Anyone planning to drop GT5?

[Tenacious D]

Forza 4's gameplay just looks wrong. The sense of speed, how the car behave, the track design and the lighting all looks to be behind GT5 in my opinion.

Hm... I know taste is taste and all, but I finally bit on the ISR guys' overview of Forza 4, and I thought the videos were pretty nifty. Well, specifically watching a brief clip of some 170hp or so cars featuring a Mini, which looked really good. The roaring power monsters like the LeMans prototypes I'd have to check out myself, and I'll be getting around to that eventually.

The shadows are still glitchy in GT5, but much better, and it's possible the Spec II update will fix that. The Standards look better too, wii! But T10 did a great job loading up the backgrounds with detail in F4, and the shading work looks way better. This should finally be a very pretty Forza all around.

And as for Autovista, I just don't feel the love. It looks like they forgot light source shaders on the interiors. Everything looks fake and plastic. There is no real darkness, as if it's in a barely lit area and the camera has color correct night vision. Besides, I'm not buying Kinect. And T10's modeling would be fine if they'd just spend the money on a proper quality assurance group. I can't believe how buggy all the Forza games have been so far. Of course, it is a Microsoft product...

(whatsizname) Gangi and Shaun Cole essentially said the physics and feel is pretty much old school Forza but nicely tweaked, which is what I expected, and is fine, as long as the driver views work for me. Not a cockpit guy, never found a view which was realistic in any game, so I stick to whatever passes for a roof view or chase. Yeah, I prefer GT or PC sim physics, but Forza 4 looks promising, especially with amar and Scaff's endorsements. Now, if I can create 200 or more decals and not have the file system grind on me, I'll happily play the thing through to its completion, which unfortunately didn't happen with F3.

One more thing: the new board format won't fit to screen anymore.

 

[another_jakhole]

http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/csm1980/Gran Turismo 5/Ahrweiler-Winter_1.jpg
https://www.gtplanet.net/50-stunning-gt5-photomode-interior-screenshots-how-to-take-your-own/
Let me rephrase what I said earlier, "I'd rather have over 200 Premiums than 25 Autovista Mode cars and the undriveable Halo Warthog in Autovista."

No, it doesn't...

Which part? You weren't specific enough.

So what is the cause of the inaccurate tracks and inaccurate car models in GT5?

Besides Cote d'Azur and what car models? I know some, but I want to know so I can know in the future.

GT5 Premiums aren't all one quality tier either.

That can't really be measured.

And as for Autovista, I just don't feel the love.

Did you hear there's only 25 of them?

http://jalopnik.com/5808738/how-forza-motorsport-4-will-change-car-culture-forever

They left that part out about them.

Graphics (Polygon count size does matter!): For starters, Turn 10's re-rendered every single vehicle, ripping the graphics engine down and building it back up. And the results are simply staggering. Polygons per car are up from Forza 3's 400,000 to over one million polygons per car in Forza 4. Turn 10's added real-light changes like blooming and lens flares help make the cars look like they're really in the environment. Forza 4 is achieving in real-time at 60 frames per second what was once something Pixar needed weeks to render. Just take a look through the gorgeous gameplay shots in the gallery to the left to see what I mean. It's beautiful.

If every single vehicle has 1 million polygons, how many do the Autovista models have?
Oh yea. So then how many polygons do the NON-Autovista models have?

 

[slipp3h]

I pre-ordered Forza 4 as the car list was much more to my liking than what I got in GT5. Also, the sounds are a very important aspect for me, and GT5 was a major let down in that department, while the cursory videos I've seen of F4 have blown me away.

I very much enjoy the feel of driving in GT5 with my fanatec wheel. I'd say I'd continue to play both games, but today it appears my GT5 save file might be corrupted... doesn't leave much of a decision.

 

[Spagetti69]

Did you hear there's only 25 of them?

I did.

Did you hear the 25 have over 10 hours of content.
That's more than some full games.

Good innit.

 

[another_jakhole]

I pre-ordered Forza 4 as the car list was much more to my liking than what I got in GT5. Also, the sounds are a very important aspect for me, and GT5 was a major let down in that department, while the cursory videos I've seen of F4 have blown me away.

I very much enjoy the feel of driving in GT5 with my fanatec wheel. I'd say I'd continue to play both games, but today it appears my GT5 save file might be corrupted... doesn't leave much of a decision.

The car selection is definitely the best. I just prefer GT5's random car selection. Most of the time, not so random though. It hurts to know Forza has the better exotic car list.

I did.

Did you hear the 25 have over 10 hours of content.
That's more than some full games.

Good innit.

Yea, I know!

 

[Akira AC]

I did.

Did you hear the 25 have over 10 hours of content.
That's more than some full games.

Good innit.

Which consists in 2 minutes of Clarkson, and 2 hours of floating the camera around.

I wonder if MW2 floats the camera without dialogues, sounds and under 5 or 6 environments for over 10 hours of gameplay.

 

[Spagetti69]

Which consists in 2 minutes of Clarkson, and 2 hours of floating the camera around.

I wonder if MW2 floats the camera around for over 10 hours of gameplay.

That's 2 hours and 10 minutes.

Syntax error. Goto 10 print " confused ".

Run.

 

[Akira AC]

That's 2 hours and 10 minutes.

Syntax error. Goto 10 print " confused ".

Run.

*Reads*

"Confused" is confused, which is in itself confusing.

*Runs*

 

[CSLACR]

The car selection is definitely the best. I just prefer GT5's random car selection. Most of the time, not so random though. It hurts to know Forza has the better exotic car list.

Did you stop to think if you stopped blindly hating FM4 and played it (if possible) you might not feel so much of that pain...

Besides Cote d'Azur and what car models? I know some, but I want to know so I can know in the future.

I think the model car replica's might be a good place to start. 'Twas front page news a while back.
But a full list of car errors would be enormous.

 

[vandaliser]

I didnt realise Forza had lemans too. Is that 24 hr Lemans? Because it's hilarious if it's 24hrs in bright sunlight LMAO.

Oh by the way Tornado, find me a premium car in GT that looks incorrect compared to the Ferraris in Forza.

 

[Spagetti69]

Did you stop to think if you stopped blindly hating FM4 and played it (if possible) you might not feel so much of that pain...

Agreed. Not bashing anyone here but if you can only play one because of console constraints that's a shame.

Owners of both can enjoy both. No need to hate.

 

[CSLACR]

I didnt realise Forza had lemans too. Is that 24 hr Lemans? Because it's hilarious if it's 24hrs in bright sunlight LMAO.

Oh by the way Tornado, find me a premium car in GT that looks incorrect compared to the Ferraris in Forza.

Maybe I missed the incorrect Ferrari's in FM4.

I'm sure you didn't scoff at GT4 though. I'm also sure you didn't scoff at GT2 for not having weather, right?
NFS had weather back in '99.

Ironic GT would show up 11 years late to the party and people will use it like it's something brand new though... That seems to be the case for everything GT related though, it only "counts" when it's finally in GT.

I'm not about to defend FM not having night or weather, but I also don't think it's necessary for a good game, so just as I didn't criticize GT2, 3, 4, or 5P for not having it, I won't be lined up to criticize FM4 for not having it, fair is fair, after all.

 

[Tenacious D]

Which consists in 2 minutes of Clarkson, and 2 hours of floating the camera around.

I was going to say, who could sit through TEN HOURS of Jeremy Claxon blathering what he considers brilliance while wandering around a car with so many polygons it can't go anywhere? Besides, the cars only look good from outside. Open the doors and hatches and you enter a strange plastic universe with missing shadows.

With those 10 hours, I'd much rather be racing, earning cars, credits and XP, opening up races, saving replays, snapping pics, making and painting race cars and having a blast FINALLY listening to proper wheel screeches again. Sure, it's a nice feature for when you're cooling down and don't really want to quit and go to bed, but that's it for me.

Owners of both can enjoy both. No need to hate.

Well, this is the forum for "that first game," after all, and if you went to the Forza forums and mentioned GT5, it's quite a bit worse what erupts in your browser window. And at least in the past, sometimes from mods! Ex-Community Manager Che Chu was quite the troll back in the day.

 

[Spagetti69]

I was going to say, who could sit through TEN HOURS of Jeremy Claxon blathering what he considers brilliance while wandering around a car with so many polygons it can't go anywhere? Besides, the cars only look good from outside. Open the doors and hatches and you enter a strange plastic universe with missing shadows.

With those 10 hours, I'd much rather be racing, earning cars, credits and XP, opening up races, saving replays, snapping pics, making and painting race cars and having a blast FINALLY listening to proper wheel screeches again. Sure, it's a nice feature for when you're cooling down and don't really want to quit and go to bed, but that's it for me.

It's not core gameplay so can be totally avoided if someone wants to. Its not in your face or anything.

I read most of your posts, so Clarkson's speech won't effect me at all.

8^)

 

[superb16]

Oh and I just looked around at some Forza 4 screens and quickly realized that many cars are still the same unimproved Forza 2 models. I wonder how many cars that are on par with GT5's premiums. I'd guess around 100 - 150 tops.

I really don't understand how people only want to use 20% of the cars in GT when making comparisons to FM4. Forza looks far better than 80% of GT.

 

[Ya Pops]

Maybe I missed the incorrect Ferrari's in FM4.

I dunno about FM4, but in FM3 I remember trying to put our team livery on a 330 P4 and getting a little pissed off about it not aligning equally on both sides.

BUT... It's not a game breaker and only people like vandaliser use things like that to make their over the top opinions seem valid.

Personally, I'm not the hugest fan of the oversaturated look of FM3/4 or the fisheye lens in bumper cam, but will it stop me enjoying a great game? Did it stop me enjoying the last one? Nope. I'll leave that for our ridiculously pedantic, anal friends

Then again, I couldn't give a damn about stuff like premium vs standard either..

 

[Tenacious D]

I read most of your posts, so Clarkson's speech won't effect me at all.

8^)

And thank you for your support.

I really don't understand how people only want to use 20% of the cars in GT when making comparisons to FM4. Forza looks far better than 80% of GT.

Yeah, I know, Standards aren't on anyone's list as "best idea EVAR!" But I'll say it again, I'd rather have those cars and race them than they not be there. Most of them look great to many of us. I was watching a replay of a Standard a day ago, and couldn't believe it wasn't Premium. If Forza 4 had Forza 1 models in them, I'd race them too. But considering that 400 some odd people and a Hollywood graphic studio was helping build F4, at a darkly guarded cost I might add, it had better look amazing!

 

[Akira AC]

This whole GT5 wins over FM4 annoys me for two reasons:

1. I agree with most of the points present by FM haters.
2. FM haters seem(or are) massive irrational "enthusiasts".

And by association, this will make any post regarding FM as irrational, for non "enthusiasts".

The problem with this is exposition. People should be aware of the things that each games provides and doesn't provide, but is down to individual choice to determinate which game they will like the most and will gain the most out of it, I personally will not buy FM4 but for reasons that have nothing to do with GT5.

However resorting to the GT5 wins crap is something that should not be admissible, people should play both games before judging them, and that is critical for this sort of comparisons. GT5 have massive flaws regarding areas that FM does better like for example damage, car listing(not agree but seems to be the general consensus), framerate, customization, online(well FM2 and FM4 apparently) and general content(not all 500 cars on FM have premium quality, but there is at least 160 accounted that matches GT5 premium quality, not only autovista models).

My point with this is that people will not take seriously any post regarding FM flaws when the resort to stuff like this:

I didnt realise Forza had lemans too. Is that 24 hr Lemans? Because it's hilarious if it's 24hrs in bright sunlight LMAO.

With that, it really annoys me that people who agree with me is also the people who uses that kind of responses, I tent to don't use that response because I know that there is event worst stuff to be pointed about GT5( and I'm speaking about the B-spec crap, along with plenty of other things).

 

[Tenacious D]

I have nothing but good things to say about my friend's post above (akira's).

 

[Spagetti69]

There's idiots on both sides of the camp that make me cringe on times.

Not sure if anyone's seen the GT fan on you tube talking rubbish.

Personally I found him funny but the comments on the video were mostly negative from Forza and GT fans.

Stupidity is not exclusive to either side.

 

[FyreandIce]

Forza cannot even get pitstops right.

No one would argue that FM has even mildly decent pit stops but are you really going to sit there and say you're impressed when your car gets filled up through the tail light?

The more i see things about forza, the more i realise the only thing going for it is sounds and sounds alone. And even that gets beat if you use a surround system with Gran Turismo

Both games through an identical sound system = Forza being the clear victor.

All a better sound system does for GT is make the blender noises clearer:tup:

Forza 4's gameplay just looks wrong. The sense of speed, how the car behave, the track design and the lighting all looks to be behind GT5 in my opinion. Oh and I just looked around at some Forza 4 screens and quickly realized that many cars are still the same unimproved Forza 2 models. I wonder how many cars that are on par with GT5's premiums. I'd guess around 100 - 150 tops.

Try actually playing the game instead of watching a horrible youtube video. Huge difference. Even direct captured videos look nothing like the actual game.

LOL. It's simple things like these that show the gulf in class between both Developers

Simple things like 80% of one games car list being directly ported from a previous generation of consoles?

And as for Autovista, I just don't feel the love. It looks like they forgot light source shaders on the interiors. Everything looks fake and plastic. There is no real darkness, as if it's in a barely lit area and the camera has color correct night vision. Besides, I'm not buying Kinect. And T10's modeling would be fine if they'd just spend the money on a proper quality assurance group. I can't believe how buggy all the Forza games have been so far. Of course, it is a Microsoft product...

The lighting is accurate for the studio environment Autovista is presented in.

I didnt realise Forza had lemans too. Is that 24 hr Lemans? Because it's hilarious if it's 24hrs in bright sunlight LMAO.

FM doesn't have 24h races and I'd prefer solid 60fps over the completely inconsistent frame rate GT has and no, it isn't because of some imagined lack of power from the 360 or T10 being bad devs. If anything, the fact that GT cannot keep a constant 60fps just shows the opposite is more likely to be true.

Oh by the way Tornado, find me a premium car in GT that looks incorrect compared to the Ferraris in Forza.

Peered into the engine bay of an Audi R8 V10 recently? It's missing 1 litre and 2 cylinders.

 

[FyreandIce]

oops, double post.

 

[MM1000]

Nah, GT5 has some problems, but it just plain rocks to play. It's a real challenge, something I have always minded with Forza, which I admit is a great game.

It's just lacking that edge. I hope they fix it, because Polyphony needs the competition. But I already know that GT will probably be the much better game for me.

Forza has a lot of fun ideas. I'm not knocking the game. But I think there's a reason GT is so much more successful.

 

[MM1000]

"Both games through an identical sound system = Forza being the clear victor.

All a better sound system does for GT is make the blender noises clearer"

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

However you put it, Pit stops are disappointing in Forza.

In what sense? Do both games have a car pit in and change their tires and refuel? Is it because GT has an animated pit crew? Surely it's not that, as someone who is so vehemently opposed to liveries would see that those little robotic dudes sticking the fuel filler tip into the C-pillar don't add anything to the core gameplay experience, or whatever it was you've been on about in the past.

If every single vehicle has 1 million polygons, how many do the Autovista models have?
Oh yea. So then how many polygons do the NON-Autovista models have?

It's an annoying marketing tactic on both sides - GT5 touted car models of half a million polygons, but those only show up for Premiums, and only in Photo Travel (not even in replays).

"Both games through an identical sound system = Forza being the clear victor.

All a better sound system does for GT is make the blender noises clearer"

Absolutely ridiculous.

On average, when you're actually driving, in cockpit view, yep. GT has some stand-outs (Ford GT and Viper GTS sound evil with a nice surround system), but it has some awful notes too (Racing-Exhaust-equipped, well... pick a car, really). I haven't been able to watch a good replay with the FM4 demo yet to determine if they've made more of an effort to simulate Doppler effect, though, as that's one area GT is better, from a technical standpoint. T10 records much nicer sounds, but doesn't use them as many different ways as PD uses their generally worse sounds.

So, since I spend the majority of my sound-concerned time actually racing, FM4 works better for me. Watching replays, with cars that have engines that sound like their real counterparts? GT5. Diff'rent strokes.

I'll echo what Spag-man said earlier - if you have the ability to play both games, it's an utter shame if you don't. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and you're missing out if you intentionally limit yourself to one or the other. Of course, if you don't have the ability to play both, that's another story.

 

[ocalot2k5]

LOL. GTplanet. Everyone is in on the fun and its glorious.

 

[shurnster]

I would agree that the pitstops has some glitches in some cases but despite with GT5 flaws the pitstops looks good:

 

[Akira AC]

I'll echo what Spag-man said earlier - if you have the ability to play both games, it's an utter shame if you don't. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and you're missing out if you intentionally limit yourself to one or the other. Of course, if you don't have the ability to play both, that's another story.

I will agree with everything except for this, I have own both systems and I play a lot FM and GT on both both of them, and there are things that makes FM3 utterly boring, which is the same stuff that is being brought back to FM4.

With this I have to mention the Career mode and the game in general, for people who play just the demo and haven't play the full releases(FM2-FM3) it should be acknowledged some things like the lack of arcade mode options on FM3(just car and track, no difficulty or race settings), the huge chunks of grind that composes the career mode and the redundant use of the same cars on the same races in career mode.

These things are the sort of thing that take FM players out of the game, and the sort of things that really make the game boring, you can tune the cars and do plenty of stuff on them, but is rather repetitive when you have to race the same cars almost all the time. For the variety that FM provides there is very little variety on the events, the online modes are not similar to previous games like FM2 in which tournaments and hot lapping competitions were organized, the unlimited use of rewind(finally regulated on FM4) makes the game more arcadi-ish in the sense that people do not race carefully making the psychological pressure absent from the driving aspects of the game.

But the main problem with it is the driving assists which are still present, even for FM4, they not as aggressive but they stiff affect the driving characteristics of each car, for example the Zonda is not as aggressive when you apply full throttle after a corner, and that spoils the experience for hard core drivers (what makes it worst is the fact that FM2 did not had assist involved, and it actually punishes you for getting over the line with cars like for example the Corvette). These problems are simple, yet significant experience spoilers, just like the annoyances present GT5, these problems can be acknowledged by T10 but they are not attended or fixed, instead the resources are redirected to appeal more to the mainstream market, which is not a punishable thing but it is incorrect when such focus affects the experience for more experimented players.

To get back on topic I get rid of GT5 because of similar problems, the variety of events was there but the levelling out systems were atrocious, the limited mount of premium cars is always problematic and glitches that are unacceptable, the AI is plain static in the sense that its not aggressive or competitive (something that even NFS Hot pursuit does), B-spec is a massive waste of time, and globally the game is plagued graphical errors, the track editor is extremely limited and the damage model is a really bad joke.

Even with the announcement of spec II I don't think I'm getting back to GT5 either, because that update do not fix the broken career, because having 1000 cars with GTPSP cockpit is not the same as having 1000 premiums. I might get back to it if they announce Spa with 24 hours cycle and weather, but I know that is something that is not going to happen.

My point with this is that people should try before buy, and people should try before judge, is logical to assume that what you like is what many people like, but sometimes that is simply not the case, and I personally rather expend 60USD on MW3 than on FM4, because I know that I wont play FM4 that much, as many people seem to do when you check the online servers of FM3.

 

[Müle]

At this stage, there is absolutely nothing that will convince me to hop on the Forza bandwagon. Nothing, especially now with Spec 2.0.

If I had the money to buy an xbox, sure, I might get one, but it's just not worth it right now.

From what I've seen, GT5 looks to still be the king of the console sims, anyway, regardless of what a certain few people here will say.

 

[Samus]

"Both games through an identical sound system = Forza being the clear victor.

All a better sound system does for GT is make the blender noises clearer"

Absolutely ridiculous.

Care to expand that statement?