are going to be dirty half the times you miss... bad form. Which is why I prefer the wall to be there and eliminate that issue.

I would like a wall too, if you mess up, instant fix. No need for a penalty.

Did some research... it was our very own Chuk!!!!

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5137834#post5137834

100 points for him.

I found the exact same thing with this car during my practice runs. With the cars I've raced here in the past the curb didn't upset the car as much... maybe different suspensions or ride heights? That's why I'm very interested to see how the guys hitting 46s are going through that corner.

When I was digging for a 26 I was heavy on the curbs (but not like Chuk).
If you off the gas you can keep the car settled better. braking or throttle kills it. It's all about weight transfer.

And how deep in the 26s are guys getting? 26.5 are my best sectors add up.

I actually cut on my first 26.9, came back the next lap and did it clean. I'm not going to be running 26s in a race as I would be way to close to the limit. I will try in the Q sessions though, if I miss and cut, I slow down, wait, then finish my lap making sure I'm under my best lap so the time won't register.
Then try again. Is that method OK?

 

[dsgerbc]

the US version of Top Gear decided to have their season premiere on the 14th, I'm not sure what they were thinking.

B No, must resist.
Doesn't matter when they come out for DVR to record

 

[BrandonW77]

I actually cut on my first 26.9, came back the next lap and did it clean. I'm not going to be running 26s in a race as I would be way to close to the limit.

Most importantly, you won't be running 26s in the race because you'll be dealing with traffic, will have a draft, etc. Hot laps don't mean much when it comes to racing with other cars.

I will try in the Q sessions though, if I miss and cut, I slow down, wait, then finish my lap making sure I'm under my best lap so the time won't register.
Then try again. Is that method OK?

Yes, that method is fine and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

 

[WRP001]

I actually cut on my first 26.9, came back the next lap and did it clean. I'm not going to be running 26s in a race as I would be way to close to the limit. I will try in the Q sessions though, if I miss and cut, I slow down, wait, then finish my lap making sure I'm under my best lap so the time won't register.
Then try again. Is that method OK?

OK? That's exactly how it should be done! Anytime you cut to save time you should lift so you don't gain from your own mistake. 👍

Now that reminds me. I watched a replay from Monza and Chuk was on pole for the reverse grid race. He led clean through the first chicane, missed his brake point for the 2nd chicane and cut it badly, but then pulled over and let the entire field pass to pay for the mistake. That's a bit extreme don't you think? What do you guys think would be the correct thing to do in the case as described?

If it were me I'd have lifted to let the 2nd car gain my bumper again eliminating any benefit from my mistake and then kept going. Or maybe let the 2nd car pass me at the extreme. If I did it several times in a race I would expect to get a penalty even if I did let the cars re-catch, but on the first lap on cold tires I would think just slowing to eliminate the advantage would be suffice.

I have to say I saw one car (not to be named) miss his entry to the first part of a chicane while following and then cut the 2nd half in order to stay in the draft. I say that's very bad form. If you miss the first half of a chicane and go too deep then you should have to slow to make the 2nd half clean and thus pay for your mistake. Here's a case where the driver made a mistake and then eliminated any impact of that mistake by cutting the next corner -- he still lost a little ground -- but stayed close enough with the cut to stay in draft and by the next corner was right back on the bumper of the car he was following.

Most importantly, you won't be running 26s in the race because you'll be dealing with traffic, will have a draft, etc. Hot laps don't mean much when it comes to racing with other cars.

Yah, but if you run 26 and get pole for the race you are in a great spot at Monaco. Winning pole goes a long way to winning this race IMO. At minimum it increases your odds tremendously.

 

[LancerEvo7]

One thing I'd really like to see is the historic original version of the track without the chicane, at least the option with or without like Monza or LeMans...

Monaco's always had the chicane. It originally was just a fast left-right that could be taken nearly flat out.

 

[Diabolical_J]

Most importantly, you won't be running 26s in the race because you'll be dealing with traffic, will have a draft, etc. Hot laps don't mean much when it comes to racing with other cars.

More importantly, he won't be running 26s in the race because he was running 46-47s in practice

 

[BrandonW77]

Now that reminds me. I watched a replay from Monza and Chuk was on pole for the reverse grid race. He led clean through the first chicane, missed his brake point for the 2nd chicane and cut it badly, but then pulled over and let the entire field pass to pay for the mistake. That's a bit extreme don't you think? What do you guys think would be the correct thing to do in the case as described?

If it were me I'd have lifted to let the 2nd car gain my bumper again eliminating any benefit from my mistake and then kept going. Or maybe let the 2nd car pass me at the extreme. If I did it several times in a race I would expect to get a penalty even if I did let the cars re-catch, but on the first lap on cold tires I would think just slowing to eliminate the advantage would be suffice.

I agree with your assessment, letting the field by is a little extreme. If you felt you gained an unfair advantage, simply lifting to let the other car catch back up should be plenty. No need to take yourself out of contention, just don't gain an unfair advantage.

I have to say I saw one car (not to be named) miss his entry to the first part of a chicane while following and then cut the 2nd half in order to stay in the draft. I say that's very bad form. If you miss the first half of a chicane and go too deep then you should have to slow to make the 2nd half clean and thus pay for your mistake. Here's a case where the driver made a mistake and then eliminated any impact of that mistake by cutting the next corner -- he still lost a little ground -- but stayed close enough with the cut to stay in draft and by the next corner was right back on the bumper of the car he was following.

I'd bet there's a good chance that was me as I remember one or two instances like this. But in my case, it was more a matter of survival as I was completely out of control and was just trying to keep from going totally off the track. I had a very hard time getting through the chicanes cleanly at times, especially if I had any kind of a tow from being in a draft. If my braking or entry point was off by even a tiny margin the whole chicane would be blown no matter how hard I tried to save it. I think most of you guys have way more car control than I do, more times than not I was merely a passenger through the chicanes and had very little control over the outcome. This is why I didn't get specific about what was legal and what wasn't, I knew I'd be instantly disqualifying myself because I'm not able to be that precise.

 

[carracerptp]

Most importantly, you won't be running 26s in the race because you'll be dealing with traffic, will have a draft, etc. Hot laps don't mean much when it comes to racing with other cars.




Yes, that method is fine and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

The guy that gets the pole is sure to drive as hard as he/she can do get away from the field.

OK? That's exactly how it should be done! Anytime you cut to save time you should lift so you don't gain from your own mistake. 👍

Now that reminds me. I watched a replay from Monza and Chuk was on pole for the reverse grid race. He led clean through the first chicane, missed his brake point for the 2nd chicane and cut it badly, but then pulled over and let the entire field pass to pay for the mistake. That's a bit extreme don't you think? What do you guys think would be the correct thing to do in the case as described?

If it were me I'd have lifted to let the 2nd car gain my bumper again eliminating any benefit from my mistake and then kept going. Or maybe let the 2nd car pass me at the extreme. If I did it several times in a race I would expect to get a penalty even if I did let the cars re-catch, but on the first lap on cold tires I would think just slowing to eliminate the advantage would be suffice.

I have to say I saw one car (not to be named) miss his entry to the first part of a chicane while following and then cut the 2nd half in order to stay in the draft. I say that's very bad form. If you miss the first half of a chicane and go too deep then you should have to slow to make the 2nd half clean and thus pay for your mistake. Here's a case where the driver made a mistake and then eliminated any impact of that mistake by cutting the next corner -- he still lost a little ground -- but stayed close enough with the cut to stay in draft and by the next corner was right back on the bumper of the car he was following.




Yah, but if you run 26 and get pole for the race you are in a great spot at Monaco. Winning pole goes a long way to winning this race IMO. At minimum it increases your odds tremendously.

That is what I try to do (underlined) in a "race". If it was a practice race and I was following I will just keep going.

In the reverse grid race (don't remember the day), I saw a guy cut after he missed his brake point. I don't think he aimed for it but he just kept going.

More importantly, he won't be running 26s in the race because he was running 46-47s in practice

How deep in the 26s? and who?

 

[WRP001]

I'd bet there's a good chance that was me as I remember one or two instances like this.

I don't want to make any big deal out of it because it was only once that I saw it (I wasn't looking for it, just watching some replay and noticed it)... and I don't want my silence to incriminate you either so I'll just say it was NOT you Brandon.

 

[Naptown25rs]

I have to say I saw one car (not to be named) miss his entry to the first part of a chicane while following and then cut the 2nd half in order to stay in the draft. I say that's very bad form. If you miss the first half of a chicane and go too deep then you should have to slow to make the 2nd half clean and thus pay for your mistake. Here's a case where the driver made a mistake and then eliminated any impact of that mistake by cutting the next corner -- he still lost a little ground -- but stayed close enough with the cut to stay in draft and by the next corner was right back on the bumper of the car he was following.

I saw a few examples of this on the days that I raced, and I'm sure I was guilty of it once or twice myself... Can't remember an instance where the offender made any significant gain as a result of cutting other than maybe hanging onto the draft a little longer before utimately losing it anyway. Can't speak for any other the top 2 or 3 as I was no where near them when I finished.

 

[RDAardvark]

Hmm. Spent the million credits rebuilding the engine and strengthening the chassis. Best lap was 1:49.997! A million credits for half a second. Ouch!

 

[BrandonW77]

I don't want to make any big deal out of it because it was only once that I saw it (I wasn't looking for it, just watching some replay and noticed it)... and I don't want my silence to incriminate you either so I'll just say it was NOT you Brandon.

Well, I do know I had an instance almost exactly like that through the second chicane. Don't remember what race, but I lost traction and slid through the greencrete, popping out right behind the lead car and under control. It felt dirty when I did it but didn't have much choice, and I didn't "gain" anything from it except not ending up in the sand/ending my race.

I guess my point is, hopefully whoever you saw do it was simply trying to hang on for dear life and wasn't doing it to gain an advantage or negate a disadvantage. Maybe that was the case, maybe it wasn't....innocent until proven guilty. Now if it happened several laps in a row it would be a different story for sure. But if you watch the replay I'm sure every single one of us had a chicane that would have been considered "illegal" by the strict letter of the law. In the real world you're generally only penalized for this type of thing if you gain a blatant advantage or position and I try to look at things the same way.

Considering the blistering pace and congested field, I think we all did a great job at Monza (on average) and we managed to avoid any real nastiness in the first turn. That's all I really ask for, so I'm happy with the results. 👍

Hmm. Spent the million credits rebuilding the engine and strengthening the chassis. Best lap was 1:49.997! A million credits for half a second. Ouch!

Sounds like the real world!

 

[WRP001]

Hmm. Spent the million credits rebuilding the engine and strengthening the chassis. Best lap was 1:49.997! A million credits for half a second. Ouch!

Rebuild it again and see if you can get another half second. Rinse and repeat.

At that rate I'd empty my coffers!!! I'll bet you a lot of F1 teams spend a heck of a lot more dollars per tenth gained on the track for their R&D.

 

[BrandonW77]

I'll bet you a lot of F1 teams spend a heck of a lot more dollars per tenth gained on the track for their R&D.

A couple years ago, towards the end of the season and before the budget limits, McLaren spent millions and millions just to gain a second-and-a-half. So yeah, we're getting more and more realistic around here!

 

[carracerptp]

Rebuild it again and see if you can get another half second. Rinse and repeat.

So that's how all the aliens get so fast?
I'm going to stop practicing, just do B-SPEC and rebuild over and over and over....
Gonna do 1:00 flat laps 💡

 

[Johnnypenso]

Monaco's always had the chicane. It originally was just a fast left-right that could be taken nearly flat out.

Correct, it was much faster in the old days and it was more of a fast left/right as opposed to a heavy braking chicane. Would make for way more interesting racing there I think. Imagine how different the course would be if you came through the tunnel downhill, quick flick of the tail left/right and no 🤬 curbs to deal with and still carrying a lot of speed to the next left hander, turning it into a real corner. Awesome!!!

I watched a couple of people accidentally get 4 wheels up on the green in the chicanes both during the race and in replays. Probably did it myself once or twice. Saw a couple of guys do the same thing in qualifying as well for the WRS/ORCA event, mostly in the first corner. Yes technically it's an error and in the qualifying session one should slow down and negate the lap I agree. In a race, if you want to call a penalty on yourself I think that's ok but letting the whole field go by, while highly commendable, I don't think is really necessary. If you don't gain anything by it, either while following or leading, it's not a big deal to me. No one is habitual with it, nor does anyone do it on purpose so far as I can tell. Sometimes you get knocked into it in a crowd too.

Now if you watch a replay and see someone getting all 4 wheels on the right side of the chicane at Monaco for 3/4 of the laps that's different. Once or twice...no big deal...to me...

 

[dsgerbc]

I blame Chuk

P.S. I think he might've let the field pass since he didn't see everyone and didn't want to ruin a race for someone invisible to him. Which is completely understandable and commendable for anyone else not seeing complete field on the track.

 

[chukabilly]

I blame Chuk

P.S. I think he might've let the field pass since he didn't see everyone and didn't want ruin a race for someone invisible to him.

Everybody always blames the white guy!

That was Tuesday's race I think, so I saw everyone. Saturday I had problems seeing people, so I skipped the second race.

You are right about not wanting to ruin anyone's race, though. I was 2-3 seconds off the race pace, and couldn't really get back in line without being aggressive about it. If I had been more competitive with my lap times, I would have played it differently.

 

[TrackBound7]

I know at Monza I cut a couple of chicanes illegally during the race. The couple of times that I did that were due to issues with other cars (either getting pushed up a bit or trying to avoid someone that surprised me). I hope these aren't the "cuts" that are being discussed. I think the majority of the rest of my chicanes were clean. If I cut then I am extra pathetic because my laps still weren't close to the fast guys . Regarding our rules and policing of incidents, I have found this group to be very reliable and honest. I can't think of anyone that we have that would intentionally cheat in any way (except Brandon with his 3 screens . I would be willing to bet that we could run the Alfas without the no tuning part checked and everyone would stick to it. I have found this group to be one that seeks great competitive racing, but comradary over all else. I see time and time again, guys taking a hard earned 3rd rather than a questionable win. That speaks volumes to the leadership and membership of Team ORCA.

Sort of looking forward to Monaco this week. I never cared much for the track until running it on Sunday in the VCRC race. Just a very different animal from most tracks we have run in either the Capp or the Alfa.

 

[Diabolical_J]

I've finally figured it out, I finished a minute behind everyone else because everyone else was cutting. Oh wait, I probably had as many accidental cuts as anyone, and I finished so far behind because I couldn't stay on the track. At least there's no sand at Monaco

 

[Gravitron]

Oh my, that sand at Monza was horrible! I drove into each sandpit at least once in Sat's races, trying to find out if they were all the same depth. They are!

I also cut the 2nd chicane on purpose once, when I was far behind in last place, and that was the only way I could get a laptime close to the fast guys (2'08).